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[Roo]

You mean about there not being and 1T-SRAM in the WiiU?
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/890394/000104746912002721/a2207956z10-k.htm

Yeah, this is what I was talking about.
I didn't know if it was true or not but apparently it is. Thanks for the link.
Wonder what are they using to don't fuck up the BC

 

[AceBandage]

Yeah, this is what I was talking about.
I didn't know if it was true or not but apparently it is. Thanks for the link.
Wonder what are they using to don't fuck up the BC

Gold Pikmin

 

[Roo]

Gold Pikmin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYhZvc1AUbY#t=15s

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Rösti
Deep Throat

Fixed for accuracy? I'm concerned how he gets his info.

 

[Nibel]

Fixed for accuracy? I'm concerned how he gets his info.

His setup at home must look like this

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

But then again with backwards compatibility I'm not sure they need to make a separate version (that might also confuse consumers). Couldn't they just put some (or all) HD assets onto the Wii version as well and then give the Wii version some additional features when played on Wii U ?

Who am I fooling, that would be even more confusing. You're probably right.

Yeah, being able to put Wii U features into Wii games seems even less likely than putting Wii features into GCN games or DS features into GBA games, with the greater hardware differences.

A more recent inter-generational cross-platform Disney title came to mind: LEGO Pirates of the Caribbean on DS/3DS.

 

[HylianTom]

His setup at home must look like this

Hmm.. good image, but I imagine him wearing an "intrepid reporter's hat."

 

[MDX]

Oh hey, that's quite the question actually.

Would third-party controller manufacturer take the time to try and do their own Wii U Pad? I mean, it's quite a bit more complex than any controller.

Nintendo is going to make bank on extra controllers

 

[wsippel]

Since I suspected SoCtronics to be involved in the Wii U design, I dug a little deeper. Turns out at least one of my early conclusions was spot on: SoCtronics did, in fact, work with AMD Hyderabad on a GPU. And at least one more company was seemingly involved: Incube Solutions. Turns out Incube Solutions designs high performance audio DSPs (Incube APS), as well as custom realtime operating systems, drivers and frameworks for high performance multimedia applications.

The part they worked on is a 40nm GPU with GDDR5 interface, ~625 million transistors, which would put it roughly in line with Redwood (5570). Raw performance wise, that part would actually be about twice as fast as Xenos.

 

[nordique]

Since I suspected SoCtronics to be involved in the Wii U design, I dug a little deeper. Turns out at least one of my early conclusions was spot on: SoCtronics did, in fact, work with AMD Hyderabad on a GPU. And at least one more company was seemingly involved: Incube Solutions. Turns out Incube Solutions designs high performance audio DSPs (Incube APS), as well as custom realtime operating systems, drivers and frameworks for high performance multimedia applications.

The part they worked on is a 40nm GPU with GDDR5 interface, ~625 million transistors, which would put it roughly in line with Redwood (5570). Raw performance wise, that part would actually be about twice as fast as Xenos.

Very interesting

 

[HylianTom]

Nintendo is going to make bank on extra controllers

Yup. I can't fathom how angry someone will be when they find out that their toddler scribbled on the screen with crayola (or permanent marker). Or dropped it and cracked the screen.

$75 - at least - down the drain.

 

[ffdgh]

oh well, atlease there wont be any broken tv screens

 

[tkscz]

oh well, atlease there wont be any broken tv screens

So you say, but leave it to stupid people, they'll find a way.

 

[aeroslash]

Since I suspected SoCtronics to be involved in the Wii U design, I dug a little deeper. Turns out at least one of my early conclusions was spot on: SoCtronics did, in fact, work with AMD Hyderabad on a GPU. And at least one more company was seemingly involved: Incube Solutions. Turns out Incube Solutions designs high performance audio DSPs (Incube APS), as well as custom realtime operating systems, drivers and frameworks for high performance multimedia applications.

The part they worked on is a 40nm GPU with GDDR5 interface, ~625 million transistors, which would put it roughly in line with Redwood (5570). Raw performance wise, that part would actually be about twice as fast as Xenos.

So, if the 5570 had 400Spus, is that what we can expect from Wii U? Bad news if true...that would be the low end for me..

 

[AceBandage]

So, if the 5570 had 400Spus, is that what we can expect from Wii U? Bad news if true...that would be the low end for me..

You realize that everything he says means nothing, right?
It's one company that MIGHT be working on the Wii U's GPU, that worked with another company that worked on a completely unrelated GPU.

 

[aeroslash]

You realize that everything he says means nothing, right?
It's one company that MIGHT be working on the Wii U's GPU, that worked with another company that worked on a completely unrelated GPU.

I thought he was implying that the 40nm GPU with GDDR5 625m transistors was in fact the wii u gpu..

 

[wsippel]

You realize that everything he says means nothing, right?
It's one company that MIGHT be working on the Wii U's GPU, that worked with another company that worked on a completely unrelated GPU.

Huh? Who worked with whom on something unrelated? Re-read my post. The chip I mentioned is what I suspect to be the Wii U GPU.

 

[aeroslash]

Huh? Who worked with whom on something unrelated? Re-read my post. The chip I mentioned is what I suspect to be the Wii U GPU.

Thanks, that's exactly what i read...but AceBandage made me thought my english was worst than what i thought!

 

[AceBandage]

Huh? Who worked with whom on something unrelated? Re-read my post. The chip I mentioned is what I suspect to be the Wii U GPU.

Based on what, though?
You're guessing what company is working on the GPU.
And then you're taking a wild stab at which project they worked on is going to be in the Wii U.
I mean, you do some great analysis and give some good info, man.
But this is reaching pretty far.

Nintendo is going to be using a custom chip and custom GPU. Trying to decipher anything from past projects, which may or may not even be related, is worthless.

 

[pieatorium]

It would make alot more sense for a lowermid end rv800 series chip than any rv700 (which was the early rumours iirc) because of dx11 support (feature support not the api which I don't think gets used in console games) since the next sony and MS machines will definately be having that.

 

[wsippel]

Based on what, though?
You're guessing what company is working on the GPU.
And then you're taking a wild stab at which project they worked on is going to be in the Wii U.
I mean, you do some great analysis and give some good info, man.
But this is reaching pretty far.

Nintendo is going to be using a custom chip and custom GPU. Trying to decipher anything from past projects, which may or may not even be related, is worthless.

I'm not reaching far, I'm connecting dots:

• The Wii U GPU was in the works at AMD Hyderabad from June 2009 to June 2011
• SoCtronics worked with AMD Hyderabad from 2009 to June 2011
• SoCtronics worked with AMD on the GPU I described
• The GPU in question is not available at retail and doesn't match any off-the-shelf AMD GPU

 

[AlStrong]

It would make alot more sense for a lowermid end rv800 series chip than any rv700 (which was the early rumours iirc) because of dx11 support (feature support not the api which I don't think gets used in console games) since the next sony and MS machines will definately be having that.

Whose bright idea was it to use an rv7xx generation chip for a 2011 dev kit.

 

[AceBandage]

I'm not reaching far, I'm connecting dots:

• The Wii U GPU was in the works at AMD Hyderabad from June 2009 to June 2011
• SoCtronics worked with AMD Hyderabad from 2009 to June 2011
• SoCtronics worked with AMD on the GPU I described
• The GPU in question is not available at retail and doesn't match any off-the-shelf AMD GPU

We'll see.
But I don't think it's nearly that easy or simple.

 

[MrBelmontvedere]

So, if the 5570 had 400Spus, is that what we can expect from Wii U? Bad news if true...that would be the low end for me..

I think 2x 360 performance would be about right. it would enable easy current gen ports, with basic upgrades (IOW real 720p for all current games.)

Nintendo will show off Wii U at this years E3 while Sony/MS will have a laser focus on current platforms with NO mention at all of next gen (IMO.) that will make Wii U look very good indeed.

 

[Door2Dawn]

The 2x graphics difference is pretty what Ideaman has been saying right?

 

[aeroslash]

The 2x graphics difference is pretty what Ideaman has been saying right?

Yes, but if we take into account the second screen as discussed before, we may be looking at a console with a graphics output slightly better than x360, which in my opinion would be suicidal.

 

[pieatorium]

The 2x graphics difference is pretty what Ideaman has been saying right?

It would also sort of fit what that arkham guy said about features but not really powerfull, although I think it's pretty clear that his stuff was all based of older kits compared to everything else we have heard.

 

[EloquentM]

and here we go.

 

[Nibel]

I was bored and made a cheap ass NIN mockup

The TV scrolls through new and interesting stuff, shows the rating for example. Maybe the rating-stars can switch with the price or something.
You all know that with most games on 3DS you can activate SpotPass or StreetPass - it would be cool if every game would ask you if you are interested in more content so that games that you have no interest in don't show up on the TV.

I didn't have enough motivation for the controller screen :lol
But you can see a list of possible activities, a search bar, highlighted stuff in special boxes and so on.

I just hope that the app store isn't going to be just "eShop big screen version", even though I admit I carried over some aspects of it.

 

[Instro]

Since I suspected SoCtronics to be involved in the Wii U design, I dug a little deeper. Turns out at least one of my early conclusions was spot on: SoCtronics did, in fact, work with AMD Hyderabad on a GPU. And at least one more company was seemingly involved: Incube Solutions. Turns out Incube Solutions designs high performance audio DSPs (Incube APS), as well as custom realtime operating systems, drivers and frameworks for high performance multimedia applications.

The part they worked on is a 40nm GPU with GDDR5 interface, ~625 million transistors, which would put it roughly in line with Redwood (5570). Raw performance wise, that part would actually be about twice as fast as Xenos.

Hm an interesting thought. This would also go against the 1TFLOP statement as well wouldn't it?

 

[stupidvillager]

Huh? Who worked with whom on something unrelated? Re-read my post. The chip I mentioned is what I suspect to be the Wii U GPU.

Wouldnt a 5670 also fit that description.

 

[AceBandage]

I was bored and made a cheap ass NIN mockup



The TV scrolls through new and interesting stuff, shows the rating for example. Maybe the rating-stars can switch with the price or something.
You all know that with most games on 3DS you can activate SpotPass or StreetPass - it would be cool if every game would ask you if you are interested in more content so that games that you have no interest in don't show up on the TV.

I didn't have enough motivation for the controller screen :lol
But you can see a list of possible activities, a search bar, highlighted stuff in special boxes and so on.

I just hope that the app store isn't going to be just "eShop big screen version", even though I admit I carried over some aspects of it.

It's a bit more like PSN, but that's not a bad thing.
They really do need to sort out the eShop better.
They can still do their channels where they shove new content in your face, but being able to easily separate it by Title, Genre such should be avaliable right from the go.

 

[nordique]

It would also sort of fit what that arkham guy said about features but not really powerfull, although I think it's pretty clear that his stuff was all based of older kits compared to everything else we have heard.

Right. Its important to note what wsippel is saying:

I'm not reaching far, I'm connecting dots:

• The Wii U GPU was in the works at AMD Hyderabad from June 2009 to June 2011
• SoCtronics worked with AMD Hyderabad from 2009 to June 2011
• SoCtronics worked with AMD on the GPU I described
• The GPU in question is not available at retail and doesn't match any off-the-shelf AMD GPU

I assume this is before the "newer" devkits you mentioned about a few months ago? I am asking because of the dates you mentioned (work ended in June 2011); unless this GPU was the one added to the "beefed up" devkits.


Regardless, good digging around man.

 

[Xellos]

Since I suspected SoCtronics to be involved in the Wii U design, I dug a little deeper. Turns out at least one of my early conclusions was spot on: SoCtronics did, in fact, work with AMD Hyderabad on a GPU. And at least one more company was seemingly involved: Incube Solutions. Turns out Incube Solutions designs high performance audio DSPs (Incube APS), as well as custom realtime operating systems, drivers and frameworks for high performance multimedia applications.

The part they worked on is a 40nm GPU with GDDR5 interface, ~625 million transistors, which would put it roughly in line with Redwood (5570). Raw performance wise, that part would actually be about twice as fast as Xenos.

Nice find. Seems like a typical Nintendo selection (good enough performance, low power/heat) and matches most of the rumors (even the one about 720 dev kits using 6670 and being 20% faster than Wii U).

Personally, I'd be pretty happy if this is what Nintendo has chosen. My baseline hope was for something around a 6570 and a 5570 is not that far off.

 

[EloquentM]

Yes, but if we take into account the second screen as discussed before, we may be looking at a console with a graphics output slightly better than x360, which in my opinion would be suicidal.

why would it be suicidal? In what type of game would it be applicable to have a game rendering assets and environments at the level of a 360 on both screens?

 

[Log4Girlz]

I'm not reaching far, I'm connecting dots:

• The Wii U GPU was in the works at AMD Hyderabad from June 2009 to June 2011
• SoCtronics worked with AMD Hyderabad from 2009 to June 2011
• SoCtronics worked with AMD on the GPU I described
• The GPU in question is not available at retail and doesn't match any off-the-shelf AMD GPU

Interesting...very interesting.

 

[Easy_D]

why would it be suicidal? In what type of game would it be applicable to have a game rendering assets and environments at the level of a 360 on both screens?

Having two perspectives doesn't necessarily mean it renders all the polygons and stuff twice though, right? I'm assuming it's not much different than let's say, rearview mirrors in racing games, just that it's outputting that info to another screen. Or am I completely off here?

 

[Refreshment.01]

I think 2x 360 performance would be about right. it would enable easy current gen ports, with basic upgrades (IOW real 720p for all current games.)

Nintendo will show off Wii U at this years E3 while Sony/MS will have a laser focus on current platforms with NO mention at all of next gen (IMO.) that will make Wii U look very good indeed.

So after 6/7 years you think is alright to expect a 2x jump? Basically in that scenario the WiiU is relegated to the same experiences possible in this generation of consoles. Im talking about the experiences that are influenced by processing power more tan the input device. That doesn't seem good enough and again way behind the expectations of transitioning to a new cycle of consoles. It will hurt the company in the long run, we should remember this devices are expected to have a shelf life of 4/5 years.

What would be cool is if NIntendo or any other company would found a clever solution to do a console hardware update near 1/2 of the system's life. ANd yes, i m aware of the consequences of doing this type of stunt, that's why i said a "clever" way

 

[wsippel]

Wouldnt a 5670 also fit that description.

The 5670 is just an overclocked 5570, so yes. Also, knowing all this, this is an unidentified AMD prototype GPU from Q3 2011:

And this is Redwood:

The prototype chip is a MCM (multi chip module), like this one (Hollywood):

Maybe the prototype chip actually is the Wii U GPU, with the eDRAM on a separate die. Like Hollywood, basically. Which would mean that the eDRAM wouldn't be part of the 625 million transistors.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

It's not a 2x jump in all places though. For instance RAM is a much bigger jump...

 

[TwilightPrincess]

Yes, but if we take into account the second screen as discussed before, we may be looking at a console with a graphics output slightly better than x360, which in my opinion would be suicidal.

2x 360 raw power on paper doesn´t really mean everything, the architecture will probably be more efficient and modern. Ideaman spoke about 2x 360 in what you will see on the screen with the uPad in mind. Other parts should/could be 4 to 5 times more powerfull on paper. In the end we should judge the output on the TV screen with our own eyes.

But yeah, i hoped for a stronger system (1 teraflops GPU). Lets see. Perhaps lherre and Ideaman can give us some statements about that.

 

[Log4Girlz]

So after 6/7 years you think is alright to expect a 2x jump? Basically in that scenario the WiiU is relegated to the same experiences possible in this generation of consoles. Im talking about the experiences that are influenced by processing power more tan the input device. That doesn't seem good enough and again way behind the expectations of transitioning to a new cycle of consoles. It will hurt the company in the long run, we should remember this devices are expected to have a shelf life of 4/5 years.

What would be cool is if NIntendo or any other company would found a clever solution to do a console hardware update near 1/2 of the system's life. ANd yes, i m aware of the consequences of doing this type of stunt, that's why i said a "clever" way

This is well above 2x the power of the Wii.

 

[aeroslash]

why would it be suicidal? In what type of game would it be applicable to have a game rendering assets and environments at the level of a 360 on both screens?

I haven't said we will have 360 level graphics on the two screens. But as it was mentioned earlier in this same thread, a second output usually translate to a 30% less performance from the GPU, that would mean approximately one and a half times above 360. I know this numbers are silly, but in general terms plus the theory of the diminishing returns..i don't think that will be sufficient to see a significant improvement over 360.

Having two perspectives doesn't necessarily mean it renders all the polygons and stuff twice though, right? I'm assuming it's not much different than let's say, rearview mirrors in racing games, just that it's outputting that info to another screen. Or am I completely off here?

As i said above, i have not said it will have to render all the stuff twice. We had a discussion about that a few pages ago..

2x 360 raw power on paper doesn´t really mean everything, the architecture will probably be more efficient and modern. Ideaman spoke about 2x 360 in what you will see on the screen with the uPad in mind. Other parts should/could be 4 to 5 times more powerfull on paper. In the end we should judge the output on the TV screen with our own eyes.

But yeah, i hoped for a stronger system (1 teraflops GPU). Lets see. Perhaps lherre and Ideaman can give us some statements about that.

I know that, thanks anyway. I wanted to say that if the final output is less than 2x (stupid numbers..) it will be difficult to see a difference with the 360.

 

[IdeaMan]

A very captivating interview of Warren Spector by GI, before the full official revelation of its next project next week

After Epic Mickey 2, we can expect a Duck Tales game (or a Marvel one) for the Wii U ?

Q: I know you've said a zillion times how you would absolutely love to do a DuckTales game. Is there any progress on that front? Also, I know Disney owns Marvel, so would you have interest in working on a Marvel game?

Warren Spector: Yeah, you know, there are all sorts of things I'd love to do. I mean one of the biggest thrills of my life was two years ago at E3; I met Stan Lee. I wrote a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book for the Marvel Superheroes game called "One Thing After Another." It was a Fantastic Four thing. And I got to type the words "It's Clobbering Time" on Page 1, and know that Stan Lee was going to read it, and then I got him to autograph my copy of my book! So, yeah, I'd love to do a Marvel game. That would be awesome some time. And a Duck game, you know, some day people are going to get tired of me saying, "I want to do a Duck game. I want to do a Duck game. I want to do a Duck game."

Q: Keep saying it until Disney gives in, right? (Laughter)

Warren Spector: Absolutely. That's the way to get what you want, man. It just becomes so annoying they have no choice. That's how I get everything in life. You can ask my wife about that too. (laughter)

Please Warren, DO WANT :insertsquirrelwantingpeanutsjpeg:

btw, entertainment time on this saturday, with the french opening theme of Duck Tales, it was named "la bande a Picsou" (Scrooge's Band), and that was huge back in those days, ahhhh, these memoriesssss /love

 

[EvilDick34]

I like graphics, it is part of the gaming experience imo and with Nintendo being cheap as fuck with the Wii i wanted them to knock one out of the park in terms of power with the WiiU and i suspect i am going to be let down on this big time, go go cheap ass Nintendo :/ .

 

[Easy_D]

I haven't said we will have 360 level graphics on the two screens. But as it was mentioned earlier in this same thread, a second output usually translate to a 30% less performance from the GPU, that would mean approximately one and a half times above 360. I know this numbers are silly, but in general terms plus the theory of the diminishing returns..i don't think that will be sufficient to see a significant improvement over 360.



As i said above, i have not said it will have to render all the stuff twice. We had a discussion about that a few pages ago..

Ah, I interpreted your post as saying "It wont have an impact if the graphics being rendered on the U-Pad are of lower quality" or something

 

[AceBandage]

I like graphics, it is part of the gaming experience imo and with Nintendo being cheap as fuck with the Wii i wanted them to knock one out of the park in terms of power with the WiiU and i suspect i am going to be let down on this big time, go go cheap ass Nintendo :/ .

EvilDick34
Please, don't feed the troll.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I like graphics, it is part of the gaming experience imo and with Nintendo being cheap as fuck with the Wii i wanted them to knock one out of the park in terms of power with the WiiU and i suspect i am going to be let down on this big time, go go cheap ass Nintendo :/ .

Buy a PC

 

[EvilDick34]

EvilDick34
Please, don't feed the troll.

How am i trolling? Because i stated my fear of Nintendo going cheap again? Stop being lazy Ace, you are the one trolling.

 

[EvilDick34]

Buy a PC

I've always been a PC gamer ;-). In fact i'm currently speccing out a new build as we speak!! If one thing never lets me down, it's the PC!!