Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!
- Thread starter ClovingWestbrook
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A less bigoted Deku
Banned
No of course not, I think a lot of fans were expecting a rerun of 2006 with a scrappy Nintendo rebranding itself.
I don't think that will be the case this time around. They will be launching 1st for the first time in a long time (or ever)?
How many times has a console maker tried to hide the system and just show the controller? Wii U is a very confusing product and we've seen almost nothing about the thing for months. Is it really surprising to think people think it's just a new controller when almost everything they've shown has been focusing solely on the controller that has an extremely similar name to the system they're still selling?
Louis Cyphre
Banned
That's one of the key differences between Sony and Nintendo. Sony can create new IP's and continue support all while creating a new device like Vita. They have also shown great transitions from the PS1 to the PS2 and now the PS3 for software support.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Hardcore gamers aren't THAT easy to get. You need the marketing that targets them to back it up.
Anyway I agree that they should change the name, maybe they will. Fuck E3 is so far. Though if they did change the name, we would probably here about it at GDC where we're likely to hear details not surrounding actual game development for the console.
Anyway I agree that they should change the name, maybe they will. Fuck E3 is so far. Though if they did change the name, we would probably here about it at GDC where we're likely to hear details not surrounding actual game development for the console.
AceBandage
Banned
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
I dunno about that.
Sony basically just gave up on the PSP, and really haven't been pushing the Vita at all with their own software.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
It's been a learning curve that's for sure. Now it might not even be out until near the end of this year. I'm not sure what the real point of releasing the Wii U last year at E3 did aside from take away the focus from the lack of Wii software support. Either that or they really did want outside opinions as they continue to draft what the Wii U will end up as. I'm worried that 3rd party developers may not have enough time to make the most of the Wii U's benefits with their launch titles.
ReyVGM
Member
No no, you're thinking about 3rd parties. Sony's studios gave up on the older consoles as soon as the new ones were released.
And people say that the "PS2 is still getting games". Really? What games? Minigame collections? Half-assed ports?
The last decent PS2 game released was Silent Hill Shattered Memories, the port wasn't even that good and before that I can't remember the last decent game released.
Yeah. Playing is believing isn't what made the Wii huge. It's what presented a potential problem for the adoption of the console. People looking at it askew when they saw the controller and whatnot.
And yet everything they showed was something indicative and/or similar to something that appeared on the Wii. You think the first time out of the gate, they're going to show something that bears no reflection to what the console will actually have? Really? If that's true, Nintendo has its head up its ass. As for single-player oriented? More single-player oriented than the Wii? Possibly. But I doubt much of that is going to be driven by Nintendo's efforts and will be more based upon what 3rd parties bring to the table. Unless Nintendo has completely lost its senses.
That was new and fresh. It very elegantly built on one of the central reasons behind the Wii's success, but did so in a fashion that would have been impossible without the tablet. You're essentially making the argument that the Mario audience is going to dry up because Nintendo hasn't completely changed how Mario moves each time.
I'm not debating on how Nintendo handled the Wii. That console was mistakenly screwed over by pretty much the entire industry, Nintendo included. What I am curious about is what roots did Nintendo miss with the Wii that you feel the Wii U better positions it for? 3rd party games?
You're comparing what they did at E3 to what they'll be doing marketing the system before, during, and after its actual launch? I'm not surprised by confusion now - what I do think is that there shouldn't be any confusion when they're actually putting the thing to market. If there is, it's Nintendo's fault in failing to communicate clearly, not the market's for going, "Hmm... So, it's... like... the same system?"
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Many have said the Vita has one of the best line-ups ever. The PSP has been out for over 7 years now but i do agree the software support has been lacking the last couple of years. I'm sure piracy has taken its toll. Regardless, support for the PS3 didn't take a nosedive due to Vita like we see with the Wii and now the launch of he 3DS. The Wii was by far the best selling console this generation but you'd never know it by upcoming software.
AceBandage
Banned
I'm not saying that the Mario Audience will dry up. I never even mentioned Mario.
I'm simply saying that they won't get the WiiSports crowd back with Find Mii. It does not have the same novelty.
Especially when you consider that you can only have one or two people with the fancy new controller at once. It's just not going to hold the same appeal.
As for what they missed to go back to their roots, they needed to invest heavier in their own platform, something they did a lot on everything up until the Wii. It was just mind boggling how they sat on it for so long.
Sony has waaaay better third party support than Nintendo has. Nintendo's consoles live and die by the hands of Nintendo's own titles.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Didn't that game come out in 2010? Now ask yourself, when did the PS3 come out? The Wii U isn't even out yet and we have already seen a lack of games for the Wii this year and last year.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Didn't that game come out in 2010? Now ask yourself, when did the PS3 come out? The Wii U isn't even out yet and we have already seen a lack of games for the Wii this year and last year.
You can find people that will say anything has a good lineup, just walk into the appropriate thread. Though if the lineup was as good as people say you'd think people would be buying the Vita, but they aren't. The reason is that the entire lineup is B-tier franchises or worse. Somebody likes them but most people don't care. Not to say this isn't typical of launch lineups of course.
And I'd argue PS3 has taken a nosedive in software. My recollection of Sony last year was Killzone 3 somewhere in Feburary, Uncharted in November and some port collections in between. I think Resistance 3 also came out and nobody cared. This year they have Twisted Metal and...a prayer for Last Guardian by the holidays?
Zenaku
Member
Just a few random things from the Q&A.
- They don't believe the "download sales are retails enemy" argument, and are planning to work with retailers to find the answer to going digital without harming retail, as they believe there is one (an answer).
- Continuing with this, in regards to whether download games will be cheaper than retail (ala PS Vita), they feel that pricing them too high would negate the need for DL titles, while pricing them too low would be detrimental to retail (which they're looking to avoid). The system is (as previously reported) already in place on 3DS though, so they could start it now if they wanted to.
- One of the main goals with developing the Wii U will be in working out services that can only be used on the Wii U, as this will help differentiate it from other platforms.
- Nintendo are aware of the need to fight with "power games" (AAA titles), and know users don't want a cheap appearance (crap graphics) from the next Zelda.
- They don't believe the "download sales are retails enemy" argument, and are planning to work with retailers to find the answer to going digital without harming retail, as they believe there is one (an answer).
- Continuing with this, in regards to whether download games will be cheaper than retail (ala PS Vita), they feel that pricing them too high would negate the need for DL titles, while pricing them too low would be detrimental to retail (which they're looking to avoid). The system is (as previously reported) already in place on 3DS though, so they could start it now if they wanted to.
- One of the main goals with developing the Wii U will be in working out services that can only be used on the Wii U, as this will help differentiate it from other platforms.
- Nintendo are aware of the need to fight with "power games" (AAA titles), and know users don't want a cheap appearance (crap graphics) from the next Zelda.
AceBandage
Banned
Man, what's up with this site recently?
Louis Cyphre
Banned
But the tablet is adding to the existing experience found on the Wii. Now you can essentially have the main user that has the tablet controller while 3 others use the regular Wii controller. There will be a hybrid experience of what we played on the Wii to what can now be applied with the Wii U tablet. Nintendo is advertising it that way from what i've seen.
AceBandage
Banned
But is that going to entice people?
Specifically, the people that bought Wii Sports and Wii Fit?
Personally, I really don't see it.
It’s not only about the graphics. In this day and age, Nintendo really needs to significantly raise the production values when it comes to series like Zelda and Metroid.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Then i guess we disagree. I already have my sights on Twisted Metal, Starhawk, The Last Guardian, Sorcery, Tales of Xillia and the Last of Us. As for Vita I think there's quite a bit of variety there. All I'm saying is Sony has shown throughout history of continuing to support their consoles long after the new one arrives. The Wii sold awesome but looking at the line-up last year and upcoming looks rather thin for a system that did so well in hardware sales.
ReyVGM
Member
Yes, but before that, what other (worthy) PS2 game was released? I think Thunderforce 5 or something.
The point is that after the PS3 came out, Sony itself did not support the PS2 with games. 3rd Parties did.
I agree that the Wii is in a bad spot, but that wasn't the point. The point was that you said that Sony supported the PS1 and PS2 years after their successor was released and that's just not accurate.
No. It's more in tune with the Mario Party crowd which is typically an extended crowd but not the old people and soccer mom type. Wii Fit U and Wii Sports U are really the pieces they need to get that extended adoption off the bat. If they had that I'd could easily convince my parents to upgrade (with HD Netflix). The smart thing of course is to use DLC to extend the life of these products and turn them into living software platforms and getting a revenue stream rather having to release a new game to appeal to them every year or so which is much harder.
I think it is about graphics, because there really is nothing about Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess, Corruption or both Galaxies that had me doubting their production value. I wonder what you found lacking?
I'm totally placing my bets on "lack of voice acting"...
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Well it will entice people to shift from the Wii to the Wii U as you can use old peripherals. Whether or not if it works is up in the air but that's the marketing i got so far from Nintendo. I saw the golf demo with the tablet on the ground. So you are essentially playing a Wii game but now it's even more interactive because the tablet is also being utilized.
Yes they have also gone in a direction of a more solo experience since you can continue to play just on the tablet if your TV is no longer being used. Nintendo will not stray from the multiplayer/co-op experience. They also showed a game with people playing with a regular Wii controller and one user with the tablet of hide and seek.
Like i said earlier, going from the NES name to the SNES didn't hurt them any and the Wii sold remarkably well so why not take advantage of that brand?
Don't be surprised if the emphasis changes totally at this E3, especially if the name change rumour is true.
The asymmetrical bollocks was just to make-up for what the system couldn't do at the time, which was support more than 1 controller.
aeroslash
Member
whoever thinks that skyward sword lacks in production value needs to replay the game and just look at the little tricks that make the game a beautiful piece of art. In my opinion, much much better than twilight princess.
Regarding Wii U. I don't mind the name, i just want some goddam info!
Can we return to the specs discussion so we can start the cycle again, please?
Regarding Wii U. I don't mind the name, i just want some goddam info!
Can we return to the specs discussion so we can start the cycle again, please?
ReyVGM
Member
Problem with Vita is that a lot of its current lineup is comprised mostly of games that appeal to western gamers, not Japanese. I don't see Uncharted selling in the millions in Japan.
And when it does launch in the USA, I still think it won't sell (just like the PSP) because games like Uncharted are best experienced in a HD TV and not a small screen. Dudebros might play for the novelty aspect, but they will never trade their HD experience for a portable.
I see the Vita taking off once it starts getting Monster Hunter and Final Fantasy titles.
Dreamwriter
Member
I will be surprised, because I don't expect Nintendo to support more than 1 controller at launch, based on how they've talked about more than one controller.
There's no hidden agenda about asymmetric multiplayer. It's something Wii U does that other platforms do not and was why it was featured. Also so people understand it still works with their current motion controllers.
Again, justifying what was the situation back then. Nintendo always do this, so do Apple. Till they change their mind.
If Capcom was referring to anything by the system having 'much greater possibilities' at this E3, it was more than 1 controller. Returning to Nintendo's greatest strength which is local-multiplayer.
As a concept Wii U makes much more sense that way, is a lot less confusing with more potential, and a much easier sell.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Ape Escape 3, Formula 1, God of War 2, Gretky NHL, MLB, NBA, Ratchet and Clank, Rule of Rose, Singstar, Siren 2, Tourist Trophy. These are all games produced by Sony in 2006 or after. As for 3rd party support i guess that's just a huge bonus from what we see on Nintendo consoles, right?
A less bigoted Deku
Banned
DLC cards, and downloadable games sold at retail with cards is the obvious one, Plus turning toys into DLC vehicles. We've already seen that with Skylands and ME3.
Retail isn't going away and all the talk of digital distribution taking over is a bit pre-mature. And frankly, I highly doubt retail ever will go away.
Certain demographics may be more confortable buying things on-line or on their phones, but the majority of consumers wills till shop for things; even Amazon still do most of their business with physical goods.
Nintendo's ace in the hole has always been their incredibly strong relationship with retail.
Dreamwriter
Member
How is the situation any different now? Are you thinking that Nintendo somehow managed to manufacture the controllers very quickly and cheaply? The way Nintendo talked about 2-controller support sounded a lot to me like how they handled the 3DS second analogue stick - they had it planned before the system launched, but decided not to ship it until a couple third-party developers wanted to use it in their games.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
You could be right as westernised culture isn't the same when adopting handheld gaming devices. Japan does seem to lead in that area. I know i don't have much desire paying $50 to play uncharted on a handheld when i can play it on the PS3 for $10 more and it's comes with multiplayer. I do see other games that look interesting on Vita and for a launch it does look rather impressive. Again that's just my opinion.
Then they run the risk of out-pricing themselves unless they can get that tablet controller under $100.
It was a bandaid on a restriction that strangles the concept.
It is certainly not a selling-point as you can do something like Chase Mii far better without the remotes. Allowing the game to switch master/slave on the fly, not pass something around at the end of a round/game.
Screens for every player is what will let the Wii U shine, as the greatest asset is a private screen and information for each player. Even if they can't do the streaming to more than one, they can kludge it so it fires out alternate frames to each controller which will be sufficient for choosing sports plays, weapons etc.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Console names are never as important as everyone thinks.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Of course, but it would be nice to have a cool or agreeable name. Just like it's nice to have an account system.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
That was one of the things i liked about the Dreamcast. I remember playing NFL with a buddy and each of us able to pick our own plays on the controller. It was a cool feature and that was over 10 years ago!
They encouraged people to take their Wii remotes round to other people's houses, even let you save their Mii's to it. At last E3 they suddenly forgot about that, because of the limitation of the hardware.
If they've got round it, or kludged it as mentioned above to open things up for sports games etc., you will suddenly hear about that all again. And the scares about the price were to back up their stance *last* E3. If their stance has changed the message will change.
Yeah good old Dreamcast
Too ahead of its time for its own good. Nintendo have got a bit side-tracked with the streaming, and the 2 viewpoint thing. It's novel, and will get attention, but they mustn't neglect their greatest strength which is local multiplayer. If you have screens in controllers it would be criminal (and foolish) to not take advantage of what that opens up for social gaming.
It's also a MUCH easier sell to people, and far less confusing, than one tablet and lots of remotes. The system can support as many different ways to play as possible, I believe that's what the Capcom quote is about, but if it has a restriction on its key means of input then I believe that will work against it. And also limit the new things we see from it.
Dreamwriter
Member
So you're saying they lied, and the reason nobody is making cheap devices with high quality 6" touchscreens with very high bandwidth wireless is because they are greedy?
It's all a balancing act, and if the 3DS has shown anything it's Nintendo are now prepared to do whatever is necessary to make a system reach critical mass.
And as mentioned they encouraged people to take their Wii remotes round to other people's houses, they can encourage people to do it a lot more with the tablet. There was no reason why they couldn't have said that at last E3, it was a technical limitation, a design choice forced by compromise which I now think they accept has backfired because of all the confusion regarding the concept. It wasn't going to fly.
As soon as you have 2 controllers at least, things get MUCH more interesting. And EA will be very happy to promote the hell out of it with every sports game they do.
It's also a very basic marketing ploy, you want your friends to get the same system so you have more than one controller. Local multiplayer drives sales, it's what helped the Wii go ballistic.
ReyVGM
Member
All of those games were not produced (developed) by Sony. Some were just published by them and some not at all. Also, they were not all produced 2006 or after. They were in production way before the PS3 was in the market.
-Ape Escape came out in 2005.
-Formula 1 games (don't know which one you are talking about) were in production before the PS3 was released. And released about the same time the PS3 came out.
-God of War 2, I'll give you that one since it came out in '07. However, it was in production before the PS3 came out.
-Gretky NHL came out in 2005.
-Can't tell what games you mean by MLB and NBA, but I suspect they were also in production before the PS3 was released.
-Ratchet and Clank Up Your Arsenal was released in '08 yes, but that's not a Sony studio.
-Singstar was released before the PS3.
-Siren 2, Tourist Trophy and Rule of Rose were in production before the PS3 was released.
So as you can see, Sony itself did not really support the PS2 as much as you think, 3rd Parties did. After '07, Sony pretty much left the PS2 to the 3rd parties.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Ok, even if everything you say is correct that's still at least a year after the PS3 came out. In comparison here we are before the Wii U is out and the software has already dried up for the Wii. Aside from Zelda, what Gamecube titles did Nintendo offer for Gamecube owners after the Wii came out?
Dreamwriter
Member
They actually *did* say that - they said they were going to look into if it was possible to support two controllers with one player taking theirs to a friend's house, in case some third-party developer decided they wanted to support it. And there's not been a single shred of evidence that Nintendo's changed that stance.
That was Iwata's forced response when under fire for the underwhelming E3. 'Looking into' the most basic advantage of a controller with a screen built in? Of course they'd looked into it, but their focus was on the streaming which will be difficult to more than one. They were running with that.
Wii U's unveiling was undercooked, ill-thought out, and not playing to Nintendo's existing strengths. If when it resurfaces at E3 the whole focus totally changes, and I expect it will, it will be because they realised that.
Not because it was all a great plan to confuse and underwhelm everyone last E3, just to pleasantly surprise them this time round
Fourth Storm
Member
More name change speculation: Anyone suggested "Nintendo See" (alternatively Sii, Si, Cii, etc)?
Seems kinda catchy and does well to get across the unique new views provided by the controller screen (and HD graphics).
Seems kinda catchy and does well to get across the unique new views provided by the controller screen (and HD graphics).
Louis Cyphre
Banned
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