Are there really diminishing returns, or are the returns just more subtle?
- Thread starter cormack12
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XXL
Banned
I play older games all the time on PC. I recently played Deus Ex Human Revolution and it was honestly kind of shocking how little details there are in that world vs what I remembered. Doesn't mean it's a bad game or anything, but alot of older games are extremely sparse on fine details in the world. Where now the world's generally feel more lived in, if that makes sense.
XXL
Banned
Another recent example and I played them both within weeks of each other was Half Life 2 VR and Half Life Alyx.
I'll get this out of the way first, I love them both and I'm not sure which one I like more.
But Half Life 2 is again very sparse with fine details in the environment compared to Alyx. Alyx has like 10× the amount of stuff going on in that department.
All and all I think games are advancing and I'm not sold on diminishing returns entirely. But I also agree with your post above my original post about RT and things kind of wasting resources now vs the more thought out visual tricks of before.
We are waaaaaaaaaaay past the point of diminishing returns for graphics. And with all the stuff we can do today, we still have plenty of games without fully destructible environments, good enemy AI, or proper movement. It's why backwards compatibility is such a big thing now, in the older generations the leap from one to the next was so huge you never wanted to look back!
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I think that's actually a bad and good example simply because Half Life Alyx is built around showing off details and interactions in VR.
It's kinda the whole point of it.
Now if they make a Half Life 3 and it has those, you've got something.
But in general that sort of stuff has been on the decline for over a decade
Nobody is saying that games now can't match or surpass those levels of details, it's just that they don't unless that is the whole point of it or it's part of a game mechanic and can be rather static in a photo realistic world with indestructible/immoveable items everywhere.
But it looks pretty right?
Kojima didn't have to have Ice Cubes melt if you knocked them out of the glass and so forth.
And devs were pushing that stuff back then
But now devs don't have to put that attention to detail in their games that not everyone will notice as long as it looks realistic and nobody attempts to touch it.
But for every Half Life Alyx, you have 50 games with the interactivity of a PSX title.
And that's what I mean.
And I don't think diminishing returns is a thing.
I just think the tools are in the wrong hands
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digdug2
Member
I miss the days of games being developed with PC in mind, and then devs would port it to Playstation/Xbox after the fact... instead of the other way around. I saw that CDPR is considering releasing on PC first and then consoles later. I think that would be a wise move, really. If you REALLY want the game immediately, build/buy a higher end PC and then you can play it. Otherwise, you can wait until they optimize it for the lowest common denominator. And XSS is getting less and less capable by the day, so it may be a while.
digdug2
Member
Nostalgia and rose-tinted glasses can be a motherfucker. I miss the days of having to tune the rabbit-ear antenna just right in order to get Fox 42 to not be a blurry mess... but that does not mean that I want to revisit them. Some people want to live in those glory days though, and they'll spend hundreds (if not upward to thousands) of dollars on a 1993 Sony CRT TV just so that they can get the "optimal" retro gaming experience.
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charles8771
Member
Compared Half Life 1(1998) to Half Life 2(2004)
Leaps like that couldn't happen again because of diminishing returns.
Half Life 1 from 1998
Half Life 2 from 2004
Leaps like that couldn't happen again because of diminishing returns.
Half Life 1 from 1998
Half Life 2 from 2004
daninthemix
Member
And likewise, when the PS6 drops there'll be a collective shrug.
Azelover
Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
Is it really necessary to ask? We are at a point now where you have to place footage side by side to notice a difference. A few gens ago the smallest jump in horsepower could be easily noticed on screen without having to make a direct comparison.
Obviously, of course we have diminishing returns. If you still deny that I would like to introduce you to a mental hospital..
Obviously, of course we have diminishing returns. If you still deny that I would like to introduce you to a mental hospital..
SweetTooth
Banned
Yup, but I have always advocated for longer "console" cycles to make the upgrade more impactful.
PS6 in 2030 will be way better than 2028.
bender
What time is it?
Just wait until Sony release PS6 in 2027.
Fbh
Member
Compared Half Life 1(1998) to Half Life 2(2004)
Leaps like that couldn't happen again because of diminishing returns.
Half Life 1 from 1998
Half Life 2 from 2004
Yup.
Visual leaps where obviously much larger in the early days of 3D graphics.
In 10 years we went from Goldeneye (1997) to Crysis (2007).
A 10 years old game now looks like this
I wish the direction was more towards sophisticated AI and emergent gameplay rather than even more shit on the ground.
I find shooters harder to play casually because its a lot harder to pick enemies out of the increasingly cluttered background. Yet the totally destructible environments of that Red Faction game or R6 Siege....not nearly as widely adopted.
I find shooters harder to play casually because its a lot harder to pick enemies out of the increasingly cluttered background. Yet the totally destructible environments of that Red Faction game or R6 Siege....not nearly as widely adopted.
Liopleurodon
Member
bitbydeath
Member
I've never understood the diminishing returns argument.
We all saw the Matrix demo, games aren't there yet, and they can improve well beyond that too.
We all saw the Matrix demo, games aren't there yet, and they can improve well beyond that too.
Hawk The Slayer
Member
Graphic could still improve but I feel like the PS6 era would be the last step before it looks like real life. Like when u look at ur character models in the game by moving ur mouse/controller and compare them to cutscenes. You'll notice they look worse like in Rebirth, Resident Evil, and other games. So the PS6 could at the very least improve upon that where they'll look good all the time. I'll also want PS6 to improve more on the processing power so more things could process and function better in the game.
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