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[International Iron Man]

Im not placing fault or advocating withdrawl. Im critical of the article and the terminology here because thats what the thread started out discussing. I advocate only for dialing down the rhetoric and speaking to each other like real people, which the fringes of both sides have seemed to drown out by being the loudest and most controversial voice in the room. Accusing people of things that they havent done with blanket statements puts them on the backfoot right off the bat (not just white people) and peoples tendencies are to dig in. Appealing to their sense of rationale will net a more positive response and move people in your direction.

Let me say though, that this isnt your or anybody else's job, you have no real responsibility for this, but how I see it is your choices are to get mad, sling blanket statements have your opposition dig in and have the discourse go nowhere....or put emotions aside and try to appeal to their sense of reason and bring them around to your side.

What's reasonable about racism?

You can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into. You notice that in the definition of white fragility, reasonable disagreement wasn't one of the symptoms.

 

[Skilletor]

Im not placing fault or advocating withdrawl. Im critical of the article and the terminology here because thats what the thread started out discussing. I advocate only for dialing down the rhetoric and speaking to each other like real people, which the fringes of both sides have seemed to drown out by being the loudest and most controversial voice in the room. Accusing people of things that they havent done with blanket statements puts them on the backfoot right off the bat (not just white people) and peoples tendencies are to dig in. Appealing to their sense of rationale will net a more positive response and move people in your direction.

Let me say though, that this isnt your or anybody else's job, you have no real responsibility for this, but how I see it is your choices are to get mad, sling blanket statements have your opposition dig in and have the discourse go nowhere....or put emotions aside and try to appeal to their sense of reason and bring them around to your side.



Goddatmoney, I think this touches a bit on your response as well. You say that no way of starting this conversation will make a change. I disagree.

There is literally no language we could use that would be acceptable to our oppressors. None.

People that say this act like this is some new thing. Like minorities in 2017 woke and were like, "Hey, it'd be nice if we were treated as equals. Could you please?"

Like, seriously. The phrase Black Lives Matter is controversial. How the fuck is saying that we matter a controversial statement? Not matter more. Not the only ones that matter. Just trying to say, hey, we're here, stop killing us.

 

[Psychoward]

Goddatmoney, I think this touches a bit on your response as well. You say that no way of starting this conversation will make a change. I disagree.

And how do you think that conversation would start? How do you think women, LGBTQ+ and racial minorities should broach that subject?

"Hey guys uh I'm a human being who deserves equal civil rights and to be treated fairly"

 

[theignoramus]

 

[D i Z]

This is why these conversations don't work. If you don't show up with a compliment, a good word and some cookies first, then any reason or a stiff enough breeze is enough for that uncomfortable feeling to set in. Any chance to hide behind a deflection will be taken. Any chance to hide from whatever truths that you would air in good faith for opening the conversation to begin with. Never the benefit of the doubt to be given. And more deflections and denials are what is to be expected for the duration. A complete waste of goddamned time.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

What's reasonable about racism?

You can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into. You notice that in the definition of white fragility, reasonable disagreement wasn't one of the symptoms.

This.


I find it ammusing that it's assumed that the rhetoric just went from 0-100 in a short span or something--like things haven't been bubbling over since the inception of this country. People start off nice. And honestly in the grand scheme of things, being called fragile is still nice.

 

[Bergerac]

White fragility is specifically this mentality when displayed by a white person. It is by definition when a white person acts this way and of course is not a statement about the global white community. If you're not one of the people acting fragile, this doesn't describe you. By definition.

Then what in the blue Hell does it have to do with the person's skin colour being white, rather than their rationale? If it's not unique to white people, it's called 'White Fragility' for what reason exactly?

Racism. There you go.

You guys really can't talk about 'defining' things or indeed racism, if you can't grasp the simple principles behind what makes those things.

Similarly, 'white racism' isn't a thing. 'Black racism' isn't a thing. Nor 'reverse racism'. It's just racism. Ironically, racism has no preference for the beholder. You can't use 'white' or 'black' or anything as a descriptor unless it's an ABSOLUTE, in which case anthropological history is a safe subject, otherwise, not really.

You have no need for the IDENTIFIER other than to discriminate. There's nothing racially specific about one individual that happens to feel racial fragility other than simple circumstance.

You guys have seriously lost your way.

I'm amazed at the irony that people (white?) are wading into a thread about white fragility,

and taking such extreme umbrage with the very notion that this might be a thing, that it's somehow deeply offensive to inherently encapsulate an entirely observed behaviour by the majority racial group in-question, into this innocuous and semi-satirical classification,

thereby inadvertently fulfilling the very notion and spirit of the idiom they're so passionately railing against...

That's because you're missing the point that tackling racism, by targeting a race for a behaviourism, shits all over any point you would try to make.
Better yet, you're identifying the umbrage with a race with this very statement... and you want to talk about irony?

 

[International Iron Man]

Then what in the blue Hell does it have to do with the person's skin colour being white, rather than their rationale? If it's not unique to white people, it's called 'White Fragility' for what reason exactly?

Racism. There you go.

You guys really can't talk about 'defining' things or indeed racism, if you can't grasp the simple principles behind what makes those things.

Similarly, 'white racism' isn't a thing. 'Black racism' isn't a thing. Nor 'reverse racism'. It's just racism. Ironically, racism has no preference for the beholder. You can't use 'white' or 'black' or anything as a descriptor unless it's an ABSOLUTE, in which case anthropological history is a safe subject, otherwise, not really.

You have no need for the IDENTIFIER other than to discriminate. There's nothing racially specific about one individual that happens to feel racial fragility other than simple circumstance.

You guys have seriously lost your way.

It's a level of fragility only displayed by white people because their skin color allowed them to be treated a certain way and conferred privileges based on their skin color, and so they get cagey when the conversation comes around to the privilege they recieved based on their skin color.

So their skin color has literally everything to do with it.

I'm guessing you think the concept of "fragile male ego" is sexism too, right?

Just say you want to keep your white privilege and like being at the top of the totem pole. At least you'd have being honest going for you in life.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

This is one of the most ironic threads I've ever read. God bless some of you.

White fragility is why I don't even bother trying to "convince" people. At the end of the day I want government to protect and enforce equality for all and don't have time to be knocking doors trying to convince folks. Give us equal access to jobs, education, and housing. Keep your feelings.

 

[Nafai1123]

Then what in the blue Hell does it have to do with the person's skin colour being white, rather than their rationale? If it's not unique to white people, it's called 'White Fragility' for what reason exactly?

Racism. There you go.

You guys really can't talk about 'defining' things or indeed racism, if you can't grasp the simple principles behind what makes those things.

Similarly, 'white racism' isn't a thing. 'Black racism' isn't a thing. Nor 'reverse racism'. It's just racism. Ironically, racism has no preference for the beholder. You can't use 'white' or 'black' or anything as a descriptor unless it's an ABSOLUTE, in which case anthropological history is a safe subject, otherwise, not really.

You have no need for the IDENTIFIER other than to discriminate. There's nothing racially specific about one individual that happens to feel racial fragility other than simple circumstance.

You guys have seriously lost your way.

It's unique to white people because they are the majority group in this country and have benefitted from systemic racism and white privilege. I'm not sure why that's hard to understand.

 

[The Salt Life]

This is why these conversations don't work. If you don't show up with a compliment, a good word and some cookies first, then any reason or a stiff enough breeze is enough for that uncomfortable feeling to set in. Any chance to hide behind a deflection will be taken. Any chance to hide from whatever truths that you would air in good faith for opening the conversation to begin with. Never the benefit of the doubt to be given. And more deflections and denials are what is to be expected for the duration. A complete waste of goddamned time.

Let's role play, don't come at me with good news and a compliment, you want to start the conversation? Let's have it now



just keep in mind also this conversation will be pointless because I know I'm already going to agree with everything you say.

But I'm curious what do you look to gain from a conversation with someone who just doesn't care? You two part and what changes? Even if you got through to them and this leads them to re evaluating their whole being and becoming woke, what does that do? Imo that seems like a waste of time, you have to target people of power. Small incremental conversions are not going to give you what you want because what you want can't happen in a day, month or a year. It's going to honestly take decades. So why waste energy and conversations on nobodies?

 

[MikeBreezy92]

That's because you're missing the point that tackling racism by targeting a race for a behaviourism shits all over any point you would try to make.
Better yet, you're identifying the umbrage with a race with this very statement.

Considering the issue at hand is white supremacy wouldn't make sense to target the benefactors of said issue?

 

[Frozenprince]

Whooooooooooooooo boy this thread.

 

[commedieu]

I'm amazed at the irony that people (white?) are wading into a thread about white fragility,

and taking such extreme umbrage with the very notion that this might be a thing, that it's somehow deeply offensive to inherently encapsulate an entirely observed behaviour by the majority racial group in-question, into this innocuous and semi-satirical classification,

thereby inadvertently fulfilling the very notion and spirit of the idiom they're so passionately railing against...

Honestly, someone should email the author of the article and show them this thread as a real time case study. Proving the point.

 

[Deepwater]

Then what in the blue Hell does it have to do with the person's skin colour being white, rather than their rationale? If it's not unique to white people, it's called 'White Fragility' for what reason exactly?

Racism. There you go.

You guys really can't talk about 'defining' things or indeed racism, if you can't grasp the simple principles behind what makes those things.

Similarly, 'white racism' isn't a thing. 'Black racism' isn't a thing. Nor 'reverse racism'. It's just racism. Ironically, racism has no preference for the beholder. You can't use 'white' or 'black' or anything as a descriptor unless it's an ABSOLUTE, in which case anthropological history is a safe subject, otherwise, not really.

You have no need for the IDENTIFIER other than to discriminate. There's nothing racially specific about one individual that happens to feel racial fragility other than simple circumstance.

You guys have seriously lost your way.



That's because you're missing the point that tackling racism by targeting a race for a behaviourism shits all over any point you would try to make.
Better yet, you're identifying the umbrage with a race with this very statement... and you want to talk about irony?

the self-awareness in this post is top notch. A1. Honestly, I don't think it can be done better.

 

[Frozenprince]

Honestly, someone should email the author of the article and show them this thread as a real time case study. Proving the point.

Tweet it at her. Gets more visibility that way.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Imo that seems like a waste of time, you have to target people of power. Small incremental conversions are not going to give you what you want because what you want can't happen in a day, month or a year. It's going to honestly take decades. So why waste energy and conversations on nobodies?

Because equality is a long game sadly. Basically the idea is to reach as many people that WANT to listen as possible so that they pass on those same ideas. Big reaching victories are few and for between (Look at the distance between Slavery and the Voting Rights Act).

 

[Nepenthe]

Then what in the blue Hell does it have to do with the person's skin colour being white, rather than their rationale?

American culture reinforces white dominance in the same way it reinforces the ideal that "individualistic freedom is the ultimate good," meaning people who just so happen to be born with white skin are going to be more easily indoctrinated into a way of thinking and living that is completely unique from the experience of basically every other ethnic minority, in the same way that any person who grew up in America is probably going to have different views about the value of individualistic determination than someone who grew up in Japan would, whose culture trends towards more communal modes of thinking.

Part of that way of thinking in terms of white dominance includes a strange and frankly infantile hostility towards ever being grouped together as an ethnic group outside of the most glowing of accolades, while black people constantly do it to ourselves either at serious conferences for the betterment of our communities or in jest in places like "Black Twitter" or the "Black Culture Thread" without shitting ourselves at the use of generalizations, metonymies, groupings and the like. I can openly say "Black people, we need to get our shit together" at something that was obviously on the surface only committed by a small minority that might not even include me, and for some reason my people don't tend to get offended and blustered and outraged. However, if a white person says "White people, we need to stop being so fragile over racial conversations," you get the painfully argumentative results in this thread because- if I'm to be honest- y'all don't have the cultural mechanisms in place to handle that kind of criticism.

 

[Frozenprince]

American culture reinforces white dominance in the same way it reinforces the ideal that "individualistic freedom is the ultimate good," meaning people who just so happen to be born with white skin are going to be more easily indoctrinated into a way of thinking and living that is completely unique from the experience of basically every other ethnic minority, in the same way that any person who grew up in America is probably going to have different views about the value of individualistic determination than someone who grew up in Japan would, whose culture trends towards more communal modes of thinking.

Part of that way of thinking in terms of white dominance includes a strange and frankly infantile hostility towards ever being grouped together as an ethnic group outside of the most glowing of accolades, while black people constantly do it to themselves either at serious conferences for the betterment of our communities or in jest in places like "Black Twitter" or the "Black Culture Thread" without shitting ourselves at the use of generalizations, metonymies, and the like. I can openly say "Black people, we need to get our shit together" at something that was obviously on the surface only committed by a small minority that might not even include me, and for some reason my people don't tend to get offended and blustered and outraged. However, if a white person says "White people, we need to stop being so fragile over racial conversations," you get the painfully argumentative results in this thread because- if I'm to be honest- y'all don't have the cultural mechanisms in place to handle that kind of criticism.

That last bit especially I think is why these threads always play out the same way. They've never actually confronted these things as a ethno-cultural group before, so anything and everything that challenges them or their status quo is an attack.

 

[The Salt Life]

Then what in the blue Hell does it have to do with the person's skin colour being white, rather than their rationale? If it's not unique to white people, it's called 'White Fragility' for what reason exactly?

The fact that you're responding to the whole "white fragility" thing is proving the point. The fact that you just can't accept that it's a real thing and trying to spin it, is based off fragility.

I mean I call it what it is, not being able to cope with the embarrassment people that share the same color skin as me has put on us. You kind of just have to own the fact that some of us are just not right in the head and further push white supremeacy.

I mean it's not like history didn't happen. It did, and it didn't stop in the past it's still happening today.

 

[Bergerac]

It's a level of fragility only displayed by white people because their skin color allowed them to be treated a certain way and conferred privileges based on their skin color, and so they get cagey when the conversation comes around to the privilege they recieved based on their skin color.

So their skin color has literally everything to do with it.

I'm guessing you think the concept of "fragile male ego" is sexism too, right?

Just say you want to keep your white privilege and like being at the top of the totem pole. At least you'd have being honest going for you in life.

Excuse me? You can go back, read every post I've made, and then point out ANY racial identifiers I've made.

Unlike the people I'm arguing against, I've not made a single race identification.
There are people arguing 'White people do things' and I'm saying 'You can't identify that behaviour with their skin tone despite circumstances' because that's racist, and y'all ignore the fucking point.

I'm not offended by the anti-white sentiment so much as I'm offended by the absolute lack of common sense coming from self-aggrandised 'astute' people.

It's unique to white people because they are the majority group in this country and have benefitted from systemic racism and white privilege. I'm not sure why that's hard to understand.

Said majority race being prevalent in North America is through the sheer circumstances of technological advancement in civilisation - white Europeans didn't travel to and establish North America because they were 'white'. That's circumstance.

Considering the issue at hand is white supremacy wouldn't make sense to target the benefactors of said issue?

Not through their race! How does that help? How it's any different to what they're saying?

the self-awareness in this post is top notch. A1. Honestly, I don't think it can be done better.

You've nothing to say, in other words.

 

[Adam_Vania]

”It's because [white people] think they are victims in a country where they have never been victims,"

this is anti-historical hogwash tbh. for one instance Look at the Know Nothing party, tapping into xenophobia against Irish and German immigrants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing

imo "fragility" is a charged word. in the society we live in it is like you are calling someone a coward. lol @ prefacing "why conversations fall apart" with this kind of gaslighting.

i kinda feel like it shouldn't matter what anybody labels anyone, what ultimately matters is the points being made, the injustices being spelled out. everyone has had a different experience, everyone is bringing pre-conceived notions and prejudices to the table. this is ok, our differences make us great!

education should be the goal of dialog imo. telling someone they are a racist does not educate them. they can be reasoned with. they are people. if you want them to trust you, you must be willing to trust them.

 

[Demoskinos]

Kaeprnick is the perfect example. Most passive form of protest and suddenly it is an attack on the military and veterans, still can't figure how

My favorite is people that say that he "shouldn't go about protesting this way" but then have no answers when asked what avenue would be appropriate for him to voice his concerns.

 

[D i Z]

Let's role play, don't come at me with good news and a compliment, you want to start the conversation? Let's have it now



just keep in mind also this conversation will be pointless because I know I'm already going to agree with everything you say.

But I'm curious what do you look to gain from a conversation with someone who just doesn't care? You two part and what changes? Even if you got through to them and this leads them to re evaluating their whole being and becoming woke, what does that do? Imo that seems like a waste of time, you have to target people of power. Small incremental conversions are not going to give you what you want because what you want can't happen in a day, month or a year. It's going to honestly take decades. So why waste energy and conversations on nobodies?

I wouldn't. This thread being an example of a situation were a conversation is ongoing. It's just presented here for continuation and further participation.
I wouldn't drag someone like that into it. I wouldn't derail it. But as you see, there are people that will take offense to the conversation itself and enter the scene to let their offense be known rather than sit back and observe. This is the problem with discussing things openly. We have a conversation right here that could be had with people that actually do care, but the common activity is to disrupt it.
Break that communication down. Outlaw the language and expressions used to convey intent and positioning.

A while ago there was an uproar from liberal whites about white BLM supporters not being allowed into the key meetings for protests. This behavior right here, is the exact reason why. And regardless of the actions being correct, to avoid the derailment inside the meetings, black people have to do the work ten fold outside of the meeting halls for every single situation to get "allies" to calm the fuck down and not make everything about them. Never mind the straight up high-jackers. Shit is exhausting.

 

[Frozenprince]

Alright then please, elucidate us on the proper way to criticize the white ethno-cultural advantages and privileges. Us poor, stupid minorities are just too caught up in our HATE and RACISM to know better.

 

[theignoramus]

this is anti-historical hogwash tbh. for one instance Look at the Know Nothing party, tapping into xenophobia against Irish and German immigrants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing

imo "fragility" is a charged word. in the society we live in it is like you are calling someone a coward. lol @ prefacing "why conversations fall apart" with this kind of gaslighting.

i kinda feel like it shouldn't matter what anybody labels anyone, what ultimately matters is the points being made, the injustices being spelled out. everyone has had a different experience, everyone is bringing pre-conceived notions and prejudices to the table. this is ok, our differences make us great!

education should be the goal of dialog imo. telling someone they are a racist does not educate them. they can be reasoned with. they are people. if you want them to trust you, you must be willing to trust them.

Did those ethnic groups benefit from post WW2 affirmative action programs or nah?

 

[Nepenthe]

Skin colour has NOTHING to do with it. Skin colour does not determine a person's rationale. It does not 'tell them' what to think. It's environment.

What happens when the environment says one skin color is better than all others? And how do you change the environment without talking to the people who cultivate it?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Is Bergerac basically coming into a thread about the phenomena of White Fragility and arguing "I don't see color and neither should you?"

 

[Nafai1123]

Said majority race being prevalent in North America is through the sheer circumstances of technological advancement in civilisation - white Europeans didn't travel to and establish North America because they were 'white'. That's circumstance.

Circumstance is irrelevant to the argument though. It doesn't matter why they came here or why they are a majority, what matters is that they ARE the majority, and have benefitted from being in that position of power in this country, largely through outright racism in a historical context, and systemic racism in a modern context.

 

[Adam_Vania]

Did those ethnic groups benefit from post WW2 affirmative action programs or nah?

i don't know and don't see how it's relevant. every group has its own unique history and its important to be mindful of that AT ALL TIMES. what is the point you are trying to make? some olympics of privilege?

 

[Frozenprince]

Is Bergerac basically coming into a thread about the phenomena of White Fragility and arguing "I don't see color and neither should you?"

I mean this is basically how these threads always go. "Racism is all just bad parenting" etc etc.

I've been hearing "they're all dying out" my whole life now.

Maybe one day some of them will start to die out.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

education should be the goal of dialog imo. telling someone they are a racist does not educate them. they can be reasoned with. they are people. if you want them to trust you, you must be willing to trust them.

That not how any of this works though. There's no neutral discourse here. We're literally discussing a power dynamic that leans one side over the other. No matter how you speak 8/10 you won't be heard.

Not through their race! How does that help? How it's any different to what they're saying?

Well for one, the power dynamics Whites and Minorities needs to always be addressed and in mind when having these conversations. You have to point out things like white privilege and fragility. You're literally taking the race out of Racism and its actually pretty funny all things considered.

 

[Htown]

This thread is proof positive once again that the single most important element of race-based discussion in America is white people's feelings.

 

[Frozenprince]

This thread is proof positive once again that the single most important element of race-based discussion in America is white people's feelings.

If only we had a term for that. Some sort of, idk, catch all descriptor that we could use to codify that.

Man I can't think of a good one.

 

[Nafai1123]

i don't know and don't see how it's relevant. every group has its own unique history and its important to be mindful of that AT ALL TIMES. what is the point you are trying to make? some olympics of privilege?

It's relevant because those minority groups are no longer minority groups. They've been included into the all-encompassing "white" racial group, and have benefitted along with all others in that group.

 

[theignoramus]

i don't know and don't see how it's relevant. every group has its own unique history and its important to be mindful of that AT ALL TIMES. what is the point you are trying to make? some olympics of privilege?

Those groups havnt been victimised in any collective sense since WW2. And even while they were being victimised by Anglo White supremacists, they still found time to shit on Black folk whenever they could.

 

[Bergerac]

American culture reinforces white dominance in the same way it reinforces the ideal that "individualistic freedom is the ultimate good," meaning people who just so happen to be born with white skin are going to be more easily indoctrinated into a way of thinking and living that is completely unique from the experience of basically every other ethnic minority, in the same way that any person who grew up in America is probably going to have different views about the value of individualistic determination than someone who grew up in Japan would, whose culture trends towards more communal modes of thinking.

Part of that way of thinking in terms of white dominance includes a strange and frankly infantile hostility towards ever being grouped together as an ethnic group outside of the most glowing of accolades, while black people constantly do it to ourselves either at serious conferences for the betterment of our communities or in jest in places like "Black Twitter" or the "Black Culture Thread" without shitting ourselves at the use of generalizations, metonymies, groupings and the like. I can openly say "Black people, we need to get our shit together" at something that was obviously on the surface only committed by a small minority that might not even include me, and for some reason my people don't tend to get offended and blustered and outraged. However, if a white person says "White people, we need to stop being so fragile over racial conversations," you get the painfully argumentative results in this thread because- if I'm to be honest- y'all don't have the cultural mechanisms in place to handle that kind of criticism.

The fact that you're responding to the whole "white fragility" thing is proving the point. The fact that you just can't accept that it's a real thing and trying to spin it, is based off fragility.

I mean I call it what it is, not being able to cope with the embarrassment people that share the same color skin as me has put on us. You kind of just have to own the fact that some of us are just not right in the head and further push white supremeacy.

I mean it's not like history didn't happen. It did, and it didn't stop in the past it's still happening today.

If I'm telling you people that I believe that there are no 'white behaviourisms' why would I react with 'White Fragility'? You have all missed my point:

I'm not saying 'Ew don't blame me for being white'.

What I am saying, is that if you identify this as 'White Fragility' you are creating a circlejerk and not a solution. It doesn't get us anywhere.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

That last bit especially I think is why these threads always play out the same way. They've never actually confronted these things as a ethno-cultural group before, so anything and everything that challenges them or their status quo is an attack.

Can't speak for everyone I guess but most white ethno-groups don't see themselves as "White" when compared to other white people (outside of real hardliners who definite themselves by purity or some dumb shit like that). Myself, for instance, I don't see myself as a blanket white person. I'm an American of primarily Irish and French-Lebanese decent. Most other white people probably have a similar answer which is why a lot of Europeans probably take umbrage at the label. Unified "whiteness" is actually a fairly modern phenomenon, I'd venture that America might actually been the first modern country where the color of one's skin mattered as much or more than their geographical or religious heritage. And even that took time to parse out for some groups.

So yeah, there aren't really a whole lot of wholesale "white" cultural values that aren't generic WASP bullshit that most people don't care about. It's either cultural geographic stuff that most Americans are pretty far removed from or American-specific stuff that is usually shared with most members of other ethno-American groups in those particular regions....other than skin color. That's still the big divide. And, as I said, the value in my experience that most whites put on whiteness only goes so far as in it separates them from PoC. Sadly that is starting to reverse with tensions on the rise and certain shitty groups getting louder.

 

[Frozenprince]

If I'm telling you people that I believe that there are no 'white behaviourisms' why would I react with 'White Fragility'? You have all missed my point:

I'm not saying 'Ew don't blame me for being white'.

What I am saying, is that if you identify this as 'White Fragility' you are creating a circlejerk and not a solution. It doesn't get us anywhere.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

If I'm telling you people that I believe that there are no 'white behaviourisms' why would I react with 'White Fragility'? You have all missed my point:

I'm not saying 'Ew don't blame me for being white'.

What I am saying, is that if you identify this as 'White Fragility' you are creating a circlejerk and not a solution. It doesn't get us anywhere.

I can say the sky is green, doesn't mean its true...

 

[Bergerac]

Is Bergerac basically coming into a thread about the phenomena of White Fragility and arguing "I don't see color and neither should you?"

Are you making shit up?

In this thread, obviously, but I did find this funny.

I can say the sky is green, doesn't mean its true...

That... doesn't change the context of my sentence.

 

[Deepwater]

.

You can't have a fruitful discussion of racism without using racial identifiers. To object to that fact means you just don't want to own up to your race's responsibility in historical or contemporary racist structures.

 

[Nepenthe]

What I am saying, is that if you identify this as 'White Fragility' you are creating a circlejerk and not a solution. It doesn't get us anywhere.

The identification of white fragility isn't meant to be a end-all solution to anything just like you being in your feelings isn't actually paving the way for Unity™ either. It's meant to put a name to a centuries' long cultural phenomenon in order to educate people about the broader world around them and prepare them for the very attitude you're displaying.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Are you making shit up?

It seems to be the thrust of your argument

 

[Frozenprince]

The identification of white fragility isn't meant to be a end-all solution to anything just like you being in your feelings isn't actually paving the way for Unity™ either. It's meant to put a name to a centuries' long cultural phenomenon in order to educate people about the broader world around them and prepare them for the very attitude you're displaying.

It's kinda surreal really.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

This is why these conversations don't work. If you don't show up with a compliment, a good word and some cookies first, then any reason or a stiff enough breeze is enough for that uncomfortable feeling to set in. Any chance to hide behind a deflection will be taken. Any chance to hide from whatever truths that you would air in good faith for opening the conversation to begin with. Never the benefit of the doubt to be given. And more deflections and denials are what is to be expected for the duration. A complete waste of goddamned time.

In a real world, one on one conversation, sure, but on GAF this conversation is causing the topic to receive attention that it otherwise wouldn't.

I mean, I wouldn't put it past Frozenprince to post sassy reactions into the void for 600 posts, but realistically, this thread would have died on page one if people on both sides weren't coming to the table and arguing about it.

Instead, a topic about white fragility has almost 40,000 views now. That doesn't seem like a complete waste of time to me.

 

[Frozenprince]

In a real world, one on one conversation, sure, but on GAF this conversation is causing the topic to receive attention that it otherwise wouldn't.

I mean, I wouldn't put it past Frozenprince to post sassy reactions into the void for 600 posts, but realistically, this thread would have died on page one if people on both sides weren't coming to the table and arguing about it.

Instead, a topic about white fragility has almost 40,000 views now. That doesn't seem like a complete waste of time to me.

Good sir, you wound me.

I can get to at least 1000.

 

[Nafai1123]

If I'm telling you people that I believe that there are no 'white behaviourisms' why would I react with 'White Fragility'? You have all missed my point:

I'm not saying 'Ew don't blame me for being white'.

What I am saying, is that if you identify this as 'White Fragility' you are creating a circlejerk and not a solution. It doesn't get us anywhere.

Do you agree that people are a product of their environment? Do you think that people respond to particular subjects/discussions based off their personal belief structure?

If the answer to those questions is "yes," then you cannot say there is no such thing as racial behaviorisms. Your insistence that race should not be included in the conversation doesn't get us anywhere, nor does your insistence that a persons response to a particular subject cannot be determined as a product of their environment.

People find your response ironic because they reinforce the very points being made in the OP. White fragility is not a form of racism, it's a form of response based on the subject of racism specifically in regards to white people.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

In a real world, one on one conversation, sure, but on GAF this conversation is causing the topic to receive attention that it otherwise wouldn't.

I mean, I wouldn't put it past Frozenprince to post sassy reactions into the void for 600 posts, but realistically, this thread would have died on page one if people on both sides weren't coming to the table and arguing about it.

Instead, a topic about white fragility has almost 40,000 views now. That doesn't seem like a complete waste of time to me.

Its never a complete waste of time tbh, just very irritating if anything.

 

[Deepwater]

We really need to put to rest to this idea that everybody (white, black or otherwise) has an equal part to play in deconstructing and "ending" racism.

Black people have been the abused wife for over 3 centuries but now the white husband wants to talk about our role in stopping the abuse as if it's not completely on them.

Do better.