Damon Bennet
Member
And damn is he angry
Windows 8 Release Preview
- Thread starter celebi23
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Maybe he is actually Gabe or Notch. Ugh, those Win8 gaming threads are painful.
I have just been messing around with W8 in a VM and while Metro is not actively trying to murder me, I question it's existence and purpose. As a warning, I should say that I don't consider my computer to be a tablet, nor do I think that the control scheme on touch devices will work on the traditional desktop platform. I do not care about the "business" of an unified OS, or what it signifies to Microsoft. I care about a well thought out OS. One that fulfills any needs I have.
So, this brings me to my first point. Why are Metro apps full screen? Isn't the beauty of a desktop the freedom in which you can manipulate windows, tailoring your screen so that it presents the information you need? The fact that an application serving a single purpose takes up my entire screen is baffling. Why should a messaging app take my entire screen? Why can't directly send an .exe to the desktop to create a shortcut? I need to open the file location and manually send it...
Anyway, just my first impression. I fail to see one thing that Metro is doing better for now. I'll try making it my primary OS for a few days on a laptop. The VM experience is not that great.
So, this brings me to my first point. Why are Metro apps full screen? Isn't the beauty of a desktop the freedom in which you can manipulate windows, tailoring your screen so that it presents the information you need? The fact that an application serving a single purpose takes up my entire screen is baffling. Why should a messaging app take my entire screen? Why can't directly send an .exe to the desktop to create a shortcut? I need to open the file location and manually send it...
Anyway, just my first impression. I fail to see one thing that Metro is doing better for now. I'll try making it my primary OS for a few days on a laptop. The VM experience is not that great.
The 'glance' on 'live tiles' gives you next to no information. Its mostly useless information... Like I said, its next to 'you have mail' in usefulness. The ribbon doesnt make the desktop easier to navigate on a tablet. You still have micro icons, little boxes... etc... 99% of the 'desktop' hasnt been improved for tablet. Go fiddle with power options on a tablet, the advanced ones. Go try using disk clean up. Most desktop apps are still that, desktop apps. The 1% they did for tablets isnt enough. Again, its a problem of trying to fit between two completely different os styles touch and mouse.
They dont need to lie, they arent lying, but they are doing marketting and spreading bs about. There is a backlash, and they use 'graphs and statistics' to prove why its better. That doesnt fly. Ive actually used it on tablets and laptops, a graph doesnt cut it. Again, all this is just justification for their tablet approach. If they actually had some gumption, it would be 'use it'. When you need graphs, spread sheets, consumer focus groups, then you are fucked.
Just look at their 'ideal' tablet size, the screen resolution is the most common laptop one. Why? Its popular. Is it the best? No. Is it ideal? No. Why is it popular? Its the cheapest shit laptop makes have done.
Even with surface, they went with that shitty rez, in an age of increasing resolutions, they looked at laptops and said 'well its popular, must be good?' How is surface going to look next to all the hd tablets coming out? The retina displayes, the 1080s?
But a graph said it was the most used resolution? Oh it must be the right one! That shit was outdated 4 years ago on laptop, and those have 15 inch screens.
Its not less cluttered, its the definion of clutter, more things taking up more room. Clutter. Its a stylistic mess.
Its not less number of steps. Its more, shut down your computer? Start, shut down. Launch a folder? Start pictures.
Metro? Click desktop, click folders, click pictures. Entering desktop? I dont need to do that on my computers, its the default, as it should be on any non tablet. But the halfery of assery is too immense for them to simply give us that option.
And no, as I said, there is a reason most people dont 'auto hide' their options on bigger screens, because its stupid to. No one uses that shit because its counter intuitive.
And I wont be sticking any of my common programs onto metro, no one with half a brain would.
None of what I have said is factually incorrect. Nice try stephen fry but that shit wont fly in the sky.
Ive used it on a tablet, metro works well there, the desktop stuff doesnt.
Ive used it on a laptop, the desktop stuff works well there, the metro stuff doesnt.
People tell me 'well thats how its meant to be' So why is metro on my desktop? Why is desktop on my tablet? Make them both for each other. Its not rocket science, its logic, you cater to the platform. You dont stick huge ass icons on a huge ass screen, and you dont put tiny ones on a tiny screen.
And im not mad, I dont care that much. Just dont dislike the direction microsoft and co are taking in the desktop. There is no 'hybridisation' there is no marketting shit going on. Desktop isnt changing, and neither are laptops. Tablets, Latops and desktops. 3 different things. Just like tablet and mobile go together, laptop and desktop do. And why? Because they are essentially the same 'thing' And now? we are being told 'its all the same thing'.... Well it isnt, never will be, and cant be, because touch doesnt work on things that you dont want to touch.
And this place has become such a circle jerk because most people try it and move on, most people havent had great experiences, it seems most of the 'buzz' isnt that good for windows 8.
And I stuck with it, I tried dev, consumer, release, on tablet and laptop. I appreciate the changes made under the hood for the desktop, but dont like the tablet elements. And tablet wise? I appreciate most of the metro stuff, mostly, some of it isnt that great, I would like more customisability, more info on live tiles, different sizes... etc... but, the desktop shit is awful on it.
Because the two dont go together. Its like A nice bit of steak, and a loverly chocolate cake. One, after the other, not both at the same time.
And im not irrationally hating or being a mad hatter, or even 'mad' when I post I dont fume. Like I said, I loved vista, I thought it was miles ahead of xp. Same with 7. But this? This is half assed. This isnt right, no sir, I dont like it. They crossed the streams.
They dont need to lie, they arent lying, but they are doing marketting and spreading bs about. There is a backlash, and they use 'graphs and statistics' to prove why its better. That doesnt fly. Ive actually used it on tablets and laptops, a graph doesnt cut it. Again, all this is just justification for their tablet approach. If they actually had some gumption, it would be 'use it'. When you need graphs, spread sheets, consumer focus groups, then you are fucked.
Just look at their 'ideal' tablet size, the screen resolution is the most common laptop one. Why? Its popular. Is it the best? No. Is it ideal? No. Why is it popular? Its the cheapest shit laptop makes have done.
Even with surface, they went with that shitty rez, in an age of increasing resolutions, they looked at laptops and said 'well its popular, must be good?' How is surface going to look next to all the hd tablets coming out? The retina displayes, the 1080s?
But a graph said it was the most used resolution? Oh it must be the right one! That shit was outdated 4 years ago on laptop, and those have 15 inch screens.
Its not less cluttered, its the definion of clutter, more things taking up more room. Clutter. Its a stylistic mess.
Its not less number of steps. Its more, shut down your computer? Start, shut down. Launch a folder? Start pictures.
Metro? Click desktop, click folders, click pictures. Entering desktop? I dont need to do that on my computers, its the default, as it should be on any non tablet. But the halfery of assery is too immense for them to simply give us that option.
And no, as I said, there is a reason most people dont 'auto hide' their options on bigger screens, because its stupid to. No one uses that shit because its counter intuitive.
And I wont be sticking any of my common programs onto metro, no one with half a brain would.
None of what I have said is factually incorrect. Nice try stephen fry but that shit wont fly in the sky.
Ive used it on a tablet, metro works well there, the desktop stuff doesnt.
Ive used it on a laptop, the desktop stuff works well there, the metro stuff doesnt.
People tell me 'well thats how its meant to be' So why is metro on my desktop? Why is desktop on my tablet? Make them both for each other. Its not rocket science, its logic, you cater to the platform. You dont stick huge ass icons on a huge ass screen, and you dont put tiny ones on a tiny screen.
And im not mad, I dont care that much. Just dont dislike the direction microsoft and co are taking in the desktop. There is no 'hybridisation' there is no marketting shit going on. Desktop isnt changing, and neither are laptops. Tablets, Latops and desktops. 3 different things. Just like tablet and mobile go together, laptop and desktop do. And why? Because they are essentially the same 'thing' And now? we are being told 'its all the same thing'.... Well it isnt, never will be, and cant be, because touch doesnt work on things that you dont want to touch.
And this place has become such a circle jerk because most people try it and move on, most people havent had great experiences, it seems most of the 'buzz' isnt that good for windows 8.
And I stuck with it, I tried dev, consumer, release, on tablet and laptop. I appreciate the changes made under the hood for the desktop, but dont like the tablet elements. And tablet wise? I appreciate most of the metro stuff, mostly, some of it isnt that great, I would like more customisability, more info on live tiles, different sizes... etc... but, the desktop shit is awful on it.
Because the two dont go together. Its like A nice bit of steak, and a loverly chocolate cake. One, after the other, not both at the same time.
And im not irrationally hating or being a mad hatter, or even 'mad' when I post I dont fume. Like I said, I loved vista, I thought it was miles ahead of xp. Same with 7. But this? This is half assed. This isnt right, no sir, I dont like it. They crossed the streams.
Every Metro app is required to have a 1/3 screen mode, like the message app, and you don't need to search for the executable to pin it to the taskbar
Steelyuhas
Member
To keep up with the changing marketplace and to correct a wrong for a long time. Windows has been way to expensive for consumers outside of buying a new machine for a long time. It says nothing about the quality of the product.
Or they want the barrier to entry very low for this version to get everyone to adopt so the next version will be a completely walled off garden?
Steelyuhas
Member
What does the next version after Windows 8 have to do with people adopting to Windows 8?
Upgrading Windows has always been much more expensive than it should be, and a lot of people don't upgrade until they purchase a new machine because of this. Now, people can upgrade their current machines for a reasonable price, and MS hopes that a lot more people will upgrade their machines instead of staying on the old OS's. It's that simple, there's not secret agenda about wanting people to upgrade to the new OS. You think MS is happy that so many people are still on XP instead of upgrading?
Open Windows desktop is not going anywhere anytime soon.
Is it ? I paid $60 for windows 7 at launch. That was a retail packaging copy so I got the box + disc . This one is $40 and I have to supply the usb stick and use my bandwidth to download.
I don't see a $20 diffrence being that drastic
Wiktor
Member
And they're pretty much are in Windows 8
lazybum131
Member
Pretty sure that was only pre-order pricing for Home Premium, and a fairly limited buying period.
http://arstechnica.com/information-...ndows-7-pricing-announced-cheaper-than-vista/
And that is why they are forcing metro on desktops. They want the apps to transition to it so they can leverage and use it for tablet domination. Pretty simple eh?
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
I uninstalled Windows 8 and went back to Windows 7 on my laptop. That experiment didn't go well at all. The lack of switchable graphics ended my experiment early, but by the end, Windows 8 was terribly unresponsive and slow. That worries me, I hope it was an anomaly.
brotkasten
Member
John Carmack would be happy if Windows 8 didn't exist. Can we have a thread for that?
lunarworks
Member
Carmack isn't relevant anymore.
Live tiles can be whatever you want them to be. For weather and stocks, they provide plenty of info as is. If you have no new mail, knowing that instantly is great.
For more full featured live tiles, look at something like MyStocks:
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/apps/70fab1bd-605e-e011-854c-00237de2db9e
The live tiles are awesome and configurable.
For more full featured live tiles, look at something like MyStocks:
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/apps/70fab1bd-605e-e011-854c-00237de2db9e
The live tiles are awesome and configurable.
And ? This is only limited to january ? Its the same thing.
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
i thought you could only press the windows key to get the start screen and only win+D to get to desktop.
Steelyuhas
Member
Toggling the start button takes you between the Start Screen and the last open "app". The Desktop is treated like an app in that case.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Implying anyone who disagrees isn't a "real user".
I have no idea what that means.
Jzero
Member
If Windows 8 is slower than Windows 7 then that means you're doing something wrong.
We will see. It is not like Microsoft is going to sit back while Google and Apple create their own ecosystems and just rake in the cash from percentages of others work and they have to do nothing. That is a oil well that can be pumped well beyond their biannual Windows updates. If they move to fast it will be to big of a jolt to users and will get rejected. If they can slowly en-grain their ecosystem into this new look and have users locked in, they have the hook.
If you want to see their plan just look at Xbox live and how that has matured from the beginning to now. Windows 8/9 will eventually be the extension of that and that is why PC game developers are freaking out.
Steelyuhas
Member
I have no doubt that they want users to embrace and become engrained in the ecosystem, but I don't think that means they will completely close off open Windows in a couple of years. Remember, Xbox Live was always a closed platform.
Right now MS is the position is where RIM was when android launched.
They have viable competitors, and they need to adapt fast. I think they are acting correctly, to markot's dismay. W8 is a transitional product and if they can just feign developer support for two years they'll be able to capitalize on their future closed ecosystem in the future.
They have viable competitors, and they need to adapt fast. I think they are acting correctly, to markot's dismay. W8 is a transitional product and if they can just feign developer support for two years they'll be able to capitalize on their future closed ecosystem in the future.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
They don't have an obvious closed ecosystem, but thays where they, and countless other companies, are moving.
Some are already in play, others like MS haven't begun it on an obvious level.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
It's cool, I was just poking fun at your awkward sentence by quoting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHRq80QNnJM
I think for metro they will.... but they will keep the desktop there for at least the next decade (just like dos is still there in win8). blizzard/ea/id/etc all want to keep their own stores so they can make the 30% (or whatever fee they charge these days) and not let ms have it by using their store. Will be interesting if ms lets those guys port their services to xbox live through api's and how they will do the revenue split.
They don't have huge overall numbers, they're just really good at squeezing money out of people.
Zombie James
Banned
Seems the x86 and x64 versions of Pro have leaked already.
edit: Weird, setup still uses Aero Glass:
I'd post a link to the source for more pictures but it's from a Chinese forum so I have no idea if there's anything fishy on there.
edit: Weird, setup still uses Aero Glass:
I'd post a link to the source for more pictures but it's from a Chinese forum so I have no idea if there's anything fishy on there.
lunarworks
Member
What it means... Well, so far most of the people I've heard lumping praise onto Windows 8 essential say that "people will love it."
"People will love it."
As in, all theoretical at this point.
Then they go on to dismiss complaints as "you're unwilling to change".
Don't kid yourself , every single product out there requires you to change. Andriod is diffrent than ios and OSX is diffrent from windows. People adapt to both .
Change isn't the problem. The problem comes from those who don't want to change. I know people who still wish they can use windows 95
lunarworks
Member
Change for the sake of change is a problem. Change is effective when it addresses a functionality issue. For tablets, it had to be addressed. For desktops, nope.
I've been an early adopter of every version of Windows for the last two decades. I've installed new releases with great enthusiasm. This is the first one I'm not putting on any of my machines. Add to that the fact that everyone in my family has reacted with "bleh" when I've shown them Windows 8. My girlfriend, who even allowed me to install a Windows 7 beta on her machine, doesn't want Windows 8 anywhere near it.
Some would argue that the primary issue at this junction of software evolution isn't just usability, but unification (MS thinks so. Apple clearly thinks so).
Zombie James
Banned
Unification will be sloppy when the platforms are so different. How anyone will properly unify one single interface for finger input on 7-10" screens and mouse input on 19-27" screens and make both sides happy is beyond me. Tablets are fundamentally and distinctly different from PCs.
Yup my uncle was the same way , allways a new verison of dos , allways a new verison of windows.... then windows 95 hit and after that he never wanted to upgrade. he is still on xp with it in classic desktop.
Here's the thing though, tablets are getting close to replacing laptops, now that they're starting to get keyboard docks. Devices like Microsoft's tablet will start to push laptops aside as they get more powerful.
That's where W8 will be a huge success. You put your tablet in its dock and you got a windows laptop, take it out and it's a tablet.
lunarworks
Member
Hey, I installed the new version of OS X right away. I'm eagerly anticipating iOS 6. I can't wait for a build of Android 4.1 for my HP TouchPad.
Make what you will of that.
brotkasten
Member
You're a boring masochist?
You don't mind applying Service packs to your computer ? Cause thats all apple has been doing for a decade or so.
Andriod 4.1 is still crud compared to real os's and IOS 6 still hasn't made any big changes since the original
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