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What's the most diverse country in the world? Yeah, that's right, you guessed it.

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efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
I'm not really sure what you are trying to say, or why population matters much beyond a certain point. There are like 7-8 countries in the world which don't have "small" populations compared to the United States. Are those the only ones that count?

Not at all. I shouldn't have used the word "discount", was trying to find a weaker substitute but couldn't come up with one.
But Canada is in an interesting position where its territory is immense and there is an excess of resources compared to the very small population size, which means it's not necessarily the best model of diversity because most countries can't possibly hope to ever have the conditions needed to replicate it.
 
Seems a bit flawed that tribes only counts towards diversity in some countries but is completely taken out of the picture in others. If anything this highlights to me that colonial borders make it hard for people to find and accept a national identity. Or that some racialy and culturally close groups just didn't come together yet to form a national identity.

I find that interesting considering the history of my own country, Germany, which ranks pretty low on that list. For the longest time the map of central Europe looked like a clusterfuck thanks to each German tribe having it's own state. Only in 1871 Germany unified for the first time. The German language as something that people from north to south can understand only took proper shape after the protestant reformation thanks to Martin Luthers translation of the bible.

Yeah that's where this notion of ethnicity is flawed. Counting different tribes as different ethnicities is just silly.
 

kswiston

Member
Diversity in Canada is a bit scewed. The majority of it happens in just two/three cities.

To be fair, almost 40% of the country lives in the GTA, the Montreal metro area, and the Vancouver metro area. If you throw in Ottawa, Calgary, and Edmonton, you're up to 50% of the country.

Diversity in other countries would also take a hit if you discounted their biggest metro areas. Outside of the major cities, you will mostly find white and native people, but I think that's pretty common everywhere.
 

PillarEN

Member
If you do live close to the border you can watch both Canadian and American television channels. And you get access to both Canadian/American shows and Canadian/American commercials.

Even just watching commercials you can see Canadian TV is more diverse. Canadian banking commercials constantly use interracial couples in their advertising, and the bank adviser depicted will often be a different race as well. In the American equivalent, often everyone would be white.

I can vouch for this. Every time I'm watching a Canadian feed for hockey it's nuts how diverse every single Canadian commercial is. No exceptions. The US is diverse too. But they got nothing on Canadian commercials in that regard.
 
I'm guessing you don't live near the Canadian/US border.

You original comment about the media not depicting Canada as diverse makes sense now. As American media rarely if ever depicts Canada. When they do it's often just a scripted recreation of Canada, and not actual Canada.

If you do live close to the border you can watch both Canadian and American television channels. And you get access to both Canadian/American shows and Canadian/American commercials.

Even just watching commercials you can see Canadian TV is more diverse. Canadian banking commercials constantly use interracial couples in their advertising, and the bank adviser depicted will often be a different race as well. In the American equivalent, often everyone would be white.

What's Canada's equivalent to Fresh Prince of Bell Air?
 

RocknRola

Member
Not that surprised with my country's placing (though y'all are more then welcome to stay! :) ), but I was pretty surprised at the overall results (and justifications for said results). The more you learn I guess!
 

Fritz

Member
This is exactly the kind of intellectual divide I was talking about. Sooner or later (and at the current rate I'm betting on sooner) there will be a large fracture along those lines.
Edit: and I'm hoping that when this fracture manifests itself it will go along with a unification along the orthogonal lines of ethnicity and race.

This is science fiction and god beware it comes to this, but:

I went to this lecture by a neuroscientist and he basically claimed that we will find the key to immortality in the not so distance future as well as other milestones in medical technology etc. But it will be expensive and we are facing a really big divide that will accelerate really quickly. The lecture left me pretty devastated. The plot of the Time Mashine didn't seem too far fetch d any more.

Speaking from a German perspective: There was a big immigration wave of Iranian intellectuals who left Iran after the revolution. They have the highest rate(IIRC) of university degrees per capita. There is no anti-Iranian sentiment in the German populace at all. I think it's more of a class/education issue than an ethnic one.

edit: Beaten by Fritz of all people

Should have taken that lunch date :D
 
Canada is more diverse than the US? That's good to know, I always see people saying the opposite on here.
The biggest difference between the two is the weight between Urban versus Rural.

US still has a heavier Rural weight while Canada has a rabidly growing Urban weight
 

kswiston

Member
Damn, I'm impressed with an all Muslim tv sitcom show, and it looked like it got good ratings. Go Canada. LOL

It had white characters as well, so it wasn't exactly equivalent to the Fresh Prince. Fresh off the Boat would probably be a closer comparison with mixed cast.

Also, Canada had preferential immigration to white people until the 1960s, so the large majority of our visible minorities are immigrants or first generation. As such, our fairly substantial Asian population often watches media from their country of origin, instead of watching/creating their own Canadian media. That will probably change in a few more decades as their children and grandchildren more closely associate with being Canadian.

Black American media is so rich because the American black population has a very long history, and has been actively involved in creating media aimed at black audiences for at least 50 years now.
 

Pila

Member
italy down there with japan?
now, what a surprise!

I was kinda shocked. My whole life has been spent with "diverse" people. I was chatting with my pakistani colleague five minutes ago.

Dunno, that list is really nothing like my own experience, maybe I'm lucky.
 

Fritz

Member
I was kinda shocked. My whole life has been spent with "diverse" people. I was chatting with my pakistani colleague five minutes ago.

Dunno, that list is really nothing like my own experience, maybe I'm lucky.

"I have a diverse friend! Terrific chap"

;)
 

Prax

Member
Kim's Convenience from the CBC is good too! (Korean family living in Toronto sitcom).

Reading through this thread was frustrating at times due to some of the ignorance you get smacked with. All this "but they are /just/ diffenrent tribes! they are not /really/ different from one another!" and focus on skin colour or geographical location being defining characteristics of a different groups..

I'm pleasantly surprised by Canada's placement, but it's probably because it's a young and small country (population-wise) that depends on immigration heavily, so groups are newer and remain more disparate.

African nation stories are the other extreme where time has led to many, many groups springing up and subdividing into different ethnic identities.
 

Pila

Member
"I have a diverse friend! Terrific chap"

Dude come on, I wasn't doing that lame thing. :(

I'm just surprised ad the results, I honestly expected my country to rank better based on my experience.

Not sure why you had to write that.
 

Fritz

Member
Dude come on, I wasn't doing that lame thing. :(

I'm just surprised ad the results, I honestly expected my country to rank better based on my experience.

Not sure why you had to write that.

Just teasing. Don't worry. It really didn't actually come off like that.
 
There is almost a perfect inverse relationship between how modernized a country is and where it appears on this list (with obvious exceptions for repressive dictatorships like North Korea which aren't modern, but because they're repressive dictatorships with closed borders and ethnic cleansing, it skews the trend).

The list in this order seems to confirm that as countries become more modernized, diversity is sacrificed for physical and social mobility. I think it's considering diversity as something very different than the typical Western ideal of diversity, and in that way, the diversity that this represents is very harmful for a more equal society. Western liberal democracies typically strive for classical diversity as an ideal, but it would seem that the method here suggests that once a country moves towards being more liberal (classical liberalism here), more educated, with easier social and physical mobility throughout the entirety of the country, that diversity is sacrificed.

Russia is a good example of a highly diverse, but blatantly unequal society from this list. Western Russia is a modern country which probably has a fairly homogenous society (or at least, on par with Europe or the Americas), but outside of Western Russia, the rest of the country has relatively little social or physical mobility, desperate conditions, and very little connection to the Russian government. Should the entirety of Russia become more modernized over the next 30 years, I'd imagine you'd see their rank on this list drop, as the ability for people to move seems to make a country less diverse, which should almost be a paradox if we're thinking of the classical ideal of diversity. Consider that if the United States in 1859 were on this list, it would perform better than the United States of today, because approximately 15% of the country's population -- indentured slaves -- were barred from travel, barred from learning how to read, barred from sharing other cultures (and becoming more homogenized), yet this would have led to more distinct diversity. A good portion of African Americans in 2017 are descendants of slaves, but because of social and physical mobility, the methods of this study would (rightly) consider them less diverse today than their ancestors 200 years ago, who were withheld the right of education and mobility which, as the method would suggest, preserved their diversity.

So, given that, I think I'd be a little hesitant to celebrate being higher ranked on this list.

Probably because it's not necessarily reflected in the culture or media.

I'd imagine Canada's ethnic diversity in this list is due to its strong native population with distinct cultures, where as the native American culture in the United States has been roughly assimilated (historically through force, coercion, today largely through proximity). Canada and the US are in the same ballpark, so I think those distinct native populations bolster Canada's rank.

Though, I'm not really sure if you want to go much higher than 50 in this list... Of the top 30, an overwhelming majority are the most illiberal, autocratic, unequal dictatorships in the world. It makes sense that the method of this study would consider them more diverse, because lack of social mobility, lack of technology, lack of country-wide education, and rampant disease, squalor, and malnutrition keeps nationalities distinct within these countries and leads to very little homogenization, mixing of cultures, or reproduction between distinct groups.
 
Part of me kind of hopes Trump looks at this list, sees the US isn't number 1, and based on his inane desire to always win everything, makes the necessary steps to change it.
 

Dr.Acula

Banned
The two foremost studies in the area use ethnic fractionalisation, an approximation of the probability that two randomly selected individuals from a country will not be from the same ethnic group.

Uhh, how is it even possible to score a 1.000? Wouldn't that mean Papua New Guinea doesn't have any two people from the same ethnic group? Or are they using other metrics? I'm confused.
 

kswiston

Member
Though, I'm not really sure if you want to go much higher than 50 in this list... Of the top 30, an overwhelming majority are the most illiberal, autocratic, unequal dictatorships in the world. It makes sense that the method of this study would consider them more diverse, because lack of social mobility, lack of technology, lack of country-wide education, and rampant disease, squalor, and malnutrition keeps nationalities distinct within these countries and leads to very little homogenization, mixing of cultures, or reproduction between distinct groups.

I think you are making a causation/correlation mistake.

The British Empire (and other European empires to a lesser extent) arbitrarily divided up their African and Asian colonies into territories with zero consideration to local ethnopolitical history. Europe was at least given a couple thousand years to sort itself out into somewhat natural political divisions (given cultural and ethnic history). Africa has had less than a century of independence (less than 50 years for many countries), after 300 years of Europe pillaging and subjugating most of the continent. Many European states also flamed inter-tribal hatred as a tool for keeping majority black African populations subjugated to minority white colonists. This has lead to a lot of the post-independence civil wars.

If we are looking at rates of inter-ethnic mingling in terms of marriage and political involvement, I don't think African nations fair that poorly.
 
Uhh, how is it even possible to score a 1.000? Wouldn't that mean Papua New Guinea doesn't have any two people from the same ethnic group? Or are they using other metrics? I'm confused.

they might've normalized everything relative to the most diverse country, and made that the standard of 1.0. I can't think of any other way that'd make sense.
 
I think you are making a causation/correlation mistake.

The British Empire (and other European empires to a lesser extent) arbitrarily divided up their African and Asian colonies into territories with zero consideration to local ethnopolitical history. Europe was at least given a couple thousand years to sort itself out into somewhat natural political divisions (given cultural and ethnic history). Africa has had less than a century of independence (less than 50 years for many countries), after 300 years of Europe pillaging and subjugating most of the continent. May European states also flamed inter-tribal hatred as a tool for keeping majority black African populations subjugated to minority white colonists. This has lead to a lot of the post-independence civil wars.

If we are looking at rates of inter-ethnic mingling in terms of marriage and political involvement, I don't think African nations fair that poorly.

This.

And yet ignorant shit like this post below gets said with no historical context:

I too wish my country was more like Congo or Somalia!
 
I think you are making a causation/correlation mistake.

The British Empire (and other European empires to a lesser extent) arbitrarily divided up their African and Asian colonies into territories with zero consideration to local ethnopolitical history. Europe was at least given a couple thousand years to sort itself out into somewhat natural political divisions (given cultural and ethnic history). Africa has had less than a century of independence (less than 50 years for many countries), after 300 years of Europe pillaging and subjugating most of the continent. May European states also flamed inter-tribal hatred as a tool for keeping majority black African populations subjugated to minority white colonists. This has lead to a lot of the post-independence civil wars.

If we are looking at rates of inter-ethnic mingling in terms of marriage and political involvement, I don't think African nations fair that poorly.

Hell, not even 300 years for 'most' of the continent. The bulk of its geographical territory was only subjugated under European rule within the last one hundred and fifty years.
(Click on the picture for the really large version)


For some perspective, places like Hong Kong and Singapore - which you could hold up as settlements that at least somewhat adjusted to the cultural values and the norms of their colonial rulers, though one must also consider their size - were within European hands for decades by the point the Scramble for Africa happened. Much of these claims were also purely in terms of borders and resources, rather than actual administration or governance. So while France 'held' most of the Saharan interior, it wasn't really concerned with making most of the people inside it in any way 'French', not even 'French African'. They certainly didn't think about making them Mauritanian or Malian. They also didn't think to properly develop the infrastructure and administration of these regions and peoples beyond what benefited their empires in most instances, so high ethnic divisions are bundled with high divides on quality of life and a high probability for internal conflict because young and weak institutions are easily abused.

Undoubtedly, the transition of a national and/or broad regional identity into being an accepted ethnic identity can help immensely with the internal stability of a nation and its prosperity, but it is very much worth remembering the context in which many of these cases exist.
 
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