I don't consider it oversaturation when the games are for different platforms. I don't think 3D Land (or the next) has any barring on what happens for the wii/wiiU.
What's more dangerous than releasing 2 mario titles close to eachother? Having a launch that creates no momentum whatsoever. That is EASILY the worst outcome. And you run the risk of that without a BIG game, whether it's mario or whatever. They gotta get something proven out there. The latest being launch window (within 1-2 months of launch).
But they don't need Mario to create momentum at launch. They'll be launching closer to the holidays, with a lot of big named games as it is. That's plenty to create momentum.
Because I personally do believe it's impossible. I'll even go so far as to say I don't think we'll see a Mario game for the Wii U at E3.
But they don't need Mario to create momentum at launch. They'll be launching closer to the holidays, with a lot of big named games as it is. That's plenty to create momentum.
what are these "a lot of big named games". And it can't be anything available on another console, because that is a tough sell no matter how you slice it.
what are these "a lot of big named games". And it can't be anything available on another console, because that is a tough sell no matter how you slice it.
Why?
Are you saying that multiplatform games are pointless?
They're still big named games. They will still drive sales for the system.
The launch of new hardware is a reset for the industry and the userbase.
People will buy games that they know are good at launch, and there just so happens to be a lot of good third party games that will make that timeframe.
Wii launched without a Mario game.
I'd say it built momentum just fine.
In this situation, we have a unique opportunity that Nintendo hasn't been in since the SNES days.
They'll have all these third party games ready for them.
Games that sell millions.
There is simply no reason to rush a Mario game out for launch just to say you had one.
This is true, but the 360 had eDRAM for the framebuffer as well and pretty much that exact bandwidth. So it would be no increase at all over 360 in that regard. Which still seems low, even for Wii U.
360 potential was badly hampered (particularly early on, when the tiling APIs were not even out yet) by the amount of edram it had. Also, I'd be really surprised (as in really really surprised) if the edram in WiiU can be used merely as an fb by the gpu. The simple reason for that is that Xenos' offspring uses its edram for much more than an fb.
Why?
Are you saying that multiplatform games are pointless?
They're still big named games. They will still drive sales for the system.
The launch of new hardware is a reset for the industry and the userbase.
People will buy games that they know are good at launch, and there just so happens to be a lot of good third party games that will make that timeframe.
I'm sorry but I just don't see how you can possible sell a console using content that is available to 100+ million people elsewhere. Plunk down 60 bucks or plunk down 400+. Easy choice for most people.
They absolutely aren't pointless, but in terms of selling a console? They aren't system movers. The people who will buy 3rd party games at launch for the most part, are the people who were going to buy a WiiU anyway. It's not going to convince anyone to buy the system just for those games, when they can get them for the system they already have, and wait till WiiU gets some good shit or drops in price or whatever else they may choose to wait for.
Seems pretty common sense to me. Selling games people can get elsewhere can't sell consoles, especially when they gotta spend a ton of money on the system to be able to play them to begin with. They're important for sustaining an audience, keeping people busy, and appeasing the hardcore nintendo fans who were going to buy the system anyway, but it won't make anyone go "wow I can play cod and ac3, time to spend 400+!!".
I'm sorry but I just don't see how you can possible sell a console using content that is available to 100+ million people elsewhere. Plunk down 60 bucks or plunk down 400+. Easy choice for most people.
They absolutely aren't pointless, but in terms of selling a console? They aren't system movers. The people who will buy 3rd party games at launch for the most part, are the people who were going to buy a WiiU anyway. It's not going to convince anyone to buy the system just for those games, when they can get them for the system they already have, and wait till WiiU gets some good shit or drops in price or whatever else they may choose to wait for.
And I disagree.
I think that they'll sell just fine. Especially if the sales aren't being gobbled up by a Mario game.
Early adopters will pick up the new system and some games they know are good with it. Word will spread. It'll catch on.
Mario will not change that. Save it for when you need it. Rushing it out, just plopping the Mii and a few new levels in NSMB is not the way to do it.
I've asked this before but I don't recall getting a solid answer (Blu might have said something about it) but can EDRAM really offset the performance degredation of GDDR3 vs 5, or of a 96 vs 192 bit bus?
You graphics guys here in this thread seem to be suggesting that maybe it can but I would have thought a mere 32MB for your oft used textures and framebuffer will be nice of course for drawing most common textures, but if you're thinking of something like a Metroid or an open world game, those things stream constantly. In these cases won't we see the lack of performance?
And I disagree.
I think that they'll sell just fine. Especially if the sales aren't being gobbled up by a Mario game.
Early adopters will pick up the new system and some games they know are good with it. Word will spread. It'll catch on.
Mario will not change that. Save it for when you need it. Rushing it out, just plopping the Mii and a few new levels in NSMB is not the way to do it.
I just don't see what the incentive is. I think the days of spending a lot money all willy nilly are over, and there is evidence to back that up. I believe (and with good reason/evidence) that if people are faced with a choice of spending more money or spending less money to get the same product, they'll spend less money. Loyalty is over for the mainstream, they don't care. They want the most amount of things for the least price.
Nintendo's BIGGEST assets BY FAR are their games, that's the #1 thing they have going for them. It makes no sense to me not utilize that asset in the most important part of their whole entire business for the next few years, and that's the launch of a new console.
Wii launched without a Mario game.
I'd say it built momentum just fine.
In this situation, we have a unique opportunity that Nintendo hasn't been in since the SNES days.
They'll have all these third party games ready for them.
Games that sell millions.
There is simply no reason to rush a Mario game out for launch just to say you had one.
No, I was talking about your statement that we wouldn't see a new mario game at E3.
You're kind of being obnoxious here by omitting certain console launch histories. Mario launch games have had significant impacts on nintendo console launches, but it's also true the there have been a few without mario at launch. The GC didn't have mario and suffered for it. The 3DS didn't have mario and arguably suffered for it. The Wii did not have mario and was OK, but that doesn't mean mario should never be at launch ever again. I agree that if the third party situation is as good as we're expecting, mario may not be necessary at launch, but a mario game in holiday 2012 could potentially work out fantastic for them. And in any case, whether or not the 3rd parties are there at launch, a mario at launch has never been a bad idea for nintendo. Ever.
Also, I'll bet you 10 pickles that we'll see mario at E3 for Wii U. Whether or not it'll be there at launch is something I'm less sure about.
Could we potentially see something from EAD Tokyo at E3? I remember hearing that only a small chunk of them worked on 3D Land, so the rest have to be doing SOMETHING right? SMGUniverse?
Someone thought about a Wii Sports counterpart on Wii U which doesn't need to be about sports but about something unique which shows the system's capabilities? Nobody? No? Okay.. I just wait here and.. hey..
I just don't see what the incentive is. I think the days of spending a lot money all willy nilly are over, and there is evidence to back that up. I believe (and with good reason/evidence) that if people are faced with a choice of spending more money or spending less money to get the same product, they'll spend less money. Loyalty is over for the mainstream, they don't care. They want the most amount of things for the least price.
Nintendo's BIGGEST assets BY FAR are their games, that's the #1 thing they have going for them. It makes no sense to me not utilize that asset in the most important part of their whole entire business for the next few years, and that's the launch of a new console.
They can utilize that asset, though. Nintendo has a giant library of games and resources to make new games, without needing Mario. Of course they'll have something for launch, but it doesn't need to be, and it shouldn't be, Mario.
New experiences and some solid titles is what they need. Not relying on a half baked Mario game.
No, I was talking about your statement that we wouldn't see a new mario game at E3.
You're kind of being obnoxious here by omitting certain console launch histories. Mario launch games have had significant impacts on nintendo console launches, but it's also true the there have been a few without mario at launch. The GC didn't have mario and suffered for it. The 3DS didn't have mario and arguably suffered for it. The Wii did not have mario and was OK, but that doesn't mean mario should never be at launch ever again. I agree that if the third party situation is as good as we're expecting, mario may not be necessary at launch, but a mario game in holiday 2012 could potentially work out fantastic for them. And in any case, whether or not the 3rd parties are there at launch, a mario at launch has never been a bad idea for nintendo. Ever.
Also, I'll bet you 10 pickles that we'll see mario at E3 for Wii U. Whether or not it'll be there at launch is something I'm less sure about.
Someone thought about a Wii Sports counterpart on Wii U which doesn't need to be about sports but about something unique which shows the system's capabilities? Nobody? No? Okay.. I just wait here and.. hey..
Could we potentially see something from EAD Tokyo at E3? I remember hearing that only a small chunk of them worked on 3D Land, so the rest have to be doing SOMETHING right? SMGUniverse?
Who said anything about a mainline mario game? And by mainline I mean a successor to mario galaxy. It's much more likely we'll see a NSMB:WiiU game, or even perhaps an HD combo pack of Galaxy 1+2 in the same vein as SM64DS. They might also space things out and release 2D-3DS mario in novemeber and a 2D mario for Wii U in january/february which would help sales considerably post holiday (and probably continue to sell for the lifetime of the console). There's any number of permutations that could give us a Wii U mario game within the first few months of the console's life cycle.
Who said anything about a mainline mario game? And by mainline I mean a successor to mario galaxy. It's much more likely we'll see a NSMB:WiiU game, or even perhaps an HD combo pack of Galaxy 1+2 in the same vein as SM64DS. They might also space things out and release 2D-3DS mario in novemeber and a 2D mario for Wii U in january/february which would help sales considerably post holiday (and probably continue to sell for the lifetime of the console). There's any number of permutations that could give us a Wii U mario game within the first few months of the console's life cycle.
I'm not arguing that. I easily see a Mario game within the first 6 months of the system's release.
I do not see one day and date with the system, however.
I have thought about the following: is Mario at launch really necessary when there are games which inclue Miis? Think about it: almost every Wii __ sold a buttload of copies and in all Wii __ you can find Miis. I'll just risk a blue eye by asking: aren't the Miis almost as recognizable to people like Mario is? And do you think that Nintendo will change those Miis or will we see the introduction of Miis 2.0?
I just think Nintendo is far more concerned with having a successful launch and launch window than they are making sure their mario titles are spaced out properly (or whatever big game they choose to use, though I still think mario is easiest).
I'm not arguing that. I easily see a Mario game within the first 6 months of the system's release.
I do not see one day and date with the system, however.
I'm not arguing that. I easily see a Mario game within the first 6 months of the system's release.
I do not see one day and date with the system, however.
I hope you're right. I agree that the launch could be stacked with very different titles. FPSs?
It would be great to give Tokyo enough time to perfect a solid mario game, much like what they did with Galaxy. And I don't think they would make anyone upset if they released Super Mario Universe 2 a little while later.
They don't have to announce a Mario at E3 to have out at any point.
They have their own events in which to announce anything they please.
E3 will be about third parties, the 3DS and new experiences.
Showing off a Mario on the Wii U will overshadow too much.
It doesn't need to be Mario, but Wii U needs some system sellers in order to make a difference. No one's going to spend 300-400$ in order to play what they already can have on their PS360 for just 60$ (and that's almost every core gamer on the planet).
If Nintendo wants to have a successful launch, they need some impressive, exclusive, titles. Whether we're talking about Mario and Zelda, or some new hi-budget exclusives, Nintendo needs them.
I agree with AceBandage that a Mario game will not be at launch for the Wii U. A trailer for SMG Universe, maybe. Appearing at launch or even launch window, no way. They're going to save that trump card for later. Not to mention if they put it at launch, they risk disrupting 3rd Party sales and 3rd Parties' will moan at how they have to 'compete' with Nintendo's own franchises.
I think they'll put out some other recognizable Nintendo franchise that isn't as big as Mario. Perhaps, Donkey Kong or Star Fox. Pikmin is not big enough or well known enough to the non-Nintendo crowd.
1. Less handholding. Take it back to Zelda 1 and a bit like LTTP. Just set you out on an adventure without a giant set up. Have you learn by doing.
2. More involved and intricate world. It's not worth saving if you don't care about it. Make me care about the world I'm saving. Games like Okami did this beautifully through memorable locations and characters.
Everything else from the dungeons and the items are pretty much fine. No need to change staples that are never used in other games, especially when they work.
There's one big thing I want: A little more speed. Modern, 3D Zelda has huge expanses that take an eternity to traverse, and that's not very exciting. When you're constantly rolling in the hopes that it makes you go 5% faster to get where you want to go, that's a problem. I really would like something to speed everything up. Classic, 2D Zelda had you going from kill to kill in seconds. Now each kill is it's own mini-game. Used to be able to jog across the map in a couple minutes. Now it's such a tedious exercise during which nothing happens. Even if the world had more stuff in it, it still takes far, far more to, say, get to a building from the edge of a town, than it did in old iterations of the series.
I want faster LoZ. It would feed my ADD much more satisfactorily.
Miyamoto already mentioned the dock before during some interview.
And besides, how else would we use the Video chat while being hands free? or play Wii games on the tablet without the TV? (hehe small screen pointer games would suck btw, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to do it if you wanted to.)
Someone thought about a Wii Sports counterpart on Wii U which doesn't need to be about sports but about something unique which shows the system's capabilities? Nobody? No? Okay.. I just wait here and.. hey..
You have to balance that out with a large, conventional title, for two reasons:
A) the unique game might not actually interest potential buyers that much, so you need something that is guaranteed to get at least a base minimum sales interest
B) people who buy AAA Title 2012 suddenly have the system, which increases their chance of playing U-Game, increasing its chances of being a hit.
How about both Retro's game and a Nintendo side-scroller at launch with a bunch of solid first and second party titles, then a really hyped Pikmin 3 and ?? in Q4.
They don't have to announce a Mario at E3 to have out at any point.
They have their own events in which to announce anything they please.
E3 will be about third parties, the 3DS and new experiences.
Showing off a Mario on the Wii U will overshadow too much.
I guess what's bugging me is that you're touting this as fact when it's nothing short of a blind prediction without any real precedent. Did showing galaxy at E3 2006 overshadow the wii's launch? No, not at all, and that game wasn't released until november 2007.
I see Nintendo riding the word of mouth bandwagon again with Wii U. And it's probably for the best as advertising won't do enough to convey the experience, only letting people know it's out there.
I have thought about the following: is Mario at launch really necessary when there are games which inclue Miis? Think about it: almost every Wii __ sold a buttload of copies and in all Wii __ you can find Miis. I'll just risk a blue eye by asking: aren't the Miis almost as recognizable to people like Mario is? And do you think that Nintendo will change those Miis or will we see the introduction of Miis 2.0?
I agree. And to raise enthusiasm, you honestly don't need that much. Nintendo could demonstrate Wii U on Conan, Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, The Today Show or even on The Ellen DeGeneres Show. Or if they really want to get people's attention, have it featured in Reader's Digest (circulation over 5,5 million). All of these appeal to the mass market in one way or another, and with the right approach this demographic is a really good spreader of information.
I guess what's bugging me is that you're touting this as fact when it's nothing short of a blind prediction without any real precedent. Did showing galaxy at E3 2006 overshadow the wii's launch? No, not at all, and that game wasn't released until november 2007.
I'm simply stating the most logical course of action Nintendo should take. Sorry if it comes off as "mater o' factly".
I just really think that Nintendo needs to set their focus on realtionships with third parties more than worrying about getting a Mario right out of the gate. Especially if it's just going to be something like NSMBMii.
Could we potentially see something from EAD Tokyo at E3? I remember hearing that only a small chunk of them worked on 3D Land, so the rest have to be doing SOMETHING right? SMGUniverse?
A video teaser?
I reckon at E3 Nintendo's conference, after Iwata's introductive notes we'll be watching right away some jaw-dropping video-reel of some big unannounced games to be released in the future, so definitely yes, methinks we'll see a few seconds' short videos footage of pretty much every game that's being developed for WiiU at the moment, including next Mario game.
A Mario demo playable on the floor show?
Colour me surprised if that's going to happen.
I'm simply stating the most logical course of action Nintendo should take. Sorry if it comes off as "mater o' factly".
I just really think that Nintendo needs to set their focus on realtionships with third parties more than worrying about getting a Mario right out of the gate. Especially if it's just going to be something like NSMBMii.
This is nintendo, dude. They're always more concerned about their bottom line than anything else. Mario in 2012 might not be best for their relationship with 3rd parties if it overshadows those games but Nintendo might feel it's in the best interest of their profitability and the console's momentum.
Does anyone think there's a chance that Wii U might get a staggered release schedule, like GameCube did with Pikmin and Melee? Have a solid launch lineup, and then bring out some even bigger games a few weeks later. I don't know what the strategy behind this would be, but it would be interesting.
They don't have to announce a Mario at E3 to have out at any point.
They have their own events in which to announce anything they please.
E3 will be about third parties, the 3DS and new experiences.
Showing off a Mario on the Wii U will overshadow too much.
I think it would behove Nintendo to take a note from Microsoft's last few E3s, and make it primarily about 3rd party offerings on the Wii U.
That is, after all, the big mountain they're going to have to climb next-gen. Nobody's worried about whether or not we're going to get another Mario game (of course we are), but everybody's wondering what Nintendo's relationship is going to be like with 3rd parties going forward. E3 2012 being dominated by a Mario title wouldn't help Nintendo much in that respect.
This is nintendo, dude. They're always more concerned about their bottom line than anything else. Mario in 2012 might not be best for their relationship with 3rd parties if it overshadows their games but Nintendo might feel it's in the best interest of their profitability and the console's momentum.
But when have they ever actually rushed a Mario game?
When has a mainline Mario game just been a cheap cash in?
Even at the DS launch, the remake of Mario 64 had significantly more content and completely redone graphics.
It is completely uncharacteristic of Nintendo to just cash in on their mainline games like that at launch.
ElTopo said:
The problem is that they need exclusives to get a good start and give people incentives to buy the console. Now I would agree with you if we were talking about exclusive 3rd party games, but let's face it, we're talking mostly about ports, in some cases of games that'll be many months old when Wii U releases.
Maybe not a Mario game, but they definitely also need a strong showing of 1st party software. Sell as many units before the (new) competition comes out. Maybe they technically don't "need" to show those at E3, but it's by far the best time to do so. You wanna show the real goods as soon as possible, not a month before release (or afterwards).
Again, not debating that they need strong first party games. Just Mario specifically. Nintendo has such a large library and such awesome teams. There's just no reason to rush a Mario game out for launch and have it compete with another Mario game that will be out around the same time.
Also, I'd like to add that I think we will see quite a few third party exclusives for the Wii U at E3.
You think Nintendo is going to settle for 360/PS3 scraps? No, they're going to pursue games heavily just like that are with the 3DS.
But when have they ever actually rushed a Mario game?
When has a mainline Mario game just been a cheap cash in?
Even at the DS launch, the remake of Mario 64 had significantly more content and completely redone graphics.
It is completely uncharacteristic of Nintendo to just cash in on their mainline games like that at launch.
Maybe not a Mario game, but they definitely also need a strong showing of 1st party software. Sell as many units before the (new) competition comes out. Maybe they technically don't "need" to show those at E3, but it's by far the best time to do so. You wanna show the real goods as soon as possible, not a month before release (or afterwards).
I'll bet anything that that's exactly what Retro's working on. In fact, I'll upload a picture of me eating my hat if it's not.
Nintendo does need to flex their muscle at launch with a big exclusive title to stand alongside Pikmin 3 and a competent lineup of 3rd party games, but I agree with Ace in that it probably shouldn't be a Mario game.
Actually, if Nintendo were ever going to introduce a new AAA IP, this would be the absolute best time to do it.
Nintendo likes Retro, but now way in hell they will let them create the flagship title for new consumers after that 3DS fiasco. I'm pretty sure EAD will do it.
