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[Bam Bam Baklava]

That's demonstrably false. There's a Gallup poll I posted yesterday. Not digging for it now, but yeah... You're way off on that.

Also, the Red Scare stuff is a non-starter and would be used against any liberal. I don't have any respect for that concern. Hillary has decades of baggage that has been aired out in the public eye. She's not well-liked outside of card carrying Democrats. That's the reality of her as a candidate. If the Republicans had a reasonable candidate to put forward, they'd wipe the floor with her.

There's a difference between calling someone a socialist and them saying no I'm not and having videos of a guy saying he is one, calling for more taxes, more government, and other things that the American electorate straight up hates with a passion.

I don't consider voting 3rd party as taking their ball and going home. someone taking their ball and going home would likely amount to, oh I don't know, staying home on election day.

Did you just ignore the entire post and focus on the semantics of an analogy?

 

[JesseEwiak]

That's demonstrably false. There's a Gallup poll I posted yesterday. Not digging for it now, but yeah... You're way off on that.

Also, the Red Scare stuff is a non-starter and would be used against any liberal. I don't have any respect for that concern. Hillary has decades of baggage that has been aired out in the public eye. She's not well-liked outside of card carrying Democrats. That's the reality of her as a candidate. If the Republicans had a reasonable candidate to put forward, they'd wipe the floor with her.

There's a difference when there's video of the guy stating he's a socialist and stuff like going to the Soviet Union for his honeymoon. Imagine if there actually was a 'whitey' tape with Michelle and Barack actually did go to a madrasa in Indonesia as a child.

With Bernie, all the hyped up BS they state about him is...true. Which you may think is OK, because you agree with his policies (hell, I'm a social democrat too), but we're not the median voter.

 

[Henchmen21]

The party is picking a candidate with broader appeal... (Hint: It's not Sanders)

Hint: yes it is considering his popularity is rising and Hiliary's is shrinking.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Hint: yes it is considering his popularity is rising and Hiliary's is shrinking.

I see the maturity and discourse in this thread is only rising as well.

 

[ivysaur12]

Hiliary

I bet you thought this was so clever, which is like, kind of sad?

 

[Chariot]

Hint: yes it is considering his popularity is rising and Hiliary's is shrinking.

Hillaryious...

 

[Henchmen21]

I see the maturity and discourse in this thread is only rising as well.

I bet you thought this was so clever, which is like, kind of sad?

Just stating the truth. She's a known liar.

 

[qcf x2]

It's a pretty big negative when the result of that is helping Trump/Cruz/Rubio get 1 step closer to the white house, with a republican congress and with the ability to keep SCOTUS being controlled by Republicans for decades...

That's a hell of a negative if you actually believe in progressive ideas and values.

This is why shit won't change any time soon. Why would any candidate actually try to shake things up if they know they can get people to vote for them just so the other party/guy doesn't win, and if you don't then you don't "actually believe in progressive ideas and values?" You should vote for the candidate that you feel best represents you, no matter if you think they have no chance and you really dislike the most popular guy on the other ticket. We should be better than that.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Hint: yes it is considering his popularity is rising and Hiliary's is shrinking.

so clever of you. Right out of the right wing playbook. Man you are good.

 

[Macam]

To answer the OP, because Hillary isn't an exciting candidate. She's like a domestic Angela Merkel with more baggage.

Bernie's got my vote in the primary, and Clinton can have it in the general if and when she gets there. But honestly, I don't even care who Democrats put up in the general. Given the state of the Republican Party over the last three decades, I'd sooner vote for a pastrami sandwich than any of their candidates.

Hell, I'd even vote for Jim Webb over them.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

Everyone who is saying how much more electable Bernie is than Clinton, please consider betting on him on PredictIt.com (completely free, legal, legitimate website that's partnered with a university in the US). Buy as much stock as you want. Push that line hard so I can get Clinton shares for cheaper.

Just stating the truth. She's a known liar.

I'll give you $100 if you can list one legitimate GOP or Democratic US Presidential candidate that isn't a "known liar."

 

[JustenP88]

There's a difference between calling someone a socialist and them saying no I'm not and having videos of a guy saying he is one, calling for more taxes, more government, and other things that the American electorate straight up hates with a passion.



Did you just ignore the entire post and focus on the semantics of an analogy?

There's a difference when there's video of the guy stating he's a socialist and stuff like going to the Soviet Union for his honeymoon. Imagine if there actually was a 'whitey' tape with Michelle and Barack actually did go to a madrasa in Indonesia as a child.

With Bernie, all the hyped up BS they state about him is...true. Which you may think is OK, because you agree with his policies (hell, I'm a social democrat too), but we're not the median voter.

I think your fears are drastically overstated. Either way, they're total conjecture and I'm not prepared to put any principles aside because I'm afraid of what the big bad Republicans might do. If Bernie's baggage is that he's too liberal, I can live with that. I don't think there's enough people out there who would base their vote solely on that to make him completely unelectable.

Just stating the truth. She's a known liar.

Reducing your dissent down to shitty little nicknames doesn't do anyone any favors. It just gives the opposition an opportunity to derail.

 

[phanphare]

Did you just ignore the entire post and focus on the semantics of an analogy?

probably, yes. I just disagree strongly with the notion that voting 3rd party is someone taking their ball and going home. clearly those people are still trying to engage in the political process and are simply voting for the candidate that they feel best represents their views. that's what democracy is all about. if this were a more widespread belief and not shouted down at every turn then maybe 3rd parties could actually become a viable alternative to the two-party system we're currently hamstrung to.

 

[JesseEwiak]

I think your fears are drastically overstated. Either way, they're total conjecture and I'm not prepared to put any principles aside because I'm afraid of what the big bad Republicans might do. If Bernie's baggage is that he's too liberal, I can live with that. I don't think there's enough people out there who would base their vote solely on that to make him completely unelectable.

Of course you can live with it. You're not a woman in a red state who will lose access to Planned Parenthood or the child of a undocumented immigrant who will have to be worried everyday they'll be deported to a country they've never been too.

probably, yes. I just disagree strongly with the notion that voting 3rd party is someone taking their ball and going home. clearly those people are still trying to engage in the political process and are simply voting for the candidate that they feel best represents their views. that's what democracy is all about. if this were a more widespread belief and not shouted down at every turn then maybe 3rd parties could actually become a viable alternative to the two-party system we're currently hamstrung to.

Please Google Duverger's Law and get back to me.

 

[ivysaur12]

If Bernie's baggage is that he's too liberal, I can live with that. I don't think there's enough people out there who would base their vote solely on that to make him completely unelectable.

...But, there are? And that's the legitimate fear and one thing that gives me huge pause from supporting Bernie in the primary.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I think your fears are drastically overstated. Either way, they're total conjecture and I'm not prepared to put any principles aside because I'm afraid of what the big bad Republicans might do. If Bernie's baggage is that he's too liberal, I can live with that. I don't think there's enough people out there who would base their vote solely on that to make him completely unelectable.

Given the polling around the socialist label, I'd say my fears are at the very least founded in something. On the other hand, your dismissal of those fears is based on virtually nothing concrete. How many prominent socialists do you know of in American society? Or in government? How many other socialist candidates have even run for office nationally? It is a complete unknown factor and extremely risky.

 

[ivysaur12]

There are two Ls in Hillary and the thread title has been annoying me all day.

 

[reckless]

That's demonstrably false. There's a Gallup poll I posted yesterday. Not digging for it now, but yeah... You're way off on that.

Also, the Red Scare stuff is a non-starter and would be used against any liberal. I don't have any respect for that concern. Hillary has decades of baggage that has been aired out in the public eye. She's not well-liked outside of card carrying Democrats. That's the reality of her as a candidate. If the Republicans had a reasonable candidate to put forward, they'd wipe the floor with her.

Last year, in addition to the 29% of Americans who identified as Democrats, another 16% said they were independents but leaned toward the Democratic Party, for a combined total of 45% Democrats and Democratic leaners among the U.S. population. Likewise, 26% of Americans identified as Republicans and an additional 16% identified as independents but leaned toward the Republican Party, for a combined total of 42% Republicans and Republican leaners.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/188096/d...ource=Politics&g_medium=lead&g_campaign=tiles

So even amounts lean both ways?

You really can't just waive away the red-scare stuff, decades of propaganda worked.

Hillary being in the spotlight probably helped her if anything, everyone already knows about her and her weaknesses. Bernie hasn't been attacked nearly as much as Hillary and yet they are pretty damn close in the general election polls and she's still winning the national primary polls and most states.

 

[WalkMan]

Because she's a criminal:

http://hillaryforprison.net

 

[teruterubozu]

There are two Ls in Hillary and the thread title has been annoying me all day.

She's only lost once.

 

[dramatis]

I really don't know who I'm voting for, but I love this.

I thought you settled on Bernie lol

I'm in NY, so I've been pretty conflicted about the vote too.

I'm beginning to think that the best solution is just to drop all of this and vote for Martin O'Malley's biceps

 

[Gutek]

You seem to post a lot in the DeutschGAF |OT2| - Posting Simulator 2016 thread and bernie threads.

I guess that begs the question. Are there a lot of non-americans in these threads pushing Bernie?

I live in Illinois, dude .

 

[Aaronology]

That's demonstrably false. There's a Gallup poll I posted yesterday. Not digging for it now, but yeah... You're way off on that.

Also, the Red Scare stuff is a non-starter and would be used against any liberal. I don't have any respect for that concern. Hillary has decades of baggage that has been aired out in the public eye. She's not well-liked outside of card carrying Democrats. That's the reality of her as a candidate. If the Republicans had a reasonable candidate to put forward, they'd wipe the floor with her.

If someone said, "Ok yeah, the socialist angle is going to be an issue but I believe Bernie will defeat it because x, y, z reasons," then I'm listening. But if you're telling me Americans won't give a shit about "SOCIALISM" you're showing me you're delusional. I refuse to take opinions like these seriously, this flat out denial of where America stands on certain issues. Again, and again, and again on GAF: "The GOP calls everyone a socialist; It's not a big deal lol." How disconnected from reality can you be?

 

[ivysaur12]

Because she's a criminal:

http://hillaryforprison.net

Hillary for Prison Campaign Headquarters

1230 Main Street
Washington, D.C.
USA
E hillarysatan@gmail.com

That address is for the Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency in DC. I loled.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

GOP also said the healthcare law will have death panels. Are Americans gonna support death panels?

People expect politicians to call each other names and make shit up, but it's sure as hell a lot different when it's true.

 

[Third Strike]

probably, yes. I just disagree strongly with the notion that voting 3rd party is someone taking their ball and going home. clearly those people are still trying to engage in the political process and are simply voting for the candidate that they feel best represents their views. that's what democracy is all about. if this were a more widespread belief and not shouted down at every turn then maybe 3rd parties could actually become a viable alternative to the two-party system we're currently hamstrung to.

No, they won't. There are even state laws that discourage third parties. If this wasn't the case, Bernie would have never ran as a Democrat. Even he knows that third parties only serve as spoilers in the general election, and that's also the reason why he won't run in the GE as one, since he is aware of what the repercussions would be.

 

[phanphare]

Please Google Duverger's Law and get back to me.

hey, I'm not voting 3rd party. I support Bernie because of his views on corruption in politics. I hate the two-party system as it currently stands but that's because both sides are so corrupt. this is why you always see the "lesser of two evils" mentality. I'd love to live in a country where that phrase never has to get brought up again.

 

[rjinaz]

Because she's a criminal:

http://hillaryforprison.net

They are actually putting "Hillary-Satan" on their signs? As if their cause wasn't ridiculous enough.

 

[reckless]

This is why shit won't change any time soon. Why would any candidate actually try to shake things up if they know they can get people to vote for them just so the other party/guy doesn't win, and if you don't then you don't "actually believe in progressive ideas and values?" You should vote for the candidate that you feel best represents you, no matter if you think they have no chance and you really dislike the most popular guy on the other ticket. We should be better than that.

Shit is always changing, you don't get massive revolutions overnight. You can talk all you want about things not changing, but slowly and steadily the country has been progressing. The problem is ALL of the progress of the last decade and more can be wiped out, all it takes is a Republican appointing Judges to SCOTUS, then all of the progress that has been made in decades is gone, all of it.

There is no fall back, there would be no vetoes, no new laws from congress, no supreme court cases.

 

[ivysaur12]

I thought you settled on Bernie lol

I'm in NY, so I've been pretty conflicted about the vote too.

I'm beginning to think that the best solution is just to drop all of this and vote for Martin O'Malley's biceps

I haven't decided! I don't matter (CA), but I really don't know. If I would've been called by a polling organization three times in the past three months, I probably would've given different answers.

Weirdly, Bernie threads have a ways to make be go more Clinton, but idk idk idk, I can't let shitty supporters decide who I vote for.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

Less people would vote for a socialist than a Muslim or an atheist. I mean just think about that. More people said they'd be unwilling to vote for a socialist than to vote for one. That's the only label that's like that.
The other polls:

 

[Henchmen21]

so clever of you. Right out of the right wing playbook. Man you are good.

No the only thing out of the right wing playbook is Hillary's campaign or did you not see her recently lying and having her daughter lie about bernie's plan for single payer.

 

[JustenP88]

Of course you can live with it. You're not a woman in a red state who will lose access to Planned Parenthood or the child of a undocumented immigrant who will have to be worried everyday they'll be deported to a country they've never been too.



Please Google Duverger's Law and get back to me.

Ahhhhh, the "privileged white male" slam. We've come full circle. This conversation has clearly run its course.

...But, there are? And that's the legitimate fear and one thing that gives me huge pause from supporting Bernie in the primary.

Don't bother citing that poll that says ~50% of the country wouldn't vote for a socialist. Around ~50% of the country wouldn't vote for a liberal, a democrat, a Clinton etc...

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't think Bernie's brand of politics is less palatable to the American electorate than <INSERT REPUBLICAN PRWSIDENTIAL CANDIDATE HERE>. I think the right has been crying wolf on this stuff for so long that it doesn't carry the weight it used to.

 

[Tesseract]

Less people would vote for a socialist than a Muslim or an atheist. I mean just think about that. More people said they'd be unwilling to vote for a socialist than to vote for one. That's the only label that's like that.

obama was called a socialist

 

[BearFlexington]

So that's actually what it's about, but we're just going to pretend like her laying on her hand in a testimony is actually a thing that should matter.

It's a thing that matters to professionals, gentlemen and gentlewomen, anyone who respects the role they have been selected for, anyone who believes in body language as an effective means of communication, anybody who believes in being the bigger woman/man.

If you want, you can go back and try to pick apart the other points I made. Or not.

 

[B-Dubs]

obama was called a socialist

The difference is that Obama isn't one, Sanders freely admits he is. If you don't see the difference...

 

[ivysaur12]

Don't bother citing that poll that says ~50% of the country wouldn't vote for a socialist. Around ~50% of the country wouldn't vote for a liberal, a democrat, a Clinton etc...

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't think Bernie's brand of politics is less palatable to the American electorate than <INSERT REPUBLICAN PRWSIDENTIAL CANDIDATE HERE>. I think the right has been crying wolf on this stuff for so long that it doesn't carry the weight it used to.

So wait, don't bother citing evidence to say that people wouldn't support a socialist because reasons?

 

[teruterubozu]

obama was called a socialist

AND a supporter of leftist terrorists (Bill Ayers). It really is amazing he got elected.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

obama was called a socialist

There's a difference between being called something and being something. A Republican calling Obama a socialist wouldn't have any bearing on the poll results. Sanders declaring himself a socialist would. That's how the question is worded. "If YOUR PARTY nominated a... well-qualified preson... who happened to be ______, would you vote for that person?"

 

[JustenP88]

If someone said, "Ok yeah, the socialist angle is going to be an issue but I believe Bernie will defeat it because x, y, z reasons," then I'm listening. But if you're telling me Americans won't give a shit about "SOCIALISM" you're showing me you're delusional. I refuse to take opinions like these seriously, this flat out denial of where America stands on certain issues. Again, and again, and again on GAF: "The GOP calls everyone a socialist; It's not a big deal lol." How disconnected from reality can you be?

I'm not denying that there's a portion of the population that would be legitimately afraid of that. I'm arguing that there's a significant overlap between those people, and the people that wouldn't have voted (D) anyways.

I live in, arguably, the most conservative state in the country. If we're going to be overly concerned about what spooks the GOP base, then we need to ditch Bernie and Hillary.

 

[Aaronology]

obama was called a socialist

He was also called a Muslim. Still is. Which tells us that attacks that are denied and that most people believe to be untrue have little effect.

Is Bernie going to run away from the socialist association like Obama did?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

obama was called a socialist

This is just going to go in circles. How both sides don't realize this by now I really don't know what you're all hoping to accomplish.

"People won't vote for a socialist"
"Obama was called a socialist"
"Well yeah he was but there's x, y, z reasons why it's not the same"

???

"People won't vote for a socialist"
"Obama was called a socialist"
"Well yeah he was but there's x, y, z reasons why it's not the same"

And we just go on and on and on in circles until people stop posting in the thread.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Ahhhhh, the "privileged white male" slam. We've come full circle. This conversation has clearly run its course.



Don't bother citing that poll that says ~50% of the country wouldn't vote for a socialist. Around ~50% of the country wouldn't vote for a liberal, a democrat, a Clinton etc...

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't think Bernie's brand of politics is less palatable to the American electorate than <INSERT REPUBLICAN PRWSIDENTIAL CANDIDATE HERE>. I think the right has been crying wolf on this stuff for so long that it doesn't carry the weight it used to.

All I see from this is conjecture with nothing to back it up.

 

[Days like these...]

Ahhhhh, the "privileged white male" slam. We've come full circle. This conversation has clearly run its course.

I'm not a "privileged white man" I'm Latino I know the risks and I support Bernie nonetheless. Don't feel bad.

 

[teruterubozu]

There's a difference between being called something and being something. A Republican calling Obama a socialist wouldn't have any bearing on the poll results. Sanders declaring himself a socialist would. That's how the question is worded. "If YOUR PARTY nominated a... well-qualified preson... who happened to be ______, would you vote for that person?"

Except he calls himself a "democratic socialist." It doesn't matter anyway cuz yes he will be labeled a PURE socialist by the GOP (and I guess Hillary supporters).

 

[ivysaur12]

It's a thing that matters to professionals, gentlemen and gentlewomen, anyone who respects the role they have been selected for, anyone who believes in body language as an effective means of communication, anybody who believes in being the bigger woman/man.

If you want you can go back and try to pick apart the other points I made. Or not.

And in a Veterans Affairs Committee?!

what a fucking monster

I'm harping on this point because it's an example of the ergregious bullshit I was talking about beforehand. It's so unbelievably stupid and petty that someone would actually bring this up as a reason not to vote for someone that I can't believe it was actually uttered by a person who was trying to make a legitimate point.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Except he calls himself a "democratic socialist." It doesn't matter anyway cuz yes he will be labeled a PURE socialist by the GOP (and I guess Hillary supporters).

You must have a lot of faith in voters if you think they know what the hell a democratic socialist even is. Is this the same people who reply they want to bomb the city from Aladdin or that Ted Cruz was born in American despite himself saying he was born in Canada?

 

[Henchmen21]

Everyone who is saying how much more electable Bernie is than Clinton, please consider betting on him on PredictIt.com (completely free, legal, legitimate website that's partnered with a university in the US). Buy as much stock as you want. Push that line hard so I can get Clinton shares for cheaper.


I'll give you $100 if you can list one legitimate GOP or Democratic US Presidential candidate that isn't a "known liar."

Bernie. So how bout my $100 now?

I think your fears are drastically overstated. Either way, they're total conjecture and I'm not prepared to put any principles aside because I'm afraid of what the big bad Republicans might do. If Bernie's baggage is that he's too liberal, I can live with that. I don't think there's enough people out there who would base their vote solely on that to make him completely unelectable.



Reducing your dissent down to shitty little nicknames doesn't do anyone any favors. It just gives the opposition an opportunity to derail.

I was once cordial to Hillary supporters but months and months of condescension and bs soured me.

So wait, don't bother citing evidence to say that people wouldn't support a socialist because reasons?

The 50% not voting for a socialist are most likely voting republican so I don't see how that matters. And has been stated innumerable times before, that the rights constant abuse of the word over the past 8 years has rendered it meaningless as an attack.

 

[ivysaur12]

The 50% not voting for a socialist are most likely voting republican so I don't see how that matters. And has been stated innumerable times before, that the rights constant abuse of the word over the past 8 years has rendered it meaningless as an attack.

Well it was 53%, and then you've already lost. Obama only won in 2012 with 51.1% of the vote.

 

[teruterubozu]

You must have a lot of faith in voters if you think they know what the hell a democratic socialist even is. Is this the same people who reply they want to bomb the city from Aladdin or that Ted Cruz was born in American despite himself saying he was born in Canada?

It's not like Hillary's a master of getting her message across either. She's still evil abuela or something