What lessons do you want Sony to learn?

I don't mind SIE pursuing GAAS to some degree, or MP games in general, because truth is that has always been part of their DNA to some extent even as far back as PS1. Motor Toon GP, Wipeout, Gran Turismo...those were games with SP components but also MP features like link-play support.

Thing is, SIE's best "GAAS" games, aside Helldivers 2, are basically single-player games with online MP components, and I don't know why they moved away from that with the GAAS initiative. I mean just look at the many examples: GT series, SOCOM, Warhawk PS3, Motorstorm, MLB The Show, Uncharted 4,Twisted Metal Black, Ghosts of Tsushima....IMO those are among their best attempts in live service, they just happen to be tied to games with meaty single-player stories and campaigns.

I think that's the best way for SIE to pursue GAAS going forward...by actively NOT pursuing GAAS as the industry knows of it today. Focus back on the single-player games, but add online multiplayer modes to them that feel like natural extensions (basically, do what Nintendo does). You can make those modes as robust as you want, monetize them how you want...but at least they aren't resulting in less single-player content that way. It's a model most of the industry seemed to move away from at the start of last gen and especially once PUBG & Fortnite took off, but I think that was a mistake.

Ironically, integrating MP content into a SP experience gives both components a better chance to succeed in the market. If the SP side doesn't appeal to someone, they might get hooked on the MP, and if the MP falters, you still sold copies due to the SP. It also probably gives more breathing room for the MP content to get produced at a more sensible pace, rather than needing shittons of expensive content several seasons a year churned out by outsourced contractors, or needing predatory pricing schemes to sustain what would've been a MP-only experience.

Just, you know, also make sure the SP content is playable offline. And at some point ,if the official servers for the MP features go offline, have a way to let the community set up private servers so they can keep playing the MP stuff online. Not only would that do a lot towards goodwill, but there's also probably ways to monetize that to some degree, at least in terms of enabling & activating the feature.

What they really should have done is just make all these games have a single player campaign from the jump and just tack on a bare bones multiplayer mode like they used to. THEN If they noticed any of the multiplayer modes from any of the games really popping, they could spin that off into something bigger.

All the wasted asset creation and dialogue/cutscenes they made for Concord was such a fucking waste of money. Classic case cart-before-the-horse.

Yeah, they should have just refined what they did during the PS3 era, in that respect. SP-focused, with more robust MP modes & features that, if they wanted, could be expanded upon in terms of MTX, storefronts, etc.

Companies in general divorcing the MP from the SP has been leading to a lot of worst GAAS titles that have to wholly rely on their MP component. But when you look at a lot of the most successful (creatively and/or commercially) MP games historically, most of them have some type of SP component to them. Even titles like Smash Bros., Mario Kart and Destiny 1 have robust SP content in them alongside MP with online functionality (which could classify them as pseudo-live service or maybe "quasi" GAAS).
 
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I just want PS2 era Sony back. I want more chances taken. I want gamer centric catering back. I want better budget management and shorter development cycles. I want less pandering. I want first party titles that are more than just cinematic. Remember Legend of Legaia? Can you imagine that game being made by Sony today? Yeah, me neither.

Just PS2 era Sony, that's all I'd want out of em. Study that period Sony, figure out what made it special, and emulate it. I know the industry has changed and that we can't go back, but it's what I'd want :/.
 
Why do you guys get off on gating people out of games?
Not gating anyone out of anything exclusives give VALUE to your purchase of that platform.

Why buy a switch if Mario Zelda etc are coming to PC PS with more powerful hardware.

You want to play the next Sony game? Buy a PlayStation.
 
FIND A NEW STORY!

I'm tired of their AAA games all having the same (front)story.

MC's loved one dies (often in a gruesome way for shock value) and the rest of the game is the character healing/coping with the emotional damage.

Horizon - Rost, TLOU - Joel's daughter, TLOU2 - Joel, Days Gone - Deacon's wife, God of War - Krato's wife, Ghost of Yotei - MC's husband, Intergalactic - TBA (probably the bald girl's girlfriend/boyfriend/alienfriend).
This is why I prefer Xbox games. Say what you want, but other than days gone and spiderman, I'd take SOT and Grounded, state of decay, halo infinite over GOW, TLOU, Horizon, replayability and gameplay are a big one for me. Days gone and spider man are "story games", yeah, but they have good gameplay loops that make replaying them a joy. Really the same for games like RD2 and Witcher 3. I find most AAA sony games, lacking in gameplay.
 
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Not gating anyone out of anything exclusives give VALUE to your purchase of that platform.

Why buy a switch if Mario Zelda etc are coming to PC PS with more powerful hardware.

You want to play the next Sony game? Buy a PlayStation.
Why do you care if a PC player can play your "exclusive"? You can still play it just fine. It seems it makes you insecure, "why did I buy a PS5, if I coulda got a PC"? But I thought consoles were for "plug and play", so why does it matter? You have no interest in a PC, right? I don't want to play a sony game, on a ps5, or use a dualsense. I'd prefer to play on my PC with an Xbox controller.



You guys are stuck in 2003 and can't get out.
 
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Single player games. I don't even mind if they are movie games lol, just please stop with the GAAS nonsense.
I don't think Sony can make single player games like they used to. They have now become some corporatized feminine company that doesn't know what their audience wants.

They think Horizon is a bigger series than it actually is. They are way to hell bent on making easy games that hold your hand….

This is why I prefer Xbox games. Say what you want, but other than days gone and spiderman, I'd take SOT and Grounded, state of decay, halo infinite over GOW, TLOU, Horizon, replayability and gameplay are a big one for me. Days gone and spider man are "story games", yeah, but they have good gameplay loops that make replaying them a joy. Really the same for games like RD2 and Witcher 3. I find most AAA sony games, lacking in gameplay.
Funny thing is gameplay is a core part of what makes PvP and multiplayer games.

I played GOW (new version) and although the axe throwing was cool I was bored after a 2 hours and forced myself to beat it 3 years later.
 
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I don't think Sony can make single player games like they used to. They have now become some corporatized feminine company that doesn't know what their audience wants.

They think Horizon is a bigger series than it actually is. They are way to hell bent on making easy games that hold your hand….


Funny thing is gameplay is a core part of what makes PvP and multiplayer games.

I played GOW (new version) and although the axe throwing was cool I was bored after a 2 hours and forced myself to beat it 3 years later.
It's funny, people call the fortnite, 2k, cod players "normies" and they are sure, but it's kinda funny the games they play, are basically all gameplay, compared to new GOD, TLOU, Horizon, GOT. Hell, I remember when astrobot came out, and r/PS5 was bitching about how hard it was. It's kinda like when Bungie was making halo, and they said, if you don't have that "3 seconds of fun", nothing else matters. If the gameplay sucks, I don't care about the story. I'll watch a movie.
 
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Sony is just working through the changes in gaming and it's natural that some of the things they try aren't going to be successful. The large games definitely take more time and money to create than they used to, so instead of going all in on GaaS as a way to pay the bills while they build the blockbuster games they should take Astro Bot's success as an example and invest in more smaller games in the AA space. A way to make more money on first party games is to release more of them and in my opinion that's a good way to do it.
 
Get the fuck out of California.
Or at least restart a proper PlayStation E3 substitute - maybe even in London, Glasgow, Edinburgh or Oxford :) , if getting out of California - so you can course correct every 12months like you used to and release the tradeshow demos and demos for everything before game launches to keep everyone part of the conversation.
 
Stop pushing GAAS. Experiment with indie tier and AA tier games again.

Force your teams to make smaller games alongside bigger games. No more "sucker punch takes 5+ years to make one new game"; instead have them experiment with some smaller ideas with smaller teams internally.
 
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More single player and less GAAS trash. Look at your profits Sony you don't need to be greedy but ironically if a lot of those cancelled GAAS resources went into single player established IP's like a days gone 2 etc their profits would actually be higher.
 
The lesson is: when I say in my Twitter that they should fire Ryan and Hulst they fucking ask how far.
What kind of games should they make for you to be happy?
The games I concur with the general sentiment: the ones from the PS3 era. Rebuild or buy everything that was destroyed in Japan and the UK. Make SCE great again!
 
I was pretty firmly in the Playstation ecosystem until about 2016. I had a PS3, Vita, then a PS4 and was a PS Plus subscriber. At that time, I felt Sony was more customer friendly with their digital library stuff. I could buy an old PS1 digital title and play it on my PS3 or Vita. Some purchases got you the PS3, Vita, and PS4 versions. PS Plus felt like a value service, with some quality titles given away each month. When I first got a PS4, I assumed the emulators for PS1, PS2, PSP, PS Vita digital titles would eventually show up.

But once Sony figured out they were going to win the PS4/Xbox generation, I feel like they pulled back on customer value initiatives and started price gating everything. The emulators to allow you to play digital games you had already bought never came. They wanted you to rebuy everything for PS4 while decreasing the value and increasing the price of PS Plus. Eventually, I felt that if I needed to rebuy digital titles anyway might was well move over to PC.

So they lost me as a customer and my $300-400 of yearly game purchases to PC/Steam. Now that they have PC titles and you can sign in with your PSN id, they now have my data point. That customer who stopped buying from the PSN store 7-8 years ago has reappeared, and is buying their first party games on Steam. My advice to them is, if you want folks to stay in your ecosystem, make it feel like a good value proposition for them to do so.
 
Why do you care if a PC player can play your "exclusive"? You can still play it just fine. It seems it makes you insecure, "why did I buy a PS5, if I coulda got a PC"? But I thought consoles were for "plug and play", so why does it matter? You have no interest in a PC, right? I don't want to play a sony game, on a ps5, or use a dualsense. I'd prefer to play on my PC with an Xbox controller.



You guys are stuck in 2003 and can't get out.

It's ok Phil take your L and golden parachute and retire to your own island. Your ideas are complete SHIT
 
You want to play the next Sony game? Buy a PlayStation.

I did that the last two generations for Bloodborne and Demon's Souls Remake, but I don't see myself doing that again. Maybe if they get Miyazaki to make Bloodborne 2 for PS6 and it reviews at 95+ MC, maybe. But that's about the only path I can think of for them to get me to buy another console.

As a PC player, I'm just not getting much use out of these consoles when I buy them for the exclusives. There just aren't enough must have games to justify it, and they're making less and less of them as time goes on. It's just not worth it.

I'm happy to wait a year or two for the console exclusives to come to Steam if they want to keep doing that. I've bought most of them so far, even double-dipping on some games like TLOU and Days Gone.
 
I did that the last two generations for Bloodborne and Demon's Souls Remake, but I don't see myself doing that again. Maybe if they get Miyazaki to make Bloodborne 2 for PS6 and it reviews at 95+ MC, maybe. But that's about the only path I can think of for them to get me to buy another console.

As a PC player, I'm just not getting much use out of these consoles when I buy them for the exclusives. There just aren't enough must have games to justify it, and they're making less and less of them as time goes on. It's just not worth it.

I'm happy to wait a year or two for the console exclusives to come to Steam if they want to keep doing that. I've bought most of them so far, even double-dipping on some games like TLOU and Days Gone.
No, no, they need to go back to console only, so he feels special and "correct". For buying this plastic box over another box or a PC.
 
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Sony doesn't need to learn any lessons man, leave Sony alone.

Their game production is great, everyone loves woke/DEI/GaaS stuff and 1-2 games a year is a great amount. PS Plus is an excellent service getting games like Suicide Squad and Dragon Age Veilguard this year. I hope they do more remasters and remakes too.

Best gen ever.
 
So, no retort?
Your argument is Phil Spencer

my argument the ENTIRE HISTORY of home video games success.

How's Phil's argument working right now in the real world? Not well Xbox is becoming a 3rd party publisher and Xbox will stop making consoles
 
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I would like things

1) understand that if you don't have exclusives because all goes to PC there's nothing that assures you that gamers will have to pick up your system, and if you don't sell your system there's no royalties, no money from accessories, microtransacciónes, PSN+ subs etc.

2) More Japan and Asia, less California weirdos on charge.

3) AA and AA+ games to diversify game catalogue, and keep them exclusive of course, not everything has to be AAA. You can try a couple GAAS here and there, but don't devote nearly a dozen teams to that.
 
Nah. If they did it right with good upgrades it would increase their software sales. That's all. People still want consoles and Sony own the highend console space completely. There is no end of PlayStation now, there is only less software sold or more software sold. Every late release get low to mid sales because there is almost no hype left. 300 GOTY awards or whatever and TLOUP2 peaked at 30k ccu on Steam, down to 5k now. Everything is old news and not upgraded enough.

Maybe not the end, but the console would be redundant, sales would suffer somehow.

And each console user less is a user less that adds royalties, accessories, microtransactions, first party games, subscriptions of PSN +.... too much price for some PC sales of wich you have to pay 30% to Valve.

Last quarter Others Software has added only 150 million dollars, and that's adding PC ports and the income of Switch and Xbox with things like MLBA, Destiny and Lego Horizon. Too much risk (losing customers of PlayStation) for so tiny reward.
 
I love the idea of every major first party studio having two major teams and then one small incubation team that delivers Astro sized projects. Let these teams germinate the new ideas that flow into the larger projects.
 
How their arrogance let them going fucked up during the PS3 era, and they're doing fine now just because Microsoft is in a very weird spot right now since they're arrogant as ever
 
GAAS = out of business

Make good hardware with REAL exclusives no more Pc ports

Single player games. I don't even mind if they are movie games lol, just please stop with the GAAS nonsense.

Less GAAS, maybe focus on full fledged games worthy of modern day pricing. Games with a campaign, multiplayer, and more content.

Get the fuck out of California.

More tits, less GAAS

Fuck live service
Or fuck over your gaming community
Choose one
This isn't really rocket science. Most of us knew their new strategy would fail, like it failed for MS.
 
The quality of their new endeavors so far is really lacking, obviously also (not) shown by those canceled projects. Pursuing gaas generally makes sense, but Sony traditionally was not even great with many of their MP experiments. Also getting rid of SOE, ie Planetside, SW Galaxies, was possibly a bad idea in hindside. Their only succesfull gaas games so far GT and Helldivers were happening anyway, they are not new at all, just get now more regular updates. Last of Us fans would have welcomed Factions in the same limited scope again but for some reason it was either Gaas consuming the studio for an eternity or nothing at all... weird. So starting a new project better has some actual good idea behind it. There has to be a good gameplay loop at the core and interesting designed characters/lore as well. No idea how you decide that, but the responsible people this gen clearly greenlit turds, until they pulled the plug and either they must go or the people pitching ideas failed hard in forming envisioned games. Same management problem as WB and Square with their Gaas fantasies. I believe you can't actually plan Gaas to happen. You just make a game you think is good and if it is really good you can sell Addons/DLC for it. Like it always was and that is now labeled Gaas.
 
Why do you care if a PC player can play your "exclusive"? You can still play it just fine. It seems it makes you insecure, "why did I buy a PS5, if I coulda got a PC"? But I thought consoles were for "plug and play", so why does it matter? You have no interest in a PC, right? I don't want to play a sony game, on a ps5, or use a dualsense. I'd prefer to play on my PC with an Xbox controller.



You guys are stuck in 2003 and can't get out.

There are two types of people who wouldn't want Sony to put games on PC:

1) People who simply want to withhold joy from others who did not buy into the same ecosystem that they did; the tribe mentality

2) People who understand the video game business, enjoy Sony games, and hope/wish for Sony to continue to have the resources to make the games they like for a very, very long time, without being walled in by financial pressure because they made too many mistakes chasing short-term money like typical modern dipshit CEOs

This goes beyond personal preference; the only one of the three I would feel very strongly about making those mistakes is Nintendo. As for the others, sure I have my impartial opinion on what business strategy would be smarter, but since they don't, as the customer I enjoy the benefits of their slowly dissipating brand power (while shaking my head and laughing).
 
There are two types of people who wouldn't want Sony to put games on PC:

1) People who simply want to withhold joy from others who did not buy into the same ecosystem that they did; the tribe mentality

2) People who understand the video game business, enjoy Sony games, and hope/wish for Sony to continue to have the resources to make the games they like for a very, very long time, without being walled in by financial pressure because they made too many mistakes chasing short-term money like typical modern dipshit CEOs

This goes beyond personal preference; the only one of the three I would feel very strongly about making those mistakes is Nintendo. As for the others, sure I have my impartial opinion on what business strategy would be smarter, but since they don't, as the customer I enjoy the benefits of their slowly dissipating brand power (while shaking my head and laughing).


There's a third type

People that understand how a closed ecosystem works and that without exclusives it will fall in the mid to long term, and respect the Playstation legacy and what it has meant for the industry, and want to preserve it and not go the way of Xbox or Atari. People that know that the real money maker of a platform are the royalties and subscriptions and that for that you need to sell millions of machines, and for that you need that Mr Everyday Joe doesn't think he may get your games some time after release and buying a key in some obscure web page.
 
There's a third type

People that understand how a closed ecosystem works and that without exclusives it will fall in the mid to long term, and respect the Playstation legacy and what it has meant for the industry, and want to preserve it and not go the way of Xbox or Atari. People that know that the real money maker of a platform are the royalties and subscriptions and that for that you need to sell millions of machines, and for that you need that Mr Everyday Joe doesn't think he may get your games some time after release and buying a key in some obscure web page.

So...type 2 in more words?
 
They tried to move away from their core strengths and into a new segment without understanding the segment or what they needed to do to succeed in that segment.

Look at what Apple does when they break into new product territory - go slow, study the market, start small, build up your expertise, focus on what you are good at, see what the customers like and build from that. Sony did the opposite of that, declaring basically "we're a live service company now" and immediately investing half their resources into these games with no understanding of the market or what it takes to succeed. They also abandoned some of the multiplayer games they did have and were good (like Uncharted 4). I don't even think they have people on the payroll who were around with Warhawk and MAG and games like that and what they learned from it. So it's been a disaster.
 
Why do you care if a PC player can play your "exclusive"? You can still play it just fine. It seems it makes you insecure, "why did I buy a PS5, if I coulda got a PC"? But I thought consoles were for "plug and play", so why does it matter? You have no interest in a PC, right? I don't want to play a sony game, on a ps5, or use a dualsense. I'd prefer to play on my PC with an Xbox controller.



You guys are stuck in 2003 and can't get out.

And you are stuck in a non reasoning loop.

If your platform is redundant because it doesn't have exclusive games it will decay, it will have less resources to keep investing in new games and hardware, and a Windows opens to it ultimately closing shop.

And if it closes shop, there won't be a new iteration that plays your older games, your digital library is at risk, you name it.

If doing some Spencer-y moves "uh oh we are all gamers" did put Nintendo or Steam in danger I am pretty sure you would understand very well and firmly oppose it. But as it's PlayStation and you don't care about its "uh you ponies just want others without gamez" and the "you can still play it".
 
Hopefully they learn from the success of Astro Bot: Smaller games, more frequently.

Astro Bot also showcased that Sony has a plethora of dormant IPs that could use a new entry.

The gaming industry is going backwards in the sense that we have new tools like AI that make hard work a lot easier and quicker and instead of using that to make a healthy development cycle that pushes out a great game in 2-3 years, they are pushing for these beasts that take 6-8 years.

Is nice to have a big monster like GTA VI in your platform every once in a while. But smaller 15-20 hour games still have a reason to exist, they fill up your library, create the idea that there's tons to play (this is an illusion, because you could have 1 game that's worth 200 hours vs 5 games that are 15 hours each). However, the important ingredient missing in the sauce is Variety. A 200 hour game sounds nice, except if you start playing and immediately figure out you don't feel it… why care the game has 200 hours worth of content if you couldn't digest 5 hours?

More varied titles allows the customer to pick and choose which games to go after.

Hopefully they fire whatever idiot didn't greenlight a new Legend of the Dragoon in this post-Clair Obscure landscape.
 
-Get out of California ASAP and go back to Japan. PlayStation has not been the same since they moved their office to California which I predicted long ago.
-Get rid of all that GAAS/live service trash.
-Get actual, genuine exclusives again.
-More Japanese/Asian first party games. Look how Stellar Blade, AstroBot and Black Myth Wukong turned out.
-Bring back classic, dormant franchises.
-Create more lower budget, AA games. Not everything needs to be a $500 million AAA game that takes a decade to create.
 
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Port the games to Nintendo Switch & Xbox
Increase the price of PS+, DualSense, PSVR2 & PS5, PS Portal
day one release onto PC
Imo, that would destroy PlayStation. If the games are being ported to Switch and Xbox, why buy a PlayStation then? Sure, Microsoft are selling more games now once they went multiplatform, but their consoles sales are even more lackluster now which is saying something and unlike Microsoft, Sony actually needs Playstation console sales.
 
Lesson 1: when you make a console, people expect first party games.

Lesson 2: when you have first party games, people expect original games instead of cheap remasters.
 
Sony gets more money by releasing on pc.

Why does it hurt you?

Not neccesarily

It may get more money from first party games.

But, if that means for example selling 5 million less consoles you have 5 million gamers less to sell accessories, get a 30% cut on every game or microtransaction, 5 million people less who can subscribe to PS+, who buy your hardware, and 5 million people that may get your game in PC instead of Steam and you will have to give 30% to Valve... and that's if those gamers don't decide to go buy a key in one of those web pages that are clouded piracy.

Let's do some numbers OK?
SONY has made 150 million dollars on Others software this quarter after the official data. That not only PC but also MLBA on Xbox and Switch, Destiny 2 on Xbox and Lego Horizon on Switch. If each PS new user generates IDK 500 dollars for Sony between hardware, accessories, PS+, FP and third party games, then a mere drop of 300k consoles in a quarter would be worse that what you earn on porting your games.
 
If they could learn to respect their customers, and that contrary to what braindead cokehead execs think, greed is not good, i'll be a proud dad.
 
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What they really should have done is just make all these games have a single player campaign from the jump and just tack on a bare bones multiplayer mode like they used to. THEN If they noticed any of the multiplayer modes from any of the games really popping, they could spin that off into something bigger.

Ironically, the one time they did do that (Factions), they ended up canceling it.
 
Why do you care if a PC player can play your "exclusive"? You can still play it just fine. It seems it makes you insecure, "why did I buy a PS5, if I coulda got a PC"? But I thought consoles were for "plug and play", so why does it matter? You have no interest in a PC, right? I don't want to play a sony game, on a ps5, or use a dualsense. I'd prefer to play on my PC with an Xbox controller.



You guys are stuck in 2003 and can't get out.
You are looking at this from the POV of console warring which is stupid, and it has nothing to do with anything anyone has said.

As people have said, Sony is intentionally devaluing the one thing that makes them unique and keeps them in this business - the platform. It's why Apple and Google spend billions of dollars a year and give away their OS for free to customers every year, because the platform is the only thing that keeps them viable (the hardware is basically the same at this point). It's just a stupid thing because you are killing your long term viability for short term cash.

If a bunch of people decide not to get a PS6 because they will "wait for the PC port", then they just lost a huge chunk of their customer base, and then that PC port needs to compete with the 50,000 games that come out on Steam annually instead of being front and center because it's a Sony game on a Sony platform. This is not a good thing for Sony. It's also exactly how the Xbox platform disintegrated before our very eyes.

Ironically, the one time they did do that (Factions), they ended up canceling it.
no, Factions 2 was intentionally meant to be super huge and ambitious, not a multipllayer mode like the first one.
 
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