• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

What's up w/ Ninja Gaiden's lackluster sales???

Difficulty ramp and all-around challenge was a bit too overplayed in previews/reviews, I think...and that scared off some. I think it would be a good idea if NG2 had a stage sorta setup to 'train' Ryu in the fighting control, so as to allow even more 'weaksauce' gamers to understand a reasonable amount of the gameplay before being thrown to the wolves. Also, needed a more marketing both pre- and post-release on television.
 
I'm surprised none of the games released in the spring broke out to become mega hits. Gaiden, Riddick, and Pandora Tomorrow deserved so much.
NG is my pick for king of xbox games and leader of the new generation of action/adventures.
It is a shot across the bow of those who'd deem you can either have your action tuned hard or your adventure tuned deep but not both in one game.
 

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
It was far too hard for anyone who just wanted DMC with ninjas. I remember FHM tried to review it but the guy couldnt beat the first boss so he broke the disc, stuck a picture in the mag and gave it one star. I think what made DMC so successful on PS2 was that it had the challenge but if you wanted you could just switch on the assisted mode and pull off some great looking stuff without being all that great.

I dont think Itagaki appriciates the opinion that NG2 should have an easier mode, so i wouldnt expect better results for the sequel.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
NG was made for forums like this so all of you could continue to talk about how weaksauce other gamers are because they couldn't get in to it's difficulty.

boo'fuckin'ho.

"I'm so l33t I don't understand why these weaksauce players aren't as good as me..."

give me a f'n break.

The simply truth is there's nothing wrong with including difficulty settings and/or adjustable AI difficult that scales to the gaming level of the player. Either of those and Itagaki could have had his caked and ate it too.... as it is 500K is nothing to sneeze at though. As it is he had a vision and he stuck exactly to what he wanted. Nothing wrong with that either.
 

SaitoH

Member
I'm going to throw my hat in with the "600k+ sales is really good" people. I didn't think it would sell as well as it has seeing as it's more of a "hardcore" title.

Kudos to Tecmo. Now make a sequel.
 

jarrod

Banned
SolidSnakex said:
He simply likes the strongest system. He developed for the DC because it was the strongest at that time, then he moved to the PS2 and then to the Xbox. If the PS3 is the strongest platform, that'll be his platform of choice.
DOA4 is a lock for Xenon launch... Itagaki could always move on to PS3/Revolution afterward though once it releases (DOA4 Hardcore?).

I'm not sure about this "strongest platform" line entirely though. DOA was ported to both Saturn & PS1 around the same time (Saturn port coming in a few months quicker thanks to the VF2 base engine) but not N64. DOA2 on DC was most likely due more to it's Naomi roots (and Sega moneyhats) than anything. And in the handheld realm, Itagaki's chosen DS over PSP... really the whole "power" issue wasn't even mentioned until Itagaki had to defend supporting Xbox.


Mrbob said:
Sure, it has style, but how many pure action games sell 500K?
Off the top of my head Devil May Cry 1-2 & Shinobi... the games Ninja Gaiden seems patterned after. Capcom should make a 3D Strider in the same mold now.
 

gunstarhero

Member
I thought the advertising was kinda weak - plus, I'm sure the difficulty turned some (weaksauce beeee-atches) away from the game. Too bad, defitenly my GOTY so far.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
It baffles me that someone can even think that a game that sold 500K would be disappointing... They would have to have spent INSANE amounts of money on it (we are talking Shenmue kind of budget, with I'm pretty sure NG only had a fraction of) so that 500K wouldn't become profitable

Itagaki hasn't chosen his next gen system yet, it'll be whatever is most powerful.
I'm willing to bet that his platform of choice will be an Xbox successor, even if the PS3 comes clearly and visibly more powerful. Yes, he keeps saying he wants to develop for the most powerful hardware, but I think there's just something between him and Sony. If he doesn't develop games for PSP at all (I know he apparently doesn't develop for now at least) it will be quite clear.
 

belgurdo

Banned
Celicar said:
Well I didn't really like it. I thought the gameplay was really repetitive. Maybe others felt the same way?

I did too. I really didn't enjoy the "roll-roll-block-Izuna Drop" approach to the gameplay. Although I don't really blame the AI for the difficulty, I DO blame the shit camera that likes to hide enemies for making some areas harder than they should be (same reason I don't like DMC)
 

MrSingh

Member
Itagaki + Team Ninja has a very good relationship with MS. At the last TGS, it could also be seen that Tecmo is now placing a big emphasis on Xbox games. In fact I noticed that Tecmo was the only Japanese third party that chose to champion their Xbox games, most other companies had their Xbox games hidden in a dark corner.

You can bet your ass that future Team Ninja games will be coming to Xenon.
 

PhatSaqs

Banned
belgurdo said:
I did too. I really didn't enjoy the "roll-roll-block-Izuna Drop" approach to the gameplay. Although I don't really blame the AI for the difficulty, I DO blame the shit camera that likes to hide enemies for making some areas harder than they should be (same reason I don't like DMC)
Bleah. There are much more effective moves/combos (counters, flying swallow, jump windmill shuriken --> charge, king Flail combo, xxy --> windmill repeat,) than the ID combo. It's probably the best way to dispatch the Black Ninjas but it'll get you killed against the pink demons who can smack you out of in the air or any of the big enemies.

And of course, if you choose to only use one tactic the game WILL get repetitive. But to each his own. The game remains GOTY for me so far.
 

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
belgurdo said:
I did too. I really didn't enjoy the "roll-roll-block-Izuna Drop" approach to the gameplay. Although I don't really blame the AI for the difficulty, I DO blame the shit camera that likes to hide enemies for making some areas harder than they should be (same reason I don't like DMC)

There are dozens of useful and powerful combos in NG and you probably would have had an easier time if you hadnt chosen such a repetitive experience.
 
It's a sub par game. Games cannot survive on graphics alone. In order to keep up sales you need to have solid gameplay something that Itagaki-san lack's in. With the first Ninja Gaiden's I played the 2nd one for months, it was fun and new. But with the new Ninja Gaiden it's a rehash Next-Gen title (i.e. Devil May Cry) with no old school basics.
 

open_mouth_

insert_foot_
Ninja Gaiden is easily one of the best games this generation, imo. It sold pretty damn well, but it deserved more. The good news is that a sequel has been confirmed by Itagaki and that the game has yet to receive an official price drop. I see it doing really well at the $29.99 point this holiday season and easily topping 1 mil worldwide. Then next year and throughout the rest of the Xbox's life, it'll be a high quality platinum hit @ $19.99 and continue to sell well. Also, factor in the option for team ninja to include the booster packs plus an easier mode for a "Deluxe" or "Collector's Edition" and you could see another additional boost.
 

Mrbob

Member
jarrod said:
Off the top of my head Devil May Cry 1-2 & Shinobi... the games Ninja Gaiden seems patterned after. Capcom should make a 3D Strider in the same mold now.

Yeah that is what I mean there aren't very many. Shinobi averaged about 250K in both Japan and NA. Don't know about Europe. I'd love to get the European Gaiden numbers. At the end of the day though Gaiden is gonna blow away the Shinobi numbers.
 

jarrod

Banned
Mrbob said:
Yeah that is what I mean there aren't very many. Shinobi averaged about 250K in both Japan and NA. Don't know about Europe. I'd love to get the European Gaiden numbers. At the end of the day though Gaiden is gonna blow away the Shinobi numbers.
Actually for comparisons...

-Shinobi
JP: 279,966
NA: 281,802

-Ninja Gaiden
JP: 500,450
NA: 56,544

...so overall it's fairly even. I suspect Shinobi did better in Europe though considering Sega's strong EU legacy and PS2's utter dominance (80% marketshare). In the end NG will probably be on top with Platinum US sales though, but certainly not blowing anything away.

Also...

-Devil May Cry
JP: 569,763
NA: 1,070,470

-Devil May Cry 2
JP: 456,824
NA: ???

...now that's blown away. CAPCOM!! :p
 

open_mouth_

insert_foot_
jarrod said:
Actually for comparisons...

-Shinobi
JP: 279,966
NA: 281,802

-Ninja Gaiden
JP: 500,450
NA: 56,544

...so overall it's fairly even. I suspect Shinobi did better in Europe though considering Sega's strong EU legacy and PS2's utter dominance (80% marketshare). In the end NG will probably be on top with Platinum US sales though, but certainly not blowing anything away.

Also...

-Devil May Cry
JP: 569,763
NA: 1,070,470

-Devil May Cry 2
JP: 456,824
NA: ???

...now that's blown away. CAPCOM!! :p


You're comparing lifetime VS. half a year or so.
 

open_mouth_

insert_foot_
Gattsu25 said:
Its second level is harder then anything after it

not a good way to design a game, I've heard

I didn't find the 2nd harder than the rest of the game, actually. I just think it's the surprise of the game being "difficult" so soon.
 

jarrod

Banned
open_mouth_ said:
You're comparing lifetime VS. half a year or so.
Sure, and NG will get a nice boost once it's goes Platinum... but it won't blow anything away. I expect numbers similar to DOA3 (800k or so). Also, it's not like Shinobi & DMC1-2 are done selling either (though they'll have less immediate gains thanks to already being budget priced).
 
MightyHedgehog said:
Outside the Hurricane Packs, the ghost fish are the most difficult thing in the game...at least, for me.

Step 1: Equip flails
Step 2: Mash button
Step 3: wait until they stop respawning, then use the massive amount of money you earn to upgrade EVERYTHING and buy EVERYTHING. Ghost fish are great. :)
 

Future

Member
---------
There are dozens of useful and powerful combos in NG and you probably would have had an easier time if you hadnt chosen such a repetitive experience.
---------


Yup. You could roll all day and attack once in awhile. But you could also stand back and shoot everybody in Devil May Cry. The great thing about the design of these games is that it not only is much more fun and stylish to kill enemies in different ways, it is also more effective (see Devil May Cry 2, which wasn't so good because the most effective thing WAS to hang back and shoot).

Thing that sucks about Ninja Gaiden is that it is one of the only games that had an aura of hardcore difficulty hanging around it. Everyone talked about how hard it was, magazines described how hard it was, the devs themselves talked about how hard it was...and it was almost impossible to escape. I have no doubt that if anyone in a gamestore (or gamesection of a store) knew anything about any game, they knew that Ninja Gaiden was supposed to be difficult. And I think this may have had some impact on casual sales.

But like everyone said, 500k is good, and it hasn't had a holiday season potential boost either. The game was awesome, and with the Hurricane packs it probably has the most legs out of any action title this gen (probably last gen as well)
 

IJoel

Member
Tecmo should really re-release this with the Hurricane Packs and an 'easy' mode, and market it for $29.99.

They would get a lot of sales if they did that.
 

Lazy8s

The ghost of Dreamcast past
Team Ninja is a coder's development house, grown from their roots in the fiercely competitive AM market. They are more discriminating when it comes to hardware than the average developer. Higher performance hardware can always be made simply by waiting a little while for technology to advance, but that by itself is not an example of commendable design anymore than considering a game sequel better than its predecessor simply because of more added cars, costumes, or some such relatively superficial improvement. It's not the highest performance hardware that developers such as Team Ninja prefer; it's the one they find to be designed well.

Their experience with PS2 was not a positive one when they tried on the system for a port, as voiced in a development info leak a few weeks before launch in Japan that specifically pointed out the areas where they had to downgrade the DOA2 port.
 
Mega Man's Electric Sheep said:
Step 1: Equip flails
Step 2: Mash button
Step 3: wait until they stop respawning, then use the massive amount of money you earn to upgrade EVERYTHING and buy EVERYTHING. Ghost fish are great. :)

Heh Yeah, I know about that...and it works...but those things have it in for me...
 

jarrod

Banned
Actually, I'm a little surprised Team Ninja's abandoned amusement. I thought for sure we'd see an enhanced Chihiro release of DOA3 early on.

Also, I don't buy this "best hardware" talk. They had no problem supporting Saturn alongside PS1 (while ignoring N64) and now DS over PSP... in fact the system capability talk didn't start until Itagaki had to suddenly justify his team's move to Xbox, which I'd wager had far more to do with Microsoft's approach/incentives early on than any particular chipset (Xbox is a rather messy last second design actually). Makes me wonder if we'd be playing DOA3 and Ninja Gaiden on GameCube had Miyamoto put Itagaki on his initial developer support tour (with Naka, Mikami, Nagoshi, etc).
 

Alf-Life

Member
Now, I'm a bit weaksauce... I had trouble with Metroid Prime's last boss on normal (only defeated it when I went back and got the missile upgrade thing for the Ice Breaker/Beam Thing), and I never even bothered with Hard.

But... I really don't get the thing about Ninja Gaiden being that hard... the first boss was such fun, then those two horsemen were well annoying because of the camera most of all but using some fire spells and stuff they were easil dispatched after a couple of tries, and then the horseback boss, well I'll hand it to you he was tough but nowhere near as much as people complain. Or perhaps it's because the fight was so much fun, like taking on Elites on Legendary, that I didn't notice how long I spent on him.
Plus, that's where the real learning point came for me... I'd known about the special attacks (been a while since I played, but I'm on about taking multiple enemies down and charging up absorbed attacks instead of collecting the orbs they leave) before that point but that's when you really learn to use and control them to achieve a not-really-that-hard victory.
 

shpankey

not an idiot
nathkenn said:
it's a bad game, with lousy character design and too many damn specular highlights on everything, it isn’t even as hard as its made out to be, after the first couple levels it's a breeze. though the boss fights would be cool if it wasnt for the horrible camera.

sounds like you would be the perfect candidate to play the updated version then. harder and an improved camera that also allows you to control it.

p.s. i hated this game
 

Lazy8s

The ghost of Dreamcast past
Being able to stay in the mainstream arcade market requires the distribution capabilities that really only SEGA Sammy still have (even Namco survives by being teamed up with them), so Tecmo had to follow the lead of Konami and Capcom in exiting.

Of course, the critical factor in a developer's support of any console comes down to the business side. Team Ninja has a lot more say in Tecmo's direction than the average developer, though, since team head Itagaki took on the overseeing of all Tecmo software as well. He trusts Microsoft to be ambitious in hardware design when they're seeking quality technology partners like nVidia and ATi. The team liked the Saturn too -- for as messy as it was in layout, it was designed like an arcade board with no expense spared in multitude of processors. And when Team Ninja, long time aficionados of SEGA's choices in arcade hardware, moved Dead or Alive 2 from Model 3 to Naomi/DC in 1998, they mentioned their admiration for the platform SEGA had put together for DC.

However, business concerns take precedent, and Tecmo was not going to go down with the DC or ignore the PS2 initially. With a mutually beneficial partnership to their respective businesses at work between them and Microsoft, though, they were also able to satisfy their preference in hardware by going with Xbox.
 

unkasa

Banned
Probably because many found it lacking in the "fun" department. While I appreciate a good challenge, this game was difficult to a fault. This is a love it/hate it game, completely. I rented it, spent a few hours attempting wring some joy from it, and eventually returned it early. It just didn't click with me.
 

MrparisSM

Banned
unkasa said:
What? I think it's negligible now. *shrug*

at first it was only cosmetic this Gen, but when you have a game like Splinter Cell: Pandora's Tomorrow's gameplay effected by the processing power and slow loading times on the PS2's version, something's wrong....
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
MrparisSM said:
at first it was only cosmetic this Gen, but when you have a game like Splinter Cell: Pandora's Tomorrow's gameplay effected by the processing power and slow loading times on the PS2's version, something's wrong....

Yup and that something wrong is not enough coding toward that specific system.
 

unkasa

Banned
MrparisSM said:
at first it was only cosmetic this Gen, but when you have a game like Splinter Cell: Pandora's Tomorrow's gameplay effected by the processing power and slow loading times on the PS2's version, something's wrong....

DarienA hit it on the mark. While the PS2's architecture makes some arduous demands, it's ultimately up to the developer to wrest what they can from the system, a task contingent on their talent and familiarity with the PS2. MGS3 should look and play better than any version of SC:pD, which proves my point.
 

Renegade

Banned
Is that you in your avatar MrParis? Ur Hawt.

Anyway, Ninja Gaiden sold great. 500K. That's not a bad number at all. I'm betting they profited a lot on that. Aside that, Ninja Gaiden still has more potential promotions in store. Platinum Hits, possible bundle (Hardware and software), and respawned interest because of Xbox live downloads or story continuation from another game.
 

fallout

Member
20040308l.jpg
 

Mashing

Member
I didn't buy it because it's just too difficult for me. I still can't beat Viewtiful Joe and NG is harder than that game.
 
Top Bottom