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[Shmunter]

Panajev is a game dev who's been posting here for 20 years. Back in the day he was an ace source of knowledge on the original xbox and the PS2. Calling him a fanboy LOL

Easier to trust Phil and idiot media repeating his words. It's an easy one to perpetrate too because PC's are 'scalable'. Too bad scalable doesn't need to be the case for a console - that's the difference. Shame.

 

[CrysisFreak]

Let's hope devs focus on PS5 and SerieX, ready to gimp the SerieS version to not compromise their vision those casuals can lick my balls anyway no offense.

 

[vdopey]

RT & Geometry
GPU has less CU's, less bandwidth, and a lower clockspeed than XSX's equivalent. RT performance is affected by all three and in and of itself is less resolution dependent than one might think (think secondary rays). Still sure, reducing resolution further frees other CU's.

Lower clockspeed also affects shared components such as L1/L2 cache bandwidth, ACE's for async compute and RB's (filtrate), geometry engine and primitive units (clipping, culling, triangle to pixel coverage rasterisation)

CPU & RAM
CPU is also clocked down by about 200 MHz. 3.6 GHz with SMT disabled and 3.4 GHz with SMT enabled (so less than PS5's "peak" with SMT enabled).

RAM only has 8 GB running at "full" speed (still about half of what you have on the XSX) and a lot less bandwidth is available for the remaining 2 GB (slower than Xbox One S's DDR3 main RAM).

Reference diagram about RDNA GPU's (40 CU's):

I wish I had seen this post earlier, excellent write up, dude you are a wealth of knowledge !

 

[FeiRR]

Single target optimisation Vs designed for scalability are intrinsically different approaches in how you deploy rendering resources.

Scalability primarily targets resolution and framerate, with less focus on other rendering innovations. Single target primarily focuses on maximising rendering features & complexity.

Recent proof in point, Nvidia marble demo. 3090 showing off gfx not at 8k/60, instead presenting 1440p/30 with unmatched scene quality only possible due to the specific target. Yes it's a demo, Nvidia doesn't make games - but games do use gfx.

A 4tf XsS vs 12tf XsX anchors development purely to a scalability approach.

That demo also has a fixed camera. If you were to move it freely, it wouldn't run so well. IQ is incredible but it won't translate into games looking like that, unless we're talking about an isometric view, like an RPG.

 

[Redlancet]

, heyremember when making games for the one and the x wasnt gonna impact next gen games? Phil told us that, Craig wants to have a word with you

 

[Shmunter]

That demo also has a fixed camera. If you were to move it freely, it wouldn't run so well. IQ is incredible but it won't translate into games looking like that, unless we're talking about an isometric view, like an RPG.

It's what the demo represents, not to be taken literally

 

[FeiRR]

Easier to trust Phil and idiot media repeating his words. It's an easy one to perpetrate too because PC's are 'scalable'. Too bad scalable doesn't need to be the case for a console - that's the difference. Shame.

PC has been proving for decades that scalability means huge performance hits. Same with Android vs Iphone. Same with Xbox One/Xbox One X, proofs are numerous. This doesn't stop Microsoft from lying and warriors from warring but, among serious people, we know that it's true.

 

[John Day]

It's been designed to target the same visual fidelity as the XSX but at a lower resolution. Where's the problem?

If MS have done their job right and allows devs to determine whether it's an XSS or XSX based on a simple flag, there should be no issues at all.

It sounds good in paper but something tells me it's more complicated than what their PR tells us. Games release buggy as it is today...

Hopefully i'm wrong, i want to be!

 

[quest]

There is a reason Sony went for a single baseline. Organisations like Sony and Xbox that focus on gaming tech consider all possibilities.

MS strategy is gaming for everyone, as demonstrated by xcloud, cross device support, etc. They are not motivated by ushering in a next gen high watermark. Indeed a high baseline limits their ambitions.

It is a shame this is obfuscated by MS and eaten up by the masses happy to repeat an untruth.

So damn Microsoft for trying to bring gaming to the filthy poor people lol and growing a market that shrunk by a 100 million consoles. Who did the cloud gaming first again? Who brought a second sku again first hint the sku rhymes with bro? You can get off the soapbox until we see the digital foundry show down of 3rd party games and the Microsoft versions suck because they started on S and scaled up. I know around these parts the Microsoft engineers who pulled off things like 360 BC are idiots and liars.

 

[Redlancet]

Not gonna argue with you anymore. You can say whatever nonsense you want.

Makes sense, he is destroying you with mínimal effort

 

[FranXico]

It's a bit more work to also test and optimize for it.

But I don't think it's a disaster either.

 

[Gaz]

Concern trolling: the thread



We see what you do

 

[Shmunter]

So damn Microsoft for trying to bring gaming to the filthy poor people lol and growing a market that shrunk by a 100 million consoles. Who did the cloud gaming first again? Who brought a second sku again first hint the sku rhymes with bro? You can get off the soapbox until we see the digital foundry show down of 3rd party games and the Microsoft versions suck because they started on S and scaled up. I know around these parts the Microsoft engineers who pulled off things like 360 BC are idiots and liars.

Advancing a sector shouldn't be conflated with social justice. Gaming is available and affordable in countless forms for all budgets. Ushering in new advancements being burdened by this is nothing more than a Microsoft talking point to excuse their desire for domination, it is neither true or a valid cause.

Pro was a step forward, not an anchor for a new gen, unrelated.

Your post missed the mark on all accounts.

 

[veterangamerUK]

Will this affect third party games on PS5?

 

[quest]

Will this affect third party games on PS5?

Less than PC gaming does and steam is not going away.

 

[tryDEATH]

Dude the difference between the ps5 and xsx is known they are completely different - underlying hardware the cpus are basically identical, the xsx gpu is not more feature rich, I wish you guys would just stop with this nonsense. They are both more than capable of pushing out 4K 60FPS and / or 4K 30FPS with limited ray tracing, Sony has already proven this with their 1st party games.

The SDK's used and the API's used are completely different, between Sony and MS. Sony uses its own SDK, Microsoft uses directx - the way they work are completely different, the way any game marks achievements / trophies and links into psn and xbl is also completely different - the controllers Sony's has far more features again the interaction is different.

This is known all third party publishers know they have 2 completely different beasts to build for and target and if it is also releasing on PC that again can be very different, for example on PC it might use Vulkan not directx, I'm not sure whether ms allows vulkan on the xsx I'm not sure if sony allows it (I doubt either do) - again does it work with steam or epic or their own publisher games store that will have completely different API interactions as well. Also generally speaking PC versions get released later, Rockstar is the perfect example they optimise for the consoles first and 6 months later they release to PC, or some will release on PC first and then later release on consoles.

In amongst all of this they now have to support 2 different profiles for xbox, they don't make anything extra for it, but have to optimise for 2 different hardware profiles - variation in ram, in bandwidth and in gpu strength the gpu in xss is 1/3 weaker in practically everything, the cpu runs slightly slower but that's nothing to worry about, its the gpu 20 cus at a lower frequency (the frequency reduction probably has a much bigger impact), the lower memory bandwidth, reduced mem size, so they have to optimise how they handle the data streaming, this will mean more time wasted for any xbox game - as I said right now I expect practically all game devs are middle fingering microsoft, more effort for next to no reward.

The GPU on the Series X has more features like VRS and ML so the only person that needs to stop with the nonsense is you, because you are spreading fud. Until Sony actually comes out and says that it has VRS or is utilizing ML, I don't want to hear what you guys assume they have, because they have had all this time to reveal information about the system, yet we are 2 months away from release and people like you are still spreading this bulls*t parity narrative.

And for them not getting anything for it is also shortsighted, because a $300 console is much more approachable then the a $500 console, which in turn means more consoles getting sold and more games being purchased.

Everyone bar Sony's 1st party developers and a hand full of other studios is still going to develop for current gen for the next 2 or 3 years anyway, you must be naive to believe CoD is going to abandon +150Mil user of current generation. It is nothing more than laziness from developers, because they got to optimize for one more console.

 

[vdopey]

The GPU on the Series X has more features like VRS and ML so the only person that needs to stop with the nonsense is you, because you are spreading fud. Until Sony actually comes out and says that it has VRS or is utilizing ML, I don't want to hear what you guys assume they have, because they have had all this time to reveal information about the system, yet we are 2 months away from release and people like you are still spreading this bulls*t parity narrative.

And for them not getting anything for it is also shortsighted, because a $300 console is much more approachable then the a $500 console, which in turn means more consoles getting sold and more games being purchased.

Everyone bar Sony's 1st party developers and a hand full of other studios is still going to develop for current gen for the next 2 or 3 years anyway, you must be naive to believe CoD is going to abandon +150Mil user of current generation. It is nothing more than laziness from developers, because they got to optimize for one more console.

Do you know what FUD means ?

 

[tryDEATH]

Do you know what FUD means ?

Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. You're not spreading Fear, but you sure as hell are trying to spread Uncertainty and Doubt over, which system is the more advanced, feature rich, and powerful. So you can facepalm that as much as you want.

 

[Redlancet]

Do you know what FUD means ?

microsoft invented it and its theking of fud,so yes

 

[Redlancet]

hahaha good lord,so these are your actual sources? good lord thats explains everything

 

[Stiflers Mom]

1) The issue is less the ease of down scaling, and far more the knowledge that original design will always include the ability to downscale. A lot of people want games that current gen and/or 4TF are literally incapable of. They aren't worried about the cake's frosting color or texture. They want a whole new cake.

2) I see a lot of comments about concern trolling. I think that misses the mark too. People are outright mad because they know their 3rd party PS5 and Series X games will be designed to run on 4 TF even after cross generation dies off.

What does '4 tf' mean to you?

 

[The Fartist]

That dude really likes turquoise.

 

[Marlenus]

The GPU more or less scales with the graphic options (less pixels, draw distance, worse shadows, etc.) but the memory bandwidth is less clear. While the image buffers will be smaller, everything else is the same. The models, assets, etc. all have to be moved around in memory and is the same on both S and X, so we have a bottleneck on the S. You might see 60fps on X and 30fps on S.

You won't. If it works at 60fps 4k on the X it will work at 60fps 1080p on the S.

Look at the 1650S (4.4Tflop Turing) at 1080p vs the 2080S (11.15Tflop Turing) at 4k.

This is how it will work on the consoles because it is how it already works on the PC. The issue with the S was if the CPU and IO was significantly different but since it is not there are going to be few if any issues for devs.

 

[vdopey]

Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. You're not spreading Fear, but you sure as hell are trying to spread Uncertainty and Doubt over, which system is the more advanced, feature rich, and powerful. So you can facepalm that as much as you want.

The GPU on the Series X has more features like VRS and ML so the only person that needs to stop with the nonsense is you, because you are spreading fud. Until Sony actually comes out and says that it has VRS or is utilizing ML

^^ That there is pure FUD, do you know for a fact Sony doesn't have those features ? Can you prove that the PS5 GPU doesn't have those feature ? Does the PS5 GPU have other features that make up for those features and / or have they used different nomenclature and / or implemented things in a different way, but which provides the same and/or better outcome ?

What did I say ?

underlying hardware the cpus are basically identical, the xsx gpu is not more feature rich, I wish you guys would just stop with this nonsense. They are both more than capable of pushing out 4K 60FPS and / or 4K 30FPS with limited ray tracing, Sony has already proven this with their 1st party games.

again all I can say is:

 

[mikefrails]

As a developer shouldn't the first priority be the consumer?

 

[Marlenus]

The minimum spec requires 8GB RAM on a PC + a GTX 780 (minimum 3GB VRAM at 288GB/s) . What makes you think that the 8 GB @ 224 GB/s + 2GB @ 56 GB/s ram on the Series S doesn't imply that at least some optimisation is needed?

The 780 does not have anywhere near as good colour compression as RDNA2. Besides the 2080S can only do 4k 30fps at highest settings but to do 30fps at 1080p can be done by a 4GB rx 570.

 

[tryDEATH]

^^ That there is pure FUD, do you know for a fact Sony doesn't have those features ? Can you prove that the PS5 GPU doesn't have those feature ? Does the PS5 GPU have other features that make up for those features and / or have they used different nomenclature and / or implemented things in a different way, but which provides the same and/or better outcome ?

What did I say ?



again all I can say is:

The burden of proof that PS5 has those features is on you to prove it, not on me and guess what you don't have any proof that it does. All your doing is assuming with out any factual information to back it up, which means you are just spreading bullsh*t.

 

[ethomaz]

Another concern trolling Sony fanboy dev.

Spoiler

It is pretty clear most if not all devs didn't like Series S as a developer viewpoint.

 

[vdopey]

The burden of proof that PS5 has those features is on you to prove it, not on me and guess what you don't have any proof that it does. All your doing is assuming with out any factual information to back it up, which means you are just spreading bullsh*t.

No its a statement you made, I didn't make any such statement, I didn't claim anything about any specific feature-set of the gpus, you did not me. I do not have to prove anything. I stated clearly that both are capable of rendering 4K 60FPS and 4K 30FPS with limited ray tracing and I can prove this statement entirely.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/SpiderManPS5?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

There you go proof ^^ 2 major titles for each platform that support 4K 60 FPS

Now please provide proof for your statement, you cant simply because neither of us know for definite either way, so when you claim for a fact that it doesn't support those features, then you are spreading FUD, do you understand ?

<facepalm.gif>

I just wanted to say its nothing personal, I really haven't intended to offend you and I hope you don't take this personally, but you also need to be careful about what you say and you need to logically think through what you are arguing about and also research and make sure what you are stating has any basis in fact. If I am wrong I will admit it in most cases, its the right thing to do. I will honestly tell you this if Sony were pulling out a PS5-s, with the same butchered spec as the xss I would probably not buy a ps5 altogether, I am serious about that.

 

[Lysandros]

The GPU on the Series X has more features like VRS and ML so the only person that needs to stop with the nonsense is you, because you are spreading fud. Until Sony actually comes out and says that it has VRS or is utilizing ML, I don't want to hear what you guys assume they have, because they have had all this time to reveal information about the system, yet we are 2 months away from release and people like you are still spreading this bulls*t parity narrative.

And for them not getting anything for it is also shortsighted, because a $300 console is much more approachable then the a $500 console, which in turn means more consoles getting sold and more games being purchased.

Everyone bar Sony's 1st party developers and a hand full of other studios is still going to develop for current gen for the next 2 or 3 years anyway, you must be naive to believe CoD is going to abandon +150Mil user of current generation. It is nothing more than laziness from developers, because they got to optimize for one more console.

As a side note, this 'more powerful' GPU has 20% lower rasterisation, pixel fillrate and cache bandwidth lacking advanced hardware 'features' like cache scrubbers and fully programmable geometry engine. ML has been confirmed by Cerny in the Wired interview, it's using lower precision calculations of the intersection engines, PS5 has intersection engines.

 

[tryDEATH]

As a side note, this 'more powerful' GPU has 20% lower rasterisation, pixel fillrate and cache bandwidth lacking advanced hardware 'features' like cache scrubbers and fully programmable geometry engine. ML has been confirmed by Cerny in the Wired interview, it's using lower precision calculations of the intersection engines, PS5 has intersection engines.

The more powerful consoles also has more that twice as many CU's to better utilize Ray Tracing and a GPU that can sustain its power, higher RAM bandwidth, and it also utilizes SFS. SX also has its own custom DX12U mesh shader engine.

As for the ML could you link me to Cerny's interview, I tried finding but wasn't successful.

 

[tryDEATH]

No its a statement you made, I didn't make any such statement, I didn't claim anything about any specific feature-set of the gpus, you did not me. I do not have to prove anything. I stated clearly that both are capable of rendering 4K 60FPS and 4K 30FPS with limited ray tracing and I can prove this statement entirely.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/SpiderManPS5?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

There you go proof ^^ 2 major titles for each platform that support 4K 60 FPS

Now please provide proof for your statement, you cant simply because neither of us know for definite either way, so when you claim for a fact that it doesn't support those features, then you are spreading FUD, do you understand ?

<facepalm.gif>

I said that the GPU in the Series X feature list is richer because it includes VRS and ML, you questioned my claim with out any proof. These are litterally you own words "the xsx gpu is not more feature rich "

 

[manfestival]

Xbox power king babyyyyyy
/s

 

[NullZ3r0]

That's right, Series S will only play the One S games in BC. One X enhanced games will not be executable on Series S.

Whatever runs on Series X will run in lower resolution on Series S. Whatever runs in BC on Series X will run on the Series S. This isn't hard, folks.

 

[Three]

Whatever runs on Series X will run in lower resolution on Series S. Whatever runs in BC on Series X will run on the Series S. This isn't hard, folks.

What he is saying is that it won't run the Xbox One X version of the game with 4k textures it will run the xbox One S version. What you're saying only proves that the naming is confusing even the enthusiast fans.

 

[AgentP]

Whatever runs on Series X will run in lower resolution on Series S. Whatever runs in BC on Series X will run on the Series S. This isn't hard, folks.

Because they have to. The question is how much effort and what effect will it have on the X?

 

[Astral Dog]

No developer but i would be worried too if i had to make XSX version, PS5 version, PC and then optimizing to look/run just as well on XSS sounds like more work without a magical lower resolution button

 

[Ascend]

Why are people making a big deal out of this? The Xbox One line-up had three consoles

Xbox One
Xbox One S
Xbox One X

The weaker two didn't stop the most powerful one from running at 4K or having higher framerates, better textures or graphics in general.
If developers want the easy way out, the can design their game on the XSS first and then port it to the XSX. Problem solved.

It's a lot harder to port a game that uses say the velocity architecture to PC, than to port it from the XSX to XSS or vice versa. What are we talking about here...?

 

[vdopey]

The more powerful consoles also has more that twice as many CU's to better utilize Ray Tracing and a GPU that can sustain its power, higher RAM bandwidth, and it also utilizes SFS. SX also has its own custom DX12U mesh shader engine.

As for the ML could you link me to Cerny's interview, I tried finding but wasn't successful.

52 CUs in xsx (correction I thought it was 56)
36 CUs in ps5

how is that more than twice ?

a GPU that can sustain its power ? what does this mean ?

Raytracing is tied to the cu's and to the frequency so :. its about 18% difference, someone did the calculations in another thread:

Microsoft Xbox Series X's AMD Architecture Deep Dive at Hot Chips 2020

Its funny,I just read through all pages and its you xbox guys starting the drama, then you guys cry wolf. Kinda sad, really What "you xbox guys", I just trying to moderate my own thread. Even those "xbox guys" should shut the fuck up about PS5 in this thread and don't bring XSX to the...

www.neogaf.com

What is SFS: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-glossary/ I mean they need a glossary for all of the bullshit marketing.

Sony has a better I/O Complex, that's just fact, whatever SFS actually does, Sony implemented 12 Channel ssd interface to provide fine grained data access from ssd and has cache scrubbers to only remove whats not being used from the gpu cache from what I understand, sfs definition provides practically no detail into what it actually is or does.

ML:

Exclusive: A Deeper Look at the PlayStation 5

Now that the name is official, we've got more details about Sony's next-gen console—from the haptics-packed controller to UI improvements.

www.wired.com

"More generally, we're seeing the GPU be able to power machine learning for all sorts of really interesting advancements in the gameplay and other tools."


Read your comment, its just full of Hyperbole, how old are you ? I get the feeling I am discussing something with some one that is very young / naive. I am gonna stop now, wasted too much on this.

 

[danielJackson]

The burden of proof that PS5 has those features is on you to prove it, not on me and guess what you don't have any proof that it does. All your doing is assuming with out any factual information to back it up, which means you are just spreading bullsh*t.

Are you serious?

YOU ARE ASSUMING that PS5 doesnt have those features, by claiming that xsex have more features.

And then you demand that others prove that PS5 have them, while you should know that it is impossible as full tech sheet havent been released yet.

So whom is assuming without any factual information to back it up?

If I would call you a moron, there would be factual information at least. But I wont.

Burden of proof is on you, when you claim that there is more features, on situation where info havent been released yet.

That is just purely stupid and have no logic

 

[danielJackson]

Why are people making a big deal out of this? The Xbox One line-up had three consoles

Xbox One
Xbox One S
Xbox One X

The weaker two didn't stop the most powerful one from running at 4K or having higher framerates, better textures or graphics in general.
If developers want the easy way out, the can design their game on the XSS first and then port it to the XSX. Problem solved.

It's a lot harder to port a game that uses say the velocity architecture to PC, than to port it from the XSX to XSS or vice versa. What are we talking about here...?

And how many games were using "100%" of one x or Pro, made to those without having to think slower systems? Zero.

It is really simple concept to understand, that slow + fast system = one of them Will suffer.

How cant you get it?

Slow system forces devs to target 4k+high fps on fast one. Or slow one is like witcher 3 on switch vs ps4, aka barely works

 

[tryDEATH]

56 CUs in xsx
36 CUs in ps5

how is that more than twice ?

a GPU that can sustain its power ? what does this mean ?

Raytracing is tied to the cu's and to the frequency so :. its about 18% difference, someone did the calculations in another thread:

Microsoft Xbox Series X's AMD Architecture Deep Dive at Hot Chips 2020

Its funny,I just read through all pages and its you xbox guys starting the drama, then you guys cry wolf. Kinda sad, really What "you xbox guys", I just trying to moderate my own thread. Even those "xbox guys" should shut the fuck up about PS5 in this thread and don't bring XSX to the...

www.neogaf.com

What is SFS: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-glossary/ I mean they need a glossary for all of the bullshit marketing.

Sony has a better I/O Complex, that's just fact, whatever SFS actually does, Sony implemented 12 Channel ssd interface to provide fine grained data access from ssd and has cache scrubbers to only remove whats not being used from the gpu cache from what I understand, sfs definition provides practically no detail into what it actually is or does.

ML:

Exclusive: A Deeper Look at the PlayStation 5

Now that the name is official, we've got more details about Sony's next-gen console—from the haptics-packed controller to UI improvements.

www.wired.com

"More generally, we're seeing the GPU be able to power machine learning for all sorts of really interesting advancements in the gameplay and other tools."


Read your comment, its just full of Hyperbole, how old are you ? I get the feeling I am discussing something with some one that is very young / naive. I am gonna stop now, wasted too much on this.

Got the CU's confused you are right its not twice as many, point still stand its better at Ray Tracing. Sustain power means that it isn't variable frequency like in the PS5 that can't maintain peak performance indefinitely be it the CPU or GPU.

But you are again trying to derailing the conversation away from the GPU and your initial statement that the "the xsx gpu is not more feature rich". The only one naive here is you, you made a statement that is false and have since then tried to argue around your statement bringing up 4K60FPS and SSD, neither topics I even remotely engaged with you about.

Also that statement about ML is from Laura Miele, chief studio officer for EA so PS5 probably has some sort of ML really interested to hear from Cerny himself what they are doing in that space, because it could play a huge role for next generation.

 

[tryDEATH]

Are you serious?

YOU ARE ASSUMING that PS5 doesnt have those features, by claiming that xsex have more features.

And then you demand that others prove that PS5 have them, while you should know that it is impossible as full tech sheet havent been released yet.

So whom is assuming without any factual information to back it up?

If I would call you a moron, there would be factual information at least. But I wont.

Burden of proof is on you, when you claim that there is more features, on situation where info havent been released yet.

That is just purely stupid and have no logic

Learn how the Burden of Proof concept works. If I have something and you claim that you have it too you have to provide the proof. Its very simple, but based on you comment it clearly isn't for you.

 

[vdopey]

Got the CU's confused you are right its not twice as many, point still stand its better at Ray Tracing. Sustain power means that it isn't variable frequency like in the PS5 that can't maintain peak performance indefinitely be it the CPU or GPU.

But you are again trying to derailing the conversation away from the GPU and your initial statement that the "the xsx gpu is not more feature rich". The only one naive here is you, you made a statement that is false and have since then tried to argue around your statement bringing up 4K60FPS and SSD, neither topics I even remotely engaged with you about.

Also that statement about ML is from Laura Miele, chief studio officer for EA so PS5 probably has some sort of ML really interested to hear from Cerny himself what they are doing in that space, because it could play a huge role for next generation.

ok lets take this from the start you stated and I quote:

The Series X GPU that is more powerful and feature rich than the PS5, the more powerful CPU in the Series X, the differentiating RAM set ups,

I stated:

the xsx gpu is not more feature rich, I wish you guys would just stop with this nonsense. They are both more than capable of pushing out 4K 60FPS and / or 4K 30FPS with limited ray tracing, Sony has already proven this with their 1st party games.

then you said:

The GPU on the Series X has more features like VRS and ML so the only person that needs to stop with the nonsense is you, because you are spreading fud. Until Sony actually comes out and says that it has VRS or is utilizing ML

so according to you more feature rich == inclusion of ML && VRS

Prove to me that PS5 doesnt support ML or VRS, the burden of proof is firmly with you here, prove your statement, in fact there has already been statements mentioning machine
learning while talking about the PS5 GPU, so you are already factually incorrect here.

Burden of proof (philosophy) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim especially when it challenges a perceived status quo.[1] This is also stated in Hitchens's razor, which declares that "what may be asserted without evidence, may be dismissed without evidence." Carl Sagan proposed a related criterion – "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" – which is known as the Sagan standard.[2]


You made the initial claim that the XSX gpu is more feature rich, then you defined feature rich as having VRS and ML, you made the inital claim the burdon of proof is on you, stop being an idiot. I have given you several outs and allowed you to save face, but you have decided to carry this on - You petulant child.

end of discussion.

 

[tryDEATH]

I did say "the xsx gpu is not more feature rich", according to you more feature rich == inclusion of ML && VRS

Prove to me that PS5 doesnt support ML or VRS, the burden of proof is firmly with you here, prove your statement, in fact there has already been statements mentioning machine learning while talking about the PS5 GPU, so you are already factually incorrect here.

end of discussion.

Just like with the other guy learn how the Burden of Proof concept works. If I have something and you claim that you have it too you have to provide the proof.

Have a lovely day.

 

[vdopey]

Just like with the other guy learn how the Burden of Proof concept works. If I have something and you claim that you have it too you have to provide the proof.

Have a lovely day.

that is not how it works at all, you don't even grasp this basic concept, you didn't understand what fud is, while blatantly spreading fud and you don't understand how burden of proof works, pfft.

 

[tryDEATH]

that is not how it works at all, you don't even grasp this basic concept, you didn't understand what fud is, while blatantly spreading fud and you don't understand how burden of proof works, pfft.

LMFAO, you are a special kind of ignorant next time google some definitions.

Enjoy you day.

 

[geordiemp]

The more powerful consoles also has more that twice as many CU's to better utilize Ray Tracing and a GPU that can sustain its power, higher RAM bandwidth, and it also utilizes SFS. SX also has its own custom DX12U mesh shader engine.

As for the ML could you link me to Cerny's interview, I tried finding but wasn't successful.

So why is it the game we saw halo on XSX so far look terrible, not even native 4K and no ray tracing ?

Why is it ps5 games looked nicer and had ray tracing at 4 K ?

Why is it PC RDNA2 has shader arrays of 10 CU (lastest leaks)

Ps5 has shader arrays of 10 CU

XSX has shader arrays of 14 CU, to keep 4 shader arrays which is needed for 4 instances of running as a server maybe ?

Do you think the L1 cache of XSX will have a higher bandwidth and size to feed those 14 CU ? Hotchips MS gloosed over L1 cahe in GPU, do you know why ? Lots of cU is nice, you have to feed them fast and efficiently to get the full benefit.

Do you think the L1 to CU bandwidth, 4 of them in ps5 and XSX, is higher on XSX at 20 % less clock ?

At the end of the day, proof is in the pudding, how games run. Do you see any XSX advantages so far ? We dont.

 

[tryDEATH]

So why is it the game we saw halo on XSX so far look terrible, not even native 4K and no ray tracing ?

Why is it ps5 games looked nicer and had ray tracing at 4 K ?

Why is it PC RDNA2 has shader arrays of 10 CU (lastest leaks)

Ps5 has shader arrays of 10 CU

XSX has shader arrays of 14 CU, to keep 4 shader arrays which is needed for 4 instances of running as a server maybe ?

Do you think the L1 cache of XSX will have a higher bandwidth and size to feed those 14 CU ? Hotchips MS gloosed over L1 cahe in GPU, do you know why ? Lots of cU is nice, you have to feed them fast and efficiently to get the full benefit.

Do you think the L1 to CU bandwidth, 4 of them in ps5 and XSX, is higher on XSX at 20 % less clock ?

At the end of the day, proof is in the pudding, how games run. Do you see any XSX advantages so far ? We dont.

I can't claim to know the answers, because I nor anyone that isn't directly involved knows the answer 100%. What we do know is the spec sheet and features, which were presented by each company and that is the best point from which we can get an idea of the devices capabilities.

We don't see any advantages right now, because nothing is out yet, but I am looking forward to AC:V to see if there are any advantages and how they are being utilized between those system.

 

[Nowcry]

So why is it the game we saw halo on XSX so far look terrible, not even native 4K and no ray tracing ?

Why is it ps5 games looked nicer and had ray tracing at 4 K ?

Why is it PC RDNA2 has shader arrays of 10 CU (lastest leaks)

Ps5 has shader arrays of 10 CU

XSX has shader arrays of 14 CU, to keep 4 shader arrays which is needed for 4 instances of running as a server maybe ?

Do you think the L1 cache of XSX will have a higher bandwidth and size to feed those 14 CU ? Hotchips MS gloosed over L1 cahe in GPU, do you know why ? Lots of cU is nice, you have to feed them fast and efficiently to get the full benefit.

Do you think the L1 to CU bandwidth, 4 of them in ps5 and XSX, is higher on XSX at 20 % less clock ?

At the end of the day, proof is in the pudding, how games run. Do you see any XSX advantages so far ? We dont.

And I add something else in case someone has more information.


Because XSS takes 53 seconds to load when it is assumed with the same XVA and the same 5 GB / s?

Being a video from 2 days ago, why does XSX take 12 seconds to load? Even if the game was not compressed yet, shouldn't it take 3-5 seconds?

If XVA is not working as of today, I would not be so sure of having graphical improvements in SX vs PS5. Since a large I / O improves GDDR utilization tremendously.

Why XVA is not active?? someone Know it?