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[Romulus]

Native Americans waged war, killed rival tribes, and even took their land.

African tribes waged war, killed rival tribes, and even took their land.

Etc, etc.

Didn't Europeans just do it better? And on a grander scale? I mean, that was the flavor of human behavior back in those days, so why is this guilt curtain thrown on Europeans because they had better weapons, ships, etc? Does that mean that if an African/Middle Eastern war tribe with the Europeans capability in logistics would suddenly have a moment of consciousness? "Wait up guys, we're too advanced to take advantage of these ill-equipped natives!"

The entire situation is packaged in a way to promote guilt. Lesser equipped people just got their ass kicked. Either killed or put in chains. It was the time period. Sure, there were peaceful tribes all over the world. But most Europeans were peaceful and lived in villages dirt poor. There weren't 20 million Europeans sailing to the Americas to enslave and murder.

 

[-Arcadia-]

You’ve had a little too much to think. (Tazers in neck, and throws you into the back of a van)

 

[FreedomOfSpeech]

Yah slavery and taking other's land is old as time.

Basically people have it so good that it can now be afforded to complain about the most recent victors.
I'd say it's something to praise.

But no, there shall be whining.

 

[Thing on a Spring]

You’ve had a little too much to think. (Tazers in neck, and throws you into the back of a van)

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Unfortunately, we seem to be transitioning from panel 3 into panel 4 right now. History does appear to be cyclical.

 

[Amory]

Unfortunately, we seem to be transitioning from panel 3 into panel 4 right now. History does appear to be cyclical.

Omg sexist

 

[Tesseract]

life eats life and war is god

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Native Americans waged war, killed rival tribes, and even took their land.

African tribes waged war, killed rival tribes, and even took their land.

Etc, etc.

Didn't Europeans just do it better? And on a grander scale? I mean, that was the flavor of human behavior back in those days, so why is this guilt curtain thrown on Europeans because they had better weapons, ships, etc? Does that mean that if an African/Middle Eastern war tribe with the Europeans capability in logistics would suddenly have a moment of consciousness? "Wait up guys, we're too advanced to take advantage of these ill-equipped natives!"

The entire situation is packaged in a way to promote guilt. Lesser equipped people just got their ass kicked. Either killed or put in chains. It was the time period. Sure, there were peaceful tribes all over the world. But most Europeans were peaceful and lived in villages dirt poor. There weren't 20 million Europeans sailing to the Americas to enslave and murder.

Yup. People are jealous that Europeans swooped in and took over because historically Asians, Middle Eastern, and Africans were the hubs for people and civilization. And places like USA/Canada had Natives that stuck to traditional lifestyles and got overran by settlers and also agreeing to laughably piss poor land deals. Not sure when, but somehow Whities in Europe got their act together and organized, and when the industrial revolution started in the UK (I think) it really upped the ante as Europeans caught on the tech/money train and took off.

Genghis Khan and the Mongol Empire at one time had about half of all Asia and Europe under its control and literally obliterated 10s of millions of people. He didn't care who they killed off. Whomever got in the way got nailed.

If anything, people and history tv shows love him as a leader who dominated and helped come up with clever military tactics.

Yet, nobody seems to care since Mongolia is basically a zero now.

 

[LoV]

Look at Chaz/Chop, they built a wall and had armed guns. These fools lack self awareness let alone can read a history book.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Neither race deserved to get culture raped and stomped but it's too late now.

Unless you're a Land Baron's child pretending to be trans on Twitter you really shouldn't feel white guilt. I'm from a poor family in the UK, my ancestors weren't cracking the whip.

 

[BigBooper]

Why not might makes right? I don't believe that's a very good philosophy as a Christian, but as a way to describe government actions, it fits.

 

[West Texas CEO]

Didn't Europeans just do it better? And on a grander scale?

Yeah, that's because of steel and germs. It wasn't a fair fight.

Let's see those Europeans try to conquer native tribes on their level. huh?

 

[Romulus]

Yeah, that's because of steel and germs. It wasn't a fair fight.

Let's see those Europeans try to conquer native tribes on their level. huh?

Europeans were very tribal years before that, bows, arrows, spears. Are you saying Native Americans/Africans etc are all better at tribal warfare? How do you even know that? And were they all better or just some of them? Be specific.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

Yeah, that's because of steel and germs. It wasn't a fair fight.

Let's see those Europeans try to conquer native tribes on their level. huh?

The intent and goal of strategy in warfare is not to create but avoid 'fair fights'.
The moors didn't give a shit about the europeans not being up to it when they conquered spain, and neither did the osmans when Constantinopolis fell into their clutches.

 

[West Texas CEO]

The intent and goal of strategy in warfare is not to create but avoid 'fair fights'.
The moors didn't give a shit about the europeans not being up to it when they conquered spain, and neither did the osmans when Constantinopolis fell into their clutches.

All fair points; I'm just saying the Euros are toothless pussies

 

[Stiflers Mom]

World War I would make you believe that they weren't.

 

[triplestation]

Why not might makes right?

try saying that 10 times fast

 

[triplestation]

oops

 

[DogofWar]

All fair points; I'm just saying the Euros are toothless pussies

Go outside in any Eastern European city and say that. Please stream it with a go-pro cam.

 

[Armorian]

All fair points; I'm just saying the Euros are toothless pussies

In what way? I doubt they planned to kill many natives with germs as no one at the time knew how that shit worked and any other Euroasian grupu of people would did the same, that's thousands of years of isolation in work. And takin adventage of technological advancements is just logical.

Euros were fighting wars for hundreds of years among themselves and muslims, I doubt you can legitmetly call them pussies (except for France circa WW2 maybe )

Plus European countries didn't start slavery (as old as human race) but they were the first to end it.

 

[West Texas CEO]

Plus European countries didn't start slavery (as old as human race) but they were the first to end it.

I get tired of hearing this. Listen, you can't claim to end something that was inexorably going to end.

That's like preemptively telling your boss you're quitting , knowing damn well you're about to get fired.

 

[Relativ9]

In all of human history one culture wiping out a weaker rival culture to absorb their lands, women, and resources have been the norm. Europeans have also been killing and conquering eachother since the beggining of recorded history (and probably before), but when we started doing it to people who had drastically darker skin than our own it's suddenly something we should be collectively feeling guilty about. Should I as a norwegian have to pay reperations to the British for the enslavement, subjugation, rape and theft my ancestors did to their ancestors during the viking age?

 

[Scotty W]

From my new book:

92.
THE ORIGIN OF JUSTICE.—Justice (equity) has its origin amongst powers which are fairly equal, as Thucydides (in the terrible dialoguebetween the Athenian and Melian ambassadors) rightly comprehended : that is to say, where there is no clearly recognisable supremacy, and where a conflict would be useless and would injure both sides, there arises the thought of coming to an understanding and settling the opposing claims ; the character of exchange is the primary character of justice. Each party satisfies the other, as each obtains what he values more than the other. Each one receives that which he desires, as his own henceforth, and whatever is desired is received in return. Justice, therefore, is recompense and exchange based on the hypothesis of a fairly equal degree of power,—thus, originally, revenge belongs to the province of justice, it is an exchange. Also gratitude.—Justice naturally is based on the point of view of a judicious self-preservation, on the egoism, therefore, of that reflection, " Why should I injure myself uselessly and perhaps not attain my aim after all?" So much about the origin of justice. Because man, according to his intellectual custom, has forgotten the original purpose of so-called just and reasonable actions, and particularly because for hundreds of years children have been taught to admire and imitate such actions, the idea has gradually arisen that such an action is un-egoistic ; upon this idea, however, is based the high estimation in which it is held : which, moreover, like all valuations, is constantly growing, for something that is valued highly is striven after, imitated, multiplied, and increases, because the value of the output of toil and enthusiasm of each individual is added to the value of the thing itself. How little moral would the world look without this forgetfulness! A poet might say that God had placed forgetfulness as door-keeper in the temple of human dignity.

 

[CAB_Life]

Well, most of the colonial, systemic-racism arguments show cracks as soon as you bring up indigenous/ Native peoples (something close to an estimated 50-90 million population decline in NA). That’s why no one ever does outside of a token land acknowledgement here and there. And you’ll be told you’re “pitting minorities against each other” if you do (but that’s the entire premise of identity politics: weighing oppressions against each other).

They’ve even changed the land acknowledgment here in Canada now to include “all people settled here or otherwise”. Utterly trivializes the purpose of reconciliation and whatever the establishment was trying to accomplish.

Point in a roundabout way is that most of these discussions on privilege and guilt ignore so many factors including the cruelty and basics of history.

 

[Romulus]

All fair points; I'm just saying the Euros are toothless pussies

This makes no sense to me. Calling an entire continent of various groups of people over the course of thousands of years "pussies."

 

[MetalAlien]

This is my hot take on colonialism. If you can take a country by force.... it's yours... you won it. If you can retake the your country...great, but don't beg for it. Every country is there because it's strong enough to fight for it.

If some other country could retake the united states and we are not strong enough to stop them... it's theirs. I have no problem with that. I will fight to my last breath to stop them but if they win... they win... congrats.

 

[Vicetrailia]

This is my hot take on colonialism. If you can take a country by force.... it's yours... you won it. If you can retake the your country...great, but don't beg for it. Every country is there because it's strong enough to fight for it.

If some other country could retake the united states and we are not strong enough to stop them... it's theirs. I have no problem with that. I will fight to my last breath to stop them but if they win... they win... congrats.

It looks like you were born hundreds of years too late then.

 

[Sam Hyde]

Is it too much to ask for a little thank you for bringing them civilisation?

 

[MetalAlien]

It looks like you were born hundreds of years too late then.

it's a universal rule that never dies.

 

[Rat Rage]

Humans are generally primitive. If the natives had the technology (a.k.a advanced weapons) they would have probably tried to conquer the world, too, just like the brits, the french, the portuguese.
There was probably nothing that could've prevented the colonization era in human history, sadly. It was a period of "just take as much as you can", until there wasn't more to conquer and a general balance established itself.

 

[EverydayBeast]

The color of skin has a stranglehold on peoples minds.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

Other than the fact that:

• Natives were nearly wiped out due to diseases brought by Europeans.
• Europeans were kept of starvation from the kindness of Natives.
• Natives didn't have the perception of personal property so Americans believed they had to right to claim whatever they wanted.
• Americans ignored the rules of the treaties that they signed with Natives.
• Andrew Jackson ignored ruling from US Supreme Court and proceeded to invade Native land.

You may be onto something!

Look it's possible to look at history as history without having to post-hoc rationalize all the bad shit that went down. If you want to continue down this road of justifying yours is what you can take then goodbye US cause the US being invaded by Mexicans is just status quo and you should stop crying about illegal immigration.

 

[JordanN]

If you want to continue down this road of justifying yours is what you can take then goodbye US cause the US being invaded by Mexicans is just status quo and you should stop crying about illegal immigration.

Those Natives are going to lose their land to Mexico too.
It's actually a very funny point a lot of people seem to miss.

Especially when you consider the USA and Canada are the one of the few countries to even offer the Native people free money once in a while, you would think maybe it's best to fight against illegal immigration? Since whatever new government/nation that forms in its place wont even spend a dime.

 

[DeafTourette]

Is it too much to ask for a little thank you for bringing them civilisation?

The FRAK?!?!

 

[Romulus]

Other than the fact that:

• Natives were nearly wiped out due to diseases brought by Europeans.
• Europeans were kept of starvation from the kindness of Natives.
• Natives didn't have the perception of personal property so Americans believed they had to right to claim whatever they wanted.
• Americans ignored the rules of the treaties that they signed with Natives.
• Andrew Jackson ignored ruling from US Supreme Court and proceeded to invade Native land.

You may be onto something!

Look it's possible to look at history as history without having to post-hoc rationalize all the bad shit that went down. If you want to continue down this road of justifying yours is what you can take then goodbye US cause the US being invaded by Mexicans is just status quo and you should stop crying about illegal immigration.

Again, there is no justification for any of those horrible things. Indians literally slaughtered one another, as did African tribes, they just never had the logistics to force project. Lol at the fact that native Americans didnt believe possessions, the Europeans were simply a more advanced war tribe with steel. You think a conquering African tribe would have respected that? Lol And you act like there was some mass starvation crisis throughout the American frontier were Indians fed poor Europeans only to be stabbed in the back. You're cherry picking instances to frame a weak argument.

 

[InterMusketeer]

"Might makes right" VS "with great power comes great responsibility."

The countries that colonized foreign lands and exploited its people didn't wield their power responsibly. Then again, that was par for the course at the time. Many civilizations used their unfair advantage to increase their power and influence throughout history. Then again, Europeans were claiming to bring civilization to savages and inferiors, so shouldn't they set the right example and treat the locals fairly, like their bible told them to?

It's all in the past now anyway. All that matters is how we move going forward.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

All fair points; I'm just saying the Euros are toothless pussies

Europeans had better tech because they lived in a crucible that necessitated technological advancement to survive. They spent hundreds of years fighting each other and once they started exploring, they rightfully dominated the planet.

 

[Tesseract]

The FRAK?!?!

that's sam for ya

 

[Riastrad]

All fair points; I'm just saying the Euros are toothless pussies

If we're toothless pussies, what do you call the people we dominated and enslaved for hundreds of years despite being heavily outnumbered?

And why does every conflict between whites and non-whites look like this? lol.

 

[Riastrad]

This should work.

 

[samporter]

Modern civilization was built on violent conquest and succession over weaker societies. There is almost nothing to be gained from apologizing for the past and doing so is the easiest way to lose sight of the future. We drive cars by looking forward, not by looking through the rear view mirror.

History is written by the winner, and unless we want to be forgottten, we must be strong and willing to embrace pragmatism over emotion.

 

[Lanrutcon]

I don't really subscribe to racial guilt, but I do live in a country where institutionalized racism was a very real thing (Apartheid) and our unemployment is very high. Every street corner and intersection has multiple people begging for money, and it's hard not to connect the dots. Those folks were basically screwed from day 1. Failing to acknowledge that while sitting all cozy and safe in my apartment would make me less of a man. I think it's real easy to spout bullshit like "it's all in the past" when you're not the one who got fucked by it.

 

[Petey-o]

So taking over continents and commiting genocide along the way is somehow justified because... they also fought each other?

K

 

[LoV]

So taking over continents and commiting genocide along the way is somehow justified because... they also fought each other?

K

Are you trying to deny evolution?

 

[Petey-o]

Are you trying to deny evolution?

Humanity does this literally constantly.
It's also a retarded justification for commiting atrocities.

 

[LoV]

Humanity does this literally constantly.
It's also a retarded justification for commiting atrocities.

Define atrocity? You weren't born during hard times when tribes were killing each other for land or survival. What happened back then allowed you to live freely in your home shit posting on GAF in your pjs.

 

[Methos#1975]

Yeah, that's because of steel and germs. It wasn't a fair fight.

Let's see those Europeans try to conquer native tribes on their level. huh?

Many tribal Europeans fought and won victories against a far superior miltarily and technologically Roman Empire, just saying. While not all of them were successful at this, some were very adept

 

[DeafTourette]

Some of these comments ...

 

[Super Mario]

Any narrative that comes from the left is a load of horseshit, ridden with double-standards.

Throughout time, lands have been conquered and taken countless times. The European white man ended up being the most successful at it. Today, we still use that as a political tool.

 

[Ulysses 31]

All fair points; I'm just saying the Euros are toothless pussies

Maybe you should look up the "Reconquista" and see how toothless euros deal with invaders.