Woah woah woah, maybe North Ridge has some closet racist, but you leave Keller out of this. At least Richland had the balls to have the confederate flag as their school colors.
White TX girls blame society for their racist rap about lynching black boys
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Woah woah woah, maybe North Ridge has some closet racist, but you leave Keller out of this. At least Richland had the balls to have the confederate flag as their school colors.
PackerinMN
Member
Most don't see the big picture at that age. I would have never thought that grown men and women would be discussing my future if I had made a stupid rap song.
teruterubozu
Member
I don't know, hanging people from trees is very specific and historically informed. These kids knew what they were saying.
Gentleman Jack
Member
It stands to reason that we should highlight the actions of the extremely racist, because there is no end of popular pushback against the idea that America is still a country corrupted by enduring racism. These kids internalized a lot of 'jokes' at the expense of minorities and think it's perfectly normal to be embarrassingly racist in public. This song is the background radiation of much larger problems wrought by the normalization of such views. This is superficial racism with very deep roots and awareness is the first step in exposing these roots. It's productive to examine how people react to getting called out on their racism: 'I'm a product of my environment.' That's what these stories do. Maybe Rawstory/DailyKOS don't do a very good job of going past the superficial details but at least we have some eyes open on the issue that maybe weren't before.
you never said stupid shit when you were young? I used to say fag and faggot all the time, because in my time it was cool and we used it to describe something we thought was stupid. It wasn't until I actually grew up and saw how hurtful the word was that I changed my vocabulary.
If you're raised around a bunch of super racists, seeing and saying racist shit is probably normal to you. That's what people are trying to say, we are a product of our environment, if that environment happens to be super fucking racist, can we really blame someone so young for following what they've been raised in?
Of course we would hope they learn from the mistake, if they still hold these beliefs by age 20 or 25, yea that's a problem.
Tawney Bomb
Member
That's messed up and they don't even sound all that sorry for doing it, just that it blew up in their faces.
No, it means that excusing people because of their upbringing does a disservice to the many people who do better. Which was my point. The educational system covers the civil rights movement, and here it covers Texas history which involves a number of racism issues. By fourteen, you've had ample opportunity to consider the issue. If you chose not to, or you considered it and still thought making a song with those lyrics was a good idea, it's on you, not the world around you.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to place the blame on everyone but the people involved, but it's a specious notion, completely discredited by their peers who aren't making up songs about lynching,
No, they totally want to hang everybody they hate. They were never taught anything about Americas history of lynching blacks. Never.
"(Racially motivated) Murder is wrong." isn't exactly a "big picture" sentiment.
I get what you're saying, but it doesn't have the perceived affect that you think it does. White people will ignore this. Black people already know white people can be racist as fuck. And the girls will be publicly shamed when their names leak, and the names will leak. Which will wholly be unproductive to them learning, because it then turns them into victims.
I'm all for fixing the entrenched racism problem in the US, but "highlighting the actions of the extremely racist" doesn't seem like it solves any problem. If anything, it just makes the racist feel like a victim when they get harassed, and the self-righteous mob feel good about itself. We need to start working towards an actual solution, but naming and shaming isn't it.
Edit: Damn, captive, you beat me to it.
Jawbreaker
Member
Racist jokes were standard fare when I was around that age, and I went to really mixed schools in NYC. It was mostly just kids reciting offensive shit to one-up each other or make the other one laugh. Remember, this was in very mixed schools in NYC, and most of my friends were minorities (black, Hispanic, Asian) which is where the bulk of the jokes originated. Obviously, the jokes had to have been learned somewhere and I'm certain everyone harbors biases they may not even be consciously aware of. This particular incident was in a majority white city which means it's far less surprising to me given what I heard growing up. Some of the most racist shit I've ever heard has come out of the mouths of my own Hispanic family, so I imagine they've heard their share living in an 80% white city. Kids are much more susceptible to repeating and learning the things they hear.
A part of me understands the sort of mentality that leads to people saying horrid shit in private (or even public), especially at that age, but it's also really disheartening to know our culture hasn't shifted enough to a point where it becomes less common. I feel like people will be more careful about what they do and say, but it won't change their biases as long as our culture doesn't shift enough to negate a lot of the racist attitudes that are still prevailing.
A part of me understands the sort of mentality that leads to people saying horrid shit in private (or even public), especially at that age, but it's also really disheartening to know our culture hasn't shifted enough to a point where it becomes less common. I feel like people will be more careful about what they do and say, but it won't change their biases as long as our culture doesn't shift enough to negate a lot of the racist attitudes that are still prevailing.
We have too much information and the world is far too little now to still be using that excuse. I'm sorry...these kids have access and the choice to learn that racism, is indeed, bad. It's not something that's new also.
Unless you live in an underground bunker....people nowadays are pretty much choosing to stay as ignorant as possible so that they can continue in believing in what they believe.
We learn at different rates...but you make the choice as to when you want to start learning. 14 is old enough, especially since they have access to the internet, to make a choice to not be racist..or at least start learning about it.
BTW...these girls excuse makes me think they're making a choice to be racist. It wasn't ingrained into them by their parents, but by outside influences? Spending all that time around parents who never uttered an offensive word didn't help them understand that racism is indeed bad?
Who is discussing their future? Their hateful recording is sparking social commentary about a serious issue that absolutely needs to stop being ignored or swept under the rug for any of a variety of reasons (mistakes of youth, it isn't that serious, everything isn't racist, etc).
I haven't seen anyone here say that these girls will never be employable or that they should be thrown in jail, expelled or even suspended. I do believe that the punishment (which was basically writing quasi-apologies) fit the crime. The rest of it is just including this example in a discussion of an extremely serious, nationwide issue. If (kids) are uncomfortable about potentially drawing negative attention for the internet finding out that they are racist, then I don't think that's a bad thing. Don't let the internet find out that you are racist. Don't spread hate. Don't post things that you wouldn't be comfortable owning up to.
Agree to disagree. You think a 14 year old knows better, I don't think all 14 year olds do.
Hmm, I never said they were without blame. What I ACTUALLY said was, I don't see how this being news is going to help teach the girls learn anything, and I specifically said in my first post someone needs to take them aside and sit them down and teach them about racism against minorities in this country. But please, feel free to put words in my mouth.
Gentleman Jack
Member
I don't think you're reading what I'm saying and keep trying to mould any response around your narrative that the girls are about to get bombed on social media. Let me simplify it further.
Highlight the actions.
Examine the reactions.
I don't expect racists to smarten up and learn as a product of this news. I expect more people to find their behavior unacceptable.
This doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be pointed out as much as possible, though. You can only ignor so much....
You're getting awfully touchy playing DA for these girls.
Something a stupid uninformed teenager would say. Kids are stupid what else is new.
I for one do not excuse their racism or put the blame on anyone but them. My question to you is this: what should be done? Naming and shaming doesn't work. Education apparently doesn't work. Shaking our heads and ignoring it doesn't work. Their statement is not one that shows self-awareness so hoping that they learned the correct lesson is probably not the best course of action. I'm actually asking: what do you think should be done in this sort of situation?
Of course we can. Otherwise how do you explain cultural change in regards to racism, if everyone is shackled to their environment, unaccountable and unable to change?
And 14 isn't so young that you simply parrot everything you hear.
Wait, there are people that are actually trying to say they didn't know about racism when they were in their early teens? Or that it wasn't really a big deal to them or they couldn't recognize it? Eh, I'm sorry but I just kind of find that hard to believe. My parents said racist things, especially my father and he's a minority, and my mother knew what racism was when she was a teenager, she knew her father was racist as hell when she met my father... I felt uneasy about it when classmates and parents said racist shit back then.
I don't quite understand. :/
I don't quite understand. :/
I think most educated people already do find this unacceptable. I don't think this news or highlighting racism does anything but embolden racists, piss off people who aren't racist, and does nothing to address the root issue. This is basic preaching to the choir kind of thing.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
The lynchpin volume 1
I grew up in the deep south and woefully disagree with this.
But how does one learn that they behavior is unacceptable? As I and others have pointed out, naming and shaming them is only going to make them feel like the victim which will only reinforce the behavior.
No, I'm just tired of the outrage culture.
I made a post similar about the pizzeria people and all the outrage people had. They didn't even refuse anyone service yet, they were getting death and bomb threats. Its unproductive, in the microcosm of the specific event, and its unproductive in the macro level where it A) makes people I generally agree with on racism and bigotry look like assholes and tangentially, makes me look like an asshole B) entrench the right/conservative mantra of "us vs them" instead of having a productive conversation about how to actually fix the issue.
"Niggas, Niggas, Niggas, can't you see?These lyrics suck, they arent just racist idiots they are bad rappers too.
I suppose you can get them to work with the Hypnotize beat
I just don't like you looking at me
And I just hate your dehumanizing stares
Hey, I'm not really racist, I'm just putting on airs"
This isn't simply a case of someone using a slur and not understanding the true weight behind it, or something like that. The song is explicitly about killing and lynching black people. Your comparison is entirely inaccurate. There's no other meaning to be determined from that sequence of words.
I think they should be punished by their parents and their school. The level of punishment is ultimately up to both the parents and school, but I'd think exclusion from extracurricular activities and grounding are certainly within the ballpark. Mostly what I think is that their view, that it's society's fault, shouldn't be validated.
Awesome! I don't have that perspective. I grew up in Oregon, which is lily-white (except for Portland...? Maybe?) and so never understood how actual racism was present and thought that the internet was overblowing it until I moved to the Midwest and saw it with my own eyes. Some of these things are experience based. Could you explain more about how people's mindsets and worldviews have changed because of highlighting racism? I'm genuinely interested.
Edit:
Cool. We're in agreement then.
King Tubby
Member
I, too, think that people should have their lives ruined for what they did as children.
capitalCORN
Member
Go easy on them, they're WHITE.
Why are you more tired of outrage culture than discriminatory culture?
Caping with lynching, huh. GTFO
I don't care. I really don't. If people don't feel like dealing with the consequences, stop being racist assholes.
It's not that difficult when you think about it. You're worrying about the wrong people. Feel free to cool it with that "outrage culture" BS, thanks. People who haven't had the opportunity to speak out and be heard when crapped on now do so, and have every right to express that. If you've got an issue with people being ticked off over assholish behaviour, that's on you.
djplaeskool
Member
Wait...so...they're purporting there wasn't racism all the way back in 2013?
:lol
:lol
Whenever parents/environment is blamed I always look at it as choice . I'm black but I grew up with my family members(grandparents/parents) saying off color remarks about certain groups. X-race does this Y-race does that. Even as a little kid I looked at my family funny whenever they spoke like that. Was I just an enlightened kid?Not really but I knew people were saying bad things about black people so it wasn't in my own benefit to perpetuate bigotry of any kind.
These girls knew what they were doing on some level but by not questioning it they were special and everyone else sucked. Why defend equality when that means you're getting a demotion?
These girls knew what they were doing on some level but by not questioning it they were special and everyone else sucked. Why defend equality when that means you're getting a demotion?
Nastrodamous
Member
You mean like what happens to the niggers who they are oh so ready to hang from a tree?
Black Republican
Member
maybe he was quoting a rap lyric?
King Tubby
Member
Did these girls hang someone from a tree? If so, then they should be locked up for life. It sounds like they sang a stupid, "edgy" song and are being punished for it already.
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
From a moral standpoint, they should understand by now the consequences of blatant racism or threats to minorities.
Will only.
Will only.
I see racist sympathizers make this lame ass argument all the damn time and it's complete bullshit.
No, that's not the ONLY possible outcome. Another possibility is that they'll try to understand other people's reactions to their racist bullshit and consider changing their attitudes and behavior. But if they don't, who really gives a fuck if they feel like victims? Fuck them.
Jawbreaker
Member
Racism will never NOT be a thing; there will always be racists (if not racism, colorism). Education does work, the problem is simply that it doesn't work well enough right now. However, as a society, I think we can take steps towards decreasing racist attitudes and hopefully eliminating systemic racism (ending the war on drugs would be a start). It's not going to happen overnight, but there are many things, big and small, that can affect perception and ultimately form racist beliefs, whether they're unconscious or not.
Poverty affects minorities, blacks especially, at a disproportionate rate due to a history of slavery and both social and systemic racism. Even if a person swears they aren't racist, they're likely going to respond differently in situations where they see a group of white people vs. a group of black people because it is their perception that crime is heavily attributed to people of darker skin. (What do they see on the news?) The word association that's picked up in studies is the same thing that's typically running through their minds, and while they may try to negate their feelings through action, the fact is, they still feel discomfort.
Lessening racism doesn't have a "one and done" solution you can hammerin fact, it's going to take a lot of work on multiple fronts.
So you're ok with the potential rape and death threats that they will receive when their names leak? Two wrongs make a right, right?
Yes, speaking from personal experience in dealing with racists, yes it will typically make them feel the victim. As I have said for the third time now, the proper response to this should be someone that knows the girls should sit them down and teach them about the history of racism in America. If you disagree with that, then I don't know what to tell you.
I want to ask you again.
Why are you more tired of outrage culture than discriminatory culture?
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