Why it's totally wrong to expect Nintendo's next handheld to have an high res screen.
- Thread starter LeleSocho
- Start date
This totally true if you have crap PPI at any resolution whatever is being displayed will look like crap. Nintendo's engineers probably know the bare minimum and it's not hard to figure it out even enthusiast consumers in to pc know how to caluclate how much ppi you need for something to look decent see 24"vs27" 1080p monitor debates.
OP you used to many reasons. The reason no one here should expect a really good hi res screen is cause if it doesn't serve nintendo's interest they aren't going the extra mile. Pretty simple they have made it clear the last decade they will give their gaming devices enough grunt and features to do what they feel is necessary for consumers rarely anything more this isn't sony we are talking about.
D.Lo
Member
Everyone else who makes hardware loses billions of dollars.
The PS3 lost Sony something like $5 billion dollars net, and the 360 lost Microsoft $3 billion dollars net over their lifetimes.
So yeah you can have both, if someone else is paying for it in some misguided attempt to become the entertainment centrepiece of your living room.
You can make decently spec'd hardware without breaking the bank. I don't understand why people feel its an all or nothing proposition.
The PS3 and Xboxes financial woes were caused by many factors but their power wasn't one of them.
The Vita doesn't lose money and it costs the same as a 3DS XL.
Phreakuency
Banned
Doesn't really matter what points make sense to me. I've had high resolution phones and tablets for years now. If the next Nintendo handheld doesn't keep with the times then they won't be getting my money and I'm sure many others will be in the same boat.
Vita drives a "540p" screen and has perfectly fine battery life, while keeping a really nice, slim form factor. The device is 4 years old.
At the end of the day, with progress in energy-efficienct APUs as well as smaller and smaller manufacturing processes, it should be possible for Nintendo to release a console that has 6-8 hour battery life with a 720p scree and a generational leap in handheld IQ.
Now, that's not to say I think they will do it. It does not really fall in line with Nintendo's recent business philosophy to release devices that are even close to the edge of tech. So, yah, if I had to guess I think we'll get a 480p or 540p device.
Although I'd agree about Nintendo's approach to tech, I wonder if their need to compete with mobiles and tablets may force their hand? They might need to have a large, ok resolution capacitive screen or risk being entirely ignored by the tablet generation.
I think they might go 5-6" 540p because they will also want some differentiation with their home console. A handheld pushing 720p could be too close to a home console and discourage buying both.
One alternative would be a 1080p screen just so they can call it 1080p or retina or whatever, so you can watch your 'full HD' movies blah blah, but run all games at 540p upscaled.
GhostTrick
Banned
The Vita real cost was hidden by mandatory memory card. Of course you dont lose money when your handheld has to be bought with overpriced memory cards.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Phones/mobile won't "force their hand" because the price points are entirely different. Nintendo can't and won't sell something competitive with them for $150 or whatever their next portable will be priced at.
I agree that your alternative suggestion could be feasible, said the same thing on the bottom of the previous page.
The Vita was losing money at launch, and was likely losing money when they cut its price too. The memory card shit probably helps in that regard, but the system itself was certainly taking a loss, which Sony themselves admitted years ago. Having said that, Vita was quite a high spec device at the time, Nintendo doesn't need to push that far.
Regardless this is a difficult discussion to have when we pretty much have no idea what their future plans could be. With the WiiU in the shitter, and the 3DS on track to be one of their worst selling handhelds, it's all pretty up in the air at the moment.
D.Lo
Member
On what do you base this? What other costs are there apart from hardware and marketing?
mario_O
Member
Well, the PS4 is a good example of powerful hardware that is selling like hot cakes. It can be done. A 720p screen in 2016-17 should be really cheap anyway.
480p seems very possible for their next handheld.
One 1600x480 screen above for 3D on top and one 800x480 on the bottom, it would be slightly above 720p in terms of total pixels pushed, but still below 1080p which would give way for better battery life and more processing and rendering budget for the developers to use in case they were to implement state-of-the-art hardware without having to give a percentage of that power already away to resolution.
Additionally, as that resolution would be a 2x the 3DS's resolution, backwards compatibility would work flawlessly as the new handheld would just require to duplicate each pixel once vertically and horizontally, meaning for one there would be next to no up-scaling processing necessary, even though it could do stuff like Bilinear Filtering like on the Vita, and, unlike the NDS to 3DS, there would be a perfect pixel ratio causing 3DS games to look no blurrier or worse than they would on their own hardware.
One 1600x480 screen above for 3D on top and one 800x480 on the bottom, it would be slightly above 720p in terms of total pixels pushed, but still below 1080p which would give way for better battery life and more processing and rendering budget for the developers to use in case they were to implement state-of-the-art hardware without having to give a percentage of that power already away to resolution.
Additionally, as that resolution would be a 2x the 3DS's resolution, backwards compatibility would work flawlessly as the new handheld would just require to duplicate each pixel once vertically and horizontally, meaning for one there would be next to no up-scaling processing necessary, even though it could do stuff like Bilinear Filtering like on the Vita, and, unlike the NDS to 3DS, there would be a perfect pixel ratio causing 3DS games to look no blurrier or worse than they would on their own hardware.
169 for a XL model 129 for the standard model, worked for the DS. Even the 3DS isn't at that pricepoint even.
What?
PS3 w/o insanely expensive 2x BluRay drive, it was around how much? $350? For a fucking 2x drive?
Replace that one with a 12x DVD drive like in the 360 and PS3 at $599 would have AT LEAST not cost Sony around $250 per unit on top. It would have also solved the horrible installation and load time issues, that are still everywhere.
And that's just the bluray drive.
It seems Sony went "Hey engineers, design PS3" - "how much shall it cost?" - "doesn't matter. just design it. And put a bluray drive in there. We will just pull the same shit as with the PS2 and its DVD player. Because normal customers will surely jump immediately on the bluray train"
$250 != $250+$100, customers aren't that stupid. Or are they?
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
This.
It seems Sony's strategy of hiding the true cost of the Vita really works on some people here.
Hardware ≠ power
Sony put in insanely expensive Blu-ray drives to win a format war nobody cared about, paid a really uncompetitive price for their Nvidia cards because they panicked at the last minute and spent $billions developing the dead-end Cell.
Microsoft spent a fortune because IBM and AMD's die shrink roadmaps didn't match reality and they were putting far too hot components in too small a case thus leading to the RROD debacle.
Neither company suffered because of "power".
I wonder how many more years of Nintendo games being fun despite being technically retarded it will take before confirmation seeking customers of other systems will finally realise that absolute technical power has never, ever lead to a superior game catalogue.
In this world of constantly iterated smartphones and uber PCs, the examples of the other consoles and Vita somehow being 'par' in the power stakes are nonsensical and really just serve to prove that it's an argument borne out of purchase insecurity.
In this world of constantly iterated smartphones and uber PCs, the examples of the other consoles and Vita somehow being 'par' in the power stakes are nonsensical and really just serve to prove that it's an argument borne out of purchase insecurity.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
So 'built on ND's Uncharted engine' == 'a downport' now? That's some interesting logic.
For such a small screen I'd be MORE than fine with a 720p screen on their next handheld, as long as it has good colours/contrast. No need for a 1080p screen when even home consoles struggle to reach that resolution natively. And I don't want a super expensive portable, so whatever the best ratio of resolution/power requirements/cost is I'd be okay with that. I still game with no problems on the 3DS and its ridiculously low resolution screen, and Vita's screen looks sweet even at 540p, so...
I'm not too concerned.
I'm not too concerned.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Killzone Mercenary runs at native resolution, by far the most demanding game on the system. We're a long way from Vita's launch year and dev teams targeting lower resolutions perhaps due to some hardware stuff not being locked down. Lot of ignorance about the system but, no surprise why.
GhostTrick
Banned
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Oh, the irony..
GhostTrick
Banned
biglittleps
Member
I agree. Price is more important when it comes to handhelds.
Non-native resolution games are a huge issue on Vita, but that's mostly because of stupid developer decisions (just like on any other platform I'd argue). For example, you simply shouldn't use deferred shading on Vita.
Anyway, regarding the cost talk earlier in this thread, I agree with not trusting breakdowns much. What I do trust is the actual prices you can pick up complete, unsubsidized devices for. For example, this bottom of the barrel tablet with a 1024x600 screen is being sold for $35. So somehow, it has to be possible to source that panel (likely shitty, but that has never stopped Nintendo!), a SoC, a battery and other assorted parts, and manufacture it, for less than $35.
Anyway, regarding the cost talk earlier in this thread, I agree with not trusting breakdowns much. What I do trust is the actual prices you can pick up complete, unsubsidized devices for. For example, this bottom of the barrel tablet with a 1024x600 screen is being sold for $35. So somehow, it has to be possible to source that panel (likely shitty, but that has never stopped Nintendo!), a SoC, a battery and other assorted parts, and manufacture it, for less than $35.
There's absolutely nothing unreasonable about expecting this though. Even Nintendo couldn't be so backwards as to think a low res display in modern day hardware is going to be acceptable. I fully expect a 720p display in their next handheld.
But I see this is another thread hijacked by console warriors, so I guess that's all I'll say on the matter.
But I see this is another thread hijacked by console warriors, so I guess that's all I'll say on the matter.
It's certainly possible..but I'm slightly doubtful that Nintendo will make their next handheld such a straight sequel to the 3DS.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Nintendo will release substandard, overpriced hardware. There's no historical reason to believe otherwise, unfortunately.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
What features and capabilities are missing in PS Vita?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Consumers are fine and happy to pay $700 for what costs Apple less than $300 to make, subsidies in your contract or not that is what you are paying those phones.
I think people would be fine to buy overpriced hardware (i.e. profitable HW if you wanted to be anal about them) as long as it delivers the perceived value they look for.
GhostTrick
Banned
The good thing with the smartphone boom is that tech evolved so fast that in 2016/2017, the standard will be so high that substandard will be convenient.
First of all: it will NOT be 1080p, it won't be 720p either probably.
- b-b-b-but my phone is 1080p!
okay dude but the (3D) games you play on it either run at less resolution OR the developers are retarded and allow it to run at 1080p and it runs like dog shit OR it has extremely simple graphics. Or they are just simple games. Does your phone run Gravity Rush at 1080p? Don't think so. Also the battery life, and heat. The resolution in phone's screens are absurd nowadays (I have a 1080p Nexus 5), they should have stayed in 720p that looks 100% fine for 5-6" but oh the marketing.
When making a handled they will just search for a resolution that, simply, looks good. And with a ~5" screen, the resolution to do so is fairly low.
The 3DS screen resolution is absolute shit btw, but I think it has to do with 3D. They couldn't have a high-resolution screen AND 3D. If they didn't make the console 3D they could have pushed the resolution up a bit I think.
However, to the OP:
Do you really think the next Nintendo's hardware won't be more powerful than the Vita? Even if they use obsolete hardware it will be, just like a 3DS is better than a PSP. So it will have the same resolution probably. Or 480p at least. Not less.
- b-b-b-but my phone is 1080p!
okay dude but the (3D) games you play on it either run at less resolution OR the developers are retarded and allow it to run at 1080p and it runs like dog shit OR it has extremely simple graphics. Or they are just simple games. Does your phone run Gravity Rush at 1080p? Don't think so. Also the battery life, and heat. The resolution in phone's screens are absurd nowadays (I have a 1080p Nexus 5), they should have stayed in 720p that looks 100% fine for 5-6" but oh the marketing.
When making a handled they will just search for a resolution that, simply, looks good. And with a ~5" screen, the resolution to do so is fairly low.
The 3DS screen resolution is absolute shit btw, but I think it has to do with 3D. They couldn't have a high-resolution screen AND 3D. If they didn't make the console 3D they could have pushed the resolution up a bit I think.
However, to the OP:
Do you really think the next Nintendo's hardware won't be more powerful than the Vita? Even if they use obsolete hardware it will be, just like a 3DS is better than a PSP. So it will have the same resolution probably. Or 480p at least. Not less.
bwahahahaha. Good one mate
Nintendo makes handhelds to be sold, not for them to rot in a cellar like Sony's Vita. The masses don't give a shit about a hi-res screen and top of the line specs. They buy their handhelds for the games
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
MIcrosd card compatibility for start
I was talking about the collection on Vita, which renders at 720x408 and runs at a lower frame rate than the games did on PS2.
Mysterious
Banned
Lol my iPhone 6 Plus battery says otherwise. And it's resolution increased over the previous gen.
GameSeeker
Member
Nintendo needs to find their portable niche and stick to it. They can't compete with smartphones.
Nintendo will focus on low-cost and doing something different from smartphones. It was rumored that they might use Sharp's IGZO Free-Form displays that were shown off at CES 2015. That would fit with Nintendo's Modus Operandi.
Nintendo will focus on low-cost and doing something different from smartphones. It was rumored that they might use Sharp's IGZO Free-Form displays that were shown off at CES 2015. That would fit with Nintendo's Modus Operandi.
Cute Dragon Here
Member
How long does it last and how hot does it get while playing a high-end 3D game on it?
I have yet to seen a non-console handheld device that can play games for hours without getting hot.
Cute Dragon Here
Member
Would it be worth it if that is what we end up having in the race to drive down costs for our handheld consoles?
Icomp
Member
Meh, Nintendo has always been about gimmicks. Lets face it, if the world is going to high-rez town, Nintendo will probably try to sell us on the uniqueness of not being that. Coupled with countless Mario games that is.
And seeing how that went with wiiu(be it failed marketing or not), they'll be gone in a few years.
And seeing how that went with wiiu(be it failed marketing or not), they'll be gone in a few years.
His point is that mobile component prices are far cheaper than people are estimating and Nintendo can do pretty well budgeting for a system with a bill of materials at ~100, not that we should be amazed at how cheap shitty shit is.