Megafoo Chavez
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Will the USA eventually "fall"?
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Britain is a bad comparision because the British Empire was spread out across the world. The United States is all together for the most part.
Second, the idea of the US collapsing because of size like the Roman Empire is also bad, because communcation and transportation these days is so fast. You can get from LA to NY in less time than people in Roman times could travel across Italy.
The US will most likely "fall" when the world begins to unify under world government. I'd expect this to happen within a couple hundred years.
Second, the idea of the US collapsing because of size like the Roman Empire is also bad, because communcation and transportation these days is so fast. You can get from LA to NY in less time than people in Roman times could travel across Italy.
The US will most likely "fall" when the world begins to unify under world government. I'd expect this to happen within a couple hundred years.
Fresh Prince
Banned
Not withstanding a Nuclear/Military Strike I doubt that the US will 'fall'. What I see more likely to happen is that China and the EU both gain power to join the US as a super power. Hence the US's influence will be diminshed. Possibly other continents would try to form 'unions' like Europe to be more significant in the world marketplace.
Right now the US is just too big a economical power too 'fall'- if it 'falls' we're all screwed.
Right now the US is just too big a economical power too 'fall'- if it 'falls' we're all screwed.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Yeah, if the USA falls I have a feeling it will either be due to wasting our resources or global climate change, dragging the rest of the world along with it.lachesis said:
For those not in the know, Peak Oil refers to the fact that the oil supply, as with many things, could be measured as a bell curve. Once we pass the peak (which some think has already happened), it doesn't matter that there's still half of the oil left. That half will of course be the harder to get half, while demand continues to increase, causing much higher prices. Yada yada yada, end of civilization as we know it, since that doesn't leave much time for adjustment to other energy sources.Hournda said:
I've always wanted to use the ungodly power of science to give myself gills and photosynthetic skin.mashoutposse said:
ralphwiggum
Member
America will fall into nothingness.
Australia will inherit the earth and spread our lazy, alcohol drinking ways until the world is at peace and laid back.
Then our prime minister will put a tax on everything, and fuck the world over.
It is inevitable.
Australia will inherit the earth and spread our lazy, alcohol drinking ways until the world is at peace and laid back.
Then our prime minister will put a tax on everything, and fuck the world over.
It is inevitable.
B-B-Bomba!
Member
Depends what you think the US is.
I see it more as the current chairman of an ongoing monocultural snowball, which has been rolling round the world, picking up bits and pieces and redistributing them since forever. That, as a concept, I don't think will fall.
The game might well move out of town, however, and soon ... ?
I see it more as the current chairman of an ongoing monocultural snowball, which has been rolling round the world, picking up bits and pieces and redistributing them since forever. That, as a concept, I don't think will fall.
The game might well move out of town, however, and soon ... ?
Che said:
Communism doesn't work
I think the USSR, China and North Korea have all been pretty good examples of why something that sounds good, initially anyway, on paper... will suck the big one, if you don't take a practical and detailed look at the people and the reaction that they'll have.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
JoshuaJSlone said:I've always wanted to use the ungodly power of science to give myself gills and photosynthetic skin.
You too?!?!? *embraces Joshua like a long lost brother*
Zaptruder said:Communism doesn't work
I agree that Communism is a utopian concept, as is pure Capitalistic society for that matter. But to say it doesn't work because it's been tried and failed is, I think, a bit off. At this point, no country has gotten past the dictatorship stage of it. It's actually supposed to end up a good deal more democratic than it ever has in practice.
Yes. But a system that is supposed to get past that dictatorship stage... without accounting for the fact that people have a tendency to be greedy dumb bastards, accounting for the fact that what's more likely to happen then an overthrowing of burgeious is that the power becomes corrupted and held onto.
Moreover, it's a system that fails to take into the natural variability of talents in the people the differing level of merits of people's efforts and the merits of their actions.
The best system obviously lies somewhere inbetween the two extremes. A good social support, but at the same time rewarding the effort and entrepreneurship of individuals.
But most of the world is moving towards such a system anyway (although some are going too far right); the difference then would be in the organization of government. Not been familiar with the communist manifesto, I wouldn't know how they organize the government in the 'end game'... but all the applicable examples have been stalled at dictatorship.
On the otherhand, the Meritocracy is probably the most refined form of capitalism. Or rather, capitalism is but a haphazard meritocracy. Largely bypassing chance and error and what not, and assessing directly merit, the idea is to bypass the common person in terms of accountability; the person that doesn't have the time, patience, willpower or knowledge to keep abreast of political machinations, tho they may affect him dearly, and put it in the hands of people who's job is to think for the long term stability and prosperity of a country while balancing those needs with the short term stability.
Moreover, it's a system that fails to take into the natural variability of talents in the people the differing level of merits of people's efforts and the merits of their actions.
The best system obviously lies somewhere inbetween the two extremes. A good social support, but at the same time rewarding the effort and entrepreneurship of individuals.
But most of the world is moving towards such a system anyway (although some are going too far right); the difference then would be in the organization of government. Not been familiar with the communist manifesto, I wouldn't know how they organize the government in the 'end game'... but all the applicable examples have been stalled at dictatorship.
On the otherhand, the Meritocracy is probably the most refined form of capitalism. Or rather, capitalism is but a haphazard meritocracy. Largely bypassing chance and error and what not, and assessing directly merit, the idea is to bypass the common person in terms of accountability; the person that doesn't have the time, patience, willpower or knowledge to keep abreast of political machinations, tho they may affect him dearly, and put it in the hands of people who's job is to think for the long term stability and prosperity of a country while balancing those needs with the short term stability.
elitehebrew
Member
All i know is if some dumb war happens on our soil here...i say fuck you all i'm on a raft out to a tropical island where i can rule on my own.
Phoenix
Member
Zaptruder said:
In a day and age when people are bitching about the electoral college despite the fact that they probably don't know what the hell their state representatives have done in the past term, you think people are going to fall for a meritocracy? Don't you have to go through 4 turns of Anarcy in CivIII before you can change governments?
As with all things in western society (and probably most all others) it all comes down to economy. Economy will dictate who rises and falls and economy will dictate the type of government. I'm not taking about the invisible hand or quotas but economy in the general sense, it seems like human nature to move from simple to complex and when things get too complex we find a new way. Ultimately I think the US will fall when a new economic system comes out that values natural resources (fuels, metals, soil) not as a means but as an end in themselves.
CrimsonSkies
Member
I don't really see what's going to hold the country together 100 years from now. There's a lot of hate in our society that seems to be getting worse year to year.
Zap: like I said, I agree on general principle, but it's worth noting that the communist revolutions basically did not 'follow' the plan laid out. And it wasn't really meant as a blueprint either. More like a prediction.
That Marx was wrong about the methods does not mean he was wrong about the goals. And his instigation was probably crucial in bringing about many of the reforms that have happened in the last hundred or so years.
That Marx was wrong about the methods does not mean he was wrong about the goals. And his instigation was probably crucial in bringing about many of the reforms that have happened in the last hundred or so years.
I find it hilarious how America as a country has their global image so radically changed simply depending on who our president is. With Bush, a staunch conservative who basically says F the world, I'm out to get my juice. With Clinton much of the world loved us and how we were supposedly helping to support international trade, etc..
If Kerry wins, we'll quickly see a cycle back towards Europe and the U.S. being on good terms, and therefore most of the media will act like nothing's wrong, even though politics over the entire world is a front to screw over whomever the people in power feel like screwing over.
If Kerry wins, we'll quickly see a cycle back towards Europe and the U.S. being on good terms, and therefore most of the media will act like nothing's wrong, even though politics over the entire world is a front to screw over whomever the people in power feel like screwing over.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
mashoutposse said:
I was just about to say the same thing. A lot of rape happens within chaos. I don't want to be on the recieving end.
DSN2K said:
Barring major accident or illness on your part, you will see it. Rising demand already outstrips limited supplies. I think I heard at current rates, worldwide oil reserves will be depleted in 50-60 years. But prices are likely to rise gradually, rather than half of a century of cheap oil until supplies are depleted all of a sudden.
I believe they already have substitutes to oil for making plastics and fabrics, it is just not economically viable with current oil prices. It's trickier for vehicules as fuel cells and hydrogen-powered cars don't seem to be ready yet.
I'm still not sure what jet planes or tanks are supposed to run on though.
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen
Banned
The other posters are correct. The US economy and infrastructure is more heavily dependent on cheap oil than that of most other developed nations, so the oil crunch will take us down a couple notches.
Eventually, every country in the world will get tired of us and conspire together to invade us... while we're not looking! We'll be on the brink of defeat, and then someone will pop "Born in the USA" into the stereo, and we'll start kicking ass (after a prolonged scene of sappy self rediscovery). It's because we have crap like that that we'll be around forever. We're just too damn cocky. No more oil? "Boooorn... in the USA, I was..." And we find a new way. Economy in the shitter? "Booorn... in the USA!" Thank you, Billy Joel.
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