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What you need to know about Mexico’s historic election

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-you-need-to-know-about-mexicos-historic-election

Mexico holds an historic election on Sunday: its biggest to date in terms of the sheer number of races.

Eighty-eight million registered voters — many of whom are fed up with corruption and inefficiency under the administration of current president Enrique Peña Nieto — will get the chance to change the face of Mexico’s government, and affect the course of U.S. relations, with major border and trade issues at stake.

Basically, people are calling for an end to crime, corruption, inequality in yet another country that folks ran into the ground.

And given all the trade war talk, it should be noted that Mexico was supposed to have a thriving middle class by now as a result of NAFTA. It was supposed to be one of the rich countries calling the shots. Pres. Trump has talked a lot about putting America first and how America got screwed but a lot of people don't know that Mexicans took an L too.

If millions in both countries feel like they got a raw deal, then you have to ask yourself who profited and who benefited...
 
Here's what I learn
Enrique Peña Nieto: good looking guy who has cheated on his wives before. People are telling him to go fuck his mother. His wife is spanish tv actress.
Almo: seems like he is taking bribes from the cartel. Has an advertisement to appeal to the younger generation. It's very sensual. Is telling people to cross the US border.
 
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I mean, I suppose any meaningful change COULD be good (could also be worse), but the status quo is not getting them anywhere either.

I hope they can find a way to take back their own country. A successful and prospering neighbor Mexico is much better for America than what we have now.
 
Isn't Obrador doing good right now though?

Edit: I can't seem to get any info on why people say he's a cartel supporter. Everything I've read says he despises them.
 
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Isn't Obrador doing good right now though?

Edit: I can't seem to get any info on why people say he's a cartel supporter. Everything I've read says he despises them.

Because he wants to give them amnesty and constantly brags about how he doesn't need bodyguards and security because he feels safe, a la every corrupt politician in mafia movies.

It is clear as day - if he actually posed a threat to the cartels profits, he would already have been kidnapped and sewn up in a burro.
 

Keylime

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A pretty solid primer I’d imagine with some giggles.
 
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-you-need-to-know-about-mexicos-historic-election



Basically, people are calling for an end to crime, corruption, inequality in yet another country that folks ran into the ground.

And given all the trade war talk, it should be noted that Mexico was supposed to have a thriving middle class by now as a result of NAFTA. It was supposed to be one of the rich countries calling the shots. Pres. Trump has talked a lot about putting America first and how America got screwed but a lot of people don't know that Mexicans took an L too.

If millions in both countries feel like they got a raw deal, then you have to ask yourself who profited and who benefited...

That's globalisation working as intended - you are only left with jobs which are too cheap to be exported away.
 

Super Mario

Banned
That's globalisation working as intended - you are only left with jobs which are too cheap to be exported away.

Pretty much this. It would be absolutely incredible to see Mexico better off. Liberals would never want poor countries to be better off. They wouldn't need globalists to protest them then.
 
Pretty much this. It would be absolutely incredible to see Mexico better off. Liberals would never want poor countries to be better off. They wouldn't need globalists to protest them then.

Thefuq you get this logic from?

Democrats are in favor of a smaller military.

Part of the reason our military budget is out of scope is because we're policing the world.

This is the first time I've ever heard someone try to make an argument that "liberals" want to maintain vassal states.

It's Republicans who don't want to give up control. See: Israel
 

KINGMOKU

Member
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/27/americas/mexico-political-deaths-election-season-trnd/index.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-l...ection-a-grieving-widow-defies-criminal-gangs

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/06/2...-on-mexico-s-largest-election-in-history.html

If Mexico ever gets it together, does what needs to be done(Tombstone style hunting of all cartel members/bosses)illegal immigration could become a thing of the past.

Its absolutely appalling what is happening south of the border and a strong, strong trump style of leader is what is needed in my honest opinion. Get done, what needs to be done.
 

cryptoadam

Banned
Thefuq you get this logic from?

Democrats are in favor of a smaller military.

Part of the reason our military budget is out of scope is because we're policing the world.

This is the first time I've ever heard someone try to make an argument that "liberals" want to maintain vassal states.

It's Republicans who don't want to give up control. See: Israel

Liberals want Mexico to be poor so millions of migrants will illegally flood into your country.

And I dont get your last comment? Republicans control Israel? I thought it was Israel and AIPAC control the US government (and the world, and weather, and meida etc... /s). More like Liberals like Obama wanted Israel to be a vassal state thats why they interfered in its election to try and bring down Bibi. Meanwhile Israel dumped its leftist out to lunch government and has turned itself into the 25th most powerful economy with a GDP that recently passed Japan.
 
Liberals want Mexico to be poor so millions of migrants will illegally flood into your country.

And I dont get your last comment? Republicans control Israel? I thought it was Israel and AIPAC control the US government (and the world, and weather, and meida etc... /s). More like Liberals like Obama wanted Israel to be a vassal state thats why they interfered in its election to try and bring down Bibi. Meanwhile Israel dumped its leftist out to lunch government and has turned itself into the 25th most powerful economy with a GDP that recently passed Japan.

This is Looney Tunes.

From where are you getting this information?
 

cryptoadam

Banned
This is Looney Tunes.

From where are you getting this information?

That Obama interfered in the Israeli election? Its a pretty well known story.

NGO connected to Obama’s 2008 campaign used U.S. tax dollars trying to oust Netanyahu.

American's don't like it when others interfere in their elections but have no problems going around the world doing it.

Israel passes Japan

Israel enjoys GDP per capita of $42,120. In contrast, Japan's GDP per capita is $40,850.

Israel 25th most powerful economy

Israel is the 25th-strongest economy in the world, new index finds

Of course Israel(Jews) don't control the weather/world/media that was sarcasm. I just was confused because you said Republicans want Israel as a vassal state when generally the propaganda I read says that Jews/Israel control the US, especially through AIPAC and of course the media and their money. First time I have read someone phrase it the other way around.
 
That Obama interfered in the Israeli election? Its a pretty well known story.

NGO connected to Obama’s 2008 campaign used U.S. tax dollars trying to oust Netanyahu.

American's don't like it when others interfere in their elections but have no problems going around the world doing it.

Israel passes Japan

Israel enjoys GDP per capita of $42,120. In contrast, Japan's GDP per capita is $40,850.

Israel 25th most powerful economy

Israel is the 25th-strongest economy in the world, new index finds

Of course Israel(Jews) don't control the weather/world/media that was sarcasm. I just was confused because you said Republicans want Israel as a vassal state when generally the propaganda I read says that Jews/Israel control the US, especially through AIPAC and of course the media and their money. First time I have read someone phrase it the other way around.

I'm sorry, I meant the stuff about people wanting to perpetuate Mexico's poverty.
 

Super Mario

Banned
Thefuq you get this logic from?

Democrats are in favor of a smaller military.

Part of the reason our military budget is out of scope is because we're policing the world.

This is the first time I've ever heard someone try to make an argument that "liberals" want to maintain vassal states.

It's Republicans who don't want to give up control. See: Israel

It's pretty clear. The democratic platform is about needing "protection" because you are "oppressed". There are many examples of it. I'll use welfare programs. It is never going to fix anyone's scenario. It creates a dependence. Why would you vote for anything other than Democrat if you are going to get free stuff because of them?

Seriously, what's in it for Democrats to let Mexico get its act together? Their current platform consists of "illegals are Americans and anything other than that is racist". What political party do you think illegals overwhelmingly support? Might their views change if they became legal, taxpaying, citizens?
 
It's pretty clear. The democratic platform is about needing "protection" because you are "oppressed". There are many examples of it. I'll use welfare programs. It is never going to fix anyone's scenario. It creates a dependence. Why would you vote for anything other than Democrat if you are going to get free stuff because of them?

Seriously, what's in it for Democrats to let Mexico get its act together? Their current platform consists of "illegals are Americans and anything other than that is racist". What political party do you think illegals overwhelmingly support? Might their views change if they became legal, taxpaying, citizens?

Tinfoil hat.
 
Because he wants to give them amnesty and constantly brags about how he doesn't need bodyguards and security because he feels safe, a la every corrupt politician in mafia movies.

It is clear as day - if he actually posed a threat to the cartels profits, he would already have been kidnapped and sewn up in a burro.

That is pretty much your opinion though. And you may or may not be wrong.

What I've read about the guy is he is from the South where poverty and geography is harsh and the past governments do not really work for them. His rhetoric about immigration is problematic from my perspective but Trumps rhetoric was also problematic prior to his election and he's not done the worst job as president. So I will reserve judgement for the guy until facts come out that have been corroborated.
 

44Forever

Member
The proof will be what the new President actually does or tries to do when he gets into office. If he can actually does work towards reducing corruption that will be a good thing for that 3rd world country. But if he does that I'm not sure how long he will last either.
 

Azurro

Banned
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/27/americas/mexico-political-deaths-election-season-trnd/index.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-l...ection-a-grieving-widow-defies-criminal-gangs

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/06/2...-on-mexico-s-largest-election-in-history.html

If Mexico ever gets it together, does what needs to be done(Tombstone style hunting of all cartel members/bosses)illegal immigration could become a thing of the past.

Its absolutely appalling what is happening south of the border and a strong, strong trump style of leader is what is needed in my honest opinion. Get done, what needs to be done.

The net immigration from Mexico is down the last few years actually, the mass immigration has already happened and the previous decades and is done and dusted, most of the people coming through now are from Central America: Honduras, El Salvador and such. This election will have relatively little effect on that, unless Trump decides to work with the Mexican Gobernment like Obama did and reinforce the southern Mexican border and deport illegal Central American immigrants back to where they are from.

Trump has little political capital though, and will resort to flashy but inefficient measures like the scandal with the arrested parents being separated from their kids.
 

oagboghi2

Member
Tinfoil hat.
The only people in America benefitting from Mexico poverty is the Democratic party. The only people benefitting from people fleeing Mexico to sneak into America is the Democratic party. The only group running an open borders policy position to directly secure those people is the Democrats.

could be a coincidence. I doubt it.
 
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iamblades

Member
I'm sorry, I meant the stuff about people wanting to perpetuate Mexico's poverty.

No one wants to or needs to perpetuate Mexico's poverty.

Mexico has possibly the shittiest geographic situation of any country in the world. Maybe you could say Afghanistan and Sudan are in worse situations, but not many other nations are. Mexico's geography makes it incredibly difficult for nationwide integrated economic and political institutions to develop.

Demographically and market competition wise, Mexico is in a strong position for decades of high economic growth, but that will require a strong trade and political relationship with the US, because Mexico will need US capital(and more importantly probably, cheap energy from the US shale boom) to overcome it's geographic problems.

It will also not hurt to have a market for their goods, but that is less important, as Mexican demographics should mean a relatively strong domestic consumer market for the foreseeable future.

If the US could find a way to end the drug war, it would make a massive difference for Mexican political stability, but that's a longshot.
 
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No one wants to or needs to perpetuate Mexico's poverty.

Mexico has possibly the ****tiest geographic situation of any country in the world. Maybe you could say Afghanistan and Sudan are in worse situations, but not many other nations are. Mexico's geography makes it incredibly difficult for nationwide integrated economic and political institutions to develop.

Demographically and market competition wise, Mexico is in a strong position for decades of high economic growth, but that will require a strong trade and political relationship with the US, because Mexico will need US capital(and more importantly probably, cheap energy from the US shale boom) to overcome it's geographic problems.

It will also not hurt to have a market for their goods, but that is less important, as Mexican demographics should mean a relatively strong domestic consumer market for the foreseeable future.

If the US could find a way to end the drug war, it would make a massive difference for Mexican political stability, but that's a longshot.

I don't disagree with any of this.

I was asking for evidence that "liberals do not want poor countries to be better off," and I've been provided a lot of information, but nothing that corroborates this accusation.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
The US needs to end the war on drugs. That depowers the cartels, makes places like Juarez way less murder-y, and makes it way more feasible for Mexico to effectively govern itself.

That, and treat folks humanely at the border and provide a fair and sensible immigration policy.
 
I don't really know much of Mexican politics so I've not much to add other than maybe some ignorance (work in progress, mind you) lol...

But just wanted to say, as someone who watched the Univision/Netflix drama El Chapo twice, once when it released and again just finished it up in June...

It was pretty unreal to watch the episodes where Lopez Obrador has the election in 2006 stolen from him... and then to realize the very next week, that in fact he's the guy that is about to actually win the 2018 election.

Not taking the way the drama portrays it as fact or anything, mind you ~~ I feel the drama takes a lot of creative liberties with the real history of the government and cartels. I've been slowly reading up on the real events it portrays to correct that.

Just saying it was kinda surreal to realize he finally won, and almost a sort of irony that the people in the drama I guess are all gone now and here he is, not only still around but finally the victor.
 

Rookje

Member
Mexico is going to turn into another Venezuela. Illegal immigration is going to get even worse.

Its easier to fight Al Qaeda than the drug cartels in Mexico.
 

A.Romero

Member
Because he wants to give them amnesty and constantly brags about how he doesn't need bodyguards and security because he feels safe, a la every corrupt politician in mafia movies.

It is clear as day - if he actually posed a threat to the cartels profits, he would already have been kidnapped and sewn up in a burro.

LOL.

He proposes amnesty because all out war did nothing to shut down cartels.

Also if cartels wanted a president dead it wouldn't matter if they have bodyguards or not. During Calderón's time they killed two secretaries of state by downing a plane and an helicopter.

He is trying a different approach because nothing has worked before. Actually, quite de opposite. 2017 was a record year for killings in Mexico.
 
LOL.

He proposes amnesty because all out war did nothing to shut down cartels.

Also if cartels wanted a president dead it wouldn't matter if they have bodyguards or not. During Calderón's time they killed two secretaries of state by downing a plane and an helicopter.

He is trying a different approach because nothing has worked before. Actually, quite de opposite. 2017 was a record year for killings in Mexico.

The cartels are caused by US policy, not Mexico's. The Mexican war on the cartels is a response to the cartels killing Mexican citizens and terrorizing large swaths of the country. A country is supposed to defend its citizens - that is why taxes are paid.

Rather than give immunity to the cartels for terrorizing the citizens he claims to protect, he ought to petition the US to legalize drugs.
 

A.Romero

Member
The cartels are caused by US policy, not Mexico's. The Mexican war on the cartels is a response to the cartels killing Mexican citizens and terrorizing large swaths of the country. A country is supposed to defend its citizens - that is why taxes are paid.

Rather than give immunity to the cartels for terrorizing the citizens he claims to protect, he ought to petition the US to legalize drugs.

It's clear to me what the source of the issue with the cartels is and where all the money comes from.

That said you are mistaken about the source of the war on cartels by Calderón. There was one single relatively new cartel who was doing more than drug dealing (meaning extorting people and kidnapping mainly). And that cartel operated in the north east of the country (Tamaulipas and Nuevo León, mainly which is where I have lived for the last 10 years). These guys were particularly violent as their founding members were ex military, special forces trained by the Mossad. Calderon decided to push for an all out war on all cartels, however investigations done by some journalist argue that the war was being fought in favour of one of the cartels: El Cartel de Sinaloa, which is the one led by El Chapo. This decision didn't really make sense as history has proven, for example in Colombia, that these tactics don't really solve anything in the long term.

Both Vicente Fox and Calderon (presidents elected on 2000 and 2006) are from the same right wing party. During Fox's mandate El Chapo escaped prision for the first time. The goverment was not able to provide a satisfactory explanation of how that happened. El Chapo was caught again only after the current president Enrique Peña Nieto took power (he is from another party). El Chapo escaped again, this time through a very sofisticated tunnel, and was later caught again and finally he was extradited (something that didn't happen before, some people argue that it was because he had an agreement with the goverment).

In any case, Calderon's all out war brought Mexico years of violence that was never seen before with hundred of thousands of deaths, many of them innocent civilians. At the end, nothing changed other than the rebranding of some of the cartels such as Cartel del Golfo.

You could say that one of the reasons Peña Nieto won the 2012 elections was because people were displeased by these results. Many argue that Peña Nieto won because of fraud and because Calderon's party made an agreement with Peña's party to keep Lopez Obrador out of power. This time around it seems that they couldn't reach an agreement as Anaya (the right win party candidate) took an scorched earth approach and publicly went against the current president, eliminating any possible chance of building an alliance.

Regarding Lopez Obrador's standing regarding legalization: He said that he would put it to vote by the population of Mexico which to my mind is the correct approach. I'm pro-legalization however I think the whole country should be able to participate in making such a decision. Given that Lopez Obrador is a left wing candidate and it's the first time the Left has won a presidential election in Mexico's history (Mexico has been independent since 1810 and it abolished the last dictator in 1910, as you can see it's a very young nation).

Lopez Obrador is all for democratic countries making their own decisions so there is no way (nor need) that he will ask permission to the US to legalize. I would be appalled and very offended if he did and I'm sure the majority of Mexicans would feel the same.

The intention of giving amnesty is purely in the interest of the future of the country. I agree with him that it is an option that should be evaluated.


I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have.
 

A.Romero

Member
Nothing will change. The Presidency is powerless to affect the absolute state of the country. Promises are nice.

There is a chance. Federal congress is López Obrador's party majority.

If the guy really means to do some good, he is in as good as it gets scenario.
 
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