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[Azih]

Azih are you a Shia muslim?

My family is Shia. To tell you the truth I'm personally not too fond of the specific Shia beliefs, and I just do the bare minimum stuff on the Ashura.

 

[bionic77]

yes cause that must be it. the koran does say its ok. wow ur brilliant.


2ndly calling a group of people or culture primitive is beyong retarded...when islam was in its golden age and progressing..was it primitive then? the sad fact is for muslims, and i guess that depends on what region of the world ur from, is that curretnly the majority of muslims and thier nations are 3rd world countries. and most of this terrorism crap comes from these nations and these people who are easily manipulated with the promise of security, food, shelter, and a target to blame for all that they dont have...some of which is justified and some is exagerated. u can claim christians were once in a similar position and they reacted with the same "blood lust" and acts which now are considered horrendous. same with hitlet...all rises with not being stable economically. look at some of the well of muslim countries, the very few, and u will see relative peace aside from the normal crap every nation/people have to deal with.

I am willing to bet that the US government has killed more innocent civilians in the last 15 years alone than every terrorist group in the last 100 years. If we measure it by deaths of innocent civilians it looks like we are a bigger menace to the world than Osama.

 

[effzee]

Azih are you a Shia muslim? If so then it's nice to know that a fellow Shia browses this forum. If not, well it's still nice to know that a fellow muslim browses these forums.

also fellow muslim! time for roll call? not shia but hanafi sunni although i love me all me muslims.

 

[Azih]

that was my original analogy was to Torah (literally, "Law", or the Law of God). Do you or do you not agree that it is a perfect analogy? Furthermore, do you think the Jewish community's reaction would be comparable in any way?

I have no idea what the Jewish relationship with the Torah is so I can't comment. But I don't think that any attempt to find a perfect analogy with the other monotheistic faiths will work. Drawing parallels is great and especially useful when comparing judaism,christianity, and islam but it only goes so far.

I did however think I made it kinda clear how important the Quran is to Muslims by stating that the Quran is more important than the Prophet Muhammad. The belief is that the entire progression of revelation ended with the Quran wherin it was *perfected*. The only element of (perhaps) greater stature would be the Kaaba in Mecca.

 

[effzee]

My family is Shia. To tell you the truth I'm personally not too fond of the specific Shia beliefs, and I just do the bare minimum stuff on the Ashura.

completely diff topic but lately ive been reading up on shia beliefs and the differences cause i have becoming friends with tons of shia muslims recently and i realized i had many misconceptions and had no read idea. like my fam on ashura the most we do is fast but i know shia's go thru a lot more. im also interested in some sites that clearly define the differences in beliefs without being biased to either one side? i also am interested to see how shia and sunni marriages work out.

yes completely random fact.

 

[Guileless]

Buddy take it from me but don't lump the two places together in front of Persians because as a rule Persians. do. not. like. Arabs. Trust me on this.

Buddy I don't care what Arabs and Persians think of each other. They each live in developing countries with similar resources and problems. I will continue to lump the countries generally acknowledged as being in the "Middle East" together as many people much smarter than I am do.

Instigator, you ignored the contents of the report. Read something about the report (from the website of your choice) and tell us what you think.

 

[bionic77]

Buddy I don't care what Arabs and Persians think of each other. They each live in developing countries with similar resources and problems. I will continue to lump the countries generally acknowledged as being in the "Middle East" together as many people much smarter than I am do.

Do you take delight in being ignorant?

 

[Azih]

Buddy I don't care what Arabs and Persians think of each other.

Which is why you aren't worth considering when you spout off about the region.

I will continue to lump the countries generally acknowledged as being in the "Middle East" together as many people much smarter than I am do

So why don't you invite them into this thread and leave so I can actually have a decent conversation.

 

[GSG Flash]

also fellow muslim! time for roll call? not shia but hanafi sunni although i love me all me muslims.

Nice! good to know that there are a few muslims on these boards. I'm friendly to all muslims and all muslims are my friends/bros/sis's (?) except for those who call themselves muslims but really aren't *cough*wahabi's/terrorists/radical maniacs*cough* and ony other muslims that are enemy's of shias or any other religion for that matter.

 

[Firest0rm]

For people that want to understand the real issue of radical Islam, I strongly suggest reading The Two Faces of Islam by Stephen Schwartz. Especially PS2 KID, you'll understand Azih's points a little better.

Also, something that might help people understand why the Qur'an is so important to Muslims. I'm sure most of you know how each prophet had his shares of miracles, well in the case of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), since he is believed to be the last prophet by Muslims his miracle will have to last forever in order for everyone to experience. And this miracle is the Qur'an itself which is believed by Muslims to be the word of God.

 

[PS2 KID]

For people that want to understand the real issue of radical Islam, I strongly suggest reading The Two Faces of Islam by Stephen Schwartz. Especially PS2 KID, you'll understand Azih's points a little better.

Also, something that might help people understand why the Qur'an is so important to Muslims. I'm sure most of you know how each prophet had his shares of miracles, well in the case of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), since he is believed to be the last prophet by Muslims his miracle will have to last forever in order for everyone to experience. And this miracle is the Qur'an itself which is believed by Muslims to be the word of God.

See this has me a little worried. You're so busy explaining what radical Islam, is, the differences due to centuries old conflicts between Sunni and Shia, the less dangerous sects like the Sufi's and the Hanafi's but it still does not explain why Globally we haven't seen more protests, outrage, representation fo the 'good' Islam vs. the radicals. It's like they are mute and there's no outcry against he radicals. Be it fear, or acceptence of radicals, there has to be some self respect amongst the more moderate and liberal entities that exist within the Global Islamic Community. I don't say the United States and then say.. well we have red states and blue states, and pacifists and hippies and say you should read a book to understand the US. Nor do I say you have to be a US citizen.. but this is the type of feedback we're getting from fellow Muslims here. My point if you are so willing to point out how sacred the Quran is, is not saving Islam the religion from the influence of the more Radical entities just as important? What is being done? Where is the representation. I'm not asking for Global Solidarity, I'm asking why Globally (that is around the World), there's been too little criticism of the acts of the Radical Islamists from fellow non-Radical Islamists. That question has yet to be answered and until it is, then it will be assumed that such actions are condoned without that criticism of them.

 

[GSG Flash]

See this has me a little worried. You're so busy explaining what radical Islam, is, the differences due to centuries old conflicts between Sunni and Shia, the less dangerous sects like the Sufi's and the Hanafi's but it still does not explain why Globally we haven't seen more protests, outrage, representation fo the 'good' Islam vs. the radicals. It's like they are mute and there's no outcry against he radicals. Be it fear, or acceptence of radicals, there has to be some self respect amongst the more moderate and liberal entities that exist within the Global Islamic Community. I don't say the United States and then say.. well we have red states and blue states, and pacifists and hippies and say you should read a book to understand the US. Nor do I say you have to be a US citizen.. but this is the type of feedback we're getting from fellow Muslims here. My point if you are so willing to point out how sacred the Quran is, is not saving Islam the religion from the influence of the more Radical entities just as important? What is being done? Where is the representation. I'm not asking for Global Solidarity, I'm asking why Globally (that is around the World), there's been too little criticism of the acts of the Radical Islamists from fellow non-Radical Islamists. That question has yet to be answered and until it is, then it will be assumed that such actions are condoned without that criticism of them.

See the problem with protests against Radicals is that tehy don't care, it's a simple as that. When people protest against the government or a government of another country, the government actually listens because that is their job, to listen to the people and act upon their needs or complaints (whether they take the subject of the protest in consideration is another subject) What use would a protest against the radicals do? Show the radicals that muslims don't want these kind of attacks against innocent people? They won't care, I mean these are the same people who have killed hundreds of thousands muslims. And protesting against the mid eastern governments won't do anything either considering they are already trying to kill the terrorists.

The point is that staging a protest against radicals is not the same as staging a protest against governments because the radicals are hell bent on destroying everyone but themselves, regardless of what anybody thinks of them because they're crazy maniacs.

 

[PS2 KID]

See the problem with protests against Radicals is that tehy don't care, it's a simple as that. When people protest against the government or a government of another country, the government actually listens because that is their job, to listen to the people and act upon their needs or complaints (whether they take the subject of the protest in consideration is another subject) What use would a protest against the radicals do? Show the radicals that muslims don't want these kind of attacks against innocent people? They won't care, I mean these are the same people who have killed hundreds of thousands muslims. And protesting against the mid eastern governments won't do anything either considering they are already trying to kill the terrorists.

The point is that staging a protest against radicals is not the same as staging a protest against governments because the radicals are hell bent on destroying everyone but themselves, regardless of what anybody thinks of them because they're crazy maniacs.

That's not a good excuse for staying mute. I mean if the people in Tianamen Square could protest for democracy when there was little to no chance of getting it, or Iranian University Students, what's to stop everyday Muslims passionate enough to express their outrage at their Radical contemporaries from staging a protest or a gathering of some kind. You may think there's nothing to be gained but until those voices are heard, the lack of response is genuinely unsettling. Or basically until you try you don't know.

Edit: Come to think of it Iraqis came out to vote even when they knew there was a chance that violence would take their lives. I thought that was very inspiring. That and the Lebanese telling the Syrians to go home.

 

[GSG Flash]

That's not a good excuse for staying mute. I mean if the people in Tianamen Square could protest for democracy when there was little to no chance of getting it, or Iranian University Students, what's to stop everyday Muslims passionate enough to express their outrage at their Radical contemporaries from staging a protest or a gathering of some kind. You may think there's nothing to be gained but until those voices are heard, the lack of response is genuinely unsettling. Or basically until you try you don't know.

Yes that is true but I still don't believe it will do anything. And if muslims in countries like Iraq or Iran staged a protest, then the terrorists would have a clear target to bomb. Of course we won't find out until there is a protest (and i'm sure there will be one in the future) but I'm betting the muslims in those countries would rather be safe than sorry.

 

[Azih]

but it still does not explain why Globally we haven't seen more protests, outrage, representation fo the 'good' Islam vs. the radicals.

There is no such thing as 'good' Islam vs the radicals. The Wahhabis may be the crazy ones but everybody else sticks to their own little groups (it's splintered, really very splintered, amazingly splintered. SPLINTERED SPLINTERED SPLINTERED). Which means that there is no united opposition to the Wahhabis. Which would be necessary. Standing up alone is a sure fire way of getting killed.

You know it's all well and good to sit back in the comfortable West with free speech and rights and laws and spout on about how the people 'over there' should follow the great pure example of Tiannamen square forgetting of course that those students were fucking MASSACRED and some of them were burned alive. I have aunts and uncles and cousins over where you want all these protests to happen; one of whom just had her second child (that's my niece). I don't want them going out and painting big huge targets on themselves. Fuck you*

Which leads me to the point that the radicals are flush with Saudi money so they're the only ones in most cases who go into the rural areas and provide schools. Pakistan and Afghanistan have an extremely large proportion of illiteracy and no prospects so most parents are grateful to have any assistance at all. Of course the schools are Wahhabi training grounds but what the hey are you going to do? Why don't you get the West to go in there and build some infrastrucutre and decent schools? It'd help everyone out a whole lot.

Better yet how about getting rid of the huge western agricultural subsidies so that countries like Pakistan could actually trade on the market and get some capital so they could do it themselves? But oh teh no what about the AMERICAN and EUROPEAN FARMER?

Anyhoo that's getting way off topic. Back to the Wahhabis being flush with cash. This also means that they're fucking armed to the teeth. Everybody else really isn't.

In fact everybody else is struggling to get by in corrupt countries with not very many prospects, if you're working a full day just to provide for your family then you aint got any freaking energy to be a political activist. And once again don't you dare sit in your nice chair in front of your nice computer in a country where there isn't a good chance of you getting blown up and whine 'well they shouuuulld'.

Also you gotta understand that very few people in those regions care about what the Wahhabis are doing outside of their countries (just like you don't really care about the people that got killed in the mosque in Karachi). You also gotta understand that everybody in the region has a view of American foriegn policy that ranges pretty much from suspicion to outright rage. For both good and bad reasons.

*meant in the nicest way possible. But shit this is my family you're talking about