Wii U Speculation Thread The Third: Casting Dreams in The Castle of Miyamoto

HylianTom said:
a future of shiny troll asswart hair!
Click to expand...

So thats what the APUs graphics unit in the PS4 is meant for :)

What i meant with "matured" is that guys, like me, that grew up with SNES/N64 are now so old, that they dont care about trolls.

Alot of trolls havent even ben around pre PS2/Xbox/Cube

I remember the times when the cube was coming. It was hard being a Nintendo fan on the internet. And still being receptive to troll attempts. Got better with the Wii in 2006 but the last 2 to 3 years i just dont give a damn about trolls...

Now back to topic :

Does Havoc have a complete "gamessystem" by now?

Didnt know that. I thought they just made a physics engine!
 
MDX said:
The mystery that we have is why NINTENDO had no problem showing trailers of PS3 & 360 games to represent titles coming out for the WiiU, but had a problem with VIGIL (and others) showing their game that was already on par with the PS3 & 360 on the show floor?

What is Nitnendo game? Why have they had such a strict NDA this whole year regarding the WiiU? There is more to this than meets the eye. If Nintendo was not concerned about being as good as the PS360, they would have no problem showcasing various third party titles to the public this past year. They could have at least shown full games running behind close doors.

Im getting hyped for E3.
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Yeah, They want to have a game with graphics that surpass PS360 so people understand that it is a next gen console and not just another HD console. They can't do that with demos, so I'm sure Nintendo has something stunning to show off, probably what Retro has been working on, as they are much more western style when it comes to graphics then the rest of Nintendo.
 
MDX said:
This is what I read from back in July 2011.


http://nexus404.com/Blog/2011/07/19...ual-concessions-with-wii-u-darksiders-2-port/

There is definitely something shady going on with Vigil and Nintendo, and possibly other developers.

Here is why...

VIGIL stated:


As we know they managed this in just 5 weeks:



In 5 weeks they have the whole game ready to show ON PAR with the HDTWINS during E3.
And we know VIGIL already stated the console was more powerful last year around E3:



This would be based on which devkit?
Thats almost a year ago. Are you telling me that during that time they have not been able to tweak this game to look or run better on the WiiU? But thats not the mystery here. The mystery that we have is why NINTENDO had no problem showing trailers of PS3 & 360 games to represent titles coming out for the WiiU, but had a problem with VIGIL (and others) showing their game that was already on par with the PS3 & 360 on the show floor?

What is Nitnendo game? Why have they had such a strict NDA this whole year regarding the WiiU? There is more to this than meets the eye. If Nintendo was not concerned about being as good as the PS360, they would have no problem showcasing various third party titles to the public this past year. They could have at least shown full games running behind close doors.

Im getting hyped for E3.
Click to expand...

Just a thought but its not exactly in thq/vigil's best interest to talk up the wiiu version before the ps360 versions release, they need people to buy those versions asap they need the money, they wont want people holding off til xmas for the better version
 
z0m3le said:
Yeah, They want to have a game with graphics that surpass PS360 so people understand that it is a next gen console and not just another HD console. They can't do that with demos, so I'm sure Nintendo has something stunning to show off, probably what Retro has been working on, as they are much more western style when it comes to graphics then the rest of Nintendo.
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Nailed it!

Imagine if Nintendo showed a game last year that didnt look better than Xbox 360 and PS3... We would be on Thread 27 by now with people laughing and saying "HAHA look it just looks like current gen!!"

This would have left Nintendo with a whole year of negative impact on from the internet. They avoided this. I really wouldn't have to dig through massive pages of trolling to pick the few good posts/discussions hidden inbetween!
 
ColdBlooder said:
Does Havoc have a complete "gamessystem" by now?

Didnt know that. I thought they just made a physics engine!
Click to expand...
Yes, since they acquired Trinigy a while ago. Trinigy was a German company, and it seems the engine was mostly used by European and especially German developers (Ambient, FireFly, Zed, Spellbound, Blue Byte), but I guess that might change now.
 
wsippel said:
Yes, since they acquired Trinigy a while ago. Trinigy was a German company, and it seems the engine was mostly used by European and especially German developers (Ambient, FireFly, Zed, Spellbound, Blue Byte), but I guess that might change now.
Click to expand...

I live in Germany and didn't know that. Hats off to you, good man :)
 
Someone can confirm this to me?

I heard that the canned AMD Krishna was being developed by AMD Hyderabad, perhaps it has any relationship with Wii U GPU.
 
ColdBlooder said:
Nailed it!

Imagine if Nintendo showed a game last year that didnt look better than Xbox 360 and PS3... We would be on Thread 27 by now with people laughing and saying "HAHA look it just looks like current gen!!"

This would have left Nintendo with a whole year of negative impact on from the internet. They avoided this. I really wouldn't have to dig through massive pages of trolling to pick the few good posts/discussions hidden inbetween!
Click to expand...

One reason I don't quite buy into reporting that states that Nintendo is pissed about underpowered rumors? We're expecting them to blow the doors off at E3, and these rumors are serving to keep expectations a bit low.

Hell, they and Vigil might indeed have a deal where Vigil can say the kinds of weird, inconsistent things they've been revealing. There's hope for fans, and there's ammunition for haters & trolls wanting to sell short the system - just enough info to keep both sides feeling good about the strength of their argument. Both sides can battle onward, Vigil gets attention for their new game, and Nintendo gets its expectations game teed-up for E3.

Pretty masterful if this is all deliberate. And it would demonstrate quite a good understanding of the internet on Nintendo's part. But surely there's a cleaner, simpler explanation.. right? I'm not liking how this tinfoil hat fits. Not one bit.
 
HylianTom said:
One reason I don't quite buy into reporting that states that Nintendo is pissed about underpowered rumors? We're expecting them to blow the doors off at E3, and these rumors are serving to keep expectations a bit low.

Hell, they and Vigil might indeed have a deal where Vigil can say the kinds of weird, inconsistent things they've been revealing. There's hope for fans, and there's ammunition for haters & trolls wanting to sell short the system - just enough info to keep both sides feeling good about the strength of their argument. Both sides can battle onward, Vigil gets attention for their new game, and Nintendo gets its expectations game teed-up for E3.

Pretty masterful if this is all deliberate. And it would demonstrate quite a good understanding of the internet on Nintendo's part. But surely there's a cleaner, simpler explanation.. right? I'm not liking how this tinfoil hat fits. Not one bit.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that definitely requires tinfoil hats, the truth is none of that matters, people who want to believe the conspiracies can, because it changes nothing in the end. Wii U will end up "2x-4x" more powerful than current gen machines, some of us will see it, some of us won't, and it will only really show its power on exclusives (1st, 2nd and 3rd parties) but some multiplatform games should show a better image quality on Wii U, Gearbox's alien game is a good example of it, as they have said they will push higher resolution textures on Wii U and that Aliens for Wii U will look better then "some of the other things" (HD consoles in this case)

So feel free to take off the tin foil hat, we are getting a great console, that will be powerful and unique, but most importantly it will bring another generation of Nintendo gaming, it will bring Nintendo's online community together (talking about NiN not gaf) give us an amazingly cool way to play virtual games through the new controller, give us asymmetric gaming and give us as many third parties that aren't tied down to Microsoft or Sony as possible.

The funny thing about that last paragraph, it reads like a fan boy dream, but it's really a very reasonable expectation.
 
frankie_baby said:
Just a thought but its not exactly in thq/vigil's best interest to talk up the wiiu version before the ps360 versions release, they need people to buy those versions asap they need the money, they wont want people holding off til xmas for the better version
Click to expand...

You bet, VIGIL started their series on the Twins, and grew a fanbase there. They wouldnt want to piss them off with an inferior looking version of the game. At the same time they want to also sell on the WiiU. So they are walking a tightrope.
 
A small technical question here:

There is probably a pc version of Darksiders 2, no ? If so, what's the point of porting an inferior version, if the WiiU is actually more powerfull ? The pc version will at least have a better rez...
 
z0m3le said:
So feel free to take off the tin foil hat, we are getting a great console, that will be powerful and unique, but most importantly it will bring another generation of Nintendo gaming, it will bring Nintendo's online community together (talking about NiN not gaf) give us an amazingly cool way to play virtual games through the new controller, give us asymmetric gaming and give us as many third parties that aren't tied down to Microsoft or Sony as possible.

The funny thing about that last paragraph, it reads like a fan boy dream, but it's really a very reasonable expectation.
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Indeed, it sounds perfectly fine to expect. But then again, this is coming from a fanboy, so..

With their new online features, I really, really would love to see some sort of message board system, like a revival of the Nsider forums, but with its own channel in the system. That'd be one heck of a fantastic way to bring the community into one place. Tie-in the user's profile to his/her Mii (or whatever avatar they so choose), connect it to the Club Nintendo account, keep the user's accomplishments on their profile, etc etc.. now I'm getting into fantasy territory.
 
orioto said:
A small technical question here:

There is probably a pc version of Darksiders 2, no ? If so, what's the point of porting an inferior version, if the WiiU is actually more powerfull ? The pc version will at least have a better rez...
Click to expand...

The original Darksiders didn't have much options in the PC version if I recall. I kinda doubt 2 will be different.
 
wsippel said:
No surprises, but Havok finally got around to update their website and now mentions Wii U support for the following middleware packages:

Havok Physics
Havok Animation
Havok Behavior
Havok Destruction
Havok Cloth
Havok AI
Havok Script
Havok Vision Engine (formerly Trinigy Vision Game Engine)

Everything, basically. Still nothing from Autodesk, Epic or Crytek.
Click to expand...

Does Nintendo's deal include all of the above technologies? Will Nintendo supply all of the Havok technologies that you listed?
 
magash said:
Does Nintendo's deal include all of the above technologies? Will Nintendo supply all of the Havok technologies that you listed?
Click to expand...

Nintendo doesn't supply them. Use of Havok code in engines is up to developers/publisher to seek out on their own. Nintendo may use Havok themselves, though.
 
EatChildren said:
Nintendo doesn't supply them. Use of Havok code in engines is up to developers/publisher to seek out on their own. Nintendo may use Havok themselves, though.
Click to expand...

What I mean is that Nintendo recently entered into an agreement with Havok in which Havok will give developers making Wii U games access to Havok technologies for free. The question is will the Havok technology supplied to the developers for free include things like Havok Trinigy Vision Engine?
 
orioto said:
A small technical question here:

There is probably a pc version of Darksiders 2, no ? If so, what's the point of porting an inferior version, if the WiiU is actually more powerfull ? The pc version will at least have a better rez...
Click to expand...

It's already been discussed, DS2 does have a pc version, and it won't really do much more from a graphics stand point, really only the resolution will change, but applying that same change to the Wii U might run into bottlenecks as it's not so easy as dragging and dropping it in, besides the Wii U won't be as powerful as a high end PC, it will fall right in between a 360 and a high end PC IMO.

That last statement I made that is bolded, really doesn't mean you can compare high end PCs to the Wii U to figure out how games will look, because PC games simply are not designed with high end PC specs in mind, so you'll get something that looks a lot like that zelda or bird demo for early wii u 1st 2nd and 3rd party exclusives, and small improvements like higher res or higher res textures or aa or frame rate increases for Wii U over the PS360 games.

at the end of the console's life, it will have better looking games, but I wouldn't expect them to look "beyond" the bird demo, simply more polish, higher poly counts, maybe higher resolution, stuff of that nature.

magash said:
What I mean is that Nintendo recently entered into an agreement with Havok in which Havok will give developers making Wii U games access to Havok technologies for free. The question is will the Havok technology supplied to the developers for free include things like Havok Trinigy Vision Engine?
Click to expand...
This is how I understand it, but I could be wrong.
 
orioto said:
A small technical question here:

There is probably a pc version of Darksiders 2, no ? If so, what's the point of porting an inferior version, if the WiiU is actually more powerfull ? The pc version will at least have a better rez...
Click to expand...
The reasons could be various:

(a) PC version assets are actually too high quality for unmodified use on the WiiU without affecting the fps.
(b) Console SKU texture assets are already tuned for 720p, so unless WiiU SKU was run at a higher output res, there's no point in using higher-res textures. And from what we've heard, WiiU version will not be running at a higher res fb.
(c) There's some asset streaming which would underperform if used with high-volume PC assets on the lower-speed console medium.
(d) Some combination of the above.
 
magash said:
What I mean is that Nintendo recently entered into an agreement with Havok in which Havok will give developers making Wii U games access to Havok technologies for free. The question is will the Havok technology supplied to the developers for free include things like Havok Trinigy Vision Engine?
Click to expand...
Only Physics and Animation. Everything else has to be licensed throught Havok.
 
Concerning when Mario may show up on the system, I believe a launch title could be possible from EAD Tokyo studio 1. Remember, Iwata said that the 2D 3DS Mario game would be released this fiscal year- so anytime between now and 3/31/13. I can see Nintendo launching Wii U in September* with a Mario game, then the 2D 3DS game in March. That would be a span of 6 months between games- the same span of time between New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Super Mario Galaxy 2.

* = I know the rumor is November, but I don't think that makes much sense. If they launch in November, it will be in a period when all the major 3rd party multiplatform games have just been or are being released (Call of Duty, Resident Evil 6, Medal of Honor, Assassin's Creed, etc.). Combine those with whatever Nintendo is launching with, and the late ports (Batman, Darksiders, Ninja Gaiden, etc.) will be completely overlooked. Not to mention no one is going to re-buy Madden in November, even if it is the ultimate version with play-making, when the season will be half over and people would have been playing with their team from the PS3 or X360 version for months. I think a better solution would be to launch in September with Nintendo's launch titles and the late ports, let the 3rd parties have October and November to themselves, and then Nintendo could have a follow-up launch release title in December.
 
Selfish time, but I've been awake for the last 2 weeks and barely had internet access, let alone time to read this thread. Anyone will to help me out and share what's been going on lately?? :)
 
So what's the deal with that ViVi touch haptic thing? Is it an add-on or built into the screen? Sounds kinda interesting the idea of haptic feedback but I wonder what kind of applications it will have in games?
 
Anybody has a guess on the price?

I'm thinking the price will tell a lot about the system itself. Nintendo doesn't like to lose money on hardware, and the controller will eat up a good chunk of the system's price.
 
blu said:
The reasons could be various:

(a) PC version assets are actually too high quality for unmodified use on the WiiU without affecting the fps.
(b) Console SKU texture assets are already tuned for 720p, so unless WiiU SKU was run at a higher output res, there's no point in using higher-res textures. And from what we've heard, WiiU version will not be running at a higher res fb.
(c) There's some asset streaming which would underperform if used with high-volume PC assets on the lower-speed console medium.
(d) Some combination of the above.
Click to expand...

Thx, and z0m3le to for the explanations !
 
radcliff said:
Concerning when Mario may show up on the system, I believe a launch title could be possible from EAD Tokyo studio 1. Remember, Iwata said that the 2D 3DS Mario game would be released this fiscal year- so anytime between now and 3/31/13. I can see Nintendo launching Wii U in September* with a Mario game, then the 2D 3DS game in March. That would be a span of 6 months between games- the same span of time between New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Super Mario Galaxy 2.
Click to expand...

What has the team that made New super mario bros been doing while EAD has been making Galaxy 2 and Mario 3DS ?
 
radcliff said:
Concerning when Mario may show up on the system, I believe a launch title could be possible from EAD Tokyo studio 1. Remember, Iwata said that the 2D 3DS Mario game would be released this fiscal year- so anytime between now and 3/31/13. I can see Nintendo launching Wii U in September* with a Mario game, then the 2D 3DS game in March. That would be a span of 6 months between games- the same span of time between New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Super Mario Galaxy 2.

* = I know the rumor is November, but I don't think that makes much sense. If they launch in November, it will be in a period when all the major 3rd party multiplatform games have just been or are being released (Call of Duty, Resident Evil 6, Medal of Honor, Assassin's Creed, etc.). Combine those with whatever Nintendo is launching with, and the late ports (Batman, Darksiders, Ninja Gaiden, etc.) will be completely overlooked. Not to mention no one is going to re-buy Madden in November, even if it is the ultimate version with play-making, when the season will be half over and people would have been playing with their team from the PS3 or X360 version for months. I think a better solution would be to launch in September with Nintendo's launch titles and the late ports, let the 3rd parties have October and November to themselves, and then Nintendo could have a follow-up launch release title in December.
Click to expand...

I'm still not decided on what would make more sense:

A) Launch system with a 2D Mario that appeals to all
B) Launch system with a 3D Mario Galaxy that takes full advantage of the system's power
 
ColdBlooder said:
Their propably already developing that highly advanced "asswart hair" physic engine that at least needs the power of 2 xbox 360 duct taped together :)

EDIT: btw we should really compile a list of names that the trolls have given us over the years and vote on the best one :D

its rather funny that most (unfortanetly not all... you will be missed Ubermatik) are totally resistent to troll attempts. Nintendo gamers sure have matured over the last years!
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It's Jedi Mind Training
 
Nibel said:
Trademark issues..? Hopefully!
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I know I am in the vast minority here, but Wii U has really grown on me. It wisely keeps the Wii brand, and the "U" makes Nintendo (from a brand integrity standpoint) accountable.

Although I do think they should have just rolled with Wii 2.


XPE said:
What has the team that made New super mario bros been doing while EAD has been making Galaxy 2 and Mario 3DS ?
Click to expand...

Pikmin 3, hopefully.
 
Plinko said:
I'm still not decided on what would make more sense:

A) Launch system with a 2D Mario that appeals to all
B) Launch system with a 3D Mario Galaxy that takes full advantage of the system's power
Click to expand...

Neither.

Lets not forget that a big portion of the Wii user base bought Wii for Wiisports and fitness.
What Nintendo should do, if they want to keep the Wii name, is come out with another killer "Wii" titled app for launch. That should keep them busy till the next E3. Year two and three, to maintain momentum, and steal thunder from Sony/MS releases, I see Nintendo releasing their main Mario titles.

WiiU will have some major titles from third parties keeping it strong, unlike the Wii. Games like GTA5, DragonQuest, etc. will broaden the appeal of the Wii brand.
 
XPE said:
What has the team that made New super mario bros been doing while EAD has been making Galaxy 2 and Mario 3DS ?
Click to expand...

NSMB Wii team is assumed to be working on the 2D 3DS Mario title with a smaller sub-set of this group working on Pikmin 3. EAD Tokyo 1 has released nothing developed internally since Galaxy 1 (although they did collaborate with GREZZO on OOT 3D), and EAD Tokyo Group 2 last released Mario 3D Land.
 
Plinko said:
I'm still not decided on what would make more sense:

A) Launch system with a 2D Mario that appeals to all
B) Launch system with a 3D Mario Galaxy that takes full advantage of the system's power
Click to expand...

The launch alone will sustain itself. Save the 2D Mario for next season to drive sales.
 
WrikaWrek said:
Anybody has a guess on the price?

I'm thinking the price will tell a lot about the system itself. Nintendo doesn't like to lose money on hardware, and the controller will eat up a good chunk of the system's price.
Click to expand...

Nobody knows, Nintendo probably has an idea of where they want to be already. It's safe to assume $299-$399. We also need to consider just how much they want to compete with existing hardware. If so by the time the Wii-U rolls out we can expect Xbox 360 and PS3 price cuts.

The controller to me is the big issue since it's what's apparently trying to separate itself from other game platforms. Since current controllers go for about $50-60 how much will this one be worth/cost? Nintendo will need to sell these controllers separately if they ever break or if the Wii-U can support more than one (i'm not sure).

Nintendo would never venture above the $399 mark, it's just not their market to price themselves that high. I'm sure they would love to offer this for $299 but it may prove difficult.

What I'm curious is software pricing and where we go from here. If Wii games are on average $50 and PS3/Xbox 360 games are $60 will that mean Wii-U games will be $60? What about PS4 and the next Xbox? With Nintendo staggering the launch into next gen and nobody sure just how it lines up with current hardware or the other consoles coming from Sony and Microsoft it's difficult to say.

MDX said:
Neither.

Lets not forget that a big portion of the Wii user base bought Wii for Wiisports and fitness.
What Nintendo should do, if they want to keep the Wii name, is come out with another killer "Wii" titled app for launch. That should keep them busy till the next E3. Year two and three, to maintain momentum, and steal thunder from Sony/MS releases, I see Nintendo releasing their main Mario titles.

WiiU will have some major titles from third parties keeping it strong, unlike the Wii. Games like GTA5, DragonQuest, etc. will broaden the appeal lf the Wii brand.
Click to expand...

Nintendo is most likely trying to be strategic for it's own software dates for the Wii-U. They know certain franchises will sell regardless of timing. They do not want a huge lull in big releases and will space them out accordingly. I expect maybe 1 or 2 strong launch titles from them to pave room for a few strong 3rd party games. They already said they don't want to smother 3rd party devs with their own games. I myself would love to see a new Mario game at launch. I find it very exciting to play a new Mario game on new hardware.
 
Plinko said:
I'm still not decided on what would make more sense:

A) Launch system with a 2D Mario that appeals to all
B) Launch system with a 3D Mario Galaxy that takes full advantage of the system's power
Click to expand...

B should theoretically be possible for launch from EAD Tokyo 1 and would serve as a great showcase for the system. A is currently in development for 3DS, so a Wii U follow-up could be released a couple years later. Essentially, 3D Mario Wii U 2012 -> 2D Mario Wii U 2014.
 
I don't think we'll see a mario platformer 2d or 3d at or near the wii u launch. The next big mario game is the 2d mario platformer Iwata announced for the 3ds. I think Nintendo is gonna give that mario game room to sell and sell and boost the 3ds before releasing the next big mario game.
 
I don't think NSMB3 sales on 3DS would be affected at all by games like Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed. Both 3D Land and NSMBW released in November next to those types of games with no real sales or attention issues. I've said this before, but I think the launch period and maybe first year or more will be focused on smaller (which is still maybe near two million or more) core titles from Nintendo and then they'll roll out games considered to be the heavy hitters (Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros) later on.
 
artwalknoon said:
I don't think we'll see a mario platformer 2d or 3d at or near the wii u launch. The next big mario game is the 2d mario platformer Iwata announced for the 3ds. I think Nintendo is gonna give that mario game room to sell and sell and boost the 3ds before releasing the next big mario game.
Click to expand...

Again, that title is set for release this fiscal year, so anytime between now and end of next March. If Wii U releases in September with Mario, then the 3DS Mario game is released next March, that will be a span of 6 months (the same timespan between NSMB Wii and SMG 2).
 
DragonSworne said:
The launch alone will sustain itself. Save the 2D Mario for next season to drive sales.
Click to expand...

But you can argue 2D Mario never stops selling and drives sales across the life of the platform. It's ever green. And it's a strategy that worked for Nintendo for three generations - NES, SNES and N64.

I think they absolutely launch with NSMB Mii or Super Mario Utopia. The real factor in what Mario to use is when 2D Mario for 3DS launches. I'm not sure Iwata wants two 2D Mario Bros. games on the market at the same time.
 
BD1 said:
But you can argue 2D Mario never stops selling and drives sales across the life of the platform. It's ever green. And it's a strategy that worked for Nintendo for three generations - NES, SNES and N64.

I think they absolutely launch with NSMB Mii or Super Mario Utopia. The real factor in what Mario to use is when 2D Mario for 3DS launches. I'm not sure Iwata wants two 2D Mario Bros. games on the market at the same time.
Click to expand...

But did Wii launch with a 2D or 3D Mario?
And was it necessary?
 
radcliff said:
B should theoretically be possible for launch from EAD Tokyo 1 and would serve as a great showcase for the system. A is currently in development for 3DS, so a Wii U follow-up could be released a couple years later. Essentially, 3D Mario Wii U 2012 -> 2D Mario Wii U 2014.
Click to expand...

Not the first time I see someone in this thread seeming to forget about New Super Mario Bros Mii! It's actually one the three first party Wii U games we have confimation of (with Pikmin 3 and SSBU).
 
The 3DS botched launch proves that we need a Mario game ASAP and that giving the launch period to the "turd parties" (as I like to call them) is a bad idea, as they end up getting cold feet and cancelling / delaying their average games, instead of trying to support a fledgling console. (Gabriella's Ghostly Groove, I'm looking at you.)

No Mario - the 3DS didn't sell.
No Mario and price drop - the 3DS only sold slightly more.
Two Mario games - 3DS sells massively!
 
Jackano said:
Not the first time I see someone in this thread seeming to forget about New Super Mario Bros Mii! It's actually one the three first party Wii U games we have confimation of (with Pikmin 3 and SSBU).
Click to expand...


It was always called a demo, not a game. A quickly thrown together and pretty lazy (in terms of aesthetics) demo at that. In fact, it is not on Nintendo Power's list of games in development for Wii U (Pikmin and Smash Bros. are). Not that NP's list is authoritative, but if the demo was in fact a game (or there was some indication thereof), I'm sure it would be on the list.
 
Every game we saw for the Wii U at E3 last year was only tech demo, guys. Reggie said it himself, none of those were going to be real products.
 
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