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[Badlucktroll]

i wonder what it would have been like if microsoft arrived a gen earlier, during the psone/n64/saturn era. the controller would look like this

 

[jroc74]

Since Sega is so similar to Nintendo and don't have 3 trillion dollars to fall back on....there wouldn't have been an acquisition spree.

Sega probably would still have full console exclusives.

Those wishing MS didn't release their games every where would like Sega. Maybe Sega also don't embrace PC gaming like MS has.

Interesting time line for sure tho.

 

[luxsol]

One thing I have to disagree with you on, though, is SEGA not charging for online play. They definitely did; if you remember, they did a $199 rebate with Dreamcast during 2000 where you basically got a year of SEGA.Net free with the rebate, as long as you bought the Dreamcast.

That was a promotion though. It's basically no different than getting a free iPhone by signing up for BoostMobile or a free PS3 for test driving the latest Jeep vehicle, or whoever still does these promos.

SEGA.net was basically just the official ISP for the Dreamcast, but you could use any ISP you wanted (aside from the free ones and AOL) to get online with your Dreamcast. No extra costs were involved to play online, just like anyone with a PC today.
There was no paywall.

The $199 rebate deal was just one of many service incentives that were popular back during the dot-com boom era. You could even get a Mac or PC computer for free back then just for agreeing for them to load it up with spyware.

 

[MandingoMcThickens]

What does Gaf think?
Was it possible for Sega to succeed?
Would Microsoft had entered the fray anyway despite there not being an obvious opening?
What would a modern Sega console/ecosystem look like?
How would PC gaming change as as a result?

Cool, fun questions

- My gut reaction to your thread title was being all in on more Dreamcast. For me, not to sound zesty, but that was honestly kind of a magical time.
- I think the PlayStation 2 made it impossible for Sega to succeed.
- I'm not sure if Microsoft would've entered the console business. I can see them still trying, but in this hypothetical with Sega being successful *and* PlayStation 2 still happening, I think the PS2 would've made it impossible for MS to succeed as well.
- I think Sega would've evolved the VMU idea and just integrated it into their controller with a more modernized screen (touch, decent resolution, color/backlit). I also think Sega would've been the first to come out with a digital only console.
- I don't really know enough about PC gaming to really comment on how it would've changed. I suppose PC-only people would consider getting the platform if they loved Sega's first party, but from the outside looking in PC people seem like they kinda... stay PC people. Like I almost always hear console -> PC, almost never the opposite.

 

[Spukc]

Even more shitty sonic games

 

[Ozzie666]

Offering a free online gaming services in the early '00s on mass market consoles, that was actually quality, was not easy.



If SEGA stayed as a platform holder, Sonic Heroes would've been better at launch same with Sonic '06 (which was literally halved in dev resources so they could get a Wii Sonic game out in 2006 as well).



Yep; SA1 & 2 definitely aren't perfect but they're a lot better than people give them credit for these days. And if you look at some of the code & features of SM64 you'd realize just how haphazard aspects of that game are, and how parts of its design are literally held up by duct tape.

Very fun duct tape, but duct tape all the same.



What made a lot of SEGA games in their console run great was that, they always had a strong pick-up-and-play mentality with mechanics that had a lot of depth without getting overinvolved in minutia obscurities and excessive micromanagement, while also generally having strong pacing. Even in very console-orientated games like Shining Force III (currently playing Scenario 2), Panzer Dragoon Saga, Sonic Adventure etc. you can see this, and it's likely influenced by their arcade pedigree.

So that, emphasis on high framerates, clean visuals with bright & poppy colors, high-energy soundtracks, and games that did well at not taking themselves too seriously or trying to make grand statements on issues gamers play games to typically get away from....I feel a lot of that either died or dropped off heavily once SEGA stopped making consoles. You still see it in some Nintendo games (ironically they also have a long arcade history although it's more subdued than SEGA's), and certain 3P games & franchises (i.e maybe some Capcom & Bandai-Namco games, various indies), but it's not a driving force in the industry anymore like it was when SEGA still made consoles.

And that's a sad reality, increasingly so when I see the general state of the industry these days just deteriorating on multiple fronts.



GTA3/Vice City/San Andreas & PS2 had just as much if not more an impact than Xbox & Halo, and even if Halo wasn't a thing (it would've been; they were originally making it for the Mac), games like Half-Life 2 would've still came and innovated FPS genre.

I think without Xbox, we wouldn't have seen the rise of Western PC devs shifting towards prioritizing console development with 360. But then, they would've just stuck to PC, MS would've focused on PC and maybe PC gaming wouldn't have gone through a dark age it almost died to if it weren't for Valve & Steam.



I think this is an interesting way of seeing MS's early effect on gaming; they basically took the controversial approach that worked with Windows & PC, and applied a form of that to console gaming. Even if they just got out of an antitrust lawsuit, console gaming was a smaller industry than computers & computer OSes, and not seen as a vital market either (i.e you didn't need a console for business, school & work).

So if regulatory eyes weren't really eying the console market too much during that time, it wouldn't have been hard for MS to take some of the Wintel strats and apply them to gaming. One thing I have to disagree with you on, though, is SEGA not charging for online play. They definitely did; if you remember, they did a $199 rebate with Dreamcast during 2000 where you basically got a year of SEGA.Net free with the rebate, as long as you bought the Dreamcast.

It was SEGA's way of a last gambit to drive sales ahead of PS2's American launch, but it didn't work.



Basically true. Although, considering the market at the time, the Master System was somewhat successful in Europe and Brazil. Same with Genesis/MegaDrive.

Though on that note, yeah, I think the leaked fiscal document definitely showed that Genesis's success in America might've been exaggerated. Retailers pumping the channel with tons of units for holiday shoppers and then forcing SOA to rebuy all unsold stock afterwards was devastating to the finances. That SEGA didn't even have consolidated accounting at the time just delayed any chance of fixing the problem sooner vs. later, which screwed them over in the end.

It actually makes me wonder if the Genesis ever outsold the SNES in sold-through numbers, in America, any point post-SNES's release. Basically, any year between 1992 and 1994, I wonder if SNES actually outsold Genesis in sold-through during the time. And, if the typical numbers we get about Genesis market share in those years are based on sold-in amounts (and maybe even only looking at the hardware sales)?

Certainly possible in hindsight. Still though, none of that diminishes the Genesis in my eyes; it's still my first game console ever and I love it dearly.

Soon as I wrote it, I said to my self what about the Master System and the UK primarily. That is probably the one bright spot for Sega. Great machine, under appreciated in North America. I loved mine to bits.

If we believe the theory that the Genesis and Sega paid it forward, had plenty of stock returned later, and unsold consoles sitting on shelves in warehouses (which counted towards 'sales' only to be returned and unsold). It does bring into question the sales numbers for the consoles in North America. They may have done really well in 91/92, then bleed returns and money starting in 1993 into 94/95. From what I recall even Sega of Japan was duped by Sega Usa and their creative accounting of sold/shipped/returned.

At the end of the day, Genesis was a great console with great games. I still prefer it over the SNES.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

i wonder what it would have been like if microsoft arrived a gen earlier, during the psone/n64/saturn era. the controller would look like this

the pro had a puffy dpad that tried to merge an analog stick + dpad

no one asked but there you go

 

[thatJohann]

We'd be up to Sega Dreamcast 5.

 

[Durin]

Sega made plenty of mistakes...but man I miss the energy around the Dreamcast. That console just had so many weird ass games (Seaman, Skies of Arcadia, Space Channel 5, Power Stone, etc.), the VMUs being these memory cards that also worked as little mini-game portables, and you still had oodles of great arcade ports. For console that had 1.5-2 years of life in the States, there was so much stuff on it I liked.

If Sega didn't fail in the hypothetical, that would mean that all the arcade stuff would've likely still lived on, and maybe arcadey sports games wouldn't be near dead on the vine outside of indies.

I don't think PC gaming would've changed much beyond Microsoft putting potentially more effort in it, and Sega already had a relationship with them on the Dreamcast, so I think the everything multi-plat present we live in would've happened regardless. Valve would've taken over regardless of Sega succeeding or Microsoft not putting out a console.

 

[Bungie]

Easy. Phantasy Star would have killed the Final Fantasy series & we'd currently have Phantasy Star 16 & Phantasy Star online 14.

 

[Bitstream]

the pro had a puffy dpad that tried to merge an analog stick + dpad

no one asked but there you go

hmm, the analog pad actually looks pretty sweet

 

[Randall365]

We would have got to Sony vs Nintendo vs PC much faster.

 

[bad guy]

PlayStation 1 would have had to complete against another "cool teenager" console, maybe wouldn't have tried it at all because of a perceived market saturation.

PC was (and still is imho) on another level games wise, and isn't influenced by consoles.

 

[Drell]

PlayStation 1 would have had to complete against another "cool teenager" console, maybe wouldn't have tried it at all because of a perceived market saturation.

5th gen wouldn't change in this what if scenario it starts at gen 6 if Microsoft didn'r join and Sega didn't leave.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Playstation probably would've killed Sega and we'd be in a similar situation as now.

 

[NT80]

The Shenmue series would've been completed.

 

[Hudo]

The Shenmue series would've been completed.

I do wonder if Yu Suzuki is a Trails in the Sky fan. Seems like Falcom are doing exactly what Yu Suzuki was planning, with this big-ass overarching story, spanning a multitude of games.

 

[Laptop1991]

PC would of still been 1st party like it was in the late 90's and there would of been less bad ports over the years, can't answer for Sega, but they would probably be still releasing Consoles, maybe.