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I thought battery life and the easy gamepak save stuff that DS has would help it. Clearly they have two smaller screens to worry about instead of giant one. I think both will be viable in the market, it's not a battle of who wins or loses, but who has the best ports of PS2 games.

 

[Tenguman]

Yeah, I love Mario64 and all.. but I was expecting much more from Nintendo in terms of original software that utilized the touchscreen. Hopefully soon..

IMO Yoshi's Island DS at launch would have sealed the deal for most people. Fun and challenging yet simple way to play.

As of now, the only interesting use of the touchscreen being demonstrated is for little "mini-games" like we see in mario64 and feel-the-magic. Fun yeah, but if that's the only the type of gaming we'll see in the DS a year from now...I'm trading this sucker in.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

If the PSP really takes off and GBA sales drop then the gameboy next will come sooner than later. There's still plenty of life left in the GBA.

This is something i fear. By going DS - they are cannibalising their market share - not good. People who bought DSs will NOT look fondly on their new defunct piece of plastic. THe DS really is a Double-Edged Sword. Nintendo has to slaughtered the PSP somehow or stay neck to neck. If not... PSP will dominate. The life cycle for DS has to be a minimum of 2-3 years because if not, The PSP and its rather solid tech (for handheld) will definitely still look fresh in 6-8 years.

Also.. in terms of RnD time + resources.. DS simply ate into GBnext. I don't like that.

And finally. GBNext will be... GC vs Ps2. I don't know where that's going to go. But I AM NOT BUYING SUPER MARIO SUNSHINE NEXT PORTABLE.

Between a rock and hardplace I say.

 

[Deg]

I do think DS release has/done fuck up public perception if the GBN comes. Who wants to adopt another handheld so soon?

No. Its very clear there are two seperate handhelds being supported. Its not like PS2 and PS1. DS wont be outselling GBASP at any point as a result.

 

[Celicar]

I do think DS release has/done fuck up public perception if the GBN comes. Who wants to adopt another handheld so soon?

Ask all the people who bought an SP when they already owned an original GBA. :lol

 

[seismologist]

No. Its very clear there are two seperate handhelds being supported..

Is it though? What has Nintendo announced for Gameboy lately? It seems like most of their bigest franchises have the sequel coming out on the DS.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I think the PSP will be a major force if Sony does everything right. I don't see the DS being a challenge to what Sony has become in the minds of children who wish to be cool... PSP is going to do very well maybe even near GBA levels. unless...

 

[XS+]

To the thread's title, "No." Touchscreen gimmickry won't compensate for the dated look of DS' games. Excepting 2D efforts, games on the DS will appear antiquated next to what the PSP has already shown itself capable of. With the ability to play music, movies, games, and operate as a communications device, the PSP's features will set it apart from the DS, making Nintendo's system look like a tired relic slapped together at a dizzying speed to meet Sony's challenge.

 

[Kobun Heat]

Just like the GB and GB Color, support will slow down and stop within, say, a year. Some GBA games might sneak out in 2006, but they'll be destined for the bargain bins.

 

[lolz im 2 bizEH to usE teh surch >X)D]

Thinking about the PSP's features, I can't help but be reminded of the GameGear/TurboExpress's TV reception plug-in

 

[Amir0x]

This just in: Grandmothers and mothers find the Nintendo DS style of control more "intuitive!" Old Hags flock to the stores to purchase one, but are distracted by the sale on isle nine for intricately woven wicker baskets!

 

[vitaflo]

I could see a Texas Hold 'Em network game being pretty huge...

Holy crap that's a great idea.

 

[Moegames]

Interesting article.

here

I think that Nintendo could definitely take advantage of the simplicity of touch technology to leverage its dominance in the portable game market. Of course they need to build easy-to-learn titles like parlor games and the network interface, but when that's done I think DS games will be much easier for a mass market audience to grasp than games on the PSP.

Networked casino games could draw in an mature casual audience with licenses from the right Vegas casinos, while the hardcore gamers stick to networked Metroid, Zelda, Crystal Chronicles, etc. Nintendo, bring on the DS network already.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Dilbert]

how many of these anecdotal non-gamers who are inevitably charmed by the touchscreen are actually going to go out and spend $180 on a ds and a game? relying on non-gamers to buy games seems like a pretty shaky proposition. which is probably why the ds is being marketed to postadolescent males even as nintendo's creative people and their fans talk about bringing in a new audience.

i don't know why the phantom non-gamer flashes into view every time someone wants to justify an unorthodox control scheme. it's really very strange.

Great post.

Besides, aren't all the "non-gamers" who want stylus-controlled games already playing them on their PDAs?

 

[imastalker co.]

if Nintendo really wants to seal the deal, all they have to do is have a web broswer, AIM, and broadband phone running on the DS by the march.

if you bother reading the patent for Pictochat, the program apparently can offer voice mail. seems like they have something like broadband phone in plans, or atleast giving other developers the ability to use it.

 

[Willco]

The only way PSP is dead is if both Animal Crossing and GoldenEye are online and in stores by the end of 2005. And it will never happened because Nintendo sucks at life.

 

[Amir0x]

if Nintendo really wants to seal the deal, all they have to do is have a web broswer, AIM, and broadband phone running on the DS by the march.

Chances of this scenario going down by March: 1 in 3,839,746,661,987,192

 

[imastalker co.]

Chances of this scenario going down by March: 1 in 3,839,746,661,987,192

right right, but chances are someone will totally bust out a web broswer by then.

Nintendo seems to have at the very least, a decent relationship with AOL, they should totally get AIM on the system. as for broadband phone, it's only a matter of time, but the sooner the better. free phone calls = Nintendo's monopoly continues guarenteed. keyword: guarenteed.

i think the browsers and AIM will got the job done on their own, but a portable $150 broadband phone would make the DS bigger than the GameBoy line ever was.

 

[Amir0x]

right right, but chances are someone will totally bust out a web broswer by then.

Hmmm... nah. No, won't happen by March. At best - and I do mean if God himself sent his angels to help Nintendo or some third party company - we'll see something like that early 2006.

Nintendo seems to have at the very least, a decent relationship with AOL, they should totally get AIM on the system. as for broadband phone, it's only a matter of time, but the sooner the better. free phone calls = Nintendo's monopoly continues guarenteed. keyword: guarenteed.

The problem with this is that if Nintendo does it, Sony is going to end up doing... and of course, Sony will end up doing it better. Nintendo doesn't want to leave itself open to criticism by focusing on technology that the PSP also has, and has in spades. It's all about the touch screen.

i think the browsers and AIM will got the job done on their own, but a portable $150 broadband phone would make the DS bigger than the GameBoy line ever was.

We shall see what goes down!

 

[imastalker co.]

Hmmm... nah. No, won't happen by March. At best - and I do mean if God himself sent his angels to help Nintendo or some third party company - we'll see something like that early 2006.

no way dude, 3rd party web browsers are already in development for the sytem. how long could it fuckin take to make one. i think there's a good chance we'll see one by march, if not by june at the latest.

The problem with this is that if Nintendo does it, Sony is going to end up doing... and of course, Sony will end up doing it better.

how do you figure? "because it's sony" ?

Nintendo doesn't want to leave itself open to criticism by focusing on technology that the PSP also has, and has in spades. It's all about the touch screen.

i don't ever see Nintendo making something like that for the DS. it's totally gonna be made by a 3rd party developer if anything.

in anycase, the DS has everything that is needed built into the hardware, something that can't be said about the PSP, although yeah, a mic is like $5, so whatever. but you get the point.

anyways, the touch screen let's the DS do all fuckin kinds of PC style software that PSP just won't be able to do, and well, if it can, it just won't have the same kind of easy to use funtionality that the DS version would have. i'd much rather browse the web, or use something like AIM with a touch screen, as opposed to a D-Pad. remember how painful it was to browse the web on Dreamcast? 2 screens will make all the difrerence too when browsing the web and all that good shit.

i think as far as PC style software goes, the DS is totally gonna be the better machine. it's only gonna be a matter of time before that kind of software starts hitting the systems with the built in wifi and all.

 

[kaching]

Browsing web sites that aren't formatted for a 256x192 screen won't be worth the time. Email, chat, RSS feeds, those could work well enough since DS app devs would have much more control in formatting UI for the small screens. But unless webmasters are going to build a bunch of DS friendly alternatives to their sites, a friendly web-browsing experience is really out of the hands of anyone designing a DS browser.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Touchscreens have been around longer than the joystick IMO. It hasn't caught on b/c it's a fucking gimmick. Can we accept this and move on? U-force, Powerpad, Powerglove, DDR gayness, etc.... You name it, you got a gimmick. There's a reason the best innovation has been the evolution of the digital pad into the analog pad (actually the first controllers were analog IIRC), and the digital button into a analog button. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I mean, wasn't Nintendo's brilliant GC controller button layout supposed to allow unique game experiences? Uh...I guess frustrating input sequences is unique...in some way. Seriously, I want a choice of a 4 or 6 button face with 4 shoulder buttons and two analogs setup like the DS, but tighter. How about Nintendo focus on creating an a good controller rather than a new, gimmicky one? The SNES milkbone was the last good controller they made. The N64 pad and its retarded C buttons wasn't embarassing enough, they had to high Fischer-Price (and a really stoned Miyamoto) to design possible the most retarded button layout known to man. Get it right for the Revolution, screw the touchscreen.

Want innovation? How about someone else make an assymetrical controller? The Mako64 is still easily the best controller ever conceived. Controls are laid out symmetically on the controller face, so why are the grips symmetrical? Impossible to find pics, but here's one:

Touch screens are lame. Asymmetrics are the new hotness. PEACE.

 

[imastalker co.]

from here on out, your opinions no longer have any value.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

Browsing web sites that aren't formatted for a 256x192 screen won't be worth the time. Email, chat, RSS feeds, those could work well enough since DS app devs would have much more control in formatting UI for the small screens. But unless webmasters are going to build a bunch of DS friendly alternatives to their sites, a friendly web-browsing experience is really out of the hands of anyone designing a DS browser.

you're wrong. Lots of people surf the net on their mobiles + Pda..etc. you can even type out messages to forums while you're in a cinema/queue..etc. You have to remember that DS is for young uns - teens so they won't have this exposure yet. This will change their world in parts.

Even if its just Messenger type service on DS.

 

[The Guivre]

I actually adressed a pertinent issue to this little discussion a few days ago on another DS thread that was derailed by some sort of Atari 2600 vs NES thing. Anyway, I'll just cut and paste.
-paste-
I just thought I'd mention that after about three weeks the Nintendo DS that is on display at the Target store I work at has been broken. Not physically like, in two or something like that. The touch screen died. It's not scratched up or anything like that it simply doesn't respond to touch anymore. While I know demo hardware is hardly treated well, it does sort of lead me to wonder how long it will take before DS units not subjected to demo type treatment to start having similar problems.

Talk to most people who have had a PDA for awhile and use it a lot. No matter how "scratch proof" a surface is, it'll eventually get worn down. Physical problems aside Nintendo, at least how I've seen it has sort of 'Innovated' themselves into a corner.

The GBA was hardly innovative, but it was incredibly successful. The GameCube, despite what most hardcore Nintendo supporters say hasn't been nearly as successful as the competitors. Tiny discs? what was the point? ohhh... right, I totally wanted a two disc resident evil game. DVD functionality? who needs that when the console can look like a lunch pail?

I won't say the DS is finished, or a failure, it's far too early for that, but it just seems like Nintendo is being different just for the sake of being different, and it seems like it's not serving them so well. A $99 GC is proof of that, I've never run out of GameCubes to offer or sell people, but PS2s and Xboxes just aren't staying on the shelves.

 

[Axsider]

Will DS touch technology be the key to beating the PSP?

Sure not!

 

[soundwave05]

I think personally Nintendo needs to get the DS down to $99 ASAP. They can milk the early adopters at $150, but the real audience for this thing is probably going to be a lot more casual (kids, young teens, girls, entry gamers, budget gamers, etc.), and thus it needs a lower price point.

 

[GDGF]

Accesibility of the touch screen is one of the reasons but
The key to DS beating the PSP will come down to a number of factors.

The main ones will be backwards compatibility and carry over of the popular
GBA franchises.

I was going to type my post, but it seems Gigadent was reading my mind.

(although, in time, I think it will be proven that the touch screen was a major factor in the DS outselling the PSP)

 

[missAran]

I've always said that DS has the capability to RAPE the PSP. But, I'm skeptical as to whether or not its power will be realized. All the pieces are there, developers just need to be as visionary as Nintendo.

 

[Amir0x]

I've always said that DS has the capability to RAPE the PSP. But, I'm skeptical as to whether or not its power will be realized. All the pieces are there, developers just need to be as visionary as Nintendo.

The DS has the capability to RAPE the PSP?

I think that statement is so broad and so all-encompassing that like other Nintendo fans I think you're ignoring many, many factors.

 

[Willco]

NINTENDO DS, NOW WITH 100% MORE RAPE!

 

[missAran]

"The DS has the capability of outselling the PSP tremendously" or rape. One of those.

 

[Amir0x]

"The DS has the capability of outselling the PSP tremendously" or rape. One of those.

That statement is based on nothing.

"The PSP has the capability of outselling the DS"

Now we're even or something!

You need a bit more than broad statements based on nothing other than blind fandom to be taken seriously. I suppose you assume that the DS touch screen is what gives it the capability to "rape" the PSP? Is that your viewpoint? What about all the countless other features the PSP has that the DS doesn't? Would it be fair to say that both have capabilities that can be utilized to... heh... rape the other?

If you agree, then it comes down to who is better at raping. And the answer to that question ever since the good ol' PSX has been Sony.

 

[Willco]

Nintendo is the catcher, Sony is the pitcher.

It's a story as old as time itself.

 

[thefit]

Touching is a fad and so is nintendo.

bunch of fads!

 

[puck1337]

Good article, but the DS dominating the PSP would be like apples dominating oranges.

Exactly. Because oranges dominate apples. Except for Jonagold apples. Oh and Fuji.

Tasty.

 

[Tea Master]

Good article, but the DS dominating the PSP would be like apples dominating oranges. They are too dissimilar to be competing for the same market.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[SantaC]

Touching is a fad and so is nintendo.

bunch of fads!

so were rumble pak and analog controls?

 

[missAran]

That statement is based on nothing.

"The PSP has the capability of outselling the DS"

Now we're even or something!

You need a bit more than broad statements based on nothing other than blind fandom to be taken seriously. I suppose you assume that the DS touch screen is what gives it the capability to "rape" the PSP? Is that your viewpoint? What about all the countless other features the PSP has that the DS doesn't? Would it be fair to say that both have capabilities that can be utilized to... heh... rape the other?

If you agree, then it comes down to who is better at raping. And the answer to that question ever since the good ol' PSX has been Sony.

MP3 players, movie playback, and whatever else Sony has tacked on to PSP is worthless to gameplay. The touch screen, the wireless LAN capability, and Bluetooth are all things that can make portably gaming much better. DS has the resources, dont' deny it.

 

[soundwave05]

I think the portable market will be split about 50/50 in about two years, but it will also expand tremdously with the PSP and DS bringing in older consumers.

Nintendo should just keep the regular GBA line going too. It's still red hot and kills both the PSP/DS in terms of price/battery life/compactness. Why not take that chipset and start integrating it into cell phones and even i-Pods and what not? It's better than just phasing it out.

 

[Amir0x]

MP3 players, movie playback, and whatever else Sony has tacked on to PSP is worthless to gameplay. The touch screen, the wireless LAN capability, and Bluetooth are all things that can make portably gaming much better. DS has the resources, dont' deny it.

Good job. You deserve a cookie!

However, it isn't worthless for selling systems. And since we were talking about one system raping the other, it's completely relevant. Tossing them aside as if they mean nothing just shows how out of touch with reality you are.

And guess what else the PSP has? Guess. It has wireless LAN capabilities! As for the touch screen, that's about as much of an advantage as having superior technological capabilities are. Each can do things the other can't. Obviously what the touch screen can do is a little more dramatically different than the PSP, but restrictions in technology can often lead to similar problems.

It's time to enter the year 2004! Please sign up for the daily yearbook on "what consumers actually give a fuck about." I'll be signing copies all week!

 

[mashoutposse]

I hope devs still do 2-d gaming. I'm playing Metroid Fusion on the DS; this game is a masterpiece IMO -- imagine it on a screen like the PSP's.

PSP's screen is going to be a big selling point.

 

[Amir0x]

I hope devs still do 2-d gaming. I'm playing Metroid Fusion on the DS; this game is a masterpiece IMO -- imagine it on a screen like the PSP's.

Vampire Chronicles? Ghargav Trilogy?

 

[mashoutposse]

PSX and Saturn started out with a decent number of 2D games at first because they were coming off of a 2D dominated market, just as the handheld market is today. Once it was clear that the big sellers were the blockbuster 3D games, 2D got left behind. I hope it doesn't happen here, too.

Metroid Fusion is CRISP.

 

[jiggle]

Vampire Chronicles? Ghargav Trilogy?

Ghargav is more 3D than 2D right?


Popolocrios will be all 2D. I'd imagine more will come. Hell, there's lots of beautiful 2D games on current home consoles like PS2. It's never gonna go away, I hope.

 

[Amir0x]

Metroid Fusion is CRISP.

Man, if you thought Metroid Fusion was crisp...

Ghargav is more 3D than 2D right?


Popolocrios will be all 2D. I'd imagine more will come. Hell, there's lots of beautiful 2D games on current home consoles like PS2. It's never gonna go away, I hope.

Ghargav is a fully 2D RPG I believe. Although, maybe the worldmap is 3D. I'm not clear on that.

Also, Lumines is "2D" right? I guess you'd classify that as a 2D game.

 

[jiggle]

Man, if you thought Metroid Fusion was crisp...



Ghargav is a fully 2D RPG I believe. Although, maybe the worldmap is 3D. I'm not clear on that.

Also, Lumines is "2D" right? I guess you'd classify that as a 2D game.

IIRC, the characters are sprites, but the world/town/battle maps are in 3D.

 

[Amir0x]

IIRC, the characters are sprites, but the world/town/battle maps are in 3D.

I know for a fact I've seen building interiors and such in Ghargev in full 2D.*

*Edit: Nevermind, you're right. I was thinking of another game.

 

[kaching]

you're wrong.

You're welcome to surf web sites with content/layout _preformatted_ for screens that start at 800x600 using handheld client apps that support only a portion of the embedded content types found on those sites. I own a PDA with Wifi, Bluetooth and a 320x480 display. I've fidgeted with extensive scrolling and zooming in and out on pages and I'm saying it's not worth the time to surf web pages preformatted for much larger displays.

What I am also saying though is that there's other ways to get content from "The Internet" that doesn't require compromised attempts to shoehorn it onto one or both of the DS screens. I'm saying it would be better to pursue these avenues rather than simply port a web browser onto the DS. I mentioned email and IM. I also suggested RSS feeds, Web Services or any XML content that's void of layout directives, leaving that to the DS client to best format for the DS screens. Basically take advantage of the flexible standards that are out there to better cater the content to the DS.

You have to remember that DS is for young uns - teens so they won't have this exposure yet.

What exposure? To the web on a desktop device? or to handheld devices like cellphones with access to Internet services? Either way, I think you're out of touch with what the young uns and teens have been exposed to. Besides, most of the Nintendo's DS marketing and PR seems targeted more at young adults - like the guy in your avatar - than those other two age groups.

 

[Mrbob]

I think the advent of quality sound on a portable with the 1.8gig storage space of the UMD will eventually become a huge selling point. I'm looking forward to some high quality music on PSP now I hope the developers can get those loading times improved.

The Dual Screens will be useful once developers get used to coding for the system. Like any console there are struggles in software when hardware is released. I'm sure we'll see some good wares exploiting the full potential down the road!

Actually, I think Nintendo's best way to compete is to go the simple route. By that I mean games like Blackjack, Poker, etc. Especially Poker. That would great with a touchscreen. With the poker craze hitting the nation Nintendo should captalize on this with a WIFI enabled poker game on the DS.