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[itsinmyveins]

Well, it's quite easy to argue that eating meat is morally wrong in general and that alone should be a reason enough.

Add various health benefits, the huge impact the meat industry has on the environment and all in all, it's clearly a "better" choice by such metrics.

 

[Opinionatedfish]

Yea bugs are a great source of nutrition, more so than meat yet I never see an argument made for that when people factor in nutrition while talking about the differences between vegetarian food and non vegetarian.

I think people think bugs are icky. But ants cook nicely. Grubs are like popcorn. Spiders are tasty cooked. 3D printed food will require bug meal. So, we need to collectively get over it.

Also, the people citing eating stuff that isn't poison... Many plants are poisonous but we eat or drink them. Coffee beans, cocoa leaves, apples, potatoes, and so forth.

Potatoes especially. They are a kind of night shade.

 

[Ventrue]

We have it way too good these days, try surviving in the jungle for like a few months and see if nature gives a shit about your morality. Top of the food chain and proud of it. If Lions could corral humans into pens and slaughter us for meat they would, you know why?

Personally, I try to hold myself to a higher moral standard than wild animals do. E.g. I don't rape and murder.

Also, lions might eat people, but they don't pack them into crowded, squalid prisons from birth, where they can barely move their bodies at all.

Survival. We had to eat meat long enough to develop agriculture, yes the meat-eaters of the world allowed you vegetarians to exist. And we don't need your thank you's.

Much of human development has happened off the back of slavery too. That doesn't mean it's laudable.

 

[Twiforce]

Man, this thread is disheartening. All the same non-logical arguments in favor of eating meat. "It's natural!" "They'd do it to us if they got the chance!" "Sentimental hippy bullshit!" "Top of the food chain rah rah!"

Look, it's simple utilitarian ethics. It's wrong to cause pain or to violate the desires of other beings without necessary cause. I would actually agree that, for most of human history, eating meat was *not* unethical. It was necessary for us to survive, and between the life of a cow and the life of a human, the human is more important because of their increased capacity for emotions and envisioning their own future. Likewise, If you're stranded on a desert island and your best odds at survival are to kill a wild boar- go for it.

But most people today are not in those situations. Eating meat is not necessary for most people in the Western world today. It doesn't matter if it's "natural" or we're omnivores or whatever evolution enabled us to do. It's bad when a creature with a desire to survive has it's life taken from it, and it's wrong to cause something like that without good cause. There is good cause to eat meat in times of survival, when it's either us or them. But it isn't us or them.

Even if we solve all the issues with factory farming and kill the animals as "humanely" as possible, it would still be wrong because ultimately, we are killing only for pleasure; to satiate our tastebuds. Animals like cows feel emotions, they form friendships and maternal bonds, they have an inherent instinct and desire to stay alive.

How can it be wrong to pointlessly kill a human but not an animal? It's not AS wrong, considering a humans stronger desire for life and conscious knowledge of what death is and to plan for their future...but it's still wrong on some level. It's crazy peopel are saying "factory farming is messed up, but I have no objections to killing my own meat!" Really? What need do you have to go kill some animal for no other reason because you enjoy how it tastes? You killing that animal did not save your life. It only brought you pleasure. Taking a life from something that wants to stay alive, only for pleasure- that's wrong.

 

[Mango The Magician]

We'll probably just start substituting it with Lab grown meat, as once that hits perfection it'd easily be the most economically sound option.

 

[dapperbandit]

Even if scientists could master the art of lab-grown meat, I'd still rather eat the bits of an animal that was violently killed.

 

[MacNille]

Never. I would never give up meat. I love it. I love the taste of a well made moose steak.

 

[Moff]

I love meat, and I eat it almost every day.

but the far future is meat free in our society, that I am sure off.

the only thing I wonder is if we wait until whe can artirficially create perfect, cheap meat or if people actually stop eating it because of moral reasons before that.

 

[kmax]

Animals have been eating each other ever since the beginning.

Why should we be the exception?

Edit: There are of course herbivores as there are omnivores and carnivores, but what can I say. It tastes good!

 

[Opinionatedfish]

*snipped sentimental over thinking of the ethics of pleasure from eating*

Many of us were born with a taste for meat. Stopping being Carnophobic.

That said, some of us enjoy diverse tastes. I think the next food trend will be Entomophagy.

I would suggest not judging the CEFVIQ community to harshly. (Carnivore Entomophage Fruitarian Vegan Inedia Questioning)

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Maybe, when they stop being delicious.

 

[KHlover]

Giving up meat? Never. Besides, plants are living beings too. So why stop there? In the future we should synthesize all the proteins, carbs and lipids we need from water, coal etc., that way no animal or plant would ever have to die for our pleasure again!!!!11!1!!!

Spoiler

I'd kill myself before experiencing a future like that

 

[itsinmyveins]

Man, this thread is disheartening. All the same non-logical arguments in favor of eating meat. "It's natural!" "They'd do it to us if they got the chance!" "Sentimental hippy bullshit!" "Top of the food chain rah rah!"

Look, it's simple utilitarian ethics. It's wrong to cause pain or to violate the desires of other beings without necessary cause. I would actually agree that, for most of human history, eating meat was *not* unethical. It was necessary for us to survive, and between the life of a cow and the life of a human, the human is more important because of their increased capacity for emotions and envisioning their own future. Likewise, If you're stranded on a desert island and your best odds at survival are to kill a wild boar- go for it.

But most people today are not in those situations. Eating meat is not necessary for most people in the Western world today. It doesn't matter if it's "natural" or we're omnivores or whatever evolution enabled us to do. It's bad when a creature with a desire to survive has it's life taken from it, and it's wrong to cause something like that without good cause. There is good cause to eat meat in times of survival, when it's either us or them. But it isn't us or them.

Even if we solve all the issues with factory farming and kill the animals as "humanely" as possible, it would still be wrong because ultimately, we are killing only for pleasure; to satiate our tastebuds. Animals like cows feel emotions, they form friendships and maternal bonds, they have an inherent instinct and desire to stay alive.

How can it be wrong to pointlessly kill a human but not an animal? It's not AS wrong, considering a humans stronger desire for life and conscious knowledge of what death is and to plan for their future...but it's still wrong on some level. It's crazy peopel are saying "factory farming is messed up, but I have no objections to killing my own meat!" Really? What need do you have to go kill some animal for no other reason because you enjoy how it tastes? You killing that animal did not save your life. It only brought you pleasure. Taking a life from something that wants to stay alive, only for pleasure- that's wrong.

Sums up the argument well. Pretty much a spot on explanation of my view on the matter.

 

[Twiforce]

Many of us were born with a taste for meat. Stopping being Carnophobic.

That said, some of us enjoy diverse tastes. I think the next food trend will be Entomophagy.

I would suggest not judging the CEFVIQ community to harshly. (Carnivore Entomophage Fruitarian Vegan Inedia Questioning)

You could, you know, actually address my points instead of being a smart ass.

If your argument against my position is basically buzzwords like "sentimental" and "over-thinking", and some made up strawman of a Tumblr-esque social movement that doesn't exist...then it isn't a very strong one.

 

[Opinionatedfish]

Sums up the argument well. Pretty much a spot on explanation of my view on the matter.

I do have to wonder WHY people consider Cannibalism to be wrong. What if a person wants to be eaten? (Not being completely sarcastic.)

 

[robinsxe]

I don't think that it'll ever happen, or that it ever should. I don't think there's anything wrong with eating animals, though I would prefer them to be raised and slaughtered as humanely as possible.

ahhaha

 

[PrimaNocta]

You will have to pry the steak from my cold dead hands before I stop eating meat. It's just to damn good.

 

[Denzar]

Man, this thread is disheartening. All the same non-logical arguments in favor of eating meat. "It's natural!" "They'd do it to us if they got the chance!" "Sentimental hippy bullshit!" "Top of the food chain rah rah!"

Look, it's simple utilitarian ethics. It's wrong to cause pain or to violate the desires of other beings without necessary cause. I would actually agree that, for most of human history, eating meat was *not* unethical. It was necessary for us to survive, and between the life of a cow and the life of a human, the human is more important because of their increased capacity for emotions and envisioning their own future. Likewise, If you're stranded on a desert island and your best odds at survival are to kill a wild boar- go for it.

But most people today are not in those situations. Eating meat is not necessary for most people in the Western world today. It doesn't matter if it's "natural" or we're omnivores or whatever evolution enabled us to do. It's bad when a creature with a desire to survive has it's life taken from it, and it's wrong to cause something like that without good cause. There is good cause to eat meat in times of survival, when it's either us or them. But it isn't us or them.

Even if we solve all the issues with factory farming and kill the animals as "humanely" as possible, it would still be wrong because ultimately, we are killing only for pleasure; to satiate our tastebuds. Animals like cows feel emotions, they form friendships and maternal bonds, they have an inherent instinct and desire to stay alive.

How can it be wrong to pointlessly kill a human but not an animal? It's not AS wrong, considering a humans stronger desire for life and conscious knowledge of what death is and to plan for their future...but it's still wrong on some level. It's crazy peopel are saying "factory farming is messed up, but I have no objections to killing my own meat!" Really? What need do you have to go kill some animal for no other reason because you enjoy how it tastes? You killing that animal did not save your life. It only brought you pleasure. Taking a life from something that wants to stay alive, only for pleasure- that's wrong.

I won't even begin to start a discussion in this thread (have enough of those in real life already) but I just want to say that this a post I greatly appreciate and agree with.

 

[lefantome]

To have a balanced diet we should eat lots of different vegetables.

Vegetables have to be produce with in extensive cultivations, which in a way or another kill huge amounts of animals.

The best solution is to eat meat when we need it.

 

[Opinionatedfish]

You could, you know, actually address my points instead of being a smart ass.

If your argument against my position is basically buzzwords like "sentimental" and "over-thinking", and some made up strawman of a Tumblr-esque social movement that doesn't exist...then it isn't a very strong one.

I think your points are good and they explain your position well. I didn't want to quote the whole thing for space so I snipped it down to what it generally is: a long and sentimental expression of your own moral reasoning. Then I put a spin on it for the sake of sarcasm. There is a smiley emoticon there for a reason.

 

[G.O.O.]

I probably never will. I have allergies and need meat for my diet to be healthy. Or pills, but fuck pills, seriously.

 

[Blastoise]

Only if America adopts the metric system.

 

[Opinionatedfish]

Only if America adopts the metric system.

I waited seven pages for this. Bravo!

 

[Twiforce]

I do have to wonder WHY people consider Cannibalism to be wrong. What if a person wants to be eaten? (Not being completely sarcastic.)

Because cannibalism is icky, and humans have an instinctual desire to be against things that disgust them. It's the same reason things like consensual incest between adults riles people up.

But I find the topic of the ethics of cannibalism to be an interesting discussion. I'd argue that in most cases it's wrong, because you have to kill someone to do it. But of course, your are saying what if someone gives consent?

I'm not sure where I'd stand on that. I would argue that anyone who consents to being killed and eaten is mentally ill. They're not in their right mind, so, I think we have a responsibility to help them, because if I were in a state of mind where I wanted to be killed, I'd want someone to do the same for me- the golden rule. It's the same reason we should help someone who is depressed and not let them commit suicide.

Thus, I'd say it's not true consent. If you kill someone and eat them when they "consent", you are taking advantage of their vulnerable mental state.

But I'm not a psychologist; maybe somebody CAN give true consent. i doubt it, but it's an interesting what-if. I honestly don't know how we would legally handle that if it were the case.

However. If somebody consents to have their body eaten after they have already died of unrelated causes, I can't find any ethical objection to that. Similarly, I don't think it's wrong to eat parts of a human that were grown in a lab.

It would disgust people, but disgust and morality are not the same thing, though many people can't seem to understand that.

(Weren't expecting a serious answer, huh? =P)

 

[MisterGrey3000]

I just don't subscribe to the idea that eating an abundant man-made animal that was bred to be eaten is an immoral thing to do.
Domestic animals definitely feel pain and they often form very complex relationships with the things around them, but I just can't feel bad for eating them. I really only care about their journey in life, not their destination. That's why I feel horrible when I see the way that they're treated at certain farms.

 

[hodgy100]

why should we give up eating meat. As a race we do lots of things we don't need to do to survive just because we like it.

 

[Twiforce]

I think your points are good and they explain your position well. I didn't want to quote the whole thing for space so I snipped it down to what it generally is: a long and sentimental expression of your own moral reasoning. Then I put a spin on it for the sake of sarcasm. There is a smiley emoticon there for a reason.

Oh, okay. I didn't realize you were being sarcastic. Damn you, Internet sarcasm detector! Sorry I got a little defensive then.

 

[V_Arnold]

I just don't subscribe to the idea that eating an abundant man-made animal that was bred to be eaten is an immoral thing to do.
Domestic animals definitely feel pain and they often form very complex relationships with the things around them, but I just can't feel bad for eating them. I really only care about their journey in life, not their destination. That's why I feel horrible when I see the way that they're treated at certain farms.

So you are against meat "factories", but would have no issue killing an animal that had a good life in a homegrown environment. I am a vegetarian, and I have no issues with such stance. (Even if I would still prefer to NOT eat meat, even when made such way.)

Man, this thread is disheartening. All the same non-logical arguments in favor of eating meat. "It's natural!" "They'd do it to us if they got the chance!" "Sentimental hippy bullshit!" "Top of the food chain rah rah!"

Look, it's simple utilitarian ethics. It's wrong to cause pain or to violate the desires of other beings without necessary cause. I would actually agree that, for most of human history, eating meat was *not* unethical. It was necessary for us to survive, and between the life of a cow and the life of a human, the human is more important because of their increased capacity for emotions and envisioning their own future. Likewise, If you're stranded on a desert island and your best odds at survival are to kill a wild boar- go for it.

But most people today are not in those situations. Eating meat is not necessary for most people in the Western world today. It doesn't matter if it's "natural" or we're omnivores or whatever evolution enabled us to do. It's bad when a creature with a desire to survive has it's life taken from it, and it's wrong to cause something like that without good cause. There is good cause to eat meat in times of survival, when it's either us or them. But it isn't us or them.

Even if we solve all the issues with factory farming and kill the animals as "humanely" as possible, it would still be wrong because ultimately, we are killing only for pleasure; to satiate our tastebuds. Animals like cows feel emotions, they form friendships and maternal bonds, they have an inherent instinct and desire to stay alive.

How can it be wrong to pointlessly kill a human but not an animal? It's not AS wrong, considering a humans stronger desire for life and conscious knowledge of what death is and to plan for their future...but it's still wrong on some level. It's crazy peopel are saying "factory farming is messed up, but I have no objections to killing my own meat!" Really? What need do you have to go kill some animal for no other reason because you enjoy how it tastes? You killing that animal did not save your life. It only brought you pleasure. Taking a life from something that wants to stay alive, only for pleasure- that's wrong.

This is a very solid argument, it is too bad that there is suce a huge social stigma attached to not eating meat that I stopped arguing about such matters when in real life, even if I am the one being attacked for forsaking the "stuff that our ancestors did, and your teeth were built for!!!!". But, sadly, the way we treat animals is not much worse than the way we treat each other. Look at how easy it is to pit the population against minorities, immigrants, or even their own neighbors.

 

[Sarobi]

I don't know about the rest of humanity, but I will continue eating meat for as long as I possibly can. Also OP's picture needs to be put back on the grill.

 

[Fix The Scientist]

Man, this thread is disheartening. All the same non-logical arguments in favor of eating meat. "It's natural!" "They'd do it to us if they got the chance!" "Sentimental hippy bullshit!" "Top of the food chain rah rah!"

Look, it's simple utilitarian ethics. It's wrong to cause pain or to violate the desires of other beings without necessary cause. I would actually agree that, for most of human history, eating meat was *not* unethical. It was necessary for us to survive, and between the life of a cow and the life of a human, the human is more important because of their increased capacity for emotions and envisioning their own future. Likewise, If you're stranded on a desert island and your best odds at survival are to kill a wild boar- go for it.

But most people today are not in those situations. Eating meat is not necessary for most people in the Western world today. It doesn't matter if it's "natural" or we're omnivores or whatever evolution enabled us to do. It's bad when a creature with a desire to survive has it's life taken from it, and it's wrong to cause something like that without good cause. There is good cause to eat meat in times of survival, when it's either us or them. But it isn't us or them.

Even if we solve all the issues with factory farming and kill the animals as "humanely" as possible, it would still be wrong because ultimately, we are killing only for pleasure; to satiate our tastebuds. Animals like cows feel emotions, they form friendships and maternal bonds, they have an inherent instinct and desire to stay alive.

How can it be wrong to pointlessly kill a human but not an animal? It's not AS wrong, considering a humans stronger desire for life and conscious knowledge of what death is and to plan for their future...but it's still wrong on some level. It's crazy peopel are saying "factory farming is messed up, but I have no objections to killing my own meat!" Really? What need do you have to go kill some animal for no other reason because you enjoy how it tastes? You killing that animal did not save your life. It only brought you pleasure. Taking a life from something that wants to stay alive, only for pleasure- that's wrong.

Couldn't agree more. Very well put.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Man, this thread is disheartening. All the same non-logical arguments in favor of eating meat. "It's natural!" "They'd do it to us if they got the chance!" "Sentimental hippy bullshit!" "Top of the food chain rah rah!"

Look, it's simple utilitarian ethics. It's wrong to cause pain or to violate the desires of other beings without necessary cause. I would actually agree that, for most of human history, eating meat was *not* unethical. It was necessary for us to survive, and between the life of a cow and the life of a human, the human is more important because of their increased capacity for emotions and envisioning their own future. Likewise, If you're stranded on a desert island and your best odds at survival are to kill a wild boar- go for it.

But most people today are not in those situations. Eating meat is not necessary for most people in the Western world today. It doesn't matter if it's "natural" or we're omnivores or whatever evolution enabled us to do. It's bad when a creature with a desire to survive has it's life taken from it, and it's wrong to cause something like that without good cause. There is good cause to eat meat in times of survival, when it's either us or them. But it isn't us or them.

Even if we solve all the issues with factory farming and kill the animals as "humanely" as possible, it would still be wrong because ultimately, we are killing only for pleasure; to satiate our tastebuds. Animals like cows feel emotions, they form friendships and maternal bonds, they have an inherent instinct and desire to stay alive.

How can it be wrong to pointlessly kill a human but not an animal? It's not AS wrong, considering a humans stronger desire for life and conscious knowledge of what death is and to plan for their future...but it's still wrong on some level. It's crazy peopel are saying "factory farming is messed up, but I have no objections to killing my own meat!" Really? What need do you have to go kill some animal for no other reason because you enjoy how it tastes? You killing that animal did not save your life. It only brought you pleasure. Taking a life from something that wants to stay alive, only for pleasure- that's wrong.

This guy gets it.

 

[Opinionatedfish]

Oh, okay. I didn't realize you were being sarcastic. Damn you, Internet sarcasm detector! Sorry I got a little defensive then.

It's okay. Also, great dissertation on the ethics of cannibalism. On a lighter note, people should embrace Entomophagy. It's a good idea. As for Inedia practices... I don't consider that viable.

 

[Austriacus]

I dont live my life in such a way that i just need to survive. I eat different meats, vegetables etc and add them spices to change the flavor cause i enjoy it.

I want more out of life than just being able to survive the day. That mentality sounds so boring.

 

[Hydrargyrus]

Why?


Why??

 

[V_Arnold]

I dont live my life in such a way that i just need to survive. I eat different meats, vegetables etc and add them spices to change the flavor cause i enjoy it.

I want more out of life than just being able to survive the day. That mentality sounds so boring.

You really should introspect a little about whether you truly need meat for such practice or not. I do not consider my meals the most interesting part of my life, but that does not mean that I live a boring life. And I can eat the same type of meal for weeks without not getting bored. If you are the "getting bored fast" type, look up vegetarian/vegan indian food. You will never run out of new recipes to try. And still no meat eaten.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

So you are against meat "factories", but would have no issue killing an animal that had a good life in a homegrown environment. I am a vegetarian, and I have no issues with such stance. (Even if I would still prefer to NOT eat meat, even when made such way.)

Pretty much.
We have the means to give domestic animals long, healthy, and beautiful lives. It makes no sense to me that some people in the factory farming industry are allowed to get away with completely mistreating them before they die.

 

[Cagey]

You really should introspect a little about whether you truly need meat for such practice or not. I do not consider my meals the most interesting part of my life, but that does not mean that I live a boring life. And I can eat the same type of meal for weeks without not getting bored. If you are the "getting bored fast" type, look up vegetarian/vegan indian food. You will never run out of new recipes to try. And still no meat eaten.

I most certainly do, and "well think really hard and search yourself" doesn't change that.

I enjoy life. I enjoy eating. Of all the kinds off eating, I enjoy meat most of all. I read some declare that that's wrong, which I disagree with, to be polite.

 

[eot]

It's crazy peopel are saying "factory farming is messed up, but I have no objections to killing my own meat!" Really? What need do you have to go kill some animal for no other reason because you enjoy how it tastes? You killing that animal did not save your life. It only brought you pleasure. Taking a life from something that wants to stay alive, only for pleasure- that's wrong.

Both are selfish, but do you really find it strange that some people differentiate between supporting a food industry that throws live animals into meat grinders, and farmers who let their animals roam, don't employ animal transports etc.? One is more upsetting than the other, so of course people will find it easier to avoid.

 

[lemonade]

Meat will always be with us. It sustains a healthy diet and has many great nutritional values. No point unless we want to start saving the animals. And for what, common decency... Sure, if that's your agenda.

 

[Soodanim]

What would happen to all of the forms?

 

[Opinionatedfish]

What would happen to all of the forms?

All domesticated animals would be released into the wild. This could cause all sorts of disruption and generational damage to existing predators habits. Resulting in extinctions.

 

[Ragav]

Man, this thread is disheartening. All the same non-logical arguments in favor of eating meat. "It's natural!" "They'd do it to us if they got the chance!" "Sentimental hippy bullshit!" "Top of the food chain rah rah!"

Look, it's simple utilitarian ethics. It's wrong to cause pain or to violate the desires of other beings without necessary cause. I would actually agree that, for most of human history, eating meat was *not* unethical. It was necessary for us to survive, and between the life of a cow and the life of a human, the human is more important because of their increased capacity for emotions and envisioning their own future. Likewise, If you're stranded on a desert island and your best odds at survival are to kill a wild boar- go for it.

But most people today are not in those situations. Eating meat is not necessary for most people in the Western world today. It doesn't matter if it's "natural" or we're omnivores or whatever evolution enabled us to do. It's bad when a creature with a desire to survive has it's life taken from it, and it's wrong to cause something like that without good cause. There is good cause to eat meat in times of survival, when it's either us or them. But it isn't us or them.

Even if we solve all the issues with factory farming and kill the animals as "humanely" as possible, it would still be wrong because ultimately, we are killing only for pleasure; to satiate our tastebuds. Animals like cows feel emotions, they form friendships and maternal bonds, they have an inherent instinct and desire to stay alive.

How can it be wrong to pointlessly kill a human but not an animal? It's not AS wrong, considering a humans stronger desire for life and conscious knowledge of what death is and to plan for their future...but it's still wrong on some level. It's crazy peopel are saying "factory farming is messed up, but I have no objections to killing my own meat!" Really? What need do you have to go kill some animal for no other reason because you enjoy how it tastes? You killing that animal did not save your life. It only brought you pleasure. Taking a life from something that wants to stay alive, only for pleasure- that's wrong.

Hard to disagree but its even harder to resist chicken 65.

 

[Twiforce]

Both are selfish, but do you really find it strange that some people differentiate between supporting a food industry that throws live animals into meat grinders, and farmers who let their animals roam, don't employ animal transports etc.? One is more upsetting than the other, so of course people will find it easier to avoid.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you. Of course hunting and farming the way you described is far more humane and less abhorrent than factory farming. It's just that lot of people are saying it's OK to kill things as long we treat them humanely. It's better that they're treated nicely, but you're still ultimately killing.

 

[UnblessedSoul]

If you don't have meat in your diet, your doing it wrong.

 

[Iztli]

Man, this thread is disheartening. All the same non-logical arguments in favor of eating meat. "It's natural!" "They'd do it to us if they got the chance!" "Sentimental hippy bullshit!" "Top of the food chain rah rah!"

Look, it's simple utilitarian ethics. It's wrong to cause pain or to violate the desires of other beings without necessary cause. I would actually agree that, for most of human history, eating meat was *not* unethical. It was necessary for us to survive, and between the life of a cow and the life of a human, the human is more important because of their increased capacity for emotions and envisioning their own future. Likewise, If you're stranded on a desert island and your best odds at survival are to kill a wild boar- go for it.

But most people today are not in those situations. Eating meat is not necessary for most people in the Western world today. It doesn't matter if it's "natural" or we're omnivores or whatever evolution enabled us to do. It's bad when a creature with a desire to survive has it's life taken from it, and it's wrong to cause something like that without good cause. There is good cause to eat meat in times of survival, when it's either us or them. But it isn't us or them.

Even if we solve all the issues with factory farming and kill the animals as "humanely" as possible, it would still be wrong because ultimately, we are killing only for pleasure; to satiate our tastebuds. Animals like cows feel emotions, they form friendships and maternal bonds, they have an inherent instinct and desire to stay alive.

How can it be wrong to pointlessly kill a human but not an animal? It's not AS wrong, considering a humans stronger desire for life and conscious knowledge of what death is and to plan for their future...but it's still wrong on some level. It's crazy peopel are saying "factory farming is messed up, but I have no objections to killing my own meat!" Really? What need do you have to go kill some animal for no other reason because you enjoy how it tastes? You killing that animal did not save your life. It only brought you pleasure. Taking a life from something that wants to stay alive, only for pleasure- that's wrong.

What a beautiful post.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Hippos, gorillas and orangutans have sharp teeth too.

Gorillas and orangutans have their eyes in the same position as us as well.

Yet none of these go and wrangle a cow and take them down to eat. Actually that's wrong - hippos do kill other animals from time to time but they won't eat them.

Also this:

You mentioned two primates that are vegamatarians, but don't mention Chimps regularly eat meat.

 

[Zaptruder]

Man, this thread is disheartening. All the same non-logical arguments in favor of eating meat. "It's natural!" "They'd do it to us if they got the chance!" "Sentimental hippy bullshit!" "Top of the food chain rah rah!"

Look, it's simple utilitarian ethics. It's wrong to cause pain or to violate the desires of other beings without necessary cause. I would actually agree that, for most of human history, eating meat was *not* unethical. It was necessary for us to survive, and between the life of a cow and the life of a human, the human is more important because of their increased capacity for emotions and envisioning their own future. Likewise, If you're stranded on a desert island and your best odds at survival are to kill a wild boar- go for it.

But most people today are not in those situations. Eating meat is not necessary for most people in the Western world today. It doesn't matter if it's "natural" or we're omnivores or whatever evolution enabled us to do. It's bad when a creature with a desire to survive has it's life taken from it, and it's wrong to cause something like that without good cause. There is good cause to eat meat in times of survival, when it's either us or them. But it isn't us or them.

Even if we solve all the issues with factory farming and kill the animals as "humanely" as possible, it would still be wrong because ultimately, we are killing only for pleasure; to satiate our tastebuds. Animals like cows feel emotions, they form friendships and maternal bonds, they have an inherent instinct and desire to stay alive.

How can it be wrong to pointlessly kill a human but not an animal? It's not AS wrong, considering a humans stronger desire for life and conscious knowledge of what death is and to plan for their future...but it's still wrong on some level. It's crazy peopel are saying "factory farming is messed up, but I have no objections to killing my own meat!" Really? What need do you have to go kill some animal for no other reason because you enjoy how it tastes? You killing that animal did not save your life. It only brought you pleasure. Taking a life from something that wants to stay alive, only for pleasure- that's wrong.

Well articulated. And yet despite agreeing with these points, I won't even try to stop eating meat. Hypocrisy? Psychopathy? Delicious.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Hard to disagree but its even harder to resist chicken 65.

Lolz as they say.

But true, everything that person said is true, I myself have reached a junction when I am pondering the ethics of eating meat... I find it difficult to maintain a meat free diet, I can for a week or so, but then I find myself hungery all the time. My missus is happy to be a vegamatarian, and she just crunches on cheese, but I am not big on eating something so bad for me every day. I have found a happy medium and am moving towards only eating animals that are born in eggs... No mammals is the goal. So far sheep are eliminated. pigs are pretty much out, I will miss ribs and pulled, but pork chops and bacon... meh... Cows... cows are burgers... this is the hard one. But I have like maybe 5 burgers a year as it is anyway.

 

[IN&OUT]

Actually people are moving toward cannibalism, it happened on a grand scale on Tuesday on WC semi-final.

Spoiler

jk

 

[J4g3r]

I'm a chef so you can guess where I stand on this debate.

MEAT. GLORIOUS MEAT!

Also, the thought of lab-grown meat to me makes my stomach turn...

I doubt they could ever replicate what I am able to work with my suppliers to get.