Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
I find that hard to believe when most north Koreans are starving
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What It's Like To Use North Korea's Internet
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I find that hard to believe when most north Koreans are starving
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Crossing the border? Bribing the North Korean guards is easy, and there is a forest on the other side I think. You just have to avoid the Chinese guards. You have to cross the river when its frozen in the winter though.
For elites, they are allowed to travel between North Korea and China on business. If they think of defecting then their families in North Korea will be sent to labour camps.
John Kowalski
Banned
Bad things aside, what a fucking strange country NK is. Continuously on everyone's mind, and at the same time so permanently impermeable. I don't think we could replicate it if we tried.
That would be the propoganda for the outsiders that was mentioned. If outsiders think that people are starving, they'll supply food and money to help, which can then go straight to the government.
Was just talking about the map in general.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
But people are starving, according to defector reports. Nowadays its a bit less because there now exists a private market for food, but really all it takes is a drought and starvation will sink in again.
terrisus
Member
Sure, much of it...
But this is a thread about North Korea.
Hence why it was relevant here.
Yes; mostly those who have in some way angered the government. Their government is treated as the seat of a god, so angering the government takes on a deeper meaning for the citizens. It's a form of population control and punishment that ensures those being mistreated feel that the punishment is somewhat appropriate or understandable. It's a terribly efficient system.
My point is that the starvation is a little overblown for our sake, so that we will feel pity and give the government aid; and, it's used as a punishment for those that have "wronged" the government. If we were to bust in and liberate the country, we would be shocked by the severe cases of Stockholm Syndrome.
perfectchaos007
Member
When the wind is blowing north from Seoul, Someone should let go of hundreds of balloons with 16GB's of American porn attached to the string. North Koreans don't have much, but no country should be deprived of pornography!
perfectchaos007
Member
Well, also relevant (except for maybe Africa):
Sooooooooooo Truuuuuuuuue. It looks like 90% of Canadians don't use the internet, but really 90% of Canada is unpopulated!!
Those are all plants to try to convince us that life there is rough.
Smelly Tramp
Member
terrisus
Member
I think I'm failing to make myself clear. I'm not claiming starvation is nonexistent; I'm making a point about the cause. Starving people are usually being punished. I think it's horrible for them, but their starvation is not a sign that North Korea is on the brink of collapse.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
So you think the people in North Korea that are starving are that way because they are being punished?
Most often, yes. The government is very harsh to citizens that don't follow their very strict rules, and punishments are cast in a wide swath. If, for instance, one doesn't turn in a neighbor for illegal activities, them one's own family could be harshly punished.
That's quite a statement. Can you back that up?
That said, it probably also isn't true that "most" people in North Korea are starving. I think "chronic malnutrition" was somewhere around 40% due to poor agricultural and economic conditions, so I get why people would loosely say most.
Pinko Marx
Banned
How is the rest of the world okay with letting a state like this exist?
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Wait, but I thought that even some people over there had accessed NeoGAF...
Shiieeet. Does this mean whoever checked out this webpage got punished?
Shiieeet. Does this mean whoever checked out this webpage got punished?
DirtyManos
Member
I don't think most of the world is "okay" with it, just there's a real lack of will/stomach to deal with it?
Besides the obvious nuclear issue, I'd think the two biggest issues would revolve around the aftermath:
1) The fallout of millions of refugees and who will take care of them, both in quality of life and immense psychological issues. Refugees who've escaped have talked about the years of therapy and adjustment they've needed, and now imagine that to an obscene degree.
2) Geopolitics, namely between the US and China. Neither side will take this straight on (at the likely cost of significant resources and human life) without a stake in the resulting land afterward. God knows the amount of diplomacy required to navigate that shitstorm.
The existence of this state is one of mankind's greatest shames.
Ban Puncher
Member
I'm sorry, but I don't have any online sources readily available for you to read. I work for an organization that has interactions with North Korean defectors, so what I am relating mostly comes from what I've learned from my time with my employer.
Shame. Another consequence of the secretive nature of NK: hard to have a debate with so little evidence at the ready.
EchoChamber
Member
Is possible to north Korea to have their own neogaf?.
Why?
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Its not true now, but it was true back in the 90s.
Photolysis
Banned
When you've got the likes of Russia and particularly China shielding them, there isn't much you can do. Does the rest of the Western world want to be in the same bed with them? No, but it's better than the alternative.
There's also the nuclear weapons issue. And the Dear Leader is quite possibly insane enough to use them. Certainly easy to imagine that smug egotistical little shit firing them off to take everyone with him.
Imagine the internet as a library. Now imagine NK Internet as that same library, but all the books have been replaced with one book on NK supremacy. That's NK Internet a few days ago. Now imagine that library, but with empty shelves and a BRB-sign at the librarian's desk. That's NK internet today.
I think the reasons are more prosaic. The nuclear issue is probably overblown - we're not aware of NK possessing decent delivery vehicles and the very nature of their nukes is sketchy at best.
The problem is mainly NK's conventional capabilities and Seoul's close proximity to the border. Any war would at the very least devastate Seoul, possibly kill hundreds of thousands of South Koreans and pretty much be guaranteed to plunge the country into an economy crisis that could even spill over onto the global market. And that's not even counting the cost of reunification and the possibility of millions of dead or displaced North Koreans.
Russia couldn't intervene if they wanted to, they don't have that level of power projection in the East. China wouldn't throw away their economic ascendency for NK's sake - keep in mind that the US is still China's largest trading partner.
Thriller
Member
I'd prefer Amsterdam for that..
well sure, but it's technically illegal in Amsterdam, it's just decriminalized for coffee shops.
North Korea will never be free without outside help.
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