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[heynow12]

I agree that Nintendo doesn't have many series that would benefit greatly by having a very realistic tone when it's come to graphics, but those that could use it most efficiently are (in my opinion):

• Eternal Darkness (heavy on atmosphere and ambience)
• F-Zero (think Project CARS graphics)
• Geist (haven't got any suggestions here, but feels like a "heavy on the graphics" title)
• Pikmin (see below)

Pikmin with a lush, photorealistic forest would be a day one purchase for me.

Better graphics doesnt have to neccessarily mean "more realistic" graphics. On a HD console with something like Mario they can put in lots of cartoony effects (squash n stretch), lots of lighting effects, motion blur, hell they could even change the scope of the game a little bit. Make the world less linear and very large and detailed in size. I dunno if they actually will do any of these things but they could.

 

[AzaK]

WW, TP, and SS all run at 30fps afaik.
I think OoT runs even lower. (24fps?)

There's no need for 60fps in a Zelda game. Zelda needs the hardware for vast, detailed and immersive environments.
30fps is fine imo.

OK, if SS is running at 30, then I'll give on that point because it felt smoother to me......but in that case I'll settle for no less than 10 MILLION Deku Baba's per frame.

 

[GameplayWhore]

It seems to be just a reassurance that AMD is creating the GPU for Wii U, but I won't hold Google Translate as a firm source. So maybe someone that knows Japanese could provide a better translation.

From somebody who used to follow AMD like a ... well, like a rabid Nintendo fanboy, this is kind of surreal. I know they're doing it because they bought ATi, which has had tons of dealings in the console space. But a little over a decade ago, just before Microsoft made their big hardware unveil for the Xbox, AMD's somewhat pompous founder and chief Jerry Sanders made an incredibly public winky-winky-nudge comment essentially saying that they had the deal in the bag. Way it seems to have happened, this massive foot-in-mouth comment led to Intel making an eleventh hour deal, losing them the contract.

It's weird to see them with a dominating influence on consoles nowadays.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I just hope and pray that Nintendo doesn't fall into that "every game needs online" mindset.

Ahahaha, of all the companies out there it's hard to imagine Nintendo being that way anytime soon.

 

[AceBandage]

It would just be like MS's "every game needs online" mentality.
You just have to be able to access friends lists and stuff while in game.

 

[Jackano]

WW, TP, and SS all run at 30fps afaik.
I think OoT runs even lower. (24fps?)

OoT is 20fps I think, with drops to around 15 if not 12 ^^". And 50Hz in PAL land too, of course. Perfect example of fps not needed for making a good game.

 

[AceBandage]

OoT is 20fps I think, with drops to around 15 if not 12 ^^". And 50Hz in PAL land too, of course. Perfect example of fps not needed for making a good game.

No, but the difference between OoT and OoT3D is insane in terms of how smooth it plays and how well its animated.

 

[ReyVGM]

Hehe, thanks ^^

As for the Wii, I think what made many gamers abandon it was the games, at least that's how it was for me. IMHO it has the worst library of any stationary Nintendo console. Maybe it's just my tastes but I can name about five must have games for it whereas both the N64 and the Gamecube had many amazing exclusive titles. I sold mine after playing Twilight Princess when it came out many years ago and only bought one again for Skyward Sword/Xenoblade, in the years in between there was just nothing I really wanted to play on it, it seemed like all games were casual games. I find this ironic because now Nintendo finally gets their (much deserved considering the low sales of the N64 & NGN) big success and then there are very few great games made for it compared to their older consoles, that sold very badly in comparison.

Many people who are not really into games bought a Wii to play WiiFit, Just Dance, Mario Party, Cooking Mama etc.. Nintendo, or rather third parties, focused too much on that type of games and neglected "hardcore" games (sorry, I hate that word but can't think of anything else). It worked out at first & the Wii sold like hot cakes but it came back to bite them in the butt when "gamers" abandoned the console.
It seems like with the WiiU Nintendo is trying hard to find a middle ground, so hopefully they can make it work. If they make it just powerful enough and design the hardware to allow easy ports from the next Xbox/PS, and develop a well designed online system that would solve most of their problems I think.

So you completely ignored 3rd party hardcore games such as Silent Hill Silent Memories, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, No More Heroes 1 & 2, Mad World, Murasame, Red Steel 2, Tales of Symphonia 2, among others?
And I'm not even mentioning lots of 1st party games you didn't play either.

Granted, the Wii had a lot of shovelware, but it had enough good hardcore games (from 2010 and below at least) to satisfy anyone. After 2010, that's another story though.

Unless you mean the Wii didn't have the dudebro games that came out on the PS360. In that case, yeah, the console was not for you.

 

[blu]

From somebody who used to follow AMD like a ... well, like a rabin Nintendo fanboy, this is kind of surreal. I know they're doing it because they bought ATi, which has had tons of dealings in the console space. But a little over a decade ago, just before Microsoft made their big hardware unveil for the Xbox, AMD's somewhat pompous founder and chief Jerry Sanders made an incredibly public winky-winky-nudge comment essentially saying that they had the deal in the bag. Way it seems to have happened, this massive foot-in-mouth comment led to Intel making an eleventh hour deal, losing them the contract.

It's weird to see them with a dominating influence on consoles nowadays.

Would've been even weirder if AMD had not sold their handheld division (the 'imageon' department).

 

[StevieP]

Shovelware just means a platform is successful. By volume, I think the Wii sold the most software this generation still. PS2 took that crown last generation, by leaps and bounds. Lots of shovelware there too. Hell, some of that shovelware got sloppily ported to Wii hahaha.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

There's no need for 60fps in a Zelda game. Zelda needs the hardware for vast, detailed and immersive environments.
30fps is fine imo.

I agree. However if Retro get Zelda, it;ll be 60fp.

 

[Übermatik]

Zelda does NOT need to be 60fps. Stop it. You're being greedy.

 

[ReyVGM]

Shovelware just means a platform is successful. By volume, I think the Wii sold the most software this generation still. PS2 took that crown last generation, by leaps and bounds. Lots of shovelware there too. Hell, some of that shovelware got sloppily ported to Wii hahaha.

Yeah, the PS1, PS2, GBC, GBA all had an incredible amount of shovelware, but everyone just focused on the good games.

 

[EuroMIX]

No, but the difference between OoT and OoT3D is insane in terms of how smooth it plays and how well its animated.

I know that it's probably a sacrilege, but I prefer OoT3D to the original, especially the fact that Nintendo decided to localise the PAL release in British English; I love extra touches like that.

In fact my only gripe with the game while playing was that I ended up thinking "damn, I wish that I could play Majora's Mask like this".

 

[Lingitiz]

So you completely ignored 3rd party hardcore games such as Silent Hill Silent Memories, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, No More Heroes 1 & 2, Mad World, Murasame, Red Steel 2, Tales of Symphonia 2, among others?
And I'm not even mentioning lots of 1st party games you didn't play either.

Granted, the Wii had a lot of shovelware, but it had enough good hardcore games (from 2010 and below at least) to satisfy anyone. After 2010, that's another story though.

Unless you mean the Wii didn't have the dudebro games that came out on the PS360. In that case, yeah, the console was not for you.

2010 was seriously an amazing year for the Wii. The software releases were well paced, and third parties started to play to the strengths of the platform. Sadly it only lasted one year as the obvious transition of teams to Wii U happened.

 

[Saint Gregory]

It's not about hw vs sw BC - it's about the host architecture meeting the exact timing requirements of the emulated hw. If Wii/cube software could enjoy this little latency when accessing the 1t-sram pool in a random fashion, then the host machine darn better be able to meet that. Or else uncertainty and breakage awaits (read: many man-hours of re-QA-ing all darn games, and eventually - limited BC title lists).

ps: to all people discarding the fact the future belongs to real GI rendering - give it up, resistance is futile.

OK, that makes sense. I have wondered why Nintendo wouldn't go the emulated BC route when Dolphin runs so well across a broad range of PCs. Surely Nintendo could do better with total access to the hardware and software right?

 

[AceBandage]

OK, that makes sense. I have wondered why Nintendo wouldn't go the emulated BC route when Dolphin runs so well across a broad range of PCs. Surely Nintendo could do better with total access to the hardware and software right?

Because Dolphin does not run well across a broad range of PCs.
Many games are broken, unplayable, or simply won't run.
And each game would need its own version of the emulator.

 

[StevieP]

OK, that makes sense. I have wondered why Nintendo wouldn't go the emulated BC route when Dolphin runs so well across a broad range of PCs. Surely Nintendo could do better with total access to the hardware and software right?

Dolphin is a lot sloppier than you think... (and I say that with love, I am a heavy user of the emulator and have played through plenty of games 100% on it). HLE will always be that way, even with access to all hardware information.

And each game would need its own version of the emulator.

That too. Fixes for games are game-specific. The emulators Nintendo uses on the VC are done per-game.

 

[Rösti]

Shovelware just means a platform is successful. By volume, I think the Wii sold the most software this generation still. PS2 took that crown last generation, by leaps and bounds. Lots of shovelware there too. Hell, some of that shovelware got sloppily ported to Wii hahaha.

I'm eerily reminded of things like Action Girlz Racing, Cruis'n, Ninjabread Man and Petz, to name a few. As a video game salesman, I had to sell that while wanting to put a Safety Hazard sticker on the covers. These titles may not feature as abysmal qualities as found in for example Action 52 or Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing, but they are extremely good examples of satisficing and nothing I would recommend to people seeking a nice and rewarding gameplay experience. I can only hope certain developers won't find easy money in Wii U's allegedly satisfactory portability. Well, at least not for the launch (window).

 

[StevieP]

I'm eerily reminded of things like Action Girlz Racing, Cruis'n, Ninjabread Man and Petz, to name a few. As a video game salesman, I had to sell that while wanting to put a Safety Hazard sticker on the covers. These titles may not feature as abysmal qualities as found in for example Action 52 and Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing, but they are extremely good examples of satisficing and nothing I would recommend to people seeking a nice and rewarding gameplay experience. I can only hope certain developers won't find easy money in Wii U's allegedly satisfactory portability. Well, at least not for the launch (window).

As much as we hate it, there needs to be an outlet for all software. If the platform is successful, you will see shovelware like Ninjabread Man 2, Sadness or Call of Duty find a home there.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Because Dolphin does not run well across a broad range of PCs.
Many games are broken, unplayable, or simply won't run.
And each game would need its own version of the emulator.

Dolphin is a lot sloppier than you think... (and I say that with love, I am a heavy user of the emulator and have played through plenty of games 100% on it). HLE will always be that way, even with access to all hardware information.



That too. Fixes for games are game-specific. The emulators Nintendo uses on the VC are done per-game.

I've hed good experiences with it running on several PCs now so I didn't realize the overall results were that bad. It probably helps that pretty much every game I play on it are popular enough to warrant special attention.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

As much as we hate it, there needs to be an outlet for all software. If the platform is successful, you will see shovelware like Ninjabread Man 2, Sadness or Call of Duty find a home there.

..wut?

Just because you don't like Call of Duty, does not make it shovelware..

 

[bgassassin]

Que?

Si.

I hope there's some graphical muscle behind each Nintendo effort. Other than Zelda and Metroid...I can't imagine which license will benefit most. I can't imagine the Galaxy games looking any nicer (cept running in higher resolution) considering its artstyle. I'm so unimaginative.

Zelda/Metroid = realistic

Mario/Pikmin = Pixar

Wait, what? Put this back on, dammit.

nnnnooooooooo...

Oh and in response to the other part of your post, the current API seems to be ES 2.0 w/ parts of GLSL 3.3.

 

[Box]

Tales of Symphonia 2

I heard this game was so bad that speaking it is a taboo. They don't even mention it in Media Create where they've go down the history of each Japanese franchise every time a game gets released.

 

[StevieP]

I heard this game was so bad that speaking it is a taboo. They don't even mention it in Media Create where they've go down the history of each Japanese franchise every time a game gets released.

I played through Tales 2, in co-op as well. Great game. Not as amazing as the original but great game.

..wut?

Just because you don't like Call of Duty, does not make it shovelware..

Expensive shovelware?
(I have put hundreds of hours into it on multiple platforms this generation)

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I heard this game was so bad that speaking it is a taboo. They don't even mention it in Media Create where they've go down the history of each Japanese franchise every time a game gets released.

It's an inarguable step-down, but it's not pure trash or anything unless you're one of those people that likes to describe things only in extremes.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

After using the Circle Pad Pro for the 3DS for over an hour, I can say that I look forward to using dual circle pads with the Wii U. I love these circle pads. The're comfortable and just feel great.

 

[Bullza2o]

Call of Duty is as casual as you can get with shooters.

It would be very funny if CoD Wii U would have vastly superior graphics than the 360 version, but I expect that to happen. However, with Activision being buddies with MS, MS will probably have enough dough to keep promoting the 360 version and perhaps influence how they port the game to the Wii U.

Spoiler

I would seriously get a COD Wii U. Screw XBL fees

 

[Mokka]

As much as we hate it, there needs to be an outlet for all software. If the platform is successful, you will see shovelware like Ninjabread Man 2, Sadness or Call of Duty find a home there.

Ah my favorite vaporware title. I hope it gets re-announced for Wii U.

The game you never played on Wii now unplayable on Wii U.

EDIT: BTW shovelware describes software that is quickly produced and therefore often lacks quality. It's not the same as mainstream or casual games.

 

[AceBandage]

Ah my favorite vaporware title. I hope it gets re-announced for Wii U.

The game you never played on Wii now unplayable on Wii U.

They never even got Wii dev kits.
What a joke.

 

[BY2K]

Isn't OoT 3D 60fps?

 

[EuroMIX]

Mario/Pikmin = Pixar

Pikxar?

What a joke.

WHAT A BUNCH OF JOKERS

Why have I never heard of this Sadness game before? Was there even any info of what it was about?

 

[Rösti]

Isn't OoT 3D 60fps?

I believe it's ≤30 FPS in 3D. In 2D I don't know.

 

[Terrell]

I think with Mario hitting 60fps and looking gorgeous this gen, Nintendo might want to give Zelda a turn at it. Even at 60fps and the resources that takes to make happen, I still think it will be gorgeous. And let's be honest, Nintendo really gives a shit about IQ and gives it the same importance as graphics, so I think we should expect it to happen.

I'm eerily reminded of things like Action Girlz Racing, Cruis'n, Ninjabread Man and Petz, to name a few. As a video game salesman, I had to sell that while wanting to put a Safety Hazard sticker on the covers. These titles may not feature as abysmal qualities as found in for example Action 52 or Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing, but they are extremely good examples of satisficing and nothing I would recommend to people seeking a nice and rewarding gameplay experience. I can only hope certain developers won't find easy money in Wii U's allegedly satisfactory portability. Well, at least not for the launch (window).

What puzzled me is that game retailers keep BUYING that crap expecting it to sell, only for it to hit bargain bin in MASSIVE quantities. It's not a good business model by any stretch of the imagination.

Speaking of boneheaded retailers, I'm surprised at the lack of talk about downloadable retail games. There's a lot of facets to that conversation, and GOD DAMMIT could we use a break from the hardware talk, srsly.

 

[Mokka]

They never even got Wii dev kits.
What a joke.

Arkam is a Nibris developer confirmed?

Spoiler

Just joking...I actually kind'a believe the close to (well not really less) XBox360 performance statement.

 

[bgassassin]

Pikxar?



WHAT A BUNCH OF JOKERS

Why have I never heard of this Sadness game before? Was there even any info of what it was about?

You make bad jokes like AceB... me. I like you already. Besides it would obviously be Pixman.

And it's a shame you are not familiar with one of the greatest vaporware titles ever conceived.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnBp8j4BscI


Yeah I'm rested up and beat Ace.

 

[AceBandage]

Pikxar?



WHAT A BUNCH OF JOKERS

Why have I never heard of this Sadness game before? Was there even any info of what it was about?

Only videos staring real people and stolen art.

Arkam is a Nibris developer confirmed?

Spoiler

Just joking...I actually kind'a believe the close to (well not really less) XBox360 performance statement.

Even the most conservative remark by developers is a step above.

 

[StevieP]

It's only 720p, but at least it has AA:

 

[ReyVGM]

2010 was seriously an amazing year for the Wii. The software releases were well paced, and third parties started to play to the strengths of the platform. Sadly it only lasted one year as the obvious transition of teams to Wii U happened.

I don't think it was a transition to Wii U at all.

Those 2010 games were in development since 2008 at least, which is about the time when developers finally realized that the Wii wasn't a fad. But by the time those games were done and released, the hardcore audience that initially bought games like Red Steel and the Resident Evils had left for the PS360. Not to mention the that fact that more and more people bought HDTVs, which really showed the graphical difference between Wii and PS360.

I heard this game was so bad that speaking it is a taboo. They don't even mention it in Media Create where they've go down the history of each Japanese franchise every time a game gets released.

It was absolutely not bad. If you like Tales games, then you'll like this one. If you don't like Tales games, then yeah, you won't like it.

 

[shnord]

You know what, I had entirely forgotten about the BC aspect these past days. Now that you reminded me, it does make sense that something should fill-in for the 1t-sram. Not only that, but flipper's very own edram should be accounted for as well. The gpu should either have a fat texture cache block on top the edram pool, or the cpu and the gpu should somehow have concurrent 'fast' paths to edram, via some kind of partitioning scheme, akin to L3 in power7. Or.. Was it Thraktor who insisted on separate edram pools? Hmm..

Considering the total 1T-SRAM in GameCube/Wii is 27 MB (24+3), here are some (baseless) possibilities concerning the 32 MB eDRAM rumor:

- 32 MB of new eDRAM on top of 3 MB 1T-SRAM
- 24 MB eDRAM + 8 MB 1T-SRAM (would still do 1080p in a single pass)
- simply a single 32 MB 1T-SRAM chip
- hax

BTW I've been wondering, is there something stopping 1080p with 2xMSAA being done in a single pass with 32 MB eDRAM? It should just fit into 32 MB with 368 KB left (assuming I'm calculating it properly). Is more space leftover required for some sort of overhead?

 

[frostbyte]

After using the Circle Pad Pro for the 3DS for over an hour, I can say that I look forward to using dual circle pads with the Wii U. I love these circle pads. The're comfortable and just feel great.

Yeah but are they as good as contemporary analog sticks? And afaik, they still lack L3/R3 clicky sticks. Personally, I don't mind if the circle pads but I don't really want an excuse for 3rd parties to slack out on Wii U games.

Was the Wii U clicky stick rumour ever verified?

 

[Gianni Merryman]

Why have I never heard of this Sadness game before? Was there even any info of what it was about?

All we haver had was just a handful of cool b&w artworks and a short teaser with no actual gameplay in it; according to their(of Nibris) statements, Sadness was some survival horror that was supposed to take advantage of Wii's motion controls in order to obtain a more immersive gameplay, e.g. you could use Wii Remote like a torch in the dark, and should have been all in black and white - that sounded cool, in fact they somehow anticipated Mad world.

Nibris was allegedly also developing another game, a shoot'em-up for Wii and DS, never heard of them since.

 

[Zero148]

You make bad jokes like AceB... me. I like you already. Besides it would obviously be Pixman.

And it's a shame you are not familiar with one of the greatest vaporware titles ever conceived.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnBp8j4BscI

Nibris is closed now, isn't it? I remember seeing this trailer a few years ago. I think it was showed during E3 2006 or 2007 and it was hilarious

wikipedia says they had 3 Wii and 3 DS games in "development" with only 14 Employees, none of them was ever released. Is there any footage for another of their games?

 

[BY2K]

Just like Project H.A.M.M.E.R.

 

[Mokka]

Even the most conservative remark by developers is a step above.

Yes but I still believe that raw power wise the Wii U could be pretty close to a 360. It will definitely feature more recent features in shader development and more texture memory (as it seems). So developers are happy because they can now use all those new nifty little GPU features but at the same time polycount and fillrate may be very similar to what we saw with the HD twins.

IMO and not a hw expert of course.

 

[StevieP]

Nibris is closed now, isn't it? I remember seeing this trailer a few years ago. I think it was showed during E3 2006 or 2007 and it was hilarious

wikipedia says they had 3 Wii and 3 DS games in "development" with only 14 Employees, none of them was ever released. Is there any footage for another of their games?

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/08/nibris-does-something-has-proof/

 

[bgassassin]

Nibris is closed now, isn't it? I remember seeing this trailer a few years ago. I think it was showed during E3 2006 or 2007 and it was hilarious

wikipedia says they had 3 Wii and 3 DS games in "development" with only 14 Employees, none of them was ever released. Is there any footage for another of their games?

Raid Over the River was the main one I remembered and it was for the DS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXbJmLepRzs

And the related videos had something called Double Bloob.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwj02i5NP78

 

[EuroMIX]

I like you already.

Well at least that makes one of us...

And it's a shame you are not familiar with one of the greatest vaporware titles ever conceived.

Which is weird because I recall being aware of Project H.A.M.M.E.R. pretty much since Nintendo unveiled it. Weird.

 

[bgassassin]

They never even got Wii dev kits.
What a joke.

Looks like that may not have been the case after all. (I thought that too by the way.)

Check out this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZaMlWjjE7Q

 

[Rösti]

Just like Project H.A.M.M.E.R.

Just like Thornado, and with the current status of Factor 5 that's not going to be released anytime soon. Unless it is what is hiding behind the TBA sign on their webpage: http://www.factor5.de/projects.shtml

Why couldn't Retro Studios just have picked up the project? Maybe it's been suggested in the thread "Retro Studios Hires Uncharted 3, Darksiders Artists. Crunch Time "This Year"". Now Thornado could be a Wii U title with much focus on good graphics, at least if it is somewhat through to the original concept (Turrican).