Superman is releasing on digital this week (Friday, 8/15)!

Yeah this whole scene is awful. Gunn deciding to just end the whole clusterfuck with Krypto assaulting Lex instead of resolving the scene in a meaningful manner is telling he just gave up on it. I think exactly like that guy. I really do believe Gunn went through some therapy during the whole pedo jokes debacle and is projecting those feelings onto Superman. It feels extremely out of place in the movie because in no point before that was this sort of exposition dump built up. Superman saying I HAVE FEELINGS in the tone befitting a 14 year old girl is not his character. Even if his feelings are hurt, Superman contains those feelings, he doesn't indulge in them. And why of all people does he tell this to Lex, a geniune psychopath dipshit? Corenswet was completely right to object to these lines because it doesn't fit him at all and the delivery is also all wrong. And that Youtuber saying Superman needs to act like a man. Well this brings me to this movie again



I'll take you in without breaking you. Which is more than you deserve.

This is exactly how Superman should approach an asshole like Lex. Not seek his approval but rather remind him of his imminent judgement. And going to Lex, this scene implies his deep seated hatred and envy against Superman. He doesn't need to say it outright, it's more than apparent in the words and expressions Luthor uses. Lex also asserts his dominance on Superman through word plays and nods, all to assume an intellectual edge on Superman. Because he's just that desperate to be better.
And finally, Gunn chose to have Superman say "I have feelings too!". In BvS, images of his captured mother are thrown at his face and he completely breaks down at that point. There is no need for him to say anything more. That alone is more than any exposition dump. He's prone to all the fallings of man too. So we've truly come full circle. People are criticizing S2025 for things that the Snyder films already resolved. I wonder if some of the critics are self aware enough to see that.

One of my favorite moments in the SnyderVerse is when, in MoS, Martha walks straight to the pictures in the house after Zod destroys the farm. Nothing less, nothing more, just pictures of her baby boy and family. It's not shouted at the audience, show don't tell. Truly touching! 1:35 into this video:



"I'm alright" and then the relief on Clark's face says it all. Also the "it's only stuffs Clark, it can always be replaced" but not the pictures. That's how I want my Kent family.

Also I can't help but that suit is freakin' glorious lol
 
One of my favorite moments in the SnyderVerse is when, in MoS, Martha walks straight to the pictures in the house after Zod destroys the farm. Nothing less, nothing more, just pictures of her baby boy and family. It's not shouted at the audience, show don't tell. Truly touching! 1:35 into this video:



"I'm alright" and then the relief on Clark's face says it all. Also the "it's only stuffs Clark, it can always be replaced" but not the pictures. That's how I want my Kent family.

Also I can't help but that suit is freakin' glorious lol

I like Martha's casual "nice suit son". It recognizes him looking out of place but at the same time approves of it. These characters had a way of being authentic in that they would recognize the comic book/scifi elements but then accepting it, which makes the worldbuilding more geniune. The movie doesn't forget what's outlandish, but still tries sincerely to make it feel as real as possible.
Also that Zimmer score for MoS is a real mood setter damn. I need to rewatch this movie again.
 
Yeah this whole scene is awful. Gunn deciding to just end the whole clusterfuck with Krypto assaulting Lex instead of resolving the scene in a meaningful manner is telling he just gave up on it. I think exactly like that guy. I really do believe Gunn went through some therapy during the whole pedo jokes debacle and is projecting those feelings onto Superman. It feels extremely out of place in the movie because in no point before that was this sort of exposition dump built up. Superman saying I HAVE FEELINGS in the tone befitting a 14 year old girl is not his character. Even if his feelings are hurt, Superman contains those feelings, he doesn't indulge in them. And why of all people does he tell this to Lex, a geniune psychopath dipshit? Corenswet was completely right to object to these lines because it doesn't fit him at all and the delivery is also all wrong. And that Youtuber saying Superman needs to act like a man. Well this brings me to this movie again



I'll take you in without breaking you. Which is more than you deserve.

This is exactly how Superman should approach an asshole like Lex. Not seek his approval but rather remind him of his imminent judgement. And going to Lex, this scene implies his deep seated hatred and envy against Superman. He doesn't need to say it outright, it's more than apparent in the words and expressions Luthor uses. Lex also asserts his dominance on Superman through word plays and nods, all to assume an intellectual edge on Superman. Because he's just that desperate to be better.
And finally, Gunn chose to have Superman say "I have feelings too!". In BvS, images of his captured mother are thrown at his face and he completely breaks down at that point. There is no need for him to say anything more. That alone is more than any exposition dump. He's prone to all the fallings of man too. So we've truly come full circle. People are criticizing S2025 for things that the Snyder films already resolved. I wonder if some of the critics are self aware enough to see that.


Arguing that BVS got absolutely anything right in comparisons with this movie surrounding supes is surprising to me. Because that movie fundamentally misunderstands superman as a character.

No, he does not resolve opposition by trying ti use fear tactics.

Superman is telling Lex in Gunns movie, not that he has feelings but he's refuting Lexs perspective that he's some aloof God elevating himself. Had he tried to argue Lex by simply trying ti intimidate him, it would prove his point.

Hes called a boy scout for a reason. His goodness and decency and his perspective of himself may seem boy ish to those two are jaded by modern sensibilities. But thats exactly why a superman who's unabashed in these qualities is whats needed. Hes SUPPOSED to stand out.
 
Arguing that BVS got absolutely anything right in comparisons with this movie surrounding supes is surprising to me. Because that movie fundamentally misunderstands superman as a character.

No, he does not resolve opposition by trying ti use fear tactics.

Superman is telling Lex in Gunns movie, not that he has feelings but he's refuting Lexs perspective that he's some aloof God elevating himself. Had he tried to argue Lex by simply trying ti intimidate him, it would prove his point.

Hes called a boy scout for a reason. His goodness and decency and his perspective of himself may seem boy ish to those two are jaded by modern sensibilities. But thats exactly why a superman who's unabashed in these qualities is whats needed. Hes SUPPOSED to stand out.
Everything you said is thrown into the bin the second we learn that he physically intimidated the President by promising him more if he didn't comply. "But it was just a tiny cactus". Ha... ha... ha... laughing my ass off James Gunn. Very funny. Very Superman-ish. And if you start to actually think of how it happened it gets even worse.
Using fear tactics is exactly what Gunn's Superman is doing, not Cavill's.

The thing a lot of people don't get is that while BvS is set in a pretty dark world, Superman himself isn't dark. He is that hope we love, sure it's not put right into our face with a big monologue, it's more subtle but it's still there

hfBV35MoJT31t3FG.png


With Gunn, everything is easy, everything is taken as a joke (the biggest example of that is Hawkgirl killing the president and then a cut to a doliprane to simulate his fall, wtf is this shit for real?) and that's why I think Cavill was way more hopeful.
You can't really convey hope without a minimum of contradiction to bring it to light otherwise it's just seems flat, empty and unearned.

That's just my opinion of course, but saying BvS didn't got anything right or that Snyder don't get the character is a complain I'll never understand. I could expand on this with examples from the movie(s) if you want. I love them so much.
 
Everything you said is thrown into the bin the second we learn that he physically intimidated the President by promising him more if he didn't comply. "But it was just a tiny cactus". Ha... ha... ha... laughing my ass off James Gunn. Very funny. Very Superman-ish. And if you start to actually think of how it happened it gets even worse.
Using fear tactics is exactly what Gunn's Superman is doing, not Cavill's.

Supernan is not exactly praised for doing that. Hes criticized by the closest person he has. That is near the beginning of the film, the scene with Lex is toward the end. Hes not shown as being entirely in the right there, his actions are shown in uncertain context. That we later find out the president is an evil puppet doesn't really change that he has a responsibility to consider how it comes across when he does use force.

There is a character arc here and there was a behind the scenes done showing James and David discussing this scene because David had criticisms of it too. James argued they should keep it in because its not just call telling lex this stuff. Hes reaffirming his own stance and his own existence to himself after his faith in himself was shaken. Because, as the movie shows us, he was sent to earhr to be EXACTLY what lex sees him as, and it was only by luck that he managed to evade that message snd grow up to be like that.

This shakes Clark's entire foundation on why he does what he does. So when he's telling lex this hes reminding himself why he's not like that despite what he was sent to earth to do.

Keep in mind he also tries to use fear tactics on Lex when krypto is taken. It again blows up in his face. Every time he does this in the movie it doesn't work out in his favor. In the end, superman defeats the enemy on his own terms.

The thing a lot of people don't get is that while BvS is set in a pretty dark world, Superman himself isn't dark. He is that hope we love, sure it's not put right into our face with a big monologue, it's more subtle but it's still there

Yea, no. Superman himself in the movie says "No one stays good in this world." There is no recovery point from that either where he realizes he was wrong for saying that. Lex brings him to his breaking point by capturing his own mother. Then he gets defeated by Batman. Then BATMAN, not superman saves his mother. Then Superman dies fighting Doomsday.

The movie comes across more as a refutation of hope, than one that acknowledges the value of it. Superman is at every turn thwarted, harmed, taken advantage of, tricked, and devastated any time he tries to show any hope in the movie.

In Gunns superman, its the thing that grants him his victory.

With Gunn, everything is easy, everything is taken as a joke (the biggest example of that is Hawkgirl killing the president and then a cut to a doliprane to simulate his fall, wtf is this shit for real?) and that's why I think Cavill was way more hopeful.
You can't really convey hope without a minimum of contradiction to bring it to light otherwise it's just seems flat, empty and unearned.

But there is that contradiction in the movie. Its there. Yes, Gunn is lighthearted at times, and thats not going to be for everyone. But what Gunn gets right is why this character works and why he is THE model of a superhero. The contradiction needs to be overcome, and superman needs to be the driving force behind that. In man of steel we are told hes an ideal to strive towards. But the movies don't treat him like one. They treat his virtue as ripe for corruption, and prone to constant failure. Its my biggest issue with Snyder movies. And I dont think they are devoid of any hope; but the hope surrounding superman in those movies is shown from an aloof, human perspective. We are shown human nobodies revering him like a god. But how does superman view himself? Does he share that view? Does he see himself as a figure of worship? Itd unclear. Hes written as distant, aloof, unsure. It just doesn't come together for me.
 
Everything you said is thrown into the bin the second we learn that he physically intimidated the President by promising him more if he didn't comply. "But it was just a tiny cactus". Ha... ha... ha... laughing my ass off James Gunn. Very funny. Very Superman-ish. And if you start to actually think of how it happened it gets even worse.
Using fear tactics is exactly what Gunn's Superman is doing, not Cavill's.

The thing a lot of people don't get is that while BvS is set in a pretty dark world, Superman himself isn't dark. He is that hope we love, sure it's not put right into our face with a big monologue, it's more subtle but it's still there

hfBV35MoJT31t3FG.png


With Gunn, everything is easy, everything is taken as a joke (the biggest example of that is Hawkgirl killing the president and then a cut to a doliprane to simulate his fall, wtf is this shit for real?) and that's why I think Cavill was way more hopeful.
You can't really convey hope without a minimum of contradiction to bring it to light otherwise it's just seems flat, empty and unearned.

That's just my opinion of course, but saying BvS didn't got anything right or that Snyder don't get the character is a complain I'll never understand. I could expand on this with examples from the movie(s) if you want. I love them so much.
MoS Superman passes judgment on an entire race of people. Hope he is not.
 
I watched MOS multiple times, this I won't. MOS is a far superior movie than this. I thought the suit in this movie also looked stupid as hell, yes it's comic book accurate but still looks stupid.
 
Alright let's expand on that, and sorry but this is going to be a bit long because I can't really prove my point in 2 lines. ^^

Supernan is not exactly praised for doing that. Hes criticized by the closest person he has. That is near the beginning of the film, the scene with Lex is toward the end. Hes not shown as being entirely in the right there, his actions are shown in uncertain context. That we later find out the president is an evil puppet doesn't really change that he has a responsibility to consider how it comes across when he does use force.

There is a character arc here and there was a behind the scenes done showing James and David discussing this scene because David had criticisms of it too. James argued they should keep it in because its not just call telling lex this stuff. Hes reaffirming his own stance and his own existence to himself after his faith in himself was shaken. Because, as the movie shows us, he was sent to earhr to be EXACTLY what lex sees him as, and it was only by luck that he managed to evade that message snd grow up to be like that.

This shakes Clark's entire foundation on why he does what he does. So when he's telling lex this hes reminding himself why he's not like that despite what he was sent to earth to do.

Keep in mind he also tries to use fear tactics on Lex when krypto is taken. It again blows up in his face. Every time he does this in the movie it doesn't work out in his favor. In the end, superman defeats the enemy on his own terms.

Yea, no. Superman himself in the movie says "No one stays good in this world." There is no recovery point from that either where he realizes he was wrong for saying that. Lex brings him to his breaking point by capturing his own mother. Then he gets defeated by Batman. Then BATMAN, not superman saves his mother. Then Superman dies fighting Doomsday.

The movie comes across more as a refutation of hope, than one that acknowledges the value of it. Superman is at every turn thwarted, harmed, taken advantage of, tricked, and devastated any time he tries to show any hope in the movie.

In Gunns superman, its the thing that grants him his victory.

But there is that contradiction in the movie. Its there. Yes, Gunn is lighthearted at times, and thats not going to be for everyone. But what Gunn gets right is why this character works and why he is THE model of a superhero. The contradiction needs to be overcome, and superman needs to be the driving force behind that. In man of steel we are told hes an ideal to strive towards. But the movies don't treat him like one. They treat his virtue as ripe for corruption, and prone to constant failure. Its my biggest issue with Snyder movies. And I dont think they are devoid of any hope; but the hope surrounding superman in those movies is shown from an aloof, human perspective. We are shown human nobodies revering him like a god. But how does superman view himself? Does he share that view? Does he see himself as a figure of worship? Itd unclear. Hes written as distant, aloof, unsure. It just doesn't come together for me.
Your take on BvS and Gunn's Superman misses the mark on several fronts, particularly in how you frame Snyder's Superman as a "refutation of hope" and Gunn's as the definitive model.

You argue that Gunn's Superman is criticized for intimidating the President and that these moments are framed as mistakes, showing his growth. But this misses the point: Superman resorting to fear tactics at all (cactus or not) clashes with his core as the ultimate boy scout. You say it's early in the film and part of an arc, but if Superman's first instinct is to strong-arm someone (even an "evil puppet" President), it undermines his moral foundation from the start. The Krypto threat against Lex only doubles down on this—Superman shouldn't need to lean on intimidation to make a point, especially when it repeatedly "blows up in his face." That's not growth, it's a fundamental misstep that makes his hope feel like an afterthought, not a triumph. In contrast, Snyder's Superman in BvS never stoops to such tactics. His power may intimidate others, but that's a consequence of his existence, not a deliberate choice. He wrestles with that perception, seeking to inspire, not scare, like when he saves countless lives in the flood or bombing aftermath, showing hope through action, not threats.

Superman's struggles in BvS 5Lex's manipulations, Batman's hostility, the Senate bombing- are precisely what make his hope meaningful. Hope isn't hope if it's easy. The "no one stays good in this world" line reflects a moment of doubt, sure, but his actions prove otherwise. He saves Lois, confronts Batman not with violence but with a plea ("Martha"), and sacrifices himself to stop Doomsday, inspiring Batman to rediscover his own humanity while the "if you seek his monument, look around you" scene isn't aloof reverence, it's proof of Superman's impact, showing a world uplifted by his selflessness.

That's earned hope, shining brighter because of the dark world around him. Gunn's Superman by your own admission, leans on a lighter tone, but the doliprane gag and Hawkgirl's casual killing of the President cheapen the stakes. If everything's a joke, Superman's hope feels flat, untested by real adversity. Snyder's darker world gives Superman's goodness weight, not defeat.

You say Snyder's Superman is distant, aloof, and unsure, with hope projected onto him by human nobodies rather than defined by him. That's flat-out wrong. In BvS, Superman's internal struggle is clear (he questions his role "Superman was never real") but consistently chooses to do good, from small rescues to his ultimate sacrifice.
His quiet demeanor isn't aloofness, it's humility, a man grappling with godlike power while staying grounded. The "monument" scene isn't about worship, it's about impact, showing how his actions ripple outward. You ask how Superman views himself? He sees himself as a protector, not a god, evident when he tells Lois he wants to be her partner, not a savior. Contrast this with Gunn's Superman, who you claim reaffirms his stance against Lex's "aloof god" narrative. If he's still intimidating people early on, as you admit, that reaffirmation feels hollow, less a rejection of godhood and more a reaction to being called out. And if he's "reminding himself" of his purpose, why does he need to resort to fear tactics at all? That's not the confident, inspiring Superman you claim Gunn nails.

BvS tests Superman's virtue, sure, but he never falters. Every choice, from saving Lois to facing Doomsday, is rooted in selflessness. His "failure" (death) is a triumph, redeeming Batman and inspiring a new Justice League. That's the ideal to strive toward, not a corrupted one. You praise Gunn for showing why Superman is the model superhero, but the examples you give (fear tactics backfiring, a lighthearted tone) suggest a Superman who stumbles into heroism rather than embodies it. The behind-the-scenes debate you mention about the President scene only proves it was contentious, not that it works. If David Corenswet had issues, maybe it's because intimidating the President doesn't scream "Superman." Snyder's Superman, flaws and all, stands tall in a cynical world, proving his goodness through action, not words or cheap gags.

It's really sad to see how misunderstood BvS was, and still is.

MoS Superman passes judgment on an entire race of people. Hope he is not.

Sorry but what? When? Are you talking about the "Krypton had it's chance" scene? Because this is about protecting Earth, his adopted home. The Kryptonian race itself is already extinct so there's no "entire race" for him to judge. His conflict is with Zod's actions, not Kryptonian identity.
 
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Good god, there's so much to say at this point, not to mention the numerous things certain individuals are just objectively lying about when it comes to the film (that since it is available digitally and they even said they watched it that way, they have no excuse to not fact check themselves), like claiming Lois says she doesn't believe in their relationship, when she actually said this: "I told you I'm not great at relationships." She's criticizing herself, not him. DUH.

But before we eventually get to all that, now we're honestly crying about Krypto slightly roughing up LEX LUTHOR? The same Lex who tortured Krypto, made it clear he'd kill Krypto once he was done analyzing him, and also shot an innocent civilian in the head? Oh, and opened a dimensional rift just to draw Superman's attention and didn't close it when it was headed to an area that wasn't evacuated yet? That's who the Snyder fanboys want to shed tears for?

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Superman can tell his dog wasn't try to kill Lex. Dude got banged up a bit, BOO HOO. If Krypto was actually aiming to kill, yes, Superman would obviously step in, the movie just doesn't pause the action and hold the viewer's hand to slowly explain that to them as opposed to just understanding general character behavior.

Never mind that in BvS, Superman had to hold himself back from heat vision-ing Mark Zuckerberg* POINT BLANK (*oh, I'm sorry, Jesse Eisenberg walking on set and claiming to be playing Lex Luthor, but oh no, it's Hoult who can't play Lex because…Lex got angry like twice in the movie…in moments where Superman and others outplayed him. Like, bruh, even if one doesn't read the comics, even Hackman's Lex could lose his cool). Yeah, pretty sure THAT would be fatal. But remember, it's okay when THEIR Superman does far worse stuff or lets his emotions cloud his judgment. But a Superman who has an argument with his girlfriend (over the Boravia/Jarhanpur situation which makes sense as to Superman saving lives is the most important thing so he would get frustrated if someone tried to argue otherwise no matter what. Him getting upset about the online backlash later in that same scene was because he was already upset, and no, he didn't really yell at her, good god) that they resolve the very next time they meet? Oh no, [sarcasm]Superman could never[/sarcasm].

Christ, their director even was like, "Batman didn't murder those security guards when he was trying to get the kryptonite. He just committed manslaughter". A) WTF, and B) Snyder defended by citing Dark Knight Returns, except Batman doesn't kill anyone in that book. This is clear because a warrant for his arrest happens due to Joker making it look like his death was caused by Batman. Never mind that those guards probably have little, possible zero clue how evil Lex really is, and are just doing their job. But you know, Batman was in a hurry, so fuck them and their loved ones apparently.

For real, it shows how shit Snyder's Batman was in that movie that he managed to make such poor deductive reasoning to reach the point of intending to kill Superman. Meanwhile, in this movie, GUY GARDENER goes, "is Supes out to take over the world? I don't know, probably not." and says the only reason they won't save him is because of the backlash from the government they might face. It's official, Gunn's Guy Gardener's IQ > Zack Snyder's Batman's IQ (had to specify Zack's first name at least once, wouldn't want to imply Scott Snyder, an actual decent Batman and Superman writer, was to blame).

For all the whining about the jokes in the movie, at least Gunn writes his characters capable of behaving like normal human beings.

But you know, clearly we needed more actual reasonable human behavior from the Snyder films:

-dads telling their son first they should reconsider saving children who were going to die (and no, there's no way one can spin that without it being fucked up, especially as he doesn't open his talk by at least congratulating his son on SAVING CHILDREN'S LIVES. Geezus, that's basic parenting right there)
-an overly blue tint to the whole damn film so we know the film is SUPER SERIOUS, YOU GUYS
-Perry White and his team staring at the World Enging horrifically murdering people and getting closer for 15 minutes before Perry finally goes, "oh, uh, we should leave!" (meanwhile, 2025 Perry, Lois, and Jimmy are focused on getting all the details on Eve's exposure of Lex, and Perry knows Lois flew there in Terrific's ship so they can leave easily in time so they don't need to hurry as much. Meanwhile, everyone else around them are evacuating)
-a fucking crater where half of Metropolis used to be (ah yes, Superman comics, promoting hope and optimism, totally represented with such imagery)
-a Superman who is told to inspire people and yet actually doesn't (the military would fight Zod and his genocidal plans anyway obviously, and Perry and Lombard try to save Jenny with zero awareness of Superman at that point) unlike 2025 Superman actually inspiring Guy, Hawkgirl, and the people of Jarhanpur
-Jimmy Olsen being on screen for like a minute and then being shot in the head, just so we've extra, extra convinced the movie is edgy, err, I mean, "dark" (oh, and Snyder claiming Dick Grayson, one of the most beloved DC characters, was the dead Robin. Warner Bros would later override him on that bullshit, with them saying it was Jason Todd, as it should be)
-Lex sending a congresswoman a jar possibly filled with piss (which is followed by a horrific explosion causing many deaths, now THAT'S some actually baffling mood whiplash)
-Batman being too stupid to realize beforehand that the person he's about to murder could have been raised by a human mother (with the moment being delivered in a far more infamous moment than any moment in this new film had no matter how much certain people will desperately wish it so)
-and Superman being too stupid to hand the damn kryptonite spear to Wonder Woman (also, that spear, would have been totally useless for Batman against Superman if his fight with Superman hadn't conveniently brought them near it, LOL).

All resulting in a film that was the live action debut of Superman and Batman (and Wonder Woman) together, during the height of superhero film box office potential (as now international, especially China which is a huge market, just won't give them a chance regardless of quality), and it couldn't clear a billion dollars. Ouch. Only 890 million despite Snyder having all the tools at his disposal and he still couldn't reach that…..and then one year later, Patty Jenkins had only Wonder Woman to use and yet she made 820 million, only 70 million short of the film that also had Batman and Superman, with her film. Huh, I guess it sometimes helps when you make an actual good film.

Oh, and Batman v Superman's second weekend dropoff? Worst in superhero film history of those that opened to 100 million or more on their first weekend, only finally being dethroned in that category when Ant-man 3 released seven years later.

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Jesus christ dude chill the fuck out 😆 🤣
 
Enjoyed it quite a bit and I'm looking forward to seeing it again. Especially Mr Terrific who was so damn good.

The biggest complaint I have is Lex calling out codes like a videogame, which is then inputted by one of his workers, and then transmitted to the big baddie who pummels Superman.
Superman certainly moves a hell of a lot faster than a human trying to call out numbers, let alone that entire string of commands playing out.
 
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