White cop shoots unarmed black man dead in Arizona
- Thread starter Renzoku
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boiled goose
good with gravy
See. Why the fuck would he chase someone by himself down when he is already complying? It is not a game of fucking tag. OF COURSE THERE WILL BE A STRUGGLE IF YOU TRY TO PHYSICALLY SUBMIT SOMEONE NOT COMPLYING.
Once there is an altercation that is physical of course the cop wil have to shoot. I thought he had a gun. He was punching me in the face and I feared for my life. He reached for my guj. Etc etc etc etc.
The police should be trained to De escalate and avoid violence unless required.
Running away from the police. Even resisting arrest should not be a fucking death sentence.
Chie Satonaka
Member
My responses were in response to other people's responses. Kinda how replying to someone works. Maybe you should read them.
Cops should be fewer? Are you serious? I can mug you with almost 0% chance of ever getting caught because of how few cops we have. There is a LOT more crime than cops can handle as is right now in this country and you want to cut the numbers down further? I want to live in whatever utopia you live in.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Wow, gotta love the condescending posts. It's pretty pathetic that your posts in this thread have been nothing but insulting others when you're not even following the thread. Nice.
If only that was what you were saying instead of:
"Cops should wait until they're already dead to use lethal force"
"I have never even thought about how I would react to a gun being reached for to kill me"
"I'm going to completely ignore the fact that this cop struggled with the guy multiple times and waited until the last second when he had no choice but defend himself"
"I'm also going to analyze this in detail from my computer chair after-the-fact and ignore the fact he was in a possibly life or death situation that lasted seconds"
"America is dumb because America"
Chie Satonaka
Member
I'm not being condescending. You asked me a question and I answered. My first post might have been snarky, but it was in response to the full stop entrenchment of cop defense that happens, which is not unlike the attitude of grand jurors in recent events. My position was explained as such, and my observations are relevant.
I'm sorry if that bothers you.
I don't ever protect police when an innocent citizen gets killed, like the guy who was shot while walking around with a toy BB gun in the store. But I'm also not about to shed a tear when some shit low-life drug dealer gets shot while attempting to flee. I see nothing wrong with what the cop did here. He tried to use reasonable force to arrest him, he give him an opportunity to give up safely, the guy wanted to make it hard, and he died for it. I don't fucking care.
I think we should find a solution that doesn't (whether intentionally or not) encourage people to run away from the police/resist arrest. The goal is to reduce fatalities AND reduce crime. I know it's not your intention to encourage people to resist arrest, but I've just recently heard a lot of "well they should've just let the guy go" [this was heard at a local get-together with friends and is in response to several different cases]. It just seems like such a bizarre argument to make. "Well, he committed a crime but they should've just let him go." I think a better solution is to equip the police with cameras, encourage compliance of police orders by citizens, and hold both police and citizens fully accountable for their actions.
They are trained to de escalate. But there's only so much you can do.
So you think if someone runs away from the cops the cop shouldn't chase them? Once the suspect seems non compliant just let them go?
I don't understand what you wanted the cop to do in this situation. Given what he's saying is true, please walk me through what you would have done.
BossLackey
Gold Member
If you're trying to imply that's what I was saying with my thread yesterday, you have brain damage.
O.v.e.rlord
Banned
Snap, Crakle, Pop! This is one heck of a ruling and I can see where it applies in a case such as this. I think this paragraph hits home the most though. (Man the supreme court is awesome!)
bobawesome
Member
Thank goodness everything went fine, then.
Chie Satonaka
Member
You've made that clear.
I'm not going to say that the person made the right choices. It's unfortunate though that the end result of this is an unarmed person being dead and you don't care. We should strive to be better than that, and just because he made the wrong choices doesn't mean that their life is forefit.
As an aside, I don't recall your posts on the BB gun situation in Walmart. Since you brought it up, how do you feel that those officers should be punished?
Not trying to pick a fight with you, I'm legitimately curious. Hopefully this isn't too much of a derail.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Quote me.
Quote me.
Quote me and quote the exact comment in the story where the cop was ever forced to defend himself.
Quote me.
Well you're doing a stand up job proving that yourself.
You can quote me on that.
You know who else routinely defends shooting people for resisting the police?
The guy in your avatar.
O.v.e.rlord
Banned
Besides the lose of life, doesn't that person have a family or friends that may worry about that officer's well being let alone the community he serves?
It's been ruff in AZ for officers. I recall one week where in three officers lost their lives. It sucks that person lost their life but I'm glad that the officer wasn't grievously hurt as well.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
He seriously clipped those parts out and then added them back in after he was caught/called out?
I don't recall the particulars of that case or know if any new details came out, but from what I remember I would say that the person who ordered open fire should be charged with manslaughter and the entire police force should be thoroughly investigated/ charged as seen fit. That was one of the post egregious cases of police becoming too militerized that I've seen, along with the 12 year old boy who was just killed.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Whoosh. I consolidated your statements, they're not verbatim.
How am I proving that America is dumb? By making a post on the internet calling you out on your BS, while living in America? Interesting conclusion.
Not that it really matters; I reside in Best Korea.
Im sorry but "reaching for a gun" is the most vague statements ever. Its literally in the police manual for what to say after you shoot someone. If you look at any police shooting ever its going to have the officer saying "the guy was reaching for a gun".
We have to have higher standards for these officers because clearly its not working.
We have to have higher standards for these officers because clearly its not working.
Carnby
Member
therockclapping.gif
adamsappel
Member
The cop always believes you have a gun.
And that there is always a weapon on the scene of any call. (officer weapon counts)
No, because they fear said person may use the gun to take an officer's or someone else's life.
Shake Appeal
Member
Can you explain how British criminals are different "types" to US criminals?
The completely different gun laws are the point. America is the only developed country that struggles with this for a reason.
US cops get shot at more often than British constables and England if I am not mistaken leads all European countries in violent crimes.
I agree, it all comes back to guns. Laws, access and intent to use is the issue here.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
The guy the cop shot, he seemed more concerned with the drugs in his pocket. He was going to go to jail anyway, because there was an illegal firearm in the vehicle and other drugs.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
These posts are frightening, like "without believing in God, we could just murder everyone!"
And you're also telling the opposite story than our lowering crime rate.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
aygomyownroad
Member
The police's job just now in America is under so much scrutiny especially when there is African American suspects involved.
The guy resisted arrest, fled and then still put up a fight. Had he submitted them the outcome Would be different. He knew that with drugs in his vehicle and a semi automatic weapon he was facing jail time and tried to run he made a fatal mistake.
The police officer called for back up tried to get him to surrender and chased him to arrest him. He has noticed the suspect had out his hands towards his waistline in the car and thought he felt a fun handle when trying to restrain the suspect and once the suspect had tried to break free the officer had to make a snap decision to save his own life which he thought was in danger. We will hopefully never be in this situation but he didn't have time to think twice.
There has been a lot going on in America, police officers are being scrutinised and rightly so. But in this occasion I have to think the police officer has done what he can to bring the suspect down peacefully but has had to make a split second call.
It's a two way street. People have to be more respectful of The police, they need to do what they are ordered to, likewise the police need to be more careful and have a better attitude.
The guy resisted arrest, fled and then still put up a fight. Had he submitted them the outcome Would be different. He knew that with drugs in his vehicle and a semi automatic weapon he was facing jail time and tried to run he made a fatal mistake.
The police officer called for back up tried to get him to surrender and chased him to arrest him. He has noticed the suspect had out his hands towards his waistline in the car and thought he felt a fun handle when trying to restrain the suspect and once the suspect had tried to break free the officer had to make a snap decision to save his own life which he thought was in danger. We will hopefully never be in this situation but he didn't have time to think twice.
There has been a lot going on in America, police officers are being scrutinised and rightly so. But in this occasion I have to think the police officer has done what he can to bring the suspect down peacefully but has had to make a split second call.
It's a two way street. People have to be more respectful of The police, they need to do what they are ordered to, likewise the police need to be more careful and have a better attitude.
Exactly. This guy did all sorts of things wrong, but what was the point? Was there any evidence that he was a danger to others? If not, just take the chance and let him get away if that's what it comes to. Oh well. Better then ending someone's life. It's not a game. Cops shouldn't always behave like a petty criminal getting away is losing the game. People aren't the enemy.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
This.
They had a vehicle, had an ID on the kid. Let him go and pick him up in a few days.
Didn't he run into someone's apartment? They could hardly leave him there.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
This man would have been charged with at least a level 3 felony if he was alive. I'm sure most wouldn't agree with the use of "petty criminal" or "kid" that people seem to love throwing around. You can feel however but the weird wording used by some to make this sounds especially heinous is gross.
Why do you keep referring to him as a kid? This wasn't a child.
I never said more cops would decrease the crime rate. There is already a high crime rate and you want fewer cops to deal with an issue that already overburdens current police forces. My city routinely makes the Top 5-10 most dangerous cities in the country so perhaps my perspective is different from yours, but I've had so many friends mugged and the cops literally cannot do anything because they're dealing with so many other crimes that someone putting a gun in your face and robbing you is the least of their worries. It's just common sense that fewer cops leads to increased response times for crimes. Anything else would defy the laws of physics.
I hear some saying that cases like these should always require officers to wait and get backup and others saying that we should reduce the task force. I'm going to go ahead and state without a doubt that a police force that did both would be laughable at best.
This post is ignorant of the world in which we live. The police force was put in place specifically to protect us and uphold the law. A smaller police force literally means less protection. If you want to bring up deities and whatnot, do it in a religion thread. That has no place here. What is your idea of the perfect police force? I want one that is actually able to catch criminals and respond to the needs of citizens as necessary.
Further, reduced crime rates can be caused by numerous reasons. For one, the article linked is misleading because the chart specifically talks about "serious, violent, and property crimes" while the article specifically talks about being safer from "serious crimes." That does not necessarily mean that our crime rate is lowering as it excludes other crimes. But even assuming that the article was talking about overall crime rate, it should be obvious that a smaller police force could lead to less crime reported (less faith in justice system, greater inconvenience of trying to contact police officers, smaller chance of catching law-breakers spontaneously, smaller chance of police officers filling out necessary paperwork which may be related to being overloaded with actual police work). That is not a certainty, but lower crimes reported definitely does not necessarily mean lower crime rate. A large number of posters in this thread will agree with me in general that numbers reported may not correspond to actual numbers in reality.
*sigh*, whatever helps you sleep at night.
Rocket Scientist
Member
How many cops die from confrontations like this? Versus how many unarmed civilians die from confrontations like this?
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Not seeing the problem with the OP.
Guy was unarmed, it's legal to have a gun in your car without a license in Arizona. The gun was never pulled on the officer.
It seems that resisting arrest is a killable offense to so many people anymore.
Guy was unarmed, it's legal to have a gun in your car without a license in Arizona. The gun was never pulled on the officer.
It seems that resisting arrest is a killable offense to so many people anymore.
God damn GAF hates cops. It's laughable, really.
How about when a cop tells you to show your hands you show him your fucking hands? How about not running from the police when they try to question you?
How about using your fucking brains instead of being stupid as shit and not doing the above?
Seriously, show me a cop killing where the person shows him his hands, doesn't resist and still gets killed and I'll give a damn, but keep showing me stories like this and I couldn't care less. Anyone defending this man or vilifying the police in this situation is an idiot who, like the Op, is cherry picking the race pimp headline white cop shoots black man angle and nothing else.
How about when a cop tells you to show your hands you show him your fucking hands? How about not running from the police when they try to question you?
How about using your fucking brains instead of being stupid as shit and not doing the above?
Seriously, show me a cop killing where the person shows him his hands, doesn't resist and still gets killed and I'll give a damn, but keep showing me stories like this and I couldn't care less. Anyone defending this man or vilifying the police in this situation is an idiot who, like the Op, is cherry picking the race pimp headline white cop shoots black man angle and nothing else.
Eric Garner?
What a load of ignorant bullshit.
None of that warrants an execution.
Unless you think thats the sanest and most measured response to deal with someone not willing to show their hands is to put two rounds in their chest.
The cop followed protocol and that protocol is absolute lunacy.
That's like saying it's ok for a teacher to beat the shit out of a kid for not doing as they say because the kid didn't cooperate. Idiotic. You shoot someone who poses a direct, immediate threat where force is necessary. Not because they didn't throw their arms up instantly.
These cops would be charged, fired, and possibly see jail time for these actions in most decent countries.
I see a lot of Grand Juror hopefuls in this thread.
This is my conclusion too after reading the last page.
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