entremet
Member
Shame doesn't work. I agree.
Education does.
Look how many people think doctors are not going to put full efforts in the case of a life threatening situation if you're an organ donor.
Why are you not willing to donate your organs?
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Shame doesn't work. I agree.
Education does.
Look how many people think doctors are not going to put full efforts in the case of a life threatening situation if you're an organ donor.
Not really. There are plenty of people I wouldn't want my organs going to. Child molestors, people that have abused their body over the years ect.
Easy to bring out the selfish card, it's pretty much redundent tho. I guess you're selfish for not giving your entire net worth to Africa?
You are putting other families through much, much worse than your grandma fainting.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
It's awful what happened to your grandmother but I'm sorry, it still seems like a stupid reason to not support donating your organs. I assume in an ideal society where people all agree to donate organs that the collection agency call would have never taken place. The reason it probably did is because they needed word ASAP on whether they were in the okay or not. As far as I'm concerned the organs should be being preserved before a phone call can even be made. But I could just be putting saving other people's lives on a higher preference.
spons
Gold Member
Well, first...
Second, donating your organs requires minimal effort (just registration) and would require no effort in an opt out format that countries like Belgium have. You are employing a "cut off your nose in spite of your face". People shouldn't register because they should be doing more? That's not very logical.
It should be "OK you registered. Let's talk about what else you can do", not "Don't register for this thing that will save lives until you do this harder thing to save lives".
I'm only against the for-humanity argument here when it's used by people who don't do jack for humanity. I looked at this (my argument), thought it was the big picture and got lost in the details. And we can indeed have both being an organ donor and doing other good. I still think the priorities are totally wrecked, but being an organ donor is good that an individual can do. But it's not the long-term solution.
So to bring it back, are you willing to let an innocent child (say someone who's 12 and compatible with adult organs) die that needs your organs for that choice?
Just be honest with the answer, it's not a shaming technique, it's a legitimate evaluation of the worth of your convictions to the consequences of them. Or considering the ends against the means.
You are associating things that have nothing to do with each other. There's no logical link between the two topics.
GeordieMark
Member
Totally. Just reading through here and it seems fear and suspicion are the main reasons for people not wanting to donate, both of which are best tackled by education, not claiming people lack heart.
People that continue to abuse their bodies don't get organ donations.
The Incarnation
Member
backflip10019
Member
I'm personally not putting anyone through anything because I don't have any responsibility to give anyone anything. Stop trying to shame me because I made a decision.
entremet
Member
Former criminals are at the lowest priority of donor lists.
There was a high profile and politically charged incident were an organ went to a troubled youth.
Who later squandered that opportunity. That probably set back organ donations to at risk individual back many many decades.
RumblingRosco
Member
The long-term solution is lab-created synthetic organs. Unfortunately, research in that area was massively slowed due to restrictions on stem cell research in the 2000s, at least in the US. Thankfully, those are mainly removed now. Even if they hadn't been removed, we'd still be many years away from mass-producing synthetic organs, but I guess my point is, the long-term solution will be here some day if we continue to fund scientific advancements, so in the mean time, we should do the best we can with what we have.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
He's not shaming you because you made a decision. It's just the reasoning for your decision is nonsense.
You didn't, you confirmed my beliefs.
Yeah what about homophobes? Or racists?
Sorry but there are far too many different types of people in this world I wouldn't want my organs going too.
Now, if there was some sort of clause I could sign that ensured my organs would go to a 'good' person or child then sure, sign me up.
RumblingRosco
Member
This is like post-birth pseudo-eugenics. You basically want to select for "good" people.
Yes you are. You are personally putting whoever would have receive your organs should you decide to donate, but won't, through this. Someone out there will not receive an organ donation directly because of your decision. This is fact.
Yeah, I do. They're my organs I should get a say where they go. Don't like it? Get over it.
I don't care, not wanting my organs to go to a 'bad' person outweighs me wanting them to go to a good person.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I hope you don't consider yourself one of those 'good' persons. Because a good person would donate their organs without all these stipulations.
Read above. Because the "good" people don't get it because of your decision.
GeordieMark
Member
Who are you to say that? Its his reason and he is entitled to it. Get off your high horse.
What sort of analogy is that? You're losing nothing if you become an organ donor, unless of course if you disagree with it for religious reasons. I'd think having the option of literally saving multiple people's lives using things which you have no use for and refusing is more selfish than donating your entire net worth to Africa and destroying your own/your family's life. Besides, if someone is going to continue abusing their body and make your organ useless, they won't be getting your organs in the first place.
RumblingRosco
Member
There's nothing for me to get over mate, I just feel bad for you. You're too jaded to see how useful you could be even after dying. You have people here even trying to explain it to you, but you'd literally rather let your organs go to waste and let other good people die because you're afraid of helping a single bad person. That's just sad, and I'm sorry for you.
entremet
Member
And that's your choice honestly.
But it is a selfish and very pessimistic one. Notice I'm not calling you selfish, just your choice selfish. Big difference.
Your organ donation could also go to a small child that has no guarantee of a full life other than a lucky donation.
backflip10019
Member
It's my body. Why do you or anyone else get to tell me what to do with it?
Do you not make decisions based off of experiences? Or am I the only one?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Explain how his reasoning is good then. It's based purely on a set of poor circumstances and not any sort of uniformed one.
Edit:
As far as I see it you cease to exist upon your death. But regardless of that, I got the impression from that your earlier reasoning was due to a sad set of circumstances that affected your grandmother in an unfortunate way. If that hadn't occurred, would you still be against donating?
Good = my interpretation obviously. I'm not talking about some nationwide clause to be implemented here.
Yeah, he's entitled to his reason, and I'm entitled to give my opinion on his reason. His grandma fainting is hardly an ordeal to seethe over for the rest of his life. Especially when it manifests in this way.
RumblingRosco
Member
We're literally in a thread that asks "Why are you not willing to donate your organs?" and you're asking why people are discussing why you don't want to donate your organs.
Neogaf.jpg
No one here can force you, but there's no reason we can't reply to you with our opinion.
ClosingADoor
Member
That is fair enough. But I think the chance of your organs going to a good person is far higher then going to a bad one. I'm willing to take that chance.
And yes, if I get to a point where I have enough money that I can live a good life and then refuse to ever donate anything to people worse off because it might go to somebody undeserving, I would be selfish. If that money is useless to me - like organs are after I die - I would donate more.
There are plenty of arguments I can agree with that people have against organ donation. For example religious reasons, or not wanting a closed casket for family to say goodbye to. That is totally up to you. But with an opt out system, at least everybody is forced to think about it more.
In the end, only you get to decide what happens to your body. But that doesn't mean I can't tell you what I think of your reasons. You chose to join in this discussion.
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
Don't want to. End of
Uh huh, well I don't need you to feel sorry for me, when I'm dead I'll be dead. I don't feel at all bad about the situation personally, the worst thing would be giving some awful person my organs after death.
In this day and age I very much doubt it.
GeordieMark
Member
Who cares? I didn't say it was, just that he is entitled to it. Its not an offensive view. Not everyone thinks and feels the same way about these things and that's very much his right.
Its his body and he can do as he pleases with it, just like you can do the same with yours.
Difference is that you are trying to make him feel bad for his opinion, when its his choice. That's not really fair.
Absolutely. I remember saying this in another thread, and someone mentioned that Austria has an opt out system, with something like 0.5% choosing to opt out.
I've opted in for everything. They can take what they want.
Wow. So you would sacrifice the innocent child so some racist (using your example) didn't get an organ as well.
That is something to be ashamed of.
The worst thing wouldn't be an innocent child dieing due to not getting an organ?
RumblingRosco
Member
I think that's the point though; you think the worst thing is the risk of benefiting an "awful" person, but I think the worst thing is that you're guaranteeing to not help a "good" person. This is basically going to go in circles now, so I'll drop it at this point. Thanks for the conversation, though.
ClosingADoor
Member
I'm sorry you have such a bad opinion of the billions of people living right now. It's your call of course, and I'm not in favor of forcing people to donate. If they want to opt out, they should be able to, no questions asked.
FortuneFaded
Member
The Incarnation
Member
Well you're beliefs mean squat. Though they have made me even more against organ donations. Well done on that. As I got older I might even have changed my mind. But people like you just want to force people to change their minds by guilt tripping and shaming them.
Just makes your cause an empty one from where I'm sitting.
Since let's face it. You care little for the people who need donations, just your own beliefs.
God complexes are fun.
Laters.
I'm trying to change his opinion, yes. I'm doing so with my words, which he is free to consider or not. It's his choice whether my words affect him or not. Just as it's choice to heed the words of others or even his own to affirm his beliefs.
That is entirely fair.
I mean it should be apparent that I share the same opinion about yours.
Oh no, now you'll not donate your organs even more. What have I done?!
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Did I say he wasn't entitled to have his opinion? Did I say he didn't have that right?
You try to make it all so personal "you would sacrafice" no I wouldn't, I'm dead, I'm not sacraficing anyone. What I do with my body is not really anybody elses business. There are plenty of other scenarios out there where it's in your control to save a life but don't, don't act all high and mighty.
Don't worry you didn't make me feel bad ^^ I've already gone over the scenario in my head enough times that my opinion will never change unless I get some sort of say over who it goes to.
FYI, in the UK, people that abuse their bodies are not 'blacklisted' or even put further down the list.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Do you think you're good or not?
ClosingADoor
Member
Would you be in favor of an opt out system? That way you can still choose not to donate if you want to - it would just require filling in a form - but at least everybody is forced to think about it and more people will be donating organs because of it.
LaserBuddha
Member
If I could save some lives by waking up someone's grandmother with a phone call, I would. Even if she fainted.
I know I'm a monster, but there it is.
Also I love discussions like these where these true heroes step into remind us all that yes, people have a choice in this choice we are debating. Thank you all so much for your help.
I know I'm a monster, but there it is.
Also I love discussions like these where these true heroes step into remind us all that yes, people have a choice in this choice we are debating. Thank you all so much for your help.
What has that got to do with anything? I don't think you are getting what I mean. I'd like a list of people who are not allowed my organs, I just used 'good' as a general term.
Definitely, if somebody goes their whole life (usually) without opting out at any point then they obviously don't feel strongly enough about the subject. As long as people are told by their doctors ect so they're completely aware.
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