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[EuroMIX]

I'd buy it for Wind Waker, but I've played TP twice now (GC and Wii) and don't want to play it again. Still trying to trudge through Skyward Sword. Some of the worst designed puzzles without good hints that I've seen in a Zelda game. Series needs a reboot ASAP.

To be honest, the only places where I had major issues were the first temple and the last, though I kind of expected it in the latter's case.

In terms of the Zelda HD Collection, I think a Virtual Console release of Wind Waker would be sufficient (possibly with wide-screen support?) seeing as the other two are playable natively on the Wii U.

 

[Pineconn]

Still trying to trudge through Skyward Sword. Some of the worst designed puzzles without good hints that I've seen in a Zelda game. Series needs a reboot ASAP.

Can't tell if trolling, or...

 

[lord]

From what's left, Peer Schneider is good. He's still there, right? Head of the gaming side or something like that?



I'd buy it for Wind Waker, but I've played TP twice now (GC and Wii) and don't want to play it again. Still trying to trudge through Skyward Sword. Some of the worst designed puzzles without good hints that I've seen in a Zelda game. Series needs a reboot ASAP.

I was under the impression the series is rebooted very often? Wind waker was a reboot, twilight prices was a back to roots reboot, I have not played SS.

 

[ArynCrinn]

I was under the impression the series is rebooted very often? Wind waker was a reboot, twilight prices was a back to roots reboot, I have not played SS.

None of those were reboots though, they were all clear derivations on OoT's core structure and gameplay, TP shamelessly so. Majora's Mask went the furthest in that direction, but it was still very much the same gameplay and flow. They haven't veered the structure or raw gameplay very far since LttP, which laid the formula and "structure", and when moved to 3D OoT. We're still waiting on a real reboot.

On a Zelda HD collection, those three wouldn't be my choices. If it had to be three, and presumably 3D-only, my picks would be Majora's Mask, Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, I think these benefit both my tastes and the move to HD. But Zelda 1, Zelda 2, and LttP need their own upscaled releases as DD.

 

[GiantEnemyGoomba]

Still trying to trudge through Skyward Sword. Some of the worst designed puzzles without good hints that I've seen in a Zelda game. Series needs a reboot ASAP.

Joke post?

 

[Antagon]

Skyward sword wasn't perfect (seemed to have too much padding mainly) but it's puzzles were great. And my problem with the hints was that they gave too many.

 

[ArynCrinn]

Skyward sword wasn't perfect (seemed to have too much padding mainly) but it's puzzles were great. And my problem with the hints was that they gave too many.

I agree, Skyward Sword had some of the best puzzle and dungeon design in Zelda history, albeit sometimes hit and miss in some areas. But first time I've heard a complaint about the game not giving enough hints.

 

[Aostia]

Lots of great and encouraging impressions in that "Wii U event" thread

Well, I was really disappointed by E3 conference and I'm still very disappointed by the lack of solid support for 2013, but after having play it at one of those "Event" I have to admit that the console, the gamepad, the titles available for the launch window are really interesting and fun. If the price will be right/good I think that it cuold really become the next Christmas gift.
Btw, I'm still really scared about how often I'll turn it on after the launch window, due to their total secrecy about furhter support after March 13...and considering that the number of interesting titles was the worst problem of the Wii due to third party absence, I'm still really concerned about this aspect.

I don't think EA is giving Wii U anything but EA Sports and Mass Effect.

I agree, withint the end of 2012 we'll just get ME3, Madden and Fifa. I really hope they'll surprise us with an early '13 title.

 

[watershed]

Has anyone else seen this quote that third party wii u launch games wil run native 1080p? I just saw a tweet about it. Supposedly from a Nintendo rep but I feel like they can never be trusted.

 

[The_Lump]

Has anyone else seen this quote that third party wii u launch games wil run native 1080p? I just saw a tweet about it. Supposedly from a Nintendo rep but I feel like they can never be trusted.

I think this was dealt with on the previous page, and EC's comment sums it up quite well. Reps generally don't know much about the tech side of what they're showing. If its running on a 1080p (capable) TV or even been scaled to fit 1080p, then thats enough to confuse some into thinking its outputting native 1080p.

Unless this is somthing else and not a rep thats said it? In which case colour me shocked.

Edit: This post from EatChildren is what I'm talking about:

I think the rep who told him typically didn't know the actual resolution the game was displaying in. For a lot of people "displaying in high definition" is easily confused as "displaying on 1080p", as 1080p is generally the resolution marketed as HD. Plus the Wii U technically outputs at 1080p, and it may have technically been playing on a 1080p screen (thus upscaled).

Until the developers specify that the game natively renders in 1080p, I will by default assume all games are running in 720p, with the exception of the most simple (eg: Scribblenauts).

 

[AniHawk]

I really hope they'll surprise us with an early '13 title.

maybe tiger woods '13?

 

[Aostia]

maybe tiger woods '13?

Yes! That should definetly be that Tps/Fps rumored title (think about Wii Sport golf camera!)

 

[Sadist]

Yes! That should definetly be that Tps/Fps rumored title (think about Wii Sport golf camera!)

Uh, I don't think that game was a sports title. I'd say action title.

 

[AniHawk]

Uh, I don't think that game was a sports title. I'd say action title.

madden nfl '14 then.

 

[Canis lupus]

Has anyone else seen this quote that third party wii u launch games wil run native 1080p? I just saw a tweet about it. Supposedly from a Nintendo rep but I feel like they can never be trusted.

I'm pretty sure they won't. There was a list somewhere showing the resolution of various Wiiu games, I believe there was only 1 in 1080p. It was either tank tank tank or that project P100 game.

 

[DjRoomba]

I'm pretty sure they won't. There was a list somewhere showing the resolution of various Wiiu games, I believe there was only 1 in 1080p. It was either tank tank tank or that project P100 game.

Hey guys, there is absolutely zero discernable difference between 720p and 1080p when you play 10 feet away on a big screen tv. If you think there is its a placebo effect

 

[The_Lump]

Hey guys, there is absolutely zero discernable difference between 720p and 1080p when you play 10 feet away on a big screen tv. If you think there is its a placebo effect

I think you are right to an extent and that depends on the screen size as much as anything else. On a 47" + LCD/LED panel you really can tell the difference, even at 12 feet away (if you know what you're looking for) but even then they lay-person isnt going to be able to notice an improvement. Most of the difference comes in because some screens are simply better at displaying 1080p than they are 720p nowadays. You can see less motion juddering and things like that in some cases, but you will rarely notice differences in detail unless you have a huge screen/sit really close.

 

[Sheroking]

Hey guys, there is absolutely zero discernable difference between 720p and 1080p when you play 10 feet away on a big screen tv. If you think there is its a placebo effect

If I can tell the difference between 720p and 1080p YouTube feeds on a 23.5 inch LED computer monitor from 10 feet away, I will able to tell the difference on a 42 inch LCD television.

 

[CrispyXUK]

lol

 

[EatChildren]

Hey guys, there is absolutely zero discernable difference between 720p and 1080p when you play 10 feet away on a big screen tv. If you think there is its a placebo effect

Luckily I don't sit three meters away from my TV when I game.

 

[Plinko]

Hey guys, there is absolutely zero discernable difference between 720p and 1080p when you play 10 feet away on a big screen tv. If you think there is its a placebo effect

I have a 65-inch TV and play from about that distance. When I play a 720p game like Skylanders the difference is huge to me.

 

[blu]

Melchiah found this monkey.

A golden lion tamarin. The basis for Thunder Monkey.

Why is that monkey giving me the finger? Have I not been kind and merciful to her?

 

[SmokyDave]

Hey guys, there is absolutely zero discernable difference between 720p and 1080p when you play 10 feet away on a big screen tv. If you think there is its a placebo effect

There's no difference between 480p and 720p if you sit a mile or two away.

Meanwhile, in my living room, the difference is noticeable.

 

[Glass Joe]

Hey guys, there is absolutely zero discernable difference between 720p and 1080p when you play 10 feet away on a big screen tv. If you think there is its a placebo effect

Pretty sure I read a study that if it's a 32" TV or less, there's no noticeable difference for people. That probably assumes average eyesight as well - I'm sure some on the board will swear up and down that they can tell. But certainly if you have a larger screen, you should be able to tell.

But the processing power required vs the reward I don't think (personally) is as drastic as 480p vs 720p. And eh, I rock a 32" so 1080p personally isn't a big deal.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Pretty sure I read a study that if it's a 32" TV or less, there's no noticeable difference for people. That probably assumes average eyesight as well - I'm sure some on the board will swear up and down that they can tell. But certainly if you have a larger screen, you should be able to tell.

But the processing power required vs the reward I don't think (personally) is as drastic as 480p vs 720p. And eh, I rock a 32" so 1080p personally isn't a big deal.

I've got 32" and can tell the difference 'just'.. but not so much I'm going to cry about it and vent my pitiful self loathing on NeoGaf for all to see. Anyone with a 50" screen should be made to pay carbon tax and wash BP oil out of the eyes and plumage of innocent wildlife oil spill victims.

 

[metalslimer]

People do realize that the jump between 720p and 1080p in terms of pixel count isn't that much different than the jump between 480p and 720p? I can tell the difference on a 22 inch computer monitor. Of course I'm sitting pretty close to it, but I don't sit that much father away for my 32 inch tv.

 

[ugoo18]

Looks like we need some new news fast.

 

[EatChildren]

Pixel comparison / relativity.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

People do realize that the jump between 720p and 1080p in terms of pixel count isn't that much different than the jump between 480p and 720p?

It kind of is! The difference between 480p and 720p is 576,000 pixels, and the difference between 720p and 1080p is 1,152,000 pixels.

 

[Donnie]

People do realize that the jump between 720p and 1080p in terms of pixel count isn't that much different than the jump between 480p and 720p? I can tell the difference on a 22 inch computer monitor. Of course I'm sitting pretty close to it, but I don't sit that much father away for my 32 inch tv.

True, the jump between 480p and 720p is 2.66x while the jump from 720p to 1080p is 2.25x so its a similar increase. But diminishing returns means that the visible difference isn't nearly as obvious.

Note: I'm defining 480p as 720x480. If you consider it to be 640x480 the difference between 480p and 720p would be a full 3x.

 

[The_Lump]

People do realize that the jump between 720p and 1080p in terms of pixel count isn't that much different than the jump between 480p and 720p?

480 to 720 is a 200% increase and 720 to 1080 is around 125% increase in pixels, so its definitely not academic. on anything above 37" and an average viewing distance (~12ft) you will be able to tell the difference.

The flipside is, the processing power required to supply that extra resolution compared to the actual visual improvment it provides is pretty lopsided. And framerate is usually the first thing to go out of the window.

Edit:

It kind of is! The difference between 480p and 720p is 576,000 pixels, and the difference between 720p and 1080p is 1,152,000 pixels.

Thats not really seeing the whole picture (no pun intended). As my above example shows, 720 was triple the pixels of 480, 1080 was just over double 720.

Edit 2: Beaten by Donnie

 

[Rösti]

From a GamesIndustry.biz interview with Bing Gordon:

Q: Do you think the next generation of consoles can bring back the level of sales we saw in 2008?

Bing Gordon: I think it's possible. One of the things that we saw in from '95 to '08 was that a high percentage of console gamers owned two. If you were a family with young kids you only owned Nintendo. Other than that, Nintendo always had a great game so real gamers felt liked they had to own a Nintendo no matter what. Maybe PlayStation and Xbox you only had to have one of them. For a while there you owned Xbox for shooters and Halo, and Sony for sports and cars.

We may have now reached a point where a lot of gamers are back to feeling like they only have to have one. Back in the days of Nintendo versus Sega most gamers felt they only needed one TV system, and then of course everybody kind of needed a GameBoy. We may have the same number of households, and the same tie ratio of systems, but fewer systems per house. I think handhelds are going to come under pressure from phones, and TV's going to come under pressure from tablets. I think what's going to happen is increasingly consoles are going to be primarily 3D systems rather than all, and handhelds will be primarily puzzles rather than all. Just as we saw back in the day with PCs, PC games began losing categories. I think we're kind of beginning, like PCs - PCs lost categories over a decade - we're probably starting to see the beginning of attrition of categories on console. That said, Xbox Live is a consumer miracle.

Q: What do you think of the Wii U's chances this Christmas and beyond, especially facing tablets like the Nexus 7 for $199 that are pretty good game devices? Is that going to make it tough for the Wii U?

Bing Gordon: I think Nintendo's already on track to become primarily a software company. We saw that with Sega back in the day; Sega made some missteps and became primarily a software company. Nintendo hasn't really made missteps, Nintendo probably has better creative talent and better leadership now than Sega did. It's got the most robust business model, the best creative talent; Miyamoto's still the best in the business. Apple's most directly competitive with Nintendo. So far, when Miyamoto makes a perfect game, in his career he makes games worth $200 - it's worth buying a system for. I think the handheld is going to be under a lot of pressure. I can imagine a day when Nintendo wonders - and maybe it's generational change - when Nintendo wonders if they ought to take some of their best games and make 'em apps.

Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-07-23-game-industry-legends-bing-gordon

 

[The_Lump]

Not sure if old:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/07/nnooo_approved_for_wii_u_development

"Once these games are completed we'll be prototyping some ideas for the Wii U to get a feel for what we can do. We've already had a quick play with the hardware and everyone in the studio is super impressed by the GamePad and the capabilities of the Wii U itself."

 

[Nibel]

They just need to price it reasonable and I can see it selling gangbusters

 

[Bony Manifesto]

The flipside is, the processing power required to supply that extra resolution compared to the actual visual improvment it provides is pretty lopsided. And framerate is usually the first thing to go out of the window.

Going from 480p to 720p is pretty lopsided too when you compare it to the resolution increase of the previous generation (320x240 to 640x480).

 

[The_Lump]

From a GamesIndustry.biz interview with Bing Gordon:
Bing Gordon: I think Nintendo's already on track to become primarily a software company. We saw that with Sega back in the day; Sega made some missteps and became primarily a software company. Nintendo hasn't really made missteps, Nintendo probably has better creative talent and better leadership now than Sega did. It's got the most robust business model, the best creative talent; Miyamoto's still the best in the business. Apple's most directly competitive with Nintendo. So far, when Miyamoto makes a perfect game, in his career he makes games worth $200 - it's worth buying a system for. I think the handheld is going to be under a lot of pressure. I can imagine a day when Nintendo wonders - and maybe it's generational change - when Nintendo wonders if they ought to take some of their best games and make 'em apps.

So....Nintendo haven't done anything wrong yet, but they are still 'on track' to do a Sega? Who is this dude?

Going from 480p to 720p is pretty lopsided too when you compare it to the resolution increase of the previous generation (320x240 to 640x480).

Yep. but I have no frame of reference for that as i dont know what the implications were on processing power from back then - i was too young to care!

 

[Donnie]

From a GamesIndustry.biz interview with Bing Gordon:


Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-07-23-game-industry-legends-bing-gordon

Nintendo "I wonder, should we sell 10m copies of a game at $50 each with full profits going to my company or should we sell 20m copies at $5 and give Apple 30%?.. hmm do I want $500m or $70m? I know, ask "Bing" Gordon!"

 

[Nibel]

From a GamesIndustry.biz interview with Bing Gordon:


Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-07-23-game-industry-legends-bing-gordon

Unnecessary to create a thread about this, but whatever

 

[Bony Manifesto]

Yep. but I have no frame of reference for that as i dont know what the implications were on processing power from back then - i was too young to care!

Well, the point I was trying to make is that pixel counts have always been increasing exponentially, and this problem of diminishing returns didn't just suddenly occur with 1080p, as a lot of people seem to think.

Of course that's a separate issue to whether 1080p games will be commonplace on the Wii U, and of that, I think it's pretty obvious that they won't. If something like Mario Mii isn't running at 1080p, I don't much else will be...

 

[Rösti]

Unnecessary to create a thread about this, but whatever

Well, it's the season for it anyway with Wednesday being earnings release day. Also, gotta balance that good news - bad new ratio. *smirk*

 

[Nibel]

Well, it's the season for it anyway with Wednesday being earnings release day. Also, gotta balance that good news - bad new ratio. *smirk*

GGRRRRRRROAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!

Was this posted yet?

Wii U might be released in November according to GameStop release sheet

Nintendo's Wii U console could be released in mid-November 2012, according to a GameStop new release sheet that details the upcoming software releases for the console.

The list, which was distributed to GameStops around the US for internal use, shows at least 14 Wii U games with planned release dates ranging from November 2012 to January 2013, with the earliest being November 14. Some of the games on the list include Batman Arkham City: Armored Edition, Tank! Tank! Tank!, A Super Mario Bros. game, Ninja Gaiden 3, and Assassin's Creed 3.

Release dates sent to retailers are not always accurate and the dates listed are only when they are anticipated to be in store. Nintendo has not announced an official release date for the Wii U, although it is expected in the 2012 holiday season. If the list happens to be right, it looks like the Wii U might receive a November release.

Source

Shocking neeeeews!

 

[Karsticles]

People do realize that the jump between 720p and 1080p in terms of pixel count isn't that much different than the jump between 480p and 720p? I can tell the difference on a 22 inch computer monitor. Of course I'm sitting pretty close to it, but I don't sit that much father away for my 32 inch tv.

Well, after shopping for a 50" TV, I can sure notice it.

 

[Earendil]

From a GamesIndustry.biz interview with Bing Gordon:


Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-07-23-game-industry-legends-bing-gordon

Why are they listening to the guy Microsoft named their search engine after?

 

[The_Lump]

Well, the point I was trying to make is that pixel counts have always been increasing exponentially, and this problem of diminishing returns didn't just suddenly occur with 1080p, as a lot of people seem to think.

Of course that's a separate issue to whether 1080p games will be commonplace on the Wii U, and of that, I think it's pretty obvious that they won't. If something like Mario Mii isn't running at 1080p, I don't much else will be...

Of course. I'm just not aware of how much of an issue the resolution bump caused back then. Could have been more of an issue for all I know.

I just think, for this next generation at least, we aren't going to see 1080p become the standard because at the moment the processing cost outweighs the visual benefit for a massive portion of the userbase.

There are still games which are upressed to reach 720p, such is the burden of actually outputtung that resolution natively compared to smaller resolutions.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

GGRRRRRRROAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!

Was this posted yet?

Wii U might be released in November according to GameStop release sheet



Source

Shocking neeeeews!

LOL NSMBU at $100....or maybe it's packed with something? A November 14th release date sounds possible since I'm sure Nintendo wants to get the system out in time for Black Ops 2, which is coming on the 13th.

 

[schuelma]

Looks like FIFA 13 info is coming out right now- seems possible the EA Sports embargo has expired or will be expiring soon.

 

[Sadist]

About time...

 

[blu]

If I can tell the difference between 720p and 1080p YouTube feeds on a 23.5 inch LED computer monitor from 10 feet away, I will able to tell the difference on a 42 inch LCD television.

Healthy human vision acuity is commonly referred to as 530DPI @ 20", or in metric: 530DPI @ 0.5m (we'll keep DPI as the standard measure for displays & printers). At 10 feet (3m) you get 1/6th the linear resolution (arc-resolution remains the same), or 88DPI.

A 23.5" monitor would be 20" x 12.5" (W x H in 16x10 format), which means that at 10 feet you can hope to see as much as 1760 pix x 1100 pix, or IOW 1080p is already of dubious value to you but yes, it should still have advantages over 720p (assuming you have a perfectly healthy vision, of course).

At 4m distance things degrade further - linear resolution becomes 1/8th of 530DPI = 66DPI, or IOW you can hope to see as much as 1325 pix x 828 pix. Basically, your vision acuity is met by 720p (again, assuming perfectly healthy vision).

Now, imagine how many tech-savvy people have perfectly healthy vision these days (hint: spending the better time of your day in front of a monitor does not help) and you can see how the majority of those people can be ok with 720p at 40"-ish diagonals at 3-4m distances, and not see much benefits from higher resolutions.

 

[lostinblue]

I'm pretty sure they won't. There was a list somewhere showing the resolution of various Wiiu games, I believe there was only 1 in 1080p. It was either tank tank tank or that project P100 game.

Pretty sure Rayman Legends is 1080p.

I think P-100 is 720p, looks really good though, perhaps they could hit 1080p had it been using tesselation. The low poly upclose characters tell me that not to be the case.

Now, imagine how many tech-savvy people have perfectly healthy vision these days (hint: spending the better time of your day in front of a monitor does not help) and you can see how the majority of those people can be ok with 720p at 40"-ish diagonals at 3-4m distances, and not see much benefits from higher resolutions.

You're not taking into account we gamers like to play really close to our tv sets, like 30 cm distance

We'll always want more; we're already talking about the next big thing, which is Ultra High Definition Televisions @ 7680×4320; needing it or not is besides the point seeing it's consumerism at work.


Then there's different concepts around vision limits. Sure you can only see 1325x825 at the distance you stated (thanks for the numbers, btw, never dwelled too much into it), but that's kinda like saying the human being can see 24 frames in movement per second (hence how movies get away with it), if you feed him 24 still frames per second though, we'll notice, hence why we go for 60/120 frames per second for videogames; so our eyes recombine the images into a movement perception that suits them. If you had a game running at double that res, 2650*1650 it would probably appear crisper, even if you couldn't make out more pixels, there would be simply more detail there for your eyes to pick up; and actually; at native resolution/if you're picking all detail present you'll notice the lack of AA, if it's running at double the res (or more) you probably won't.

1280x720 with AA is probably a better tradeoff than 1920x1080 without AA though, I agree.

 

[DekuLink]

None of those were reboots though, they were all clear derivations on OoT's core structure and gameplay, TP shamelessly so. Majora's Mask went the furthest in that direction, but it was still very much the same gameplay and flow. They haven't veered the structure or raw gameplay very far since LttP, which laid the formula and "structure", and when moved to 3D OoT. We're still waiting on a real reboot.

On a Zelda HD collection, those three wouldn't be my choices. If it had to be three, and presumably 3D-only, my picks would be Majora's Mask, Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, I think these benefit both my tastes and the move to HD. But Zelda 1, Zelda 2, and LttP need their own upscaled releases as DD.

If they change the formula too much it will not really be Zelda anymore though.

Though I agree that Zelda could benefit from some change. Personally I don't think the direction they took with skyward sword was the right one. Because Zelda has always been an Adventure series for me, that should rely on exploring a big open world. Somehow Skyward felt too linear to me. Too much puzzle/platformer and too litte adventure.

But that's just me

I hope that with the increased power the Wii U has they can make a Zelda game that really gives that great feeling of exploration again that you imagined in the first Zelda games and OoT the first time.