Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012

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Ubermatik said:
Oh shit, not the dictionary. Stop being pedantic, you know what I mean - in the end, the only marketing/advertising/whatever that will take effect will be the one the mass public get to see - i.e. not E3.
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You do realise that all the mainstream press reported of E3?

KE: There are actually several reasons for us wanting to make Wii U part of the Wii family, to make that connection. in hindsight, looking at Wii U and its features we realised that there were also things [with Wii] that we weren’t able to accomplish with that system, that we would have liked to see in it. Wii U is kind of the natural progression in looking at what we did, how we changed gaming. This is the next logical step for us and we wanted to convey that in the name. in addition to that there are many Wii users out there – and we are very appreciative of this – who invested in lots of peripherals, such as more Remotes, balance boards, Classic Controllers, and they can continue to use these peripherals with Wii U as well. We wanted to make sure they understood that.
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Did he mean continue to not use them? With the Wii barely being used by the majority of owners it makes you wonder if they really thought the naming through.
 
Was there some new tidbits I missed about all the hardware info being based on off-the shelf parts and not indicative of the final specs? I know early kits are usually off-the shelf stuff to approximate the development environment but it looks like I missed some of the latest news.
 
Jin34 said:
Was there some new tidbits I missed about all the hardware info being based on off-the shelf parts and not indicative of the final specs? I know early kits are usually off-the shelf stuff to approximate the development environment but it looks like I missed some of the latest news.
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Yes.

This is where it started.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=29833512#post29833512


And this is where it finished.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=29863782#post29863782


If you want you can start with the first link and read through the exchanges to get a full picture.
 
Jin34 said:
Thanks, so whatever place holder gpu they are still using is causing problems, too bad Ubisoft got caught.
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Yeah which is weird because on the surface you would think that wouldn't be the problem at least from a heat perspective.
 
bgassassin said:
Yeah which is weird because on the surface you would think that wouldn't be the problem at least from a heat perspective.
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Yeah since dev kits are so much bigger and they have far more off the shelf options to use as a placeholder card, whereas with the cpu they have to use the available Power 7 cpus.
 
Since all we're doing is speculating, I kinda believe the first kit might have used a modified Xenon which ended up leading to a lot of the 360 comparisons we heard in the beginning.

AceBandage said:
Could be that Nintendo switched up parts last minute but couldn't get bigger kits.
Or underestimated how hot the CPU ran.
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Yeah there are things we're still missing, but I'd believe based on what we know that we can rule out the CPU causing any direct or indirect problems.
 
BurntPork said:
They dropped GC BC so they can sell HD GC games on WU's VC.
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...which would then require software emulation. Remember Wii has standard GCN ports for controllers, Wii U will not.
 
BurntPork said:
OIC

Is it possible that they may be porting the games, though?
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I'm talking about the hardware. Wii didn't have embeded custom SNES chips in them to emulate stuff, so why would Wii U still need to retain GC legacy hardware?
 
Nintendo likes to have their games load fast.
What options do they have when choosing components to make this happen?
Drives, compression technology, memory, etc...
 
MDX said:
Nintendo likes to have their games load fast.
What options do they have when choosing components to make this happen?
Drives, compression technology, memory, etc...
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To be honest that really has the most bearing on the engine/game itself rather than the hardware at this point. Obviously a load of memory, integrated SSD, SoC, and low latency WiFi/streaming would drastically help all things load faster but 90% of that is out the question. I really don't see Nintendo implementing too much in the way of dedicated/proprietary hardware to ensure games load fast, it'll be more of a software-based solution.
 
MDX said:
So nobody thinks that TEV is necessary for B.C. or for Nintendo teams who might be unfamiliar with SHADERS?
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I'm pretty sure Nintendo teams are familiar with shaders, and that shaders can perfectly emulate TEV calls, as Dolphin demonstrates.
 
Kenka said:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/306869/wii-u-wont-upscale-wii-games-to-1080p/


If no Wii upscaled games, then no GC upscaled games. Sad but Nintendoish.
Makes no sense whatsoever I agree, we should put the pressure on Nintendo so they upscale those frigging games. Dammit.
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Oh it makes perfect sense for Nintendo. Upscaled/ significantly enhanced versions of those games limits their ability/ credibility to sell HD remakes of gc/wii classics at retail price. Heck i'd even pay money for a windwaker remake complete with the extra dungeons they never finished after seeing how beautiful the game looks on dolphin.
 
MDX said:
So nobody thinks that TEV is necessary for B.C. or for Nintendo teams who might be unfamiliar with SHADERS?
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Flipper, as a whole, is not necessary for BC, as all graphics on the cube/wii went via a HAL API. What is necessary for BC is performance matching - whatever flipper could do, WiiU's gpu must do as quick or quicker.

As re nintendo being unfamiliar with shaders - no.
 
Kenka said:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/306869/wii-u-wont-upscale-wii-games-to-1080p/


If no Wii upscaled games, then no GC upscaled games. Sad but Nintendoish.
Makes no sense whatsoever I agree, we should put the pressure on Nintendo so they upscale those frigging games. Dammit.
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The reason Wii games won't run in HD on the Wii U is because to do so it would require someone to go back and make game by game optimisations to the emulator to make sure it can play all games without breaking them. Given that the Wii has a library of over 1000 games and most people who are going to use the system's BC already own the games they want to play, it doesn't make financial sense to do so.

Because GCN games will be released online, one by one and sold for money, it is financially sane to optimise them one by one. Of course their are no guarantees that they will, but I wouldn't use disc based BC as a precedence.

Also from a technical level, it would be easier to run GCN games in HD then Wii games.

Side note: I would pay to download HD patches for Wii games if Nintendo were to make them available on the Wii U eShop. Unfortunately Nintendo can't read my mind so I doubt they've even thought about the possibility.
 
Daschysta said:
Oh it makes perfect sense for Nintendo. Upscaled/ significantly enhanced versions of those games limits their ability/ credibility to sell HD remakes of gc/wii classics at retail price. Heck i'd even pay money for a windwaker remake complete with the extra dungeons they never finished after seeing how beautiful the game looks on dolphin.
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Those dungeons were finished and used in Twilight Princess.
 
Luigiv said:
The reason Wii games won't run in HD on the Wii U is because to do so it would require someone to go back and make game by game optimisations to the emulator to make sure it can play all games without breaking them. Given that the Wii has a library of over 1000 games and most people who are going to use the system's BC already own the games they want to play, it doesn't make financial sense to do so.

Because GCN games will be released online, one by one and sold for money, it is financially sane to optimise them one by one. Of course their are no guarantees that they will, but I wouldn't use disc based BC as a precedence.

Also from a technical level, it would be easier to run GCN games in HD then Wii games.

Side note: I would pay to download HD patches for Wii games if Nintendo were to make them available on the Wii U eShop. Unfortunately Nintendo can't read my mind so I doubt they've even thought about the possibility.
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Kind of gets me thinking, I'd love to see Nintendo allow a full Dolphin channel on the Wii U (maybe charge a small fee for the dev's, or do some sort of advertising deal), or allow the homebrew option. But it would be a way to play retail Wii games using the emulator and tasking the user with optimizing/tweaking it themselves, cut through the red tape for us fans and all...
 
I don't think there'll be any 1T-SRAM, and I think the eDRAM will be neither cache nor framebuffer. I expect an SoC with around 32MB "MEM1" - a very fast shared memory pool developers can use however they want.
 
Luigiv said:
Side note: I would pay to download HD patches for Wii games if Nintendo were to make them available on the Wii U eShop. Unfortunately Nintendo can't read my mind so I doubt they've even thought about the possibility.
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This +1!
 
wsippel said:
I don't think there'll be any 1T-SRAM, and I think the eDRAM will be neither cache nor framebuffer. I expect an SoC with around 32MB "MEM1" - a very fast shared memory pool developers can use however they want.
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I still can't see that. To me that contradicts IBM's press release about the CPU using their "unique" eDRAM.
 
Luigiv said:
The reason Wii games won't run in HD on the Wii U is because to do so it would require someone to go back and make game by game optimisations to the emulator to make sure it can play all games without breaking them. Given that the Wii has a library of over 1000 games and most people who are going to use the system's BC already own the games they want to play, it doesn't make financial sense to do so.

Because GCN games will be released online, one by one and sold for money, it is financially sane to optimise them one by one. Of course their are no guarantees that they will, but I wouldn't use disc based BC as a precedence.

Also from a technical level, it would be easier to run GCN games in HD then Wii games.

Side note: I would pay to download HD patches for Wii games if Nintendo were to make them available on the Wii U eShop. Unfortunately Nintendo can't read my mind so I doubt they've even thought about the possibility.
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That's what they do with VC games. It's almost a guarantee that they'll do the same for GCN games, by running each game in HD in an optimised emulator.

We already know that they're including the original Wii hardware for BC (since all the games still run in 480p and it would be nigh on impossible to write a system wide emulator that runs all games perfectly). GCN games will probably just be emulated game by game like all VC releases (the bonus being that they can just re-use most of the emulator work when they eventually release Wii games on the VC next next generation!)
 
bgassassin said:
I still can't see that. To me that contradicts IBM's press release about the CPU using their "unique" eDRAM.
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Not at all - if it's an SoC. Actually, the press release seems to support my theory. They don't mention L3 cache at all, and call the eDRAM "part of the silicon package", not "part of the CPU". They give "feeding the CPU data" as an example, but that doesn't mean it's the only the thing the eDRAM does or can do.
 
Videogamer.com said:
Third-parties encouraged by Nintendo to put a different spin on already proven franchises.


Nintendo's Katsuya Eguchi, senior producer of Nintendo EAD, has spoken to EDGE about third-party development on the Wii U, stating that he hopes publishers will offer different spins on already proven franchises.

"
Katsuya Eguchi said:
Of course we'll support them technically, giving any development assistance they require, but each third-party has their proven franchises - the franchises that have done really well for them," said Eguchi. "I'm hoping they'll be open to hearing suggestions, ideas from Nintendo on how to really take advantage of the Wii U's features and offer the public maybe a different spin on those already proven franchises."
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Nintendo will no doubt be hoping that developers have the same problem as the director of Super Mario Land 3D, who has too many ideas for Super Mario on Wii U.
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Don't know if this has been posted yet.
 
Sadist said:
From the Peter Moore article



Hmmmmm...
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Peter Moore, like most of the rest of the industry, knows that both companies are looking into APUs as the future of consoles. I've been saying it for months, but the odds are high that at least one of the other 2 console manufacturers will end up with a bulldozer APU, with 4-600 shader units just as the rumoured WiiU dev kits.

One manufacturer may decide to be the "OG XBox" of the generation but the focus on power for all of next generation has diminished to due to its associated cost, both monetary and thermal.
 
StevieP said:
Peter Moore, like most of the rest of the industry, knows that both companies are looking into APUs as the future of consoles. I've been saying it for months, but the odds are high that at least one of the other 2 console manufacturers will end up with a bulldozer APU, with 4-600 shader units just as the rumoured WiiU dev kits.

One manufacturer may decide to be the "OG XBox" of the generation but the focus on power for all of next generation has diminished to due to its associated cost, both monetary and thermal.
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True, I've also posted articles where other industry heads have been basically saying the same, but alot people just didn't want to listen.
 
DaSorcerer7 said:
True, I've also posted articles where other industry heads have been basically saying the same, but alot people just didn't want to listen.
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For a lot of people this is counter intuitive, and likely goes against their 'ma favorite console manufacturer is da powerhouse' teenage mentality.

Regardless, consoles have traditionally been (until the og xbox) this very careful balance of power and cost. OG xbox tipped the balance into the power direction (and sony bit the bait), but nintendo not only did not fall for it, but went to the other extreme. Now everybody needs to find the balance point again - sony from their 'outgun the competition' mentality, and nintendo, from their 'screw 3rd parties' ease of portability, we're self sufficient' mentality. Ironically, ms learned their og xbox lesson fast - 360 was the closest to the balance point this gen, alas it was plagued with manufacturing problems.
 
blu said:
For a lot of people this is counter intuitive, and likely goes against their 'ma favorite console manufacturer is da powerhouse' teenage mentality.

Regardless, consoles have traditionally been (until the og xbox) this very careful balance of power and cost. OG xbox tipped the balance into the power direction (and sony bit the bait), but nintendo not only did not fall for it, but went to the other extreme. Now everybody needs to find the balance point again - sony from their 'outgun the competition' mentality, and nintendo, from their 'screw 3rd parties' ease of portability, we're self sufficient' mentality. Ironically, ms learned their og xbox lesson fast - 360 was the closest to the balance point this gen, alas it was plagued with manufacturing problems.
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No, sorry. Both MS and Sony went for the 10 year plan. Both sold consoles for a loss and still were sold above mass market prices. Thats not balanced. The Wii was a balanced system but was simply overshadowed by having two leading console manufactures who wanted to leapfrog over a generation.
 
AceBandage said:
BC has become very important to Nintendo.
They'll either include Wii chips in the U or they'll make sure that the new stuff can perfectly run Wii games.
I mean, it shouldn't be that hard.
They both use a PowerPC CPU and a Radeon GPU.
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Wii doesn;t use a Radeon GPU though, it uses Hollywood, a faster version of Flipper which was designed before the first Radeon existed.
 
StevieP said:
Peter Moore, like most of the rest of the industry, knows that both companies are looking into APUs as the future of consoles. I've been saying it for months, but the odds are high that at least one of the other 2 console manufacturers will end up with a bulldozer APU, with 4-600 shader units just as the rumoured WiiU dev kits.

One manufacturer may decide to be the "OG XBox" of the generation but the focus on power for all of next generation has diminished to due to its associated cost, both monetary and thermal.
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GAF has depressing times ahead of itself if it's true. A lot of people are honestly obsessed over visuals here.
 
MDX said:
No, sorry. Both MS and Sony went for the 10 year plan. Both sold consoles for a loss and still were sold above mass market prices. Thats not balanced. The Wii was a balanced system but was simply overshadowed by having two leading console manufactures who wanted to leapfrog over a generation.
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Ms reached a break-even point with their hw by late '07/early '08, iirc. That's quite good for a design launched christmas '05. Also, outside of kinect, ms have not had a 10-year plan, and kinect was not something that was on the table by the beginning of the generation. Generally, short of manufacturing snafus, ms had a good hw generation. Not a stellar one, but a fairly good one. In contrast, sony's gen was a disaster. And nintendo's gen may have been a financial jackpot, but they were forced to move next-gen a tad prematurely or face dire consequences, and for hw reasons. Not exactly xbox-style, but still i'd say prematurely.
 
Coolwhip said:
Y

Did he mean continue to not use them? With the Wii barely being used by the majority of owners it makes you wonder if they really thought the naming through.
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Source? Because at last check, the game tie-ratio was quite good and near 360/PS3.
 
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