Again, it's old news not because it has been already posted here a couple of pages ago, but 'cause it's an interview coming from an old Nintendo Gamer issue (66, September of last year).
Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!
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nordique
Member
Especially if that means the possibility to port it to the XBOX360 or PS3.
bgassassin
Member
The only acceptable answer.
It will depend on what software compare, you should pick the best looking Xbox game and comparing with the best looking Xbox game available.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I agree that you won't be able to tell the difference in all games. For example, how much better can a game like Gran Turismo or Forza get? There's only so much detail that can go into a car model. However, you may see more detail in the environment. Things like smoke, dust, leaves blowing off the street, etc. will get better.
Remember this demo?
The leaves don't take a lot of time to create, yet the physics engine will make it look leaps ahead of anything we're seeing today. The same thing can be applied to hair, clothing, curtains, smoke, dust, etc. I'm not a developer, but we've been seeing physics demos for a long time now so I image the engines are already there. I know this is just one example, but I think it can make a profound impact and it should be included in modern engines. Now they'll finally be able to use it.
herzogzwei1989
Banned
@ IdeaMan, going by everything that has been speculated about Wii U's power, are we as 'hardcore' gamers going to be at least 'satisfied' by the hardware specs compared to 360 and PS3?
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I have a feeling Pikmin is going to be a showcase for next gen physics. Graphics and art direction have been discussed a lot about it, but I think physics will be it's real strong suit. I could completely off base though. There was a reason they moved it to Wii U. It's the most logical one I can think of.
I was too busy at previous E3's to follow nintendo's threads on GamingAge/NeoGaf before, i can't imagine the level of stellar and galactic and astonishing flood that will be reached here, seeing that just tidbits of infos trigger off 10 pages in a few hours 
The enthusiasm, the anticipation, is clearly here Big N. Don't disappoint us !
The enthusiasm, the anticipation, is clearly here Big N. Don't disappoint us !
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
So Nintendo announced their new console on April 25th and since then we've only learned that the touchscreen on the controller rumor from before the announcement was true.
That's not amazing
That's not amazing
I was too busy at previous E3's to follow nintendo's threads on GamingAge/NeoGaf before, i can't imagine the level of stellar and galactic and astonishing flood that will be reached here, seeing that just tidbits of infos trigger off 10 pages in a few hours
The enthusiasm, the anticipation, is clearly here Big N. Don't disappoint us !
You should have been here a few hours before the last Nintendo Direct - that was an amazing GAF experience.
E3 will be batshit insane on GAF, everybody here can guarantee that to you.
herzogzwei1989
Banned
I was too busy at previous E3's to follow nintendo's threads on GamingAge/NeoGaf before, i can't imagine the level of stellar and galactic and astonishing flood that will be reached here, seeing that just tidbits of infos trigger off 10 pages in a few hours
The enthusiasm, the anticipation, is clearly here Big N. Don't disappoint us !
Amen ^__^
Hey look it's the same PR we hear every generation.
More of this.
Exactly, H_Prestige. Same goes for Kinect 2 and whatever Sony's cooking up with their tablet or whatever. If it's not in the box, it's pretty much irrelevant.
So what you're saying to me is that my extremely powerful overclocked quad-core SandyBridge PC w/16GB of RAM and Dual-Crossfire high end videocards is struggling to run BF3 on Ultra with AA cranked all the way up because BF3 is only a "current gen" game? Magically, this hardware (which will remain far more powerful than all 3 next gen consoles, btw) is going to run games from 2013 and onward much better because developers will now also add 3 new boxes to their engine pipelines? I understand. Thank you for the wealth of knowledge.
Mmhmm. You're welcome.
Dude, UE4 will be based on UE3.
Nope. lol
When are "hardcore" (I hate those terms!) gamers ever satisfied?
Whenever I see screenshots of stealth games, I can't help but think back to Manhunt 2..
*insert Doc Brown chalkboard jpg*
I haven't been so excited for an E3 since 2006. This one might be another one that changes the course of Nintendo history..I was too busy at previous E3's to follow nintendo's threads on GamingAge/NeoGaf before, i can't imagine the level of stellar and galactic and astonishing flood that will be reached here, seeing that just tidbits of infos trigger off 10 pages in a few hours
The enthusiasm, the anticipation, is clearly here Big N. Don't disappoint us !
*insert Doc Brown chalkboard jpg*
herzogzwei1989
Banned
I hope Nintendo shows an extended Zelda demo at E3, that would knock my socks off my feet!
"Oh.. there's one more thing.."
(I claim dibs on this phrase to be on my E3 bingo card)
Grampa Simpson
Banned
Ok, so let's fix this mistake.
Where do you propose they put the second analog.
It would have to go where the battery is. The damn thing it's p. much packed, and it would have meant either a way bigger 3ds, or a shorter battery life.
I came to the conclusion that it should have been a thicker 3DS with a big ol' battery. Would have allowed for the second analog and l2/r2 buttons. Oh well.
Yeah i was there for the last Nintendo Direct. A real show made of texts and gifs, more entertaining than a french soap i can guarantee it
Actually, i'm here since the creation of this board, i'm a dinosaur of the web
But i didn't have the time to follow a thread like this during an E3. This time it may be different. So what, it's 100 pages per minutes of a 1 hour pre-show conference ?Ok everyone I have a new idea/speculation about the Wii U - pad.
It came to my mind that in 2006 and before the Wii era started nintendo patented or invested in a company which produces holographic projection devices.
By that time there was even speculation about the Wii using something like that...
SO, what if now the big surprise of E3 would not only be a powerful system no it will be a holographic projector inside the Wii U pad!!
And they will show it with that simple golf demo for excample, they lay down the pad and a golf-ball pops out of the screen...
Ahhhh, I would love that and there are so many ways they could use that....
And it would be a system seller for sure...
It came to my mind that in 2006 and before the Wii era started nintendo patented or invested in a company which produces holographic projection devices.
By that time there was even speculation about the Wii using something like that...
SO, what if now the big surprise of E3 would not only be a powerful system no it will be a holographic projector inside the Wii U pad!!
And they will show it with that simple golf demo for excample, they lay down the pad and a golf-ball pops out of the screen...
Ahhhh, I would love that and there are so many ways they could use that....
And it would be a system seller for sure...
It would be nice. We can pretty much guarantee 2 E3s to follow after a zelda teaser before we actually get to play it. Zelda in 2014 would be great.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
AzaK said:
Yeah. Would a 3DS with a second analog and better battery life be bigger? Yes. But it would still be a lot smaller than what we end up with by attaching things like the PowerGrip or Circle Pad Pro after the fact, and still smaller than the original model DS.Grampa Simpson said:
It would be pretty disappointing to hear we won't have multiple pads per system thanks to them costing a thousand dollars.darthdago said:
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The argument, or implication, the high tech games require a large budget to attain their visual quality is a bit of a misunderstanding as to where that money goes.
These multi-million dollar production values cost as much as they do due to the scope of production, such as the necessity for a tremendous quantity of art assets, sound composition, writing, voice work, detailed animation (especially cut scenes), and game features. You're paying for man hours, as your game contains so much 'stuff' that a lot of people need to be involved to get it finished in a timely manner. Big budget modern games dont necessarily cost more because costs over time have increased (this is still a factor), but because the scope of these games' production dwarves those of yesteryear.
Highly advanced engine tech and beefy hardware can, in many cases, make it easier and more affordable to include what used to be considered a 'big budget' feature in a game a fraction of the cost, thanks to how much can now be freely rendered in engine. The easier and more streamlined you make getting fancy effects running in your games, the less time it takes and the cheaper it costs.
There's still tremendous room to grow in rendering technology,
These multi-million dollar production values cost as much as they do due to the scope of production, such as the necessity for a tremendous quantity of art assets, sound composition, writing, voice work, detailed animation (especially cut scenes), and game features. You're paying for man hours, as your game contains so much 'stuff' that a lot of people need to be involved to get it finished in a timely manner. Big budget modern games dont necessarily cost more because costs over time have increased (this is still a factor), but because the scope of these games' production dwarves those of yesteryear.
Highly advanced engine tech and beefy hardware can, in many cases, make it easier and more affordable to include what used to be considered a 'big budget' feature in a game a fraction of the cost, thanks to how much can now be freely rendered in engine. The easier and more streamlined you make getting fancy effects running in your games, the less time it takes and the cheaper it costs.
There's still tremendous room to grow in rendering technology,
bgassassin
Member
Oh my bad. You were serious.
But this does make me wonder how good is Havok these days.
Yeah I'm not a fan of the idea either. Sounds like something Sony would try.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
BF3 is a really a next gen game though. Isn't it the first game to use Frostbite 2? I'm sure some optimizing could still be done to the engine. Look what Crytek did w/CE2 to CE3. Again, it's like comparing HL2 and Doom 3 on Xbox imo. In either case, I'll be disappointed if next gen doesn't run games like BF3 at full 1080p and 60 fps. I'm not talking about Wii U either, I'm talking about the Durango and PS4.
Wiz
Member
If this turns out to be the case, that'll open the floodgates even more for different ways to play. I don't think it'll be a system seller, but it'll definitely attract the attention of game devs to develop for the Wii U.
And take it one step further...let there be a way that you can chat with people through the holograms!
radioheadrule83
Banned
I don't know if you were joking with that but I would be down for a KatAna game. I think they'd make for a good, unique brand for Nintendo. Their game could be a ninja game with a bit of powerpuff girls about it, and an emphasis on 2 player action. A sort of kid-friendly (but not easy) cartoony co-op Ninja Gaiden, set in the weird and wonderful Wario Ware universe.
If they made the gameplay awesome and gave it some humour, it'd be great imo.
tkscz
Member
Trick question, they're never satisfied. Most "hardcore" gamers are already sick of current gen graphics. They want more MORE MORE!
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
You better buy a pc then because I would be suprised if we see 1080p at 60fps.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
Oh my bad. You were serious.
But this does make me wonder how good is Havok these days.
Yeah, I'm serious. Imagine fully destructable environments that change the game world. Imagine those little bastards taking a beetle down limb by limb and using it's own legs to beat it down with.
Good luck with that. How many SPUs do you think any of these consoles are going to have?!
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I'm prepared to be disappointed but that really will be pathetic if true. I know PCs will always be superior, but we already have BF3 on PS3/360. You really think that's asking too much? It will be at least two years old if Durango comes out fall of next year.
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
We'll probably get games that look superior to BF3 in screenshots but I don't think we'll get something on par with BF3 at 1080p locked at 60fps
bgassassin
Member
XD
I can't lie. That would be pretty awesome to see.
7950 w/stock clock.
Anything less and I'll be disappointed with next gen to the point where I quit console gaming and become PC only.
Oh my bad. You were serious.
But this does make me wonder how good is Havok these days.
Yeah I'm not a fan of the idea either. Sounds like something Sony would try.
Nahh, dont think so they only feel like they have to do it if they see success with another company.
By the way it was only an idea...
...and more or less simple holo projection doesnt cost that much anymore.
I dont talk about a holo version of a house in full color, nope let it be as simple as it can be and make only some sort of blue laser projection of a ball e.g.
(That really doesnt cost that much)
But if sony will come up with it then I'll also have to buy a PS4 after I left out the PS3.
It depends on what hardware specs hardcore gamers expect for the Wii U, compare to current gen HD.
I hope my infos helped to kill once and for all the "1x xbox360" rumor.
But they also should have assassinate the "Japanese stallion with cutting edge components of 2014".
For those, and i've seen a few on this thread, that speculate on a racehorse with a HD79XX GPU, from what i know and for the moment (and i can't imagine Nintendo saying "well, we were too conservative with our dev kits, we'll put this shiny new GPU to boost the performances" 6 months before the probable release), it will not happen. I'm sorry to burst the bubble of too eager and ecstatic people.
I think this fact is clear when i stress on the "more 2x than 5x". And lherre additional infos converge in that direction. And again, the 2x is more a measurement of a feeling of people in front of what a specific dev kit is displaying on the screens. I gave a lot of hints and warnings and details about the context where and when i gathered this info, it's at least as important as the rather vague data given.
Do you have any examples of actual holo tech? Or a source?
herzogzwei1989
Banned
Welcome, my brother! lmao
2000-ish SPUs at 800mhz would melt these boxes, but it would be awesome!
GhostTrick
Banned
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
If next gen systems do not cause radiation poisoning, what is the point?
GhostTrick
Banned
Haha.
But seriously, what for those guys means 2x ?
For some people, 2x more beautiful could means PS2 vs PS3, or for others, it could be Uncharted 1 vs Uncharted 3.
radioheadrule83
Banned
There aren't many instances outside of visual bombast where I feel like this generation's power has been put to good use...
The silky smooth procedural animation of Batman Arkham Asylum / City's fighting mechanics are one example I appreciate though. In gameplay, that just couldn't be done on the Wii or in the generation before... not with the same effectiveness.
Some games have fancier physics or more things on screen, and that's always nice and can add to the immersion, but I want more things to please and wow me in terms of how games 'feel' to play. The Arkham games don't just *LOOK* good, there aren't just some clever things going on under the hood -- it actually feels good too. When you're gliding through the air, hanging someone from a gargoyle, whacking bad guys over the head with their own weapons, blocking attacks from two guys at the same time and whipping off a shot of the batarang -- you FEEL like Batman.
I thought the Force Unleashed was going to be something similar, with its Euphoria engine -- but outside of the quite touching futility stormtroopers display, clinging to the environment and their friends, I wasn't much of a fan. I didn't feel like I was playing a Jedi, I felt like I was playing a toy Havok physics engine, with no real meanings or consequences. I don't feel like the same love for the feeling of gameplay was there. Give me Jedi Knight 2 over it any day of the week... power isn't everything.
Someone in another thread posted a 360/Wii MW3 comparison video yesterday, and while the Wii one is clearly inferior, its amazing how well Treyarch were able to distill the MW3 experience into a playable and satisfying form on the Wii. In terms of gameplay, they look remarkably close...
Developers will work with whatever power they have. If the idea is good, it will shine through despite the power of the machine, and if it's a good idea that can make use of added power - it will shine through BECAUSE of the power of the machine too. If the idea isn't that great, the power doesn't really matter. Sadly, more often than not, the latter case is more prevalant. The Arkham games are the exception, not the rule.
When I look at PC games, there are so many sims, FPS, (a)RPGs in FPS form, MMOs - everyones looking forward to their Diablos, Starcrafts, Prey, Dead State, Dishonoured, Borderlands 2 etc. Yeah, I know there's still innovation about -- we'll get more Portals of the world, etc. -- but my point is, while the power we have is always growing, I'm not sure our ideas are keeping pace. Even when it comes to thinks like AI -- which does improve with more resources, I'm not entirely sure the sky is the limit there or that the greatest minds in the field are particularly interested in videogames.
I think this is partly why the Wii was able to succeed... there were amazing games that couldn't be done on the Wii, but the Wii was still surprising people and giving them things they hadn't necessarily played before via the new controller... the graphical ability was deemed 'good enough', with deficiencies made up for by the new experience.
My hope is that at least for the first couple of years, Wii-U will have both aspects -- great graphics and surprising or interesting new gameplay mechanics. I'm also hoping Nintendo see the potential in added processing power and are able to wow us in the same way that Rocksteady wowed me. It doesn't have to have a bajillion effects and everything in a game destructible right down to the fictional planet's core, it just needs to be fun and engaging.
thegodsend
Member
Thanks for your input to the discussion here.
I believe when we look at all the sources, insiders but also interviews with developers and even Nintendo themselves, it is pretty obvious that Nintendo is in no way aiming for a technical powerhouse now.
The 2x figure, as it is, points to 360/PS3 visuals with some extra beef - such as more detailed textures and better shaders. This is exactly in line with what Gearbox said in the past, for example. But this also means that we won't get the PC version of Battlefield 3 in highest details at 1080p - that's what 720 and PS4 will rather look like.
The good thing is that WiiU should be able to handle future iterations of the popular engines - UE, CryEngine, Frostbite. I imagine that the quality of the visuals between WiiU and 720IPS4 will be similar to Battlefield 3 on consoles to PC (again: slightly better geometry, better textures, shaders, framerate). This is a fair trade off for a hopefully slightly cheaper console that will come out earlier and spot an innovative new control scheme. And for lots and lots of Nintendo IPs in glorious HD for the very first time.
I also would like to the the console to reign all consoles, just for the sake of not having to spend money on three different platforms. But on the other hand, it looks like the strength and weaknesses of all three platforms will kind of balance out in the end, even if they are different. With the Wii, the console just was no option for realistic looking games at all and couldn't run industry standard engines. That was a completely different obstacle for developers to overcome.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
It depends on what type of CPU Sony goes with. IIRC they bought their cell factory back and are working on reducing the die size of the PS3 cell. I think there's a good chance they will go with some type of modified cell processor again for PS4 and use SoC. We could quite a power increase if they did. Theoretically this would allow them to allocate more money on a better GPU and more RAM. It's really too early to say though and I'm not the best person to ask about the components that go into these systems, but I'm expecting PS4 to be a beast.
tkscz
Member
I am aware of this. 360's GPU is also about 6x stronger than the Xbox's and it's CPU is way out there. And yet, the fidelity of the graphics only look about twice, or even three times as good in my opinion. This is the point I want to make and why what Ideaman said isn't as bad as you think.
First of all, the "X" thing is extremely suggestive when it comes to visuals. I think the garden demo (the floor version, not the stage version) looks nearly 3 times better than something like Gears of War 3 (Ignoring the fade in textures and bugs), especially this part. So when Ideaman's sources say 2x better visuals, that could be 5x better to someone else.
Secondly, Ideaman has said that some of the hardware in the WiiU, really ARE about 4 - 5x stronger than the counter-part hardware in the 360. That's all it needs to get a noticble jump in visual fidelity, and even then, that jump is still subjective.
Last I have a question. In the Garden demo, is that bump/normal mapping in the sand, or is that tessellation?
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