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[RedSparc]

As a HRC supporter, I am 1000% fully ready to vote for Sanders assuming he is the nominee. I will (again) wait three hours in line in podunksville, Arkansas to vote for someone who has no chance of winning the state because it's that important. If someone is currently a Democrat and/or liberal and currently supports HRC but won't support Sanders (and instead abstains), then they are an idiot. Straight up.

In response to the rest of your post- yes, that's how politics works. Things CAN change quite easily (although in this case, it's unlikely to happen). Why do people care about what Sanders supporters do? Because most of us are essentially on the EXACT SAME SIDE and EVERY VOTE MATTERS. This isn't a game. It's pretty fucking important who the next President of the US is. Personally, I don't give a shit if I absolutely despise a candidate. I'm not trying to vote for someone that I can have a beer with. I want someone who represents my beliefs and will fight for them. If I have to vote for the "best case scenario" candidate, then I will. Refusing to vote and letting the absolute worst case scenario candidate win isn't heroic. It's how we end up barely losing to George W. Bush.

There are numerous Sanders supporters on GAF that have said they will vote for Clinton in the GE. Far more then those who have said they will stay home. So HRC supporters need get the fuck out of my face with the lame posts generalizing Sanders supporters as conceded as a means to feel righteous.

 

[phanphare]

I'd really like to know the ages of all the Bernie-or-bust posters. I'm guessing all of them are under 30, probably under 25.

They don't really remember the horrors of the Bush years or all the hard work progressives have been doing for decades. Not voting is the reason Obama has had 6years with almost nothing getting done and Republicans dominating pretty much all of government but he White House.

I'd really like to see a list of the so-called Bernie-or-bust posters. I'm not saying they don't exist but surely they aren't as numerous as the posts alluding to them.

 

[JesseEwiak]

How is this even possible? I only ask because I've seen you say it a few times the last few days. Is it just a "leaving my mind open" kind of thing? Because I would consider you one of the most enthusiastic Hilary supporters on GAF. Don't think I have ever seen you take the side of Sanders in discussion once. Or is it somebody else you may vote for? Genuinely curious.

If it looks like Hillary is winning easily, I'll probably just vote for Bernie in the Washington caucuses.

 

[SneakersSO]

Sanders supporters not voting for Clinton, however makes absolutely no sense. One would figure they would prefer any Democrat to a Republican, but apperently they don't care enough to vote for a good option if their favorite doesn't win.It really shows how some Bernie supporters don't really care about the country making progress, and just support him cause he's the underdog or something like that. It's a very irrational position to hold.

I am a Bernie supporter, and I absolutely care about the country making progress. I want a liberal, progressive candidate to win who holds the same stances & views that I do on subjects that are important to me. In this sense, I would actually GLADLY vote for Hillary IF she didn't have a track record which proves she will absolutely turn against her publicly stated stances, or be in support of corporate interests, when push comes to shove.

One of the common threads of logic I notice among Bernie supporters is tired they've become with democratic candidates getting elected into office at every level, but largely ignoring the large social, systemic issues that plaque the US at this point in time. I loved President Obama, and am happy with how much he accomplished during his time, but there have been domestic issues I felt he was absolutely weak in, and I want a President that takes those causes head on to the best of his ability. I also feel he leaned into corporate interest on way too many occasions, and her track record points to her potentially doing the same.

 

[ivysaur12]

How is this even possible? I only ask because I've seen you say it a few times the last few days. Is it just a "leaving my mind open" kind of thing? Because I would consider you one of the most enthusiastic Hilary supporters on GAF. Don't think I have ever seen you take the side of Sanders in discussion once. Or is it somebody else you may vote for? Genuinely curious.

I genuinely like Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders as candidates and would support either one.

I think that Hillary Clinton has been unrightfully vilified by some on this board to the point where it's annoying to see her record distorted. I don't think things such as torching her for her evolution on gay rights, while we just kind of let of Obama and Bernie do whatever on it because idk she's a neocon or something.

The only issue I really care about is electability for a Democrat. I will vote for the Democratic candidate who is polling best/I believe has the best shot in the general election once it comes to my primary. I need a Democrat to win, and do well enough to get a large enough majority in the Senate and the House to pass actual liberal legislation. I don't know who that is yet, and I'm still dubious of Bernie's GE numbers.

Also, my primary is one of the last, so it doesn't matter.

 

[JesseEwiak]

I am a Bernie supporter, and I absolutely care about the country making progress. I want a liberal, progressive candidate to win who holds the same stances & views that I do on subjects that are important to me. In this sense, I would actually GLADLY vote for Hillary IF she didn't have a track record which proves she will absolutely turn against her publicly stated stances, or be in support of corporate interests, when push comes to shove.

One of the common threads of logic I notice among Bernie supporters is tired they've become with democratic candidates getting elected into office at every level, but largely ignoring the large social, systemic issues that plaque the US at this point in time. I loved President Obama, and am happy with how much he accomplished during his time, but there have been domestic issues I felt he was absolutely weak in, and I want a President that takes those causes head on to the best of his ability. I also feel he leaned into corporate interest on way too many occasions, and her track record points to her potentially doing the same.

Actual political science scholarship shows politicians don't actually turn their back on their stated campaign promises all that much - Obama never actually promised single payer, but he did promise a surge in Afghanistan. But then again, maybe all the people disappointed in Obama got shuttled to a different draft of his platform.

Again, give me the political strategy that will convince the 60th Democrat in the Senate (probably Ben Nelson) and the 218th Democrat in the House (a Blue Dog Democrat from a suburban Southern district) to vote for a more liberal plan than Obama passed, when they're already dealing with town halls where 2/3 of the audience think it's already a socialist takeover.

The ACA is a crappy sausage of a bill, but it was the best thing that could've been passed, give or take a small tweaks. Period.

 

[DeadPhoenix]

I'd really like to see a list of the so-called Bernie-or-bust posters. I'm not saying they don't exist but surely they aren't as numerous as the posts alluding to them.

Does it count if I plan to vote third party(aka green party, thankfully I can vote in the democratic primaries in my state anyways without being registered as one) if Hilary wins the primaries? Of course that was my plan before Bernie announced his candidacy, as i did in 2004 and 2012... Obama got me to vote democrat 2008(being half black probably help... and fuck these people calling Bernie supporters white, as if that somehow proves a point).

 

[Epsilon-delta]

I'd really like to see a list of the so-called Bernie-or-bust posters. I'm not saying they don't exist but surely they aren't as numerous as the posts alluding to them.

They're not as numerous from what I've seen in OT.

Bernie supporters get generalized for whatever reason.

I'm a 35 yr. old minority with a teenager in high-school, and yet I've somehow been reduced to a young, privileged white guy who will sit at home in the general if Bernie isn't the nom.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I have a good feeling many of these people saying they won't vote for Clinton if Bernie doesn't get the nomination are not a reliable group of voters. Even Bernie will vote for Clinton if she gets the nomination, and will encourage his base to do the same, because Bernie is smart enough to know the implications of not voting in the upcoming election. I have some issues with Clinton, but I will vote for her 100x over, then to vote for a Republican, or to not vote at all. There are too many things at stake to sit out the upcoming election. Any progress made in the past eight years will vaporize if a GOP president gets in (which will also indicate a GOP-controlled Congress).

I don't have "some issues" with clinton. I have A LOT, of issues with Clinton, as a candidate and as a politician.

I don't think that "vote for hillary or else the GOP will win!" is a valid argument. It feels like it will just be a convenient excuse next time as well because the same people will come out and say the same things about how liberals and progressive positions are unelectable and we should stick with a corporate tool again or else the bad GOP will win, and the country never changes because it keeps happening.

It just all comes back to the basic thing i'm trying to say.

Bernie is not a perfect candidate, and i've already had my times years ago when i straight had to leave politics because i had to deal with the fact that his gun record wasn't spotless and he wasn't the saint i had thought him to be, evangelizing is a hell of a drug.

But he's the best chance this country has by far, and i'm happy to be supporting him.

Going back to the point of the thread. Bernie with his viewpoints on taking on the corporate interests, is already in a far better position viewpointwise when fighting against the forces trying to stop this country from being reformed.

We can talk about iffy records on guns votes and commitment to marriage equality, but the actual corruption of this country due to the banking sector, the oil and gas industry, and credit card companies is by far the most important thing about the system that needs to be reformed today.

Without that, it doesn't matter what justices you have on board, legislation can be crafted above them like TPP that just makes people's lives harder.

 

[BearFlexington]

What? No it wasn't. It was even admitted to being nothing more than a political farce by the right wing.

If the 6 or so investigations prior to the hearing didn't find that she did anything wrong, what was the hearing going to find? There was less investigation done about 9/11 than there was about Benghazi.

TBH if the hearing was about the cost of toilet paper in the Pentagon, her posturing wouldn't have been appropriate. I don't like Hillary. I don't like the slimy tactics she used against Obama in 2008. I don't think she's genuine and I can't imagine a scenario in which she would get my vote.

 

[rjinaz]

I genuinely like Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders as candidates and would support either one.

I think that Hillary Clinton has been unrightfully vilified by some on this board to the point where it's annoying to see her record distorted. I don't think things such as torching her for her evolution on gay rights, while we just kind of let of Obama and Bernie do whatever on it because idk she's a neocon or something.

The only issue I really care about is electability for a Democrat. I will vote for the Democratic candidate who is polling best/I believe has the best shot in the general election once it comes to my primary. I need a Democrat do win, and do well enough to get a large enough majority in the Senate and the House to pass actual liberal legislation. I don't know who that is yet, and I'm still dubious of Bernie's GE numbers.

Also, my primary is one of the last, so it doesn't matter.

Thanks for explaining. Yeah I mean I have my mind made up, but for me, Hillary or Sanders it's a win for this country and so much better than anybody on the other side it makes me want to laugh.

Yeah I don't like the way states are so separated in time between voting because it makes the results pointless. It's already been said that whoever is in the lead on Super Tuesday is gong to take it so it really makes me wonder why bother voting at all? Showing support I guess.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

I am a Bernie supporter, and I absolutely care about the country making progress. I want a liberal, progressive candidate to win who holds the same stances & views that I do on subjects that are important to me. In this sense, I would actually GLADLY vote for Hillary IF she didn't have a track record which proves she will absolutely turn against her publicly stated stances, or be in support of corporate interests, when push comes to shove.

One of the common threads of logic I notice among Bernie supporters is tired they've become with democratic candidates getting elected into office at every level, but largely ignoring the large social, systemic issues that plaque the US at this point in time. I loved President Obama, and am happy with how much he accomplished during his time, but there have been domestic issues I felt he was absolutely weak in, and I want a President that takes those causes head on to the best of his ability. I also feel he leaned into corporate interest on way too many occasions, and her track record points to her potentially doing the same.

But you understand that if Clinton gets the nomination, and democrats don't show up to vote, that any progress that has been made under Obama will be lost and the country will only regress even more right?

Because thatis what you are supporting if you decide to not vote if Clinton gets the nomination.

You are ensuring that your progressive beliefs will not be actionable for decades to come.

Instead of pulling the country towards the middle, the country will just be pulled farther right.

Is that really something you want to see happen? Because that is exactly what you are promoting when you state that you would rather not vote if Clinton gets the nomination.

 

[ivysaur12]

TBH if the hearing was about the cost of toilet paper in the Pentagon, her posturing wouldn't have been appropriate. I don't like Hillary. I don't like the slimy tactics she used against Obama in 2008. I don't think she's genuine and I can't imagine a scenario in which she would get my vote.

So that's actually what it's about, but we're just going to pretend like her laying on her hand in a testimony is actually a thing that should matter.

 

[Third Strike]

I have a question for the Hillary supporters, especially now in light of more recent polls in early primary states. Lets say the shoe is on the other foot, and Bernie winds up winning the nomination - are many of you going to vote for Bernie regardless? I have a gut feeling that many of the people chiding Bernie supporters for refusing to vote in the general should he not win will say they'd rather for a democrat than see a republican get in office.

I'm actually jealous, in a way - I wish I could comfortably get out there & vote for Hillary without reservation should she be the Democratic Nominee in the general, but I just can't do it. If you're willing to do so, or even go the reverse way and vote for Bernie if Hillary doesn't win the primary, then that means you have a candidate you feel confident enough to vote for. I, unfortunately, don't.

The system is set up to favor two political parties in the country. It's also the reason why Bernie had to register as a Democrat to even be a viable candidate. Like I said earlier, I realize the many faults Clinton has as a candidate, but I also realize how batshit insane the GOP are. I fault Clinton for holding the status quo, but the GOP are hellbent on doing the opposite, and pushing America back to the 1960's. With a GOP controlled White House and Congress, expect any progress made to vanish in at least two years times. If you're a minority, immigrant, low-income or someone who isn't a cisgendered heterosexual male, expect many of your rights to be overturned in the guise of "states rights".

You're free to vote for whomever you want, but remember that the GOP have had the same turnout numbers from at least 2004. At this point, if you decide to not vote, or to vote for a third party like the Green Party, you're pretty much voting for the GOP. We should work together to get the best candidate for the job, but understand that if you're a liberal or progressive, we should all be working towards the same goal, which is assuring that the GOP don't gain control of the country. Take time to read about the impact the Reagan and Bush II years had on us, and then remember what a GOP candidate, which is further to the right than both of the aforementioned, would do to this country.

I'm voting Sanders in the primary, and I do hope he secures the nomination. If not, then it is Clinton. I have to much too lose to do otherwise.

 

[Gutek]

Can you name one genuinely exciting policy, proposal or idea she stands for?

That should answer your question.

 

[AlphaDump]

Because most of the vocal Sanders people on the internet are young, white, male yuppies using one man to vocalize their frustrations of the world. I like Sanders and he would make a fine president but let's not act like Bernie is a saint and Hilary is the devil. No matter what, we need a democrat in the white house.

I finally understand the whole #NotMyAbuela talking point that bernie supports have been tossing around. It doesn't cater to them so they shit all over it.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Can you name one genuinely exciting policy, proposal or idea she stands for?

That should answer your question.

She has an autism plan that actual autistic advocates have championed, she has a college plan that isn't perfect, but is still more liberal than current day, wants to continue Obama's immigration exemptions for the children of undocumented immigrants, etc.

This is real change. It's small, incremental, and kind of boring. But it improves the lives of millions of people.

 

[phanphare]

Does it count if I plan to vote third party(aka green party, thankfully I can vote in the democratic primaries in my state anyways without being registered as one) if Hilary wins the primaries? Of course that was my plan before Bernie announced his candidacy, as i did in 2004 and 2012... Obama got me to vote democrat 2008(being half black probably help... and fuck these people calling Bernie supporters white, as if that somehow proves a point).

I'm sure people will chastise you with the usual "a 3rd party vote is a vote for the republicans" but I personally wouldn't count that as taking your ball and going home. voting for the candidate that you agree most with should never be a negative imo.

 

[Gutek]

She has an autism plan that actual autistic advocates have championed, she has a college plan that isn't perfect, but is still more liberal than current day, wants to continue Obama's immigration exemptions for the children of undocumented immigrants, etc.

This is real change. It's small, incremental, and kind of boring. But it improves the lives of millions of people.

So nothing exciting, just boring.

 

[reckless]

I'm sure people will chastise you with the usual "a 3rd party vote is a vote for the republicans" but I personally wouldn't count that as taking your ball and going home. voting for the candidate that you agree most with should never be a negative imo.

It's a pretty big negative when the result of that is helping Trump/Cruz/Rubio get 1 step closer to the white house, with a republican congress and with the ability to keep SCOTUS being controlled by Republicans for decades...

That's a hell of a negative if you actually believe in progressive ideas and values.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Luckily I don't live in Ohio and can vote third party if I want (Im in texas). Im not going to say I will never vote Hillary. We have yet to see her debate the right wing on a stage in ALL these years.

 

[ivysaur12]

So nothing exciting, just boring.

Helping people with autism: Boring!!

 

[HylianTom]

Still no answer on that court issue, aside from the improbable "pack the courts" answer (which is better than "we'll lobby SCOTUS!").

Shocked, I tell you. Absolutely shocked. If you don't get your way in 2016, you're willing to blow it all up for the future. Nice.

 

[JustenP88]

It's a pretty big negative when the result of that is helping Trump/Cruz/Rubio get 1 step closer to the white house, with a republican congress and with the ability to keep SCOTUS being controlled by Republicans for decades...

That's a hell of a negative if you actually believe in progressive ideas and values.

At what point do we stop getting mad at people for not liking a candidate and start getting mad at the party for not producing a candidate with broader appeal?

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Helping people with autism: Boring!!

Has to be something exciting like possible nuke area, seems like that is what he is looking for.

 

[User1608]

So nothing exciting, just boring.

As someone who benefitted from DACA, an executive action of President Obama, it's far from being boring for me and hundreds of thousands of others. The rest is good too. Forget those other people I guess. Those things listed alone make Hillary a pretty darn decent alternative (at least!) to any of the Republican candidates.

 

[Gutek]

Helping people with autism: Boring!!

First off, he used the word himself.
Secondly, yes, it is nothing that will excite or inspire the masses.

 

[dramatis]

Can you name one genuinely exciting policy, proposal or idea she stands for?

That should answer your question.

Forget "genuinely exciting", can you name any of Hillary's policies, proposals, or ideas?

Policy, legislation, and negotiations aren't exciting, but they're pretty important. The Republicans' leading candidate is incredibly exciting, but that doesn't mean he's someone you should be enthusiastic about.

 

[Gutek]

Forget "genuinely exciting", can you name any of Hillary's policies, proposals, or ideas?

Policy, legislation, and negotiations aren't exciting, but they're pretty important. The Republicans' leading candidate is incredibly exciting, but that doesn't mean he's someone you should be enthusiastic about.

I can get pretty excited about the following:

Free education
Single payer healthcare
Police reform
Curbing Wall Street
No boots on the ground in the Middle East
Etc

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

First off, he used the word himself.
Secondly, yes, it is nothing that will excite or inspire the masses.

And by what authority do you state these things? Are you a psychic? Mind reader? Spokesman for the masses?

 

[reckless]

At what point do we stop getting mad at people for not liking a candidate and start getting mad at the party for not producing a candidate with broader appeal?

The party is picking a candidate with broader appeal... (Hint: It's not Sanders)

 

[ivysaur12]

First off, he used the word himself.
Secondly, yes, it is nothing that will excite or inspire the masses.

Considering 1 and 68 children are diagnosed with autism, it's potentially a huge deal to millions of families.

But it's not breaking up the banks, no.

 

[JesseEwiak]

I can get pretty excited about the following:

Free education
Single payer healthcare
Police reform
Curbing Wall Street
No boots on the ground in the Middle East
Etc

Cool. Explain how Bernie Sanders is going to convince the 50th vote in the Senate or 218th vote in the House, who in the best scenario will be a moderate Democrat from a small midwestern or Western state to vote for those things, when a majority of his or her state or district will likely be against those things.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Cool. Explain how Bernie Sanders is going to convince the 50th vote in the Senate or 218th vote in the House, who in the best scenario will be a moderate Democrat from a small midwestern or Western state to vote for those things, when a majority of his or her state or district will likely be against those things.

Political Revolution!

 

[JustenP88]

The party is picking the candidate with the broader appeal... (Hint: It's not Sanders)

I take it you're anticipating Hillary doing well with people not registered as Democrats in the GE? Yeah, I'm not seeing that. She's not ticking those boxes now. She's a known commodity. I'm interested in seeing how she's going to reinvent herself to suddenly win independent support between now and November.

 

[Gutek]

Cool. Explain how Bernie Sanders is going to convince the 50th vote in the Senate or 218th vote in the House, who in the best scenario will be a moderate Democrat from a small midwestern or Western state to vote for those things, when a majority of his or her state or district will likely be against those things.

Sorry, but I thought we were talking about the lack of enthusiasm for Hillary, not the perils of getting legislation passed.

 

[That1BlackGuy]

I'll preface this with saying that I am not super heavy into politics (or at most casual) so forgive me.

For me I don't know what her views are yet on wall street, wealth inequality, general underemployment, wage stagnation, youth unemployment/underemployment, minimum wage, etc. and how they stack up against Sanders. These issues are by far the most important to me (and more or less determine who I vote for) and Sanders has admittedly won me over in that regard. I am not inherently opposed to Hilary, but in terms of the issues or core issue I care about Sanders has made a stronger impression on me. So concerning Hilary it's more of issue of time and getting that info than anything.

The issues above is what I expected Obama to address and while he made some strides I'll give him his due, I really feel like he didn't shake anything up; the prevalent economic pains are still there.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Sorry, but I thought we were talking about the lack of enthusiasm of Hillary, not the perils of getting legislation passed.

..and I'm excited about the idea of sleeping with Jessica Alba. Doesn't mean it can happen.

 

[RedSparc]

Sorry, but I thought we were talking about the lack of enthusiasm of Hillary, not the perils of getting legislation passed.

Touché

 

[Epsilon-delta]

..and I'm excited about the idea of sleeping with Jessica Alba. Doesn't mean it can happen.

This isn't a compelling argument.

Sounds like something a young, privileged white guy would say!

 

[reckless]

I take it you're anticipating Hillary doing well with people not registered as Democrats in the GE? Yeah, I'm not seeing that. She's not ticking those boxes now. She's a known commodity. I'm interested in seeing how she's going to reinvent herself to suddenly win independent support between now and November.

Most independents are just Republicans that got turned off by the Republican label. She has a hell of a better chance of winning some of them over than 'Socialist' Bernie Sanders. Anways, right now you can see that Hillary has a lot more diverse support then Sanders, and thats what is going to win the Presidential election.

 

[phanphare]

It's a pretty big negative when the result of that is helping Trump/Cruz/Rubio get 1 step closer to the white house, with a republican congress and with the ability to keep SCOTUS being controlled by Republicans for decades...

That's a hell of a negative if you actually believe in progressive ideas and values.

if a potential democratic voter decides to vote 3rd party in a general election because that's where their views are best represented I don't blame that person, I blame the democratic party. you can't blame someone for voting for the candidate that best represents their views no matter how many times you say "but-but-but republicans".

 

[AlphaDump]

First off, he used the word himself.
Secondly, yes, it is nothing that will excite or inspire the masses.

You seem to post a lot in the DeutschGAF |OT2| - Posting Simulator 2016 thread and bernie threads.

I guess that begs the question. Are there a lot of non-americans in these threads pushing Bernie?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

if a potential democratic voter decides to vote 3rd party in a general election because that's where their views are best represented I don't blame that person, I blame the democratic party. you can't blame someone for voting for the candidate that best represents their views no matter how many times you say "but-but-but republicans".

The Democratic party has lots of different voters to appeal to. What about black conservatives? What about hispanics that care about immigration? What about blue dog or "Reagan Democrats" in Ohio? You can't just say I want it my way or I'm taking my ball and going home, especially if you're not the majority voting bloc in the party. It's about compromise and coalition building that leads to everyone getting progressively closer to their goals.

 

[Dunedain_Ranger]

I see it as picking the lesser of two or three or whoever runs evils.

 

[reckless]

if a potential democratic voter decides to vote 3rd party in a general election because that's where their views are best represented I don't blame that person, I blame the democratic party. you can't blame someone for voting for the candidate that best represents their views no matter how many times you say "but-but-but republicans".

You can... it's pretty easy. I can easily blame someone for being a naive idealist while ignoring the real consequences their decisions that can effect millions of people. Because they decided getting 80% of what they want isn't enough.

At least until the political system in the U.S changes to allow more choices, but that is never going to happen.

 

[And_Gignac]

They're not as numerous from what I've seen in OT.

Bernie supporters get generalized for whatever reason.

I'm a 35 yr. old minority with a teenager in high-school, and yet I've somehow been reduced to a young, privileged white guy who will sit at home in the general if Bernie isn't the nom.

Polls show that young women are the biggest supporters of Sanders proportionally against Clinton, and yet the stereotype persists. Yes, a fuck ton of while college males are very vocal about their support for Sanders, but they are not the only demographic he appeals.

 

[JustenP88]

Most independents are just Republicans that got turned off by the Republican label.

That's demonstrably false. There's a Gallup poll I posted yesterday. Not digging for it now, but yeah... You're way off on that.

Also, the Red Scare stuff is a non-starter and would be used against any liberal. I don't have any respect for that concern. Hillary has decades of baggage that has been aired out in the public eye. She's not well-liked outside of card carrying Democrats. That's the reality of her as a candidate. If the Republicans had a reasonable candidate to put forward, they'd wipe the floor with her.

You seem to post a lot in the DeutschGAF |OT2| - Posting Simulator 2016 thread and bernie threads.

I guess that begs the question. Are there a lot of non-americans in these threads pushing Bernie?

Grrrrrrr God damn commies

 

[dramatis]

I can get pretty excited about the following:

Free education
Single payer healthcare
Police reform
Curbing Wall Street
No boots on the ground in the Middle East
Etc

Hillary proposed criminal justice reform with her first speech in the campaign. She also proposed a plan for capital gains tax reform, which aimed at altering Wall Street behavior towards less short term oriented investment.

Free education and single payer healthcare can be 'exciting', but are unfeasible with the current political environment of the US. If you can only be enthused by fantasies, then I don't know what to say. You're probably better off voting in the midterms, but of course, you can't be 'enthused' about 'boring' candidates who could simply just be the votes to get the 'exciting' legislation you want.

The Middle East is complicated. Straight up withdrawing from the ME isn't really going to help.

 

[phanphare]

The Democratic party has lots of different voters to appeal to. What about black conservatives? What about hispanics that care about immigration? What about blue dog or "Reagan Democrats" in Ohio? You can't just say I want it my way or I'm taking my ball and going home, especially if you're not the majority voting bloc in the party. It's about compromise and coalition building that leads to everyone getting progressively closer to their goals.

I don't consider voting 3rd party as taking their ball and going home. someone taking their ball and going home would likely amount to, oh I don't know, staying home on election day.

You can... it's pretty easy. I can easily blame someone for being a naive idealist while ignoring the real consequences their decisions that can effect millions of people. Because they decided getting 80% of what they want isn't enough.

At least until the political system in the U.S changes to allow more choices, but that is never going to happen.

I'd say that toeing the party line at all costs is more naive than voting 3rd party