Dan said:Would you just provide a fucking example already?
I never said past roles NEVER influence audience perception, but come-the-fuck-on! Are you seriously implying that mainstream audiences are even familiar with Bale's work, let alone that they're affect their view of his Bruce Wayne? Will Batman fans not be able to get Katie Holmes's Dawson's Creek character out of mind? Seriously, back up your position rather than argue semantics. All you do is keep citing the very top tier of stardom, and specifically of actors whose personal lives are the talk of the country. Those people are pretty far removed from the likes of this cast.
Again you're demonstrating your inability to appreciate that there is a spectrum between the two extremes of 'no-influence-of-past-work' and 'can't-get-Dawson's-Creek-out-of-my-mind'. And suggesting that this whole argument only applies to the 'very top tier of stardom' further highlights your lack of understanding.
It's not a difficult point, Dan. In making the argument about 'baggage' in this thread, I was thinking principally of Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman, although the argument may apply equally to other members of the cast (and they don't have to be as prominent as Caine or Freeman, either). This doesn't mean, however, that when Michael Caine appears on screen in Batman, the viewer will be incapable of separating Batman's Alfred from another Caine performance (although this could happen, I guess). It's much more subtle. Our emotional familiarity with Caine is, in my view, inevitably carried over into his later roles. This degrades the purity of his performance. When I see Caine now, I'm already 'comfortable' with his face, with his performance ... and I often know what to expect.
This doesn't mean that Caine's performance in Batman Begins is condemned from the outset. But there is the potential that his performance is less fresh and more predictable than it might have been had we never seen Caine before.
And of course, Caine's own previous work may influence his performance to a certain degree, feeding into the problem as described above.
The background to all of this is the general distaste I have for the constant recycling of actors that takes place in the film world. I'm firmly in favour of the frequent injection of new blood and fresh talent, and I believe this can help to make performances more unpredictable/exciting/varied. It also satiates the egalitarian in me - equal opportunities as opposed to the backscratching and elitism that currently dominates the profession as a whole.
That's all it is. It's not an especially complicated or difficult argument. I'd like to have discussed it further, perhaps, but you've seen how this dumb thread has turned out.
levious said:Now you're putting words in MY mouth. I never intended to argue anything more than bigness of LOTR cast vs bigness of Begins cast. You point of past baggage is a good one, but I find it irrelevant to the cast of Batman Begins... please point out one of the actors that carries past baggage, preferably besides Katie Holmes.
No, actually, your argument echoed Dan's. This is what you said:
'ha, talk about a saturated hollywood ensemble cast... Sean Astin, BOTH Coreys AND Joe Pantoliano in a minor supporting role? How am I supposed to suspend belief and separate these stars from their characters?'
As for the rest of my argument, see above.