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[Twig]

The Tri-Force Quest just exemplified the basic design disconnect in TWW's overworld, it's almost as conceptully abortive as the halfbreed travesty of a game it's contained in. I have to wonder, do you experience physical pain being so hopelessly wrong all the time? :lol

What the hell does the Triforce quest have to do with the overworld?

TP's Hyrule is just as, if not more, empty and barren than WW.

You... really are an idiot, aren't you?

I wish I had remembered you were that TP fanboy before I started talking to you. It's really quite depressing watching you flail around like that.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

Might have something to do with the bland and boring zelda gameplay only working for people who are blinded by nostalgia.

Make the same game but call it something else and it would score a few points lower.

TP GR average 94.0
Okami GR average 92.8

My goodness. This man is on to something! 1.2 IS points.

 

[jarrod]

What the hell does the Triforce quest have to do with the overworld?

It's boring and tedious and illplanned. And the central reason for that are because the overworld at large is boring and tedious and illplanned.

TP's Hyrule is just as, if not more, empty and barren than WW.

Not hardly... there's just 3 "barren" fields (aka: hubs) in TP and any of the 3 can be traversed in about the same time it takes to get to a tiny island in TWW. Latter game additions like Twilight teleporting or Epona just makes them more of a nonissue.

TP's overworld is actually a maze like series of interconnected paths and hubs. It's closer to the 3D realization of ALTTP/LA style overworlds than any other 3D Zeldae. TWW's overworld is vast empty space dotted with tiny islands of gameplay, jigged together by a completely jarring and unfun mode of transport. It's pure fail for an exploratory adventure game like Zelda.

You... really are an idiot, aren't you?

I wish I had remembered you were that TP fanboy before I started talking to you. It's really quite depressing watching you flail around like that.

Must be physcial pain then, I mean otherwise why would you be so testy? :lol

PS: I'm actually that MM fanboy. <3 <3

 

[davepoobond]

because zelda is a fucking mess of a story

 

[jay]

because zelda is a fucking mess of a story

Don't you mean "because zelda isn't HD"?

 

[Salmonax]

What the hell does the Triforce quest have to do with the overworld?

It all contributes to pacing. TP's overworld may be somewhat sparse, but the visuals and terrain are varied and you aren't forced to spend nearly as much time in it as you are in Wind Waker.

To me, WW easily has the worst pacing of all the Zelda games. Generally speaking, the islands are just too far apart. It's like being forced to ride an extremely slow Epona that you can't dismount over no terrain. Not to mention that Epona handles like a dream compared to that boat, where you turn in giant semicircles and have to watch a 15 second animation any time you want to change directions. On top of all that, once you actually arrive you find that the overwhelming majority of islands are just filler.

The warp song helps, but still doesn't prevent you from spending hours twiddling your thumbs on the boat due to all the necessary fetching - finding charts, paying off Tingle repeatedly, the triforce hunt, etc. And my personal favorite absurdity: finding a chart that locates other charts.

The fact that they obviously scrapped dungeons that might have broken up the gameplay didn't help either. There are actual visible holes in the game, as when you are handed the third trinket just for showing up.

The visuals are lovely in SD and the story is a little deeper than most Zelda games (well, more the premise than the story), but it's a deeply flawed game.

 

[beelzebozo]

thank god there aren't more zelda clones. if there were many more threads as volatile and vociferous as this there'd be people ripping each others' heads off.

 

[Jocchan]

because zelda is a fucking mess of a story

Isn't using both Zelda and story in the same sentence some sort of oxymoron?

Spoiler

I kid, I kid

 

[stewacide]

AMEN!

Zelda/clones are my favourite genre by far. There were quite a few on the PS2 and Gamecube, but this gen so far all I can think of is Twilight Princess.

I'm extremely disappointed that the Clover guys are making a bunch of brawlers instead of an Okami follow-up. Also whatever happened to Chibi-Robo as a console franchise? Don't get me started on Rare

 

[Pojo]

What the hell does the Triforce quest have to do with the overworld?

TP's Hyrule is just as, if not more, empty and barren than WW.

You... really are an idiot, aren't you?

I wish I had remembered you were that TP fanboy before I started talking to you. It's really quite depressing watching you flail around like that.

The overworld in TP shits all over the "oversea" in TWW. It's as if they took all of the interesting parts in TWW and got rid of the mindless filler for TP.

What a jerk.

 

[stewacide]

The Okami overworld shits all over any Zelda game. OTOH the dungeons are nowhere near as good.

I'd love to see an Okami II, with improved puzzles (go play some Zelda games for ideas! ) and less-anal weapon/shield management. Everything else about it was great.

edit -- Also 'racing' for doors before they close is a bad/frustrating 'puzzle' mechanic which Okami uses about a hundred times: nix that. It would also use some more minigames: those it had were great (e.g. fishing, 'digging')... having recently played Bully made me realize how much I like *good* minigames inside games.

 

[Weisheit]

It all contributes to pacing. TP's overworld may be somewhat sparse, but the visuals and terrain are varied and you aren't forced to spend nearly as much time in it as you are in Wind Waker.

TP's overworld isn't somewhat sparse, it's completely sparse, and boring, and not nearly as visually pleasing as WW. There's little to do in between towns, and when you do get somewhere it's likely there will be nothing much there either (Kakariko Village....uh). In WW you could hunt treasure or kill pirates (always fun), I loved the sailing in WW, at least it was different, and in my mind much more immersive. Also, WW's overworld has no loading so it automatically wins.

 

[Salmonax]

In WW you could hunt treasure or kill pirates (always fun), I loved the sailing in WW, at least it was different, and in my mind much more immersive. Also, WW's overworld has no loading so it automatically wins.

In TP you can engage with enemies along the way, go after chests, explore caves, etc. - not sure how that's terribly different. And going after treasure in Wind Waker for me was just yet another obligatory repetitive procedure and animation to sit through.

It's a testament to the design team's ingenuity that you view Wind Waker as having "no loading," when in fact the travel between the islands is tantamount to minutes-long loading screens with some minor mini-games to keep you occupied while you wait. I like streaming as much as the next guy, but it's sort of cheap when the streamed elements are so ridiculously far apart.

 

[HolyStar]

Because, as great as Zelda is, all it is is "Go to a town, do some stuff, go in dungeon, solve puzzles" rinse repeat. It is fun, but unless you can come up with truly good levels to emulate, it will fail hard. Zelda is fun, but I just feel that exploring pagan temples just isn't something people want to emulate.

 

[davepoobond]

Don't you mean "because zelda isn't HD"?

if HD means Highly Decorous, then sure

maybe you should stop being Highly Defensive, since you're being a Humongous Douchebag

 

[Weisheit]

In TP you can engage with enemies along the way, go after chests, explore caves, etc. - not sure how that's terribly different.

Its different because I haven't done it in a Zelda game before......Riding a horse? Yep, did that plenty already in Zelda games. Engaging boring, incredibly weak enemies? Did that plenty too, the difference may be superficial, but at least it's something.

It's a testament to the design team's ingenuity that you view Wind Waker as having "no loading," when in fact the travel between the islands is tantamount to minutes-long loading screens

Not really, again, I liked sailing, and found it to be much more engaging than TP's been there done that approach. The constant loading killed any feeling of exploration for me.

 

[Oblivion]

Looks and fun.

If I wanted to play OoT again, I'd go play OoT. Both OoT and TP suffer for being not-fun. Boring. A chore.

And Wind Waker doesn't? :lol

The thing is, for designers with that sort of talent, why would they bother with a Zelda-style framework (or even bother with making "clones" in the first place)? There are many better styles to go with that would better leverage good design. That's why I'm not surprised that there are relatively few Zelda clones.

Whachu tryin to say?

because zelda is a fucking mess of a story

What does that have to do with a Zelda clone made by a different company?

 

[egocrata]

I'd say there are tons of Zelda clones, in a way. NES Zelda, to me, feels like the original "sandbox" game, with GTA et cetera being a natural progression of sorts.

Listen to him.

Zeldas are still out there. They just got bald-space-marine-in-brown-city-in-ruins and generic on us, sadly.

GTA is basically Zelda, with much shittier dungeons and puzzles, and a much more detailed overworld.

 

[stewacide]

Listen to him.

Zeldas are still out there. They just got bald-space-marine-in-brown-city-in-ruins and generic on us, sadly.

GTA is basically Zelda, with much shittier dungeons and puzzles, and a much more detailed overworld.

I got some of my adventure jollies off with sandbox games, but they're not just lacking for puzzles and dungeons they're completely devoid of them.

 

[Salmonax]

Its different because I haven't done it in a Zelda game before......Riding a horse? Yep, did that plenty already in Zelda games. Engaging boring, incredibly weak enemies? Did that plenty too, the difference may be superficial, but at least it's something.

It was a change, I'll give you that, and even one that I found charming for the first couple of hours. But as the insane wait times and repetitions added up, my opinion on it soured to the point of never wanting to touch the game again.

 

[jarrod]

It all contributes to pacing. TP's overworld may be somewhat sparse, but the visuals and terrain are varied and you aren't forced to spend nearly as much time in it as you are in Wind Waker.

To me, WW easily has the worst pacing of all the Zelda games. Generally speaking, the islands are just too far apart. It's like being forced to ride an extremely slow Epona that you can't dismount over no terrain. Not to mention that Epona handles like a dream compared to that boat, where you turn in giant semicircles and have to watch a 15 second animation any time you want to change directions. On top of all that, once you actually arrive you find that the overwhelming majority of islands are just filler.

The warp song helps, but still doesn't prevent you from spending hours twiddling your thumbs on the boat due to all the necessary fetching - finding charts, paying off Tingle repeatedly, the triforce hunt, etc. And my personal favorite absurdity: finding a chart that locates other charts.

The fact that they obviously scrapped dungeons that might have broken up the gameplay didn't help either. There are actual visible holes in the game, as when you are handed the third trinket just for showing up.

The visuals are lovely in SD and the story is a little deeper than most Zelda games (well, more the premise than the story), but it's a deeply flawed game.

Ugh, 1000% agreed! This bears repeating.

The Okami overworld shits all over any Zelda game. OTOH the dungeons are nowhere near as good.

Okami's great, and it's overworld is brimming with interesting stuff to do and explore... but the overall world design is basically a straight line and sort of negatively emphasizes the repetitious nature of the game at large. It's way too formulaic, even for a "Zelda game", which is partly the problem with most of the dungeons too actually. When you get near the endgame of each, I think TP's circular world design or MM's cross world design are both superior.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

The internets needs less N-tards sprouting "they copied, they copied, they copies" is the main reason i think............. and for me the games have never really be any good, i think the Nintendo fanbase has become accustomed to them and thats the main reason they still make em.

 

[Twig]

It's boring and tedious and illplanned. And the central reason for that are because the overworld at large is boring and tedious and illplanned.

Again. What does the Triforce quest have to do with the overworld?

Nothing.

The Triforce quest is a result of poor planning, time-wise. Rushed game, is all. The overworld is fine, and also happens to be far more interesting than OH MY GOD ANOTHER GRASSY FIELD by virtue of being something DIFFERENT. Could it have been less empty? Sure. Obviously they didn't learn from their mistakes, though, because TP is a huge world with nothing in it. Only this time you're on a horse instead of a boat. WHOOPEE.

TP's overworld is actually a maze like series of interconnected paths and hubs.

There is nothing maze-like about TP's overworld.

PS: I'm actually that MM fanboy. <3 <3

You'd think, being an MM fanboy, that you'd have good taste. But you pretty much fuck that theory up, don't you!

The overworld in TP shits all over the "oversea" in TWW. It's as if they took all of the interesting parts in TWW and got rid of the mindless filler for TP.

WW's overworld is worlds above TP's in every way imaginable. No exceptions.

What a jerk.

I'm the jerk? I guess you didn't notice that he started the whole insult fest?

Don't get yer panties in an uproar, now.

EDIT: Of course, Majora's Mask is the only 3D Zelda with an overworld full of all that is good and right in this world, so this argument is all rather pointless anyway.

2D Zeldas usually have awesome overworlds, but as far as 3D goes, MM is really the only one worth talking about.

 

[DDayton]

This is again reminding me that I need to go finish Neutopia, and then purchase and play Neutopia II.

 

[outunderthestars]

This is again reminding me that I need to go finish Neutopia, and then purchase and play Neutopia II.

man I loved those games back in the day.

 

[Gwanatu T]

Sphinx: Curse of the Mummy

best zelda clone ever.

Also see Beyond Good & Evil and Okami. Honestly if it weren't for Ocarina of Time, I'd like both of these titles better than Zelda.

 

[Woo-Fu]

TP GR average 94.0
Okami GR average 92.8

My goodness. This man is on to something! 1.2 IS points.

Newsflash: Professional enthusiasts can experience nostalgia too.

 

[Grampasso]

Soul Blazer, Terranigma, Shining Wisdom

 

[Slavik81]

In TP you can engage with enemies along the way, go after chests, explore caves, etc. - not sure how that's terribly different. And going after treasure in Wind Waker for me was just yet another obligatory repetitive procedure and animation to sit through.

It's a testament to the design team's ingenuity that you view Wind Waker as having "no loading," when in fact the travel between the islands is tantamount to minutes-long loading screens with some minor mini-games to keep you occupied while you wait. I like streaming as much as the next guy, but it's sort of cheap when the streamed elements are so ridiculously far apart.

It would have been fine had the islands been worthwhile. Most of the time, you'd travel through nothingness for 5-10 minutes just to reach a tiny rock with nothing interesting about it.

Windfall Island was AMAZING. Sadly, it was one of a handful of interesting locations in the entire game and not even the other interesting locations came remotely close to it.

If only the islands had been bigger and more intricately designed, the traveling would have been worth it.

 

[Meesh]

There are some clones out there...just can't remember the names...prolly because I never played them. Never played the clones 'cause Zelda does it best, not really interested in anything else similar...

Miyamoto crafted an excellent game/franchise abundant with what are now signature qualities.

*Incredible dungeons rife with puzzles, reminiscent in style by previous adventures, and yet rarely get boring. Case in point, the Water Temple in OOT...I've beaten it more times I can count...but I'm still as disoriented as I was the first time I played it!

*The bosses are memorable, if there was a mode where I could just play against the bosses, I would. They each have their own Achilles heel, and half the pleasure is using your new weapon against them.

*Strong characters, both familliar and new always carry the story with intrigue and mystery...and most of 'em are lovable too, they incite a yearning to be seen again...well, maybe not Navi...but I'd like a sequel to Majoras Mask, minus the whole three days to ruin thing...

*Hyrule, the mystical kingdom of fantasy is worth revisiting, even if you just wanna take Epona for a boot...maybe run over a few moblins...the escapist in me wanders the same ground looking for more secrets, answers to Hyrules past and it's inhabitants.

*The enemies, characters in their own rite, will sometimes offer a lending hand for a price...you never know who to trust. Thankfully, mowing down better looking moblins with each gen, with the same sword isn't tiring. Not for me anyway.