Why is the community convicting Evilore? I see no jurors here.

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This is my entire problem with this. Could someone who was sexually assaulted agree to a consensual relationship with someone who assaulted them? Sure. Common place? Nah.

It's not about not believing victims. It's about using some fucking common sense in this case.

The defence is that she was a kind person and decided to forgive him, which apparently ended up being a big mistake.

I just don't think you can have your cake and eat it too. To forgive someone for something like that, it might not have been that bad.

Would she have forgiven him if he had raped her? I feel that if what Evilore did was worthy of forgiveness it could not have been a major barrier for her.

As you say people do forgive, people have different tolerance levels, views, opinions etc, but for me it's a big red flag, in the same way Evilore's past is red flag for those that think he's guilty.

The reality is that people do lie about this sort of thing too. When I've mentioned that before people have said "That's why people are scared to come out, as they get called a liar". Which is fair enough, but the fact remains that some people do crazy things when they get hurt.
 
If y'all think neogaf ain't gonna get more members you're nuts, 90% of the gaming internet wanted GAF politics to go away. They're still jumping down people's throats over there, I never liked that environment here, I certainly wouldn't like it over there. So Imma wait this out, gaming GAF will do just fine.
 
I hate to say this, but it's less about "evidence" and more about actually believing women. That's the whole point of #metoo. That said, it is always difficult to comment on alleged sexual accusations without it going to court.

I have been sexually assaulted three times, and I never spoke up because I thought nobody would believe me. If I spoke out against the other people, I'm sure they'd feel like they were being witch-hunted or something, but it's still within my right to discuss what happened and how I felt like it violated my consent or constituted as harassment/assault.

Like usual, it is always "he said she said," and people who are convicting Evilore are the very least believing the women who say #metoo.

Personally, I believe her. I also don't think it's my place to play judge/jury/executioner with this. I would much prefer Evilore apologize, try to make things right, and move on. It's also kind of like, none of my business. I just hope that everyone is treated fairly, heard, and given a chance to hear both sides of the event. I don't like the accusations, but people in America are innocent until proven guilty.

The whole point of this is to believe the women who say #metoo. I choose to believe the woman, but I've learned enough in my freedom of speech/law classes to know to just say "alleged" until proven in court.

That's the problem I have with #metoo. I think the spirit is good, but I don't believe that #metoo should be about wholly believing what women say 100%. That is fully open to abuse. Women, just like men, can lie or tell half-truths.

#metoo should be about listening to these people's claims instead of dismissing them out of hand. Then seeking justice for both parties.
 
Bill Cosby: I like this thread.

More than 50 people have accused Cosby of something. One person that didn't even want to be named or make a big deal of things made a FB post about Evilore. They are not the same.

I'm really uncomfortable with deleting someone from existence over one instance of hearsay, especially when that person expresses regret that a big deal has been made of it.
 
because the culture here was, if you're a girl and you blame a guy for something, the girl was 100% correct all the time and if you dare spoke out against that you were banned. here's a situation where the girl that accused tyler is very likely lying or regretted her own actions well after the fact and needed someone to blame so called out tyler for something that happened years ago. it's borderline slander as it hurt his reputation and the culture here was, "the girl is always correct" in these situations. well in this case she really wasn't, but no one cared because all those who spoke out in the past against always believing the "victim" were banned
 
I didn't see whatever all the hubbub is about. I logged off one day, and the next was met with a white page that stated, simply, "I'm fixing GAF." Odd, but who knows what happens with websites, it could have been a hack or anything. Then it was a down for maintenance message. Alright, things should be back to normal soon.

The site comes back up, and suddenly everyone hates Evilore and no one can say why. So I did some Googling as you do, and saw that all this is based on little more than a post on Facebook. A deleted post on Facebook at that.

I've seen nothing about charges being filed. Nothing about an arrest. No trial. No evidence. Just gossip.

It's been apparent for years that the orthodoxy on GAF takes a closed minded, almost belligerent approach to social ills, with a nasty streak of "guilty until proven innocent" rhetoric. (Unless you're Amir0x duping the community into giving you drug money, apparently that's cool with a lot of people on here.) Still, I never expected to see such upheaval over an unproven accusation. I've seen some of my favorite posters here say they will never post of GAF again because of this.

I can't quite say I'm sad to see the community here disintegrating, it is just an internet message board after all. But I do wish that a group that so constantly touts its self as reasonable, broadminded and forward thinking would take a step back and look at the situation from all sides. As it stands, I see an incredible set of knee jerk reactions leading to a community tearing its self apart.

And this isn't to say that I don't understand the reaction. The accusation, as unconvincing as a random Facebook post may be, is worrying, and the reaction to it reaching the community gives me pause. But why are so many here letting the first word be the last word? This story isn't finished, the definitive narrative hasn't been established. With the nature of this whole thing being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised if the parties involved tried to keep the next steps private, either.


You didn't do much research if you are trying to figure out why they left. They left due to a combination of things including his history, handling of Amirox situation, and the handling of the accusation against him. It is more the handling of these issues that caused them to bail with the knowledge that the accusation may be true.

People didn't just see this accusation in a vacuum and make their decision. For a person that did "research", I am not sure how you don't understand this.

More than 50 people have accused Cosby of something. One person that didn't even want to be named or make a big deal of things made a FB post about Evilore. They are not the same.

I'm really uncomfortable with deleting someone from existence over one instance of hearsay, especially when that person expresses regret that a big deal has been made of it.

Again, you are taking this in a vacuum... It is his history that people are and became aware of due to this that is doing this, not just this one accusation.

If y'all think neogaf ain't gonna get more members you're nuts, 90% of the gaming internet wanted GAF politics to go away. They're still jumping down people's throats over there, I never liked that environment here, I certainly wouldn't like it over there. So Imma wait this out, gaming GAF will do just fine.

99% of statistics are made up on the spot (seems accurate). Just no, many people used and stayed on GAF because of OT which includes politics. Also no one cares what "gaming internet" want because it is filled with intolerant people.
 
More than 50 people have accused Cosby of something. One person that didn't even want to be named or make a big deal of things made a FB post about Evilore. They are not the same.

I'm really uncomfortable with deleting someone from existence over one instance of hearsay, especially when that person expresses regret that a big deal has been made of it.

If you believe that a person is innocent until the courts decide then it should apply to all people as well.

If you believe Bill Cosby is guilty, then why not EL? Oh because it's 50 people that accused Bill? What's the magic number that accusations turn into guilt? Say it was 1 person that accused Bill. Would you still have the same respect for his character before that number climbed to 50?
 
maybe I'm out of the loop here since I didn't read through all those threads fill with account suicide and reactionary posts, but other then his post about the Brazilian incident and the more recent shower issue, what else had EL said and/or done that cause such an uproar?
 
If you believe that a person is innocent until the courts decide then it should apply to all people as well.

If you believe Bill Cosby is guilty, then why not EL? Oh because it's 50 people that accused Bill? What's the magic number that accusations turn into guilt? Say it was 1 person that accused Bill. Would you still have the same respect for his character before that number climbed to 50?

bill cosby fucking drugged and raped these women. tyler didn't drug or rape anyone, the accusation was he got naked into a shower with the girl and propositioned her and she declined. those women cosby raped didn't then go and hook back up with him later on. the situation is not the same thing so don't even compare.
 
I read it more as Evilore not really caring if people want to leave.
Someone posted a thread with resetera day 1 stats which are pretty crazy.
They were banned within a few minutes and the page was deleted (according to the poster).

Poor taste to link a competing site I guess, but if true shows another disturbing change.. When do you recall threads being deleted and not just locked here?
 
What gender and ethnicity are you? As I need to know that to tailor my reply to you...

Oh sorry I thought I was posting on R3setEra for a moment.

Tailoring your communications to your audience is a tried and tested way of convincing people that your arguments make sense. You should probably give it shot some time.
 
Someone posted a thread with resetera day 1 stats which are pretty crazy.
They were banned within a few minutes and the page was deleted (according to the poster).

Poor taste to link a competing site I guess, but if true shows another disturbing change.. When do you recall threads being deleted and not just locked here?

to be fair, resetera is deleting any threads relating to neogaf as well. they're just trying to disassociate themselves as it won't lead to any good discussions on either side
 
Tailoring your communications to your audience is a tried and tested way of convincing people that your arguments make sense. You should probably give it shot some time.

I'm sure I'll be fine here with the rest of the nazi, racist, misogynists, as that's what anyone staying on NeoGaf is right, according to the "good people"

Seriously though if this site is so terrible, why would you or anyone else stay? It's an internet forum, you're not obligated to stay.

You might not be able to hear me from your pedestal though....Anyway I'm off, I'll start posting again once the number of "protesters" dies down.

See I'm going to log out, it's that simple....
 
What gender and ethnicity are you? As I need to know that to tailor my reply to you...

Oh sorry I thought I was posting on R3setEra for a moment.

I'm sure I'll be fine here with the rest of the nazi, racist, misogynists, as that's what anyone staying on NeoGaf is right, according to the "good people"

Seriously though if this site is so terrible, why would you or anyone else stay? It's an internet forum, you're not obligated to stay.

You might not be able to hear me from your pedestal though....Anyway I'm off, I'll start posting again once the number of "protesters" dies down.

See I'm going to log out, it's that simple....

this is so cringey, lmao
 
If you believe that a person is innocent until the courts decide then it should apply to all people as well.

If you believe Bill Cosby is guilty, then why not EL? Oh because it's 50 people that accused Bill? What's the magic number that accusations turn into guilt? Say it was 1 person that accused Bill. Would you still have the same respect for his character before that number climbed to 50?

Are you really comparing Bill Cosby with EL? You should be ashamed of your self. diminishing what all those 50+ woman went through with bill cosby. By comparing it to someone who made a mistake by thinking they would shower together (drunk) she said get uit he got out after that the resumed there relation ship.

Comparing that to bill cosby then you have no idea what your talking about.

Tailoring your communications to your audience is a tried and tested way of convincing people that your arguments make sense. You should probably give it shot some time.

These posts made me lose interest in posting on neogaf
 
I'm sure I'll be fine here with the rest of the nazi, racist, misogynists, as that's what anyone staying on NeoGaf is right, according to the "good people"

Seriously though if this site is so terrible, why would you or anyone else stay? It's an internet forum, you're not obligated to stay.

You might not be able to hear me from your pedestal though....Anyway I'm off, I'll start posting again once the number of "protesters" dies down.

See I'm going to log out, it's that simple....

Person talking from high horse tells others to get off their pedestal.

Not too mention it doesn't even matter what EL did anymore. It's how you handle yourself. If you hit someone's car and your response is to hide and then try to cover it up even though the damage is minor it makes things far worse. People left because the owner couldn't handle his shit in a responsible adult manner and took it out on the forum and its communities.
 
Someone posted a thread with resetera day 1 stats which are pretty crazy.
They were banned within a few minutes and the page was deleted (according to the poster).

Poor taste to link a competing site I guess, but if true shows another disturbing change.. When do you recall threads being deleted and not just locked here?

Considering it is a new forum, if a thread is created to cause such issues, then it is best to just delete it altogether than locking it.

bill cosby fucking drugged and raped these women. tyler didn't drug or rape anyone, the accusation was he got naked into a shower with the girl and propositioned her and she declined. those women cosby raped didn't then go and hook back up with him later on. the situation is not the same thing so don't even compare.

You ignored his point to argue semantics. His point is when does an accusation becomes believable? It is important to note people got and get killed because of significant number of people accuse one person of doing something.

Not specifically aimed at you:

Yes, legally and officially a person is innocent until proven guilty, but that does not mean they are innocent and people will judge that based on that person's history. That is what happened here.

Which by the way, you flashing someone with your naked body is damn near sexual assault if they did not want it. It is most certainly sexual harassment. You have to ignore the context said in the accusation to think it is a minor thing to go into a shower with a woman that is sick from drinking too much. While I do not think this is a major, "sink em'" issue, it is sickening to see people trying to claim that this is nothing.
 
I’m not siding with either party. I’m not condoning witch hunts against either party, either. At the end of the day, this is a serious allegation with very little proof from either side to clarify that it did or did not happen. I’m here for NeoGAF and to join in with videogame discussion, not to take sides.

This. Regardless of whether you think Tyler is guilt or not, what brought you to GAF?
 
This. Regardless of whether you think Tyler is guilt or not, what brought you to GAF?

A lot of people have said over and over they came here for other reasons than videogames and often stayed long after they had stopped going to the gaming side.
 
If some people are leaving because they weren't allowed to spew their bigotry without getting banned or ostracized by the community, then good riddance.
 
Considering it is a new forum, if a thread is created to cause such issues, then it is best to just delete it altogether than locking it.
What I was saying it's when did that happen here outside of graphic porn suicide threads?

Now you have invisible mods, deleted threads, selective approved topics and a core of resentment for the people who left.

I hope a month down the road this place can catch a semblance of what it was.
 
How could a community eat itself?

It allowed hatred towards Republicans, Jews, cops, and Microsoft video game consoles.

Oh also America and Isreal.

It became constant negative output of ideas. AndI am enjoying watch it die.

How could a community eat itself?

It allowed hatred towards Republicans, Jews, cops, and Microsoft video game consoles.

Oh also America and Isreal.

It became constant negative output of ideas. AndI am enjoying watching it die.

Yeah and who are you people? Certainly not the best of us.

Years of posting on a message board and making a name for yourself. Are you proud of what you represent, or so. Invested that you ignore right and wrong?

This sure seems like spam and gaslighting
 
What I was saying it's when did that happen here outside of graphic porn suicide threads?

Now you have invisible mods, deleted threads, selective approved topics and a core of resentment for the people who left.

I hope a month down the road this place can catch a semblance of what it was.

I see, I misunderstood your post.

I don't agree with invisible mods. I am hoping and thinking the deletion of threads stop and don't buy into that "protecting privacy of past members" as a reason for the deletion of all the other content. There were plenty of threads I didn't subscribe to, but posted in so I can go back to it later and now that is gone.

Unfortunately the people that left and OT was thrown under the bus as "too toxic". When things calm down I also wonder how this will go and hope as you do, that it retains most of what GAF had to offer.
 
I'm not "convicting" Evilore for sexual misconduct, I'm convicting him for being a poor business owner. As far as I am a customer and stakeholder of NeoGaf, I feel I'm as qualified as anybody to assess his effectiveness as the site's owner.
 
Live by the believe ; die by the believe.

That said, the Evilore hate is not new, people just didn't talk about it much. Regardless of anything, it was handled extremely poorly.
 
Last post in the state of NeoGAF thread really just rubbed me the wrong way. I was open to staying but that post just implied an us versus them mentality and I really just don't care for it.

Guess what? You're going to get that from both sides of the community now as ridiculous as it that sounds.
 
Because girls never lie or do anything wrong according to some people.
 
Because this is the internet, and that's what people do. They like to gossip and bitch and point fingers. Evidence be damned.

One of the worst things about the internet too. Not sure which is worse though, that, or people acting like complete assholes, saying things that they would never say to someone in person.

I'm not really one for being vindictive, but I do hope that some day, many of the worst offenders ends up doing something really stupid and everyone around them blows the situation way out of proportion and just makes up a bunch of random shit, getting that person ostracized.

Leaving this site isn't the issue, it's the way this situation was handled so badly by many.

Hard to talk about it here without being banned. That might give you some idea of why things are the way they are now.

No it's not. All of the information that's readily available points to one thing; someone makes a lot of mistakes and handles things poorly. The latest issue is mostly he said she said. You have evidence of nothing, and you've seen nothing other than some random Facebook post. That's not evidence.

What evidence? His piss poor statement doesn't prove anything on his side either, despite him claiming that he can.

You realize that works for both people involved right?
 
How about Amirox? He's only been accused, not convicted. Should he get his account back? Innocent until proven guilty after all.
 
Because girls never lie or do anything wrong according to some people.
The thinking is that that should be ignored, and no suggestion be made that the victim might be making up the story, as to not dissuade those who have actually been victimized from speaking out. If a few (or a bunch of) men need to have their lives ruined for the greater good, so be it.

It's completely illogical and pretty malicious thinking, but it's where we're at right now, so...
 
Because girls never lie or do anything wrong according to some people.
Wow, what an incredibly astute observation. I’m sure it wouldn’t be ridiculous to suggest “Men always act appropriately and never do anything wrong according to some people”?
 
Wow, what an incredibly astute observation. I’m sure it wouldn’t be ridiculous to suggest “Men always act appropriately and never do anything wrong according to some people”?

men lie and do bad shit and so can women. each situation has to be analyzed separately and shouldn't have a blanket response of acceptance based on the gender
 
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