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Why Anyone Can Be Chinese - WSJ

P

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
A scholar who’s lived in China for more than two decades argues that Chinese identity should be cultural, not racial

Who is Chinese? The answer may seem simple at first: a person who looks Chinese.

But imagine a young woman born and brought up in the U.S. Her grandmother is from China, and she happens to have inherited many of her grandmother’s physical traits. She doesn’t speak Chinese or identify in any way with Chinese culture, and she thinks of herself as a proud American. When she is called Chinese, she forcefully rejects the label.
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Or consider my own case. Canadian by birth, with Caucasian physical features, I have lived and worked in China for more than two decades, speak the Chinese language, identify with Chinese culture and am now a permanent resident of China. But almost no one considers me Chinese.

Both of these instances point to the difficulty with a view that is deeply ingrained in contemporary China and at least implicitly endorsed elsewhere: That to be Chinese is to belong to a race.
Click to expand...

It certainly isn’t any lack of commitment on my part to Chinese culture. I’ve been working on Confucian philosophy for many years, and it inspires the way I lead my life. I’m told over and over that my commitment to Chinese culture is more “Chinese” than that of many Chinese people. At conferences in China, I often find myself the only person wearing Chinese-style clothing.
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That legacy still shapes attitudes today. But China has rebuilt a strong and powerful state, with less to fear from foreign bullying, and it has become a key player in our vast, cosmopolitan world economy. To my mind, China has reached a point in its history when it can return to a more generous conception of identity and embrace those who meet the cultural criteria of Chineseness.
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President Xi Jinping describes his broad agenda for the country as the “China dream.” My own China dream is more modest: to be viewed as a Chinese not just in my own mind but in the minds of my fellow Chinese.
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[chinese flag emoji] [man holding chin emoji] [chinese flag emoji]
 
T

The Kree

Banned
The author of this article:
bell_dan_0.jpg
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Wait is this guy angry that his geographically close peers wont' consider him real chinese because he's a white canadian

so he makes the strawman of a chinese woman raised in america who doesn't identify as Chinese for his defense on why he should be considered chinese

...
 
P

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
Looking at this non-mockingly for a second, his idea that the identify should be cultural and not racial could be right. It could be both of those, couldn't it? Lots of countries don't have race tied to their identity (e.g. "I'm American") but even if someone was 4th generation born-in-China, if they looked like the guy in the OP, they would get weird looks if they said they were Chinese.
 
Risible

Risible

Member
"It certainly isn’t any lack of commitment on my part to Chinese culture. I’ve been working on Confucian philosophy for many years, and it inspires the way I lead my life. I’m told over and over that my commitment to Chinese culture is more “Chinese” than that of many Chinese people. At conferences in China, I often find myself the only person wearing Chinese-style clothing."

SO much to unpack in that paragraph. I can't even imagine.
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
Chinese is a nationality, and you can apply for that nationality, so yes, anybody that lives there can indeed be Chinese.
 
A

Alienfan

Member
While I don't agree with all of it, I agree with some of what he's saying. People are more concerned with what country you came out of a vagina in, than the country you've spent the majority of your life in. It's nationalistic trash I disagree with greatly. If person X was born in Australia, but spent 95% of their life in America, and they have American citizenship, then they're American. Chinese is a nationality too, he's technically Chinese if he has it, I could be wrong though
 
I

idlewild_

Member
ponpo said:
Lots of countries don't have race tied to their identity (e.g. "I'm American").
Click to expand...

Don't know about that. I've lived in the US almost my entire life yet people always ask where I'm "really" from. My sister was born here and gets the same questions. It gets pretty annoying after a while.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
ponpo said:
Looking at this non-mockingly for a second, his idea that the identify should be cultural and not racial could be right. It could be both of those, couldn't it? Lots of countries don't have race tied to their identity (e.g. "I'm American") but even if someone was 4th generation born-in-China, if they looked like the guy in the OP, they would get weird looks if they said they were Chinese.
Click to expand...

I think this guy is trying to separate the culture from the race tho.

For example, American or Canadian doesnt necessarily mean white. You can be Canadian and be one of various ethnicities.

China though...the culture and race are tied together? Like, when someome says "that person is Chinese", a certain image will pop up compared to if you say "that person is canadian/american". And thats because the ethnicity is tied with the culture in that case.
 
B

Bubble Metropolis

Member
Yeah yeah, the guy complaining about being the only personat a conference in traditional Chinese clothing is offputting.

But if someone immigrated to the US, undertook citizenship, spoke the common language, started a family, and worked there for over 20 years, I think this board would be appalled at anyone insisting that immigrant is not actually an American. We have a board full of empathy for people being deported by ICE who put in less time than this guy has put into integrating into Chinese society.

People say America and they only see a country, people say most any other country name and they only see an ethnicity.
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
BreezyLimbo said:
I think this guy is trying to separate the culture from the race tho.

For example, American or Canadian doesnt necessarily mean white. You can be Canadian and be one of various ethnicities.

China though...the culture and race are tied together? Like, when someome says "that person is Chinese", a certain image will pop up compared to if you say "that person is canadian/american". And thats because the ethnicity is tied with the culture in that case.
Click to expand...

People of different ethnicities have been living in China for quite a while, so nah, it isn't really tied together. Chinese is a nationality, not a race.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
This is Dolezal-ish but the Chinese identity is incredibly inclusive and fluid, really defined by culture more than ethnicity or nationality.

If this guy's kids are raised entirely in the Chinese culture and speak the language predominately, I don't see how they could be considered anything but Chinese.

BreezyLimbo said:
I think this guy is trying to separate the culture from the race tho.

For example, American or Canadian doesnt necessarily mean white. You can be Canadian and be one of various ethnicities.

China though...the culture and race are tied together? Like, when someome says "that person is Chinese", a certain image will pop up compared to if you say "that person is canadian/american". And thats because the ethnicity is tied with the culture in that case.
Click to expand...

Yeah no, absolutely not. There is extreme diversity of appearance among Chinese people, because the country is so fucking big. Our stereotypes of Chinese people being all narrow-eyed and a certain shade of yellow don't always apply. Chinese people don't really peg appearance to ethnicity the way Westerners do.
 
P

PreyingShark

Member
idlewild_ said:
Don't know about that. I've lived in the US almost my entire life yet people always ask where I'm "really" from. My sister was born here and gets the same questions. It gets pretty annoying after a while.
Click to expand...
I get that even though I was born here and I'm white as all hell. My speech impediment apparently sounds like an accent these days.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
It reminds of these youtubers, who have been living in China for ages, but admit they'll never be considered "Chinese".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2_L71lFItk

Funny enough, some Chinese people on bilibili or one of the other services started attacking his channel and tried to report him to the police for spying. So yeah, Chinese people kind of suck.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Bubble Metropolis said:
Yeah yeah, the guy complaining about being the only personat a conference in traditional Chinese clothing is offputting.

But if someone immigrated to the US, undertook citizenship, spoke the common language, started a family, and worked there for over 20 years, I think this board would be appalled at anyone insisting that immigrant is not actually an American. We have a board full of empathy for people being deported by ICE who put in less time than this guy has put into integrating into Chinese society.

People say America and they only see a country, people say most any other country name and they only see an ethnicity.
Click to expand...

If he dressed like an Apache Brahe or Abraham Lincoln they'd be forgiven for raising an eyebrow. He was the only person in "Chinese " dress because his fellow Chinese don't dress that way anymore.
 
H

Hypron

Member
Bubble Metropolis said:
Yeah yeah, the guy complaining about being the only personat a conference in traditional Chinese clothing is offputting.

But if someone immigrated to the US, undertook citizenship, spoke the common language, started a family, and worked there for over 20 years, I think this board would be appalled at anyone insisting that immigrant is not actually an American. We have a board full of empathy for people being deported by ICE who put in less time than this guy has put into integrating into Chinese society.

People say America and they only see a country, people say most any other country name and they only see an ethnicity.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
BernardoOne said:
People of different ethnicities have been living in China for quite a while, so nah, it isn't really tied together. Chinese is a nationality, not a race.
Click to expand...

Thats what I meant

But I dont know the dynamics of how the ethnicities are split in China and if there are prejudices within China to speak for itm
 
F

FireBeaver

Banned
In that same retrospect I guess some Chinese people could be considered American. I mean whenver I go to China I practically seem like a foreigner from how different I am.

Still he makes some really odd points that sorta confuse me quite a bit.
 
C

cryptosporidium

Member
The Han are an ethnicity, you may engross yourself and become an ethnicity, but without having the racial features like east asians have you wont be able to be considered chinese.

Sorry weird chinese weaboo


Edit: were the Qing considered chinese? or were they always outsiders who dressed in chinese cloth basically?
 
G

Goofalo

Member
Bubble Metropolis said:
Yeah yeah, the guy complaining about being the only personat a conference in traditional Chinese clothing is offputting.

But if someone immigrated to the US, undertook citizenship, spoke the common language, started a family, and worked there for over 20 years, I think this board would be appalled at anyone insisting that immigrant is not actually an American. We have a board full of empathy for people being deported by ICE who put in less time than this guy has put into integrating into Chinese society.

People say America and they only see a country, people say most any other country name and they only see an ethnicity.
Click to expand...

Here's the difference, America, was founded on the concept that despite your origins, you can be an American.

And there is also a trend/habit of the West to fetishize the East, in rather unhealthy ways. And I don't know the guy, and maybe he truly wants to adopt being Chinese, but he's also the creepy white dude wearing traditional Chinese clothing, when everyone is just wearing clothes.
 
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