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[Oberstein]

I've been watching the latest season of The Witcher (Season 4), and once again I can't help noticing how modern or inconsistent the "medieval" aesthetic feels.

(And please don't start with the whole "The Witcher's world is dark and gritty so everyone has to wear brown" argument, I swear I'll lose it.)

It's like most fantasy productions hire fashion stylists instead of historians or people who actually understand historical medieval design. The result looks polished and "cool," but totally breaks immersion, synthetic fabrics, armor that makes no sense, and weapons that behave like props from a superhero movie.

And don't even get me started on the sword fighting: blades slicing through plate armor like butter, perfectly clean duels that look choreographed rather than brutal or tactical.

I recently watched this video — Why Netflix got The Witcher aesthetics wrong and it explains a lot. Apparently, showrunner Lauren Hissrich is very into fashion, and that's why she chose a costume designer with a fashion background. It totally shows: the sorceresses all look like they're walking a runway, each wearing a different couture outfit in every scene.

I get that it's "fantasy" and not a historical reenactment, but when your world is inspired by medieval Europe, shouldn't the costumes, weapons, and environments at least feel grounded in that era?

Check out the costume designer's website, it's full of awful fashion gala outfits, and you can clearly see where the inspiration came from.
Even if the sorceresses are supposed to look extravagant, the choices are just terrible.

Seriously, Filippa's costume doesn't resemble anything remotely medieval, not even Renaissance.

And even the armor that replaced the infamous Nilfgaardian "ball sack" suits isn't medieval at all, it just looks like some cheap fantasy template.

Do you think most modern fantasy series are visually missing the point? Or is this just an inevitable trade-off between authenticity and cinematic style?

 

[ReBurn]

If it's a fantasy how can it be wrong?

 

[Oberstein]

If it's a fantasy how can it be wrong?

Because even fantasy worlds need internal logic and coherent visual language.

You can't just throw random fashion pieces and call it "fantasy." The Witcher's world is inspired by medieval Europe... its politics, warfare, and culture.

When the visuals ignore that completely, it breaks immersion. Good worldbuilding isn't about being historically accurate, it's about being believable within its own context.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

The Witcher's world is inspired by medieval Europe

The entire fantasy genre is...

 

[Oberstein]

The entire fantasy genre is...

And that's why I'm arguing for a bit of historical grounding: there's a difference between being inspired by and randomly mixing armor, ball gowns, and leather corsets just because it looks cool.

Obligatory:

 

[Hookshot]

Because most people expect to see those types of things, doesn't matter if it's accurate. Roman emperors didn't do thumb down actions but it's in Gladiator because that's a known gesture to modern audiences.

 

[poppabk]

It totally shows: the sorceresses all look like they're walking a runway, each wearing a different couture outfit in every scene.

This is basically how they are described in the books.

 

[Fbh]

I personally don't really mind, unless the show is literally supposed to take place in Europe and not some fantasy world loosely based on it. I think it's more important the clothes and aesthetic look pleasing and consistent with the lore of the show.

What tends to kill my immersion is how costumes in many modern fantasy shows tend to look too new and clean. You have this adventurer that's supposed to be traveling on horseback, sleeping in the wilderness and constantly fighting for his life, but his clothes always look like he literally just picked them up from the store and is wearing them for the first time. He'll have some coat with white fur and that shit's almost fluorescent because of how clean it is.

To me that instantly kills the immersion and makes everyone look like, well, actors in costumes.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

And that's why I'm arguing for a bit of historical grounding

there's nothing historical about the genre, that's why it's called fantasy and not period-piece, authors are completely free to craft a look for their work, and this can include all manner of ballgowns or corsets as you put it, because it's not real, it's a made up world that probably has an equal amount of other made up shit like magic and werewolves and an actual underworld etc.

 

[Dutchy]

I hope the next Cod game will just kill the player at random moments with a text saying "you have succumbed to shellshock"

That would be so sick and realistic and fun

 

[Wildebeest]

In the medieval era they didn't give a single fuck about making things appear like they were from a certain period. They just did everything in the style of the day. That's why we think King Arthur would be wearing full plate mail even though it is totally wrong for the period. Things like "leather armour" seem to be complete invented for stage or film costumes and have more in common with modern festish wear than any sort of historical outfitting.

 

[Oberstein]

This is basically how they are described in the books.

That's exactly why I pointed out that most of the sorceresses' costumes (especially Filippa's) have absolutely nothing medieval or even Renaissance about them.

I personally don't really mind, unless the show is literally supposed to take place in Europe and not some fantasy world loosely based on it. I think it's more important the clothes and aesthetic look pleasing and consistent with the lore of the show.

What tends to kill my immersion is how costumes in many modern fantasy shows tend to look too new and clean.

For me it's actually the opposite: the costumes and overall aesthetic do matter a lot, because they set the tone of the world. If the designs feel out of place or too modern, it's hard for me to take the setting seriously, no matter how good the writing is.

And I totally agree about overly clean costumes breaking immersion. But on the flip side, I think some productions go too far the other way; everything's grey, muddy, and constantly covered in grime. There's a balance to strike between realism and pure "gritty filter" fatigue.

there's nothing historical about the genre, that's why it's called fantasy and not period-piece, authors are completely free to craft a look for their work, and this can include all manner of ballgowns or corsets as you put it, because it's not real, it's a made up world that probably has an equal amount of other made up shit like magic and werewolves and an actual underworld etc.

Sure, it's fantasy, nobody's asking for a documentary.
But "made-up world" doesn't mean visual anarchy. Every believable world, even one with magic and monsters, needs internal logic.
When the setting borrows so clearly from medieval Europe ( its architecture, feudal politics, weapons, social structure)then the visual language should reflect that.

Otherwise, it just looks like cosplay.

In the medieval era they didn't give a single fuck about making things appear like they were from a certain period. They just did everything in the style of the day. That's why we think King Arthur would be wearing full plate mail even though it is totally wrong for the period. Things like "leather armour" seem to be complete invented for stage or film costumes and have more in common with modern festish wear than any sort of historical outfitting.

Totally agree: "leather armor" is one of those pure Hollywood inventions that just won't die. It looks cool on screen, but it has nothing to do with actual historical outfitting.

And honestly, I get the feeling people are kind of numb to it at this point. Judging by some of the replies here, it doesn't even register as odd anymore, when it really should.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

But "made-up world" doesn't mean visual anarchy. Every believable world, even one with magic and monsters, needs internal logic.

The internal logic is whatever the author decides it is, not you; sounds like this is just a subjective thing where you want to see everything be visually strictly medieval just because the genre is inspired by the setting, but as you said it's not a documentary, heck a lot of these don't even take place on earth.

 

[falconhoof]

I watched a few episodes of Wheel of Time and I just couldn't buy that it was a fantasy. The dress and feel of it just felt like a bunch of current year teenagers hanging out at a low effort ren faire

 

[DKehoe]

I watched a few episodes of Wheel of Time and I just couldn't buy that it was a fantasy. The dress and feel of it just felt like a bunch of current year teenagers hanging out at a low effort ren faire

 

[Hari Seldon]

I watched a few episodes of Wheel of Time and I just couldn't buy that it was a fantasy. The dress and feel of it just felt like a bunch of current year teenagers hanging out at a low effort ren faire

You are the exact reason why every fantasy show goes for the shitty game of thrones aesthetic even though it's completely unrealistic.

 

[poppabk]

That's exactly why I pointed out that most of the sorceresses' costumes (especially Filippa's) have absolutely nothing medieval or even Renaissance about them.

They aren't described like medieval or Renaissance in the book though.
I would finally go to a Renaissance faire if the women were all super hot and wearing see through dresses.

 

[ReBurn]

Because even fantasy worlds need internal logic and coherent visual language.

You can't just throw random fashion pieces and call it "fantasy." The Witcher's world is inspired by medieval Europe... its politics, warfare, and culture.

When the visuals ignore that completely, it breaks immersion. Good worldbuilding isn't about being historically accurate, it's about being believable within its own context.

You absolutely can throw in random anything and call it fantasy. That's what makes it fantasy.

Fantasy worlds can have internal logic without being bound by external rules like what constitutes proper medieval aesthetics. Stuff only has to make sense according to the rules of the fantasy. It can ignore the gatekeeping of external influences.

 

[bitbydeath]

What happened here? She looks like a video game character.

 

[ADiTAR]

I watched a few episodes of Wheel of Time and I just couldn't buy that it was a fantasy. The dress and feel of it just felt like a bunch of current year teenagers hanging out at a low effort ren faire

Exactly. I remember that main curly guy wearing a sweater that looked like you can buy it now in Celio.

 

[Madflavor]

And that's why I'm arguing for a bit of historical grounding: there's a difference between being inspired by and randomly mixing armor, ball gowns, and leather corsets just because it looks cool.

Obligatory:

Ugh, that image sums up the problem in the nutshell. Super clean look, bad lighting, bad costumes. The casts are perfectly diverse so you have no idea who is from where, or what part of the world they're in.

 

[Outlier]

Because it's "fantasy" and getting it "right" would be the wrong thing to do.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Because it's "fantasy" and getting it "right" would be the wrong thing to do.

Not really, it's also staying true to the source material and inspiration. Witcher is actually based on medieval Europe but more so on Eastern Europe. Even in the West outside the lord's castle it was mostly filth.
20 years ago Rome actually showed how that period really was and was rewarded for it.

I suspect the problem is that for a lot of creators in the West fantasy = Lord of the Rings. Dark fantasy = Lord of the Rings, just with more dark colors. Tolkien created a masterpiece, but his fantasy was basically all knights in shiny armors or noble ladies in beautiful dresses.

 

[Trunx81]

Oh boy do I have news for you about the last Robin Hood movie with the Kingsman-guy.

Hollywood's gonna Hollywood. Not a new thing. If I would have to name a historical accurate fantasy film, I would say Jabberwocky.

 

[Oberstein]

They aren't described like medieval or Renaissance in the book though.
I would finally go to a Renaissance faire if the women were all super hot and wearing see through dresses.

No one's asking for historical accuracy, just coherence. If a story borrows medieval aesthetics but throws in random modern design choices without explanation, it's not "creative," it's inconsistent. Internal logic is defined by the author, yes but once it's defined, they need to stick to it.

You absolutely can throw in random anything and call it fantasy. That's what makes it fantasy.

Fantasy worlds can have internal logic without being bound by external rules like what constitutes proper medieval aesthetics. Stuff only has to make sense according to the rules of the fantasy. It can ignore the gatekeeping of external influences.

Sure, fantasy allows for anything. But "anything" isn't the same as "everything." You can invent whatever you want, yes, but once you establish a tone, a culture, or a visual language, that becomes your internal logic. Ignoring it breaks immersion.
The best fantasy feels real because it respects its own boundaries, not because it throws them out.

Not really, it's also staying true to the source material and inspiration. Witcher is actually based on medieval Europe but more so on Eastern Europe. Even in the West outside the lord's castle it was mostly filth.
20 years ago Rome actually showed how that period really was and was rewarded for it.

I suspect the problem is that for a lot of creators in the West fantasy = Lord of the Rings. Dark fantasy = Lord of the Rings, just with more dark colors. Tolkien created a masterpiece, but his fantasy was basically all knights in shiny armors or noble ladies in beautiful dresses.

Exactly, thank you, that's precisely the point I've been trying to make. Staying true to the source material and its cultural roots isn't about nitpicking costumes; it's about respecting the logic of the world.

The aesthetics of a period shape everything else: how people move, fight, speak, and even think. When modern fantasy strips that away, it loses its texture and ends up looking like the same glossy, generic show in a different color palette.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Obligatory:

I suspect here focus groups are also to blame - you ask random people what does a fantasy look like to them and they will give you the same answer. Execs are afraid if they try to do something different audience will say "that's not fantasy", so they play it safe. Steve Jobs was right by saying if they asked people what they want they would have answered "larger keyboard".

What happened here? She looks like a video game character.

Legendary enchanted plate armor, never seen one before? +10 to missile resistance.

 

[Ammogeddon]

It's not that they get it wrong, it's a very deliberate "artistic" choice.

The entertainment industry isn't occupied by normal people and I don't think a majority of their focus groups are either.

 

[Shadowplay1979]

I've been watching the latest season of The Witcher (Season 4), and ....

Well there was your first problem.

Problem 1. modern fantasy is made by people that dont like or care about fantasy/ They just jump the ips to spread their message so they dont care about the design.

Problem 2. the design sucks. See problem 1.

Problem 3. World building in any story that doesnt take place in our modern or near modern timeline and world is dead because all the writers make sure the worlds and world building resemble our modern world and time. None of it makes sense and the design follows that asthetic.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Did they ever get it right? I mean TV shows with medieval fantasy setting. Even Hercules, Xena had the same goofy aesthetic yet we loved them.

 

[Shadowplay1979]

Did they ever get it right? I mean TV shows with medieval fantasy setting. Even Hercules, Xena had the same goofy aesthetic yet we loved them.

we did not, i always hated those shows because of the paper machete goofy shit. However back then tv did not have the budget or the means .....The witcher 4 year run has cost half a billion dollars.

 

[The Cockatrice]

we did not, i always hated those shows because of the paper machete goofy shit. However back then tv did not have the budget or the means .....The witcher 4 year run has cost half a billion dollars.

Pretty sure those also had big budgets for that time period, besides, we know the budget rarely goes into the actual movie production and in the actors/producers/directors pockets.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Well, yes... Hollywood dumbs people down... That's why they're in decline.

 

[DirtInUrEye]

The Witcher, Rings of Power and Wheel of Time all look rubbish, they all share that crappy lit-for-TV veneer and struggle with their photography, costumes and makeup compared to something like House of Dragons, which has a cinematic and high end presentation. They spent an absolute fortune on Rings of Power in particular, but at no point does it ever take on the appearance of prestige television, and even an older show such as Mad Men or The Sopranos end up looking more polished and refined. Stranger Things is another production that looks so much better the fantasy slop that Amazon push out. These shows have their own visual ID; as opposed to The Witcher, which looks like Wheel of Time, which looks like RoP i.e. streaming high fantasy that forgets that vignetting is a valuable tool and costumes need not have the appearance of being spotless ironed.

 

[AJUMP23]

I like fantasy shows and the look rarely ever bothers me. From campy to high class.

 

[DirtInUrEye]

Taking the genre out of it, I am always bothered by poorly shot TV and films. The way they are filmed and how the production values are presented is a key consideration as to whether they're worth bothering with.

 

[P:axMagellanic]

Never even bothered watching an episode because of how shite it all looked. No excuses, they had the games to follow which looked semi historical and made up.

It worse when Hollyweird cobble wholly different pieces of armour together, you end up with a hodgepodge of shit which was centuries apart in reality.

 

[Gp1]

The real question

Is there something that Netflix's Witcher, after the first season, did it right?

 

[DaciaJC]

Heh, this is exactly the video I had in mind reading the thread title. It is truly stunning how badly Netflix fumbled the Witcher show in every conceivable way.

 

[jason10mm]

The real question

Is there something that Netflix's Witcher, after the first season, did it right?

No

 

[mitch1971]

Check the Teeth!

 

[IDKFA]

I've been watching the latest season of The Witcher (Season 4), and once again I can't help noticing how modern or inconsistent the "medieval" aesthetic feels.

(And please don't start with the whole "The Witcher's world is dark and gritty so everyone has to wear brown" argument, I swear I'll lose it.)

It's like most fantasy productions hire fashion stylists instead of historians or people who actually understand historical medieval design. The result looks polished and "cool," but totally breaks immersion, synthetic fabrics, armor that makes no sense, and weapons that behave like props from a superhero movie.

And don't even get me started on the sword fighting: blades slicing through plate armor like butter, perfectly clean duels that look choreographed rather than brutal or tactical.

I recently watched this video — Why Netflix got The Witcher aesthetics wrong and it explains a lot. Apparently, showrunner Lauren Hissrich is very into fashion, and that's why she chose a costume designer with a fashion background. It totally shows: the sorceresses all look like they're walking a runway, each wearing a different couture outfit in every scene.

I get that it's "fantasy" and not a historical reenactment, but when your world is inspired by medieval Europe, shouldn't the costumes, weapons, and environments at least feel grounded in that era?

Check out the costume designer's website, it's full of awful fashion gala outfits, and you can clearly see where the inspiration came from.
Even if the sorceresses are supposed to look extravagant, the choices are just terrible.

Seriously, Filippa's costume doesn't resemble anything remotely medieval, not even Renaissance.

And even the armor that replaced the infamous Nilfgaardian "ball sack" suits isn't medieval at all, it just looks like some cheap fantasy template.

Do you think most modern fantasy series are visually missing the point? Or is this just an inevitable trade-off between authenticity and cinematic style?

Medieval scholar here.

I'm actually fine with the clothing and armour in medieval fantasy shows because they're not set in the real world. It's fantasy and they can have whatever armour they like. I'm not going to judge the Witcher because frankly it's impossible. It's not based on a real world time frame on Earth so I have no point of reference. If it was set in say, 15th century Poland, then I could judge it. But it's not even set on this world, so there is nothing to judge.

What grinds my gears is when they use historically inaccurate clothing/armour in a so-called "historical" films and TV shows. That really pisses me off.

 

[Oberstein]

Medieval scholar here.

I'm actually fine with the clothing and armour in medieval fantasy shows because they're not set in the real world. It's fantasy and they can have whatever armour they like. I'm not going to judge the Witcher because frankly it's impossible. It's not based on a real world time frame on Earth so I have no point of reference. If it was set in say, 15th century Poland, then I could judge it. But it's not even set on this world, so there is nothing to judge.

What grinds my gears is when they use historically inaccurate clothing/armour in a so-called "historical" films and TV shows. That really pisses me off.

Actually, I disagree. In the case of The Witcher Saga, you can't really say there's "nothing to judge" because it's not our world. If you read Sapkowski's books, the setting draws heavily from medieval Europe, not just visually, but structurally and culturally.

The world of The Witcher clearly mirrors a feudal society, with lords, vassals, taxes, guilds, and wars between rival kingdoms. There's also a powerful religious institution modeled on the Catholic Church and burnings at the stake. Even the economy, warfare, and clothing and armour styles evoke late-medieval Central and Eastern Europe... you even find Landsknechts, German-style mercenaries, mentioned explicitly!

So while it's technically "fantasy," it's still rooted in a recognizable historical framework. You don't have to be a medieval scholar to be bothered when a show ignores that context; especially when Sapkowski himself built his world so clearly on it.

 

[jason10mm]

AKSHUALLY the Witcher world is technically portions of our Earth (or such a similar one that it makes no difference) transposed on to the elven world that was there before the conjunction. So most, if not all, the human societies were directly taken from Earth and then left to evolve as they may against all the other aliens/monsters and races brought there. Humans learned magic from the Elves and Witchers were scientifically altered humans to fight the aliens around them . So there should be pretty direct earth influences and specific cultural lines from wherever (and possibly whenever) these people came across. But there was probably enough mixing, overlapping, general chaos, and residual drips of convergence that you could allow for cultural drift. Not, most likely, enough to account for what we see on the show, but while the Witcher world wasn't -just- fantasy poland, neither was it wholly invented stuff.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

In the case of The Witcher Saga, you can't really say there's "nothing to judge" because it's not our world.

sure we can, it doesn't even take place on earth, just some unnamed planet where people arrived through some magical convergence that smashed all manner of worlds together.

 

[IDKFA]

Actually, I disagree. In the case of The Witcher Saga, you can't really say there's "nothing to judge" because it's not our world. If you read Sapkowski's books, the setting draws heavily from medieval Europe, not just visually, but structurally and culturally.

Important point here. It draws from our world. It's not a like for like reflection. As long as people notice it as medieval then that's fine.

Should knights in the Witcher have 15th century Gothic plate armour, or perhaps Milanese armour? Would any of those even make sense in a fantasy setting that isn't even set on Earth.

The world of The Witcher clearly mirrors a feudal society, with lords, vassals, taxes, guilds, and wars between rival kingdoms. There's also a powerful religious institution modeled on the Catholic Church and burnings at the stake. Even the economy, warfare, and clothing and armour styles evoke late-medieval Central and Eastern Europe... you even find Landsknechts, German-style mercenaries, mentioned explicitly!

All inspired by the real world, yes, but as it's fantasy there is scope to branch out and do something a little different. It's not a like for like comparison.

So while it's technically "fantasy," it's still rooted in a recognizable historical framework. You don't have to be a medieval scholar to be bothered when a show ignores that context; especially when Sapkowski himself built his world so clearly on it.

If Sapkowski said himself that knights should be walking around in 15th century Gothic plate then so be it. It doesn't make sense at all, but it's his world. It's been a while since I read the series of books, but I don't remember any details that scream Gothic or Flemish armour, or details of clothing that relate to the real medieval world.

Looking at the book covers (I'm going to assume had some input or signed off on them), how are they different to show? It's all medieval fantasy clothing and armour.