Windows 8 Release Preview

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Vista was only slow because the disk indexing would take over. Windows 8 does look to be another Vista. Vista was pushed through when it was clear to people testing it wasn't ready. Just in this thread alone we have multiple people with random lockups, not a good sign for a kind of 'RC'. Saying you hardly ever see Metro so it's not that bad is a stupid point, as that is the #1 'feature' of Windows 8. Right now Metro is regressive from the start menu, it uses the entire screen and displays less information than the Start Menu, especially when searching. The only point of Metro is to trojan horse Microsoft into the tablet market. Some people like Metro, some people liked HP NewWave and some liked the Hot Dog Stand theme, we'll see what the public perception of it is.

Vista wasn't a bad OS and Windows 8 isn't a bad OS, but that doesn't mean it's a leap forward, some steps back with some steps forward.

saying you have problems with RC is like saying the sky is blue. Of course it's gonna have problems. Wait till RTM to troll at least. For fuck sake, I still have problems in windows 7 (wifi won't auto connect on wake up) but did I go "well this is just complete crap". No I take the good with the bad and make a rational choice. Also saying that some being able to avoid metro if they want, isn't a valid point, then your just thrusting your opinions onto others. It would make more sense to justify WHY it isn't a valid point. Also if windows 8 is all about metro the why even have a desktop. Being angry doesn't get you anywhere, at least think before you foolishly post about nothing.
 
There is still a cost for IOS
Not a per device cost, which is what the consumer sees when purchasing.

Not on me , but its been adressed by Hardware manufacturers before , not an out right price but that there is a charge to install the andriod store.
Meaningless without the price. Is it $5 per device, $0.05 per device, or is it a blanket licensing cost like the $99 ioS app developer registration that gives you the right to include it in as many devices as you can?

Don't forget each company is also paying MS to make andriod tablets and phones.
Only 1-2 years left before the patents expire and that well dries up.
 
if you just want to watch movies and surf the web sure I can see how an ipad might be better. Then again there is WINDOWS 8 ARM and those devices will offer the same battery life and weight as the ipad.
But they will cost more and have a vastly inferior marketplace. Don't see them selling so well over the iPad.

For those of us who expect more from our devices slightly heavier tablets with much more powerful CPUs will be fine.
There are very few of you, again niche market.

What is this BS ? Why do I need to find things that fit into your use case.
Because if you can't find one easily, that means it's a niche.

Then when I want to edit video I took during the day or play a more hardcore game I put it into the dock and there we go.
You need a heavy thing to play anything hardcore and I doubt many people will be bringing that with them on a vacation, and you can also edit video on the iPad itself just fine. In fact, you can record AND edit video on the iPad without much trouble.
 
Windows RT Pricing - hal2020 said:
Rumors are flying that Windows RT (with Office 2013 included) will cost OEM’s $85 a copy. This is causing a bit of an uproar because at that price there is no way an OEM can build an Amazon Kindle Fire ($200, subsidized by Amazon’s services) competitor. Indeed it extrapolates to tablets that will be in the $500-700 range, just like the current generation iPad! And, btw, the new Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 which priced at $550. So if this pricing is correct then it says to me that Microsoft decided it wanted to target the premium part of the tablet market rather than the bargain part of the market. Good decision? Maybe, maybe not. But it is important to consider that Microsoft can always reduce the price later, but it can’t realistically raise it.

Pricing is, of course, far more complicated than a simple “$85 a unit” conveys. For example, Microsoft typically has co-marketing plans in place so that it effectively rebates part of the unit price back in exchange for certain marketing activities. An OEM who advertises a tablet and includes a Microsoft Windows logo and tagline might get a $1 back for each $1 they spend up to some number of dollars per unit sold. That could effectively lower the price per unit by several dollars. Microsoft could also share other revenue streams, such as from app sales, further reducing the effective cost per unit. In fact there is a rumor that they are going to do just that. They could extend this to Xbox Music and Video sales, making for another effective reduction in cost per unit for the OEM. So you really have to look at what the net cost is going to be for the OEM, not the headline price.

And what if you really did want a competitor to the Kindle Fire? Keep in mind that this is a heavily subsidized device. Amazon is at best breaking even on the device itself, and losing significant money when Sales and Distribution costs are factored in. Microsoft has a number of ways it can enable lower priced tablets to compete with the Fire. They have the same media subsidy possibilities with a combination of Xbox Music and Video and their new Nook e-book joint venture. They could offer a lower price on Windows RT for 7″ screen devices. They could offer a Windows RT variant optimized for media consumption devices (by removing Office 2013, for example). In other words, they have options for competing in this space.

My first reaction to the $85 price was that it was out of line, but now I’m not so sure. A friend pointed out that the OEM price for Windows 7 Starter Edition was $55, and that let Windows successfully compete against (free) Linux in the Netbook market. In fact, Netbooks running Windows 7 Starter Edition were available for as low as $300. Windows 7 Starter Edition didn’t include Microsoft Office, so when you factor that in the $85 price doesn’t seem all that outrageous. Particularly if customers really value having Microsoft Office built-in. And if they don’t? Well then Microsoft could rather easily offer OEMs a lower priced Windows RT without Office!

So don’t get too caught up in the furor over the $85/unit pricing rumors or the $500-700 tablet pricing predictions. They might be outright wrong, and they certainly are operating on incomplete information.
http://hal2020.com/2012/06/13/windows-rt-pricing/
 
Not a per device cost, which is what the consumer sees when purchasing.

How does one see the cost per device when buying if its priced in line with competitor's products ?


Meaningless without the price. Is it $5 per device, $0.05 per device, or is it a blanket licensing cost like the $99 ioS app developer registration that gives you the right to include it in as many devices as you can?


Only 1-2 years left before the patents expire and that well dries up.

You got a defence for everything. Mabye in 1-2 years when that well drys up MS will drop the price of windows on arm.

Infact windows on arm may be that high becaue of Office which will be a big selling point , we don't know how much office will cost on andriod and ios .


But keep trolling.
 
How does one see the cost per device when buying if its priced in line with competitor's products ?
Find me any tablet that's as beautiful and well made as the iPad in hardware quality and doesn't cost more.


Infact windows on arm may be that high becaue of Office which will be a big selling point , we don't know how much office will cost on andriod and ios.
1. iPad has been selling gangbusters without Office, so having Office on a tablet may not be as big of a deal as people think.
2. The cost will be free on android and jailbroken iOS LOL :)
 
saying you have problems with RC is like saying the sky is blue. Of course it's gonna have problems. Wait till RTM to troll at least. For fuck sake, I still have problems in windows 7 (wifi won't auto connect on wake up) but did I go "well this is just complete crap". No I take the good with the bad and make a rational choice. Also saying that some being able to avoid metro if they want, isn't a valid point, then your just thrusting your opinions onto others. It would make more sense to justify WHY it isn't a valid point. Also if windows 8 is all about metro the why even have a desktop. Being angry doesn't get you anywhere, at least think before you foolishly post about nothing.

I'm just relaying my experiences, you don't like it don't read them. Maybe you need to create a Windows 8 circle jerk thread if you can't stand to see that software has issues. Get a better laptop or fix your drivers, at this point if you have standby/resume issues in Win7SP1 it is your hardware, the OS is pretty much bulletproof in this respect now. You can't avoid metro, there is no turn off metro, no control panel setting, no group policy, nothing. Saying you hardly ever see it is a stupid fucking point. You are going to need to think for this next part, if Microsoft released Windows 8 with no Win32 api support it would die quicker than Zune or Sideshow, hell it would die quicker than Kin. Microsoft has been pretty open about the strategy, transitioning their strengths (Win32 library) to the the new home computer, the tablet. Metro is the future, Desktop is legacy.

I'm not angry, I'm frustrated. It is foolish to expect a post here or anywhere other than connect to result in anything at all. I'm not alone in my frustration, a lot of software vendors feel Microsoft is being a bit reckless right now.
 
But they will cost more and have a vastly inferior marketplace. Don't see them selling so well over the iPad.
Depends on what people want them for. I'm also not sure whats heavy. The ipad weights 1.5lbs , is 2lbs to heavy ? I mean my nook is only .46 lbs so the ipad is more than 3 time its weight and yet i know people who still use the ipad to read books instead of just having bought a nook.

Wow see how that works , amazing that people buy diffrent things for diffrent reasons


There are very few of you, again niche market.
What is a niche market , 1m , 10m , 50 million ? All those people that apple can't target because they don't push designs foward

Because if you can't find one easily, that means it's a niche.

This is where you don't make sense , a convertiable x86 device can be used for everything . You can use it as an tablet , work station , laptop , drawing pad , game machine and many other things

You need a heavy thing to play anything hardcore and I doubt many people will be bringing that with them on a vacation, and you can also edit video on the iPad itself just fine. In fact, you can record AND edit video on the iPad without much trouble.

Says who ?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5968/acers-iconia-w700-tablet-windows-8

anand seemed to love the ivy bridge powered tablet here



Here is a nice review

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5872/intel-dual-core-ivy-bridge-launch-and-ultrabook-review/2

3.21 lbs with a 47WH battery , not far off from the ipads 42.5WH battery .


IT seems to game pretty well also

Code:
1366x768
 Minimum

1600x900
 Minimum

1600x900
 Mainstream



Batman: Arkham City

 33

 27

 18



Battlefield 3

 17.7

 16.1

 11.7



Civilization V

 16.3

 15.7

 7.8



DiRT 3 (Low)

 34.2

 30.6

 21



Portal 2

 53.3

 47.8

 25.6



Skyrim

 33.7

 29.5

 17.5



Total War: Shogun 2

 56.4

 47.4

 15.1


It seems to do quite well also , dispite a larger screen to power it was able to run ie8 with flash adds for 466 minutes or 7.7 hours

It does 720p video for 293 minutes or 4.8 hours


There are a slew of games that will run well on there. I can easily play diablo 3 on a cpu that powerful . Of course I'd pick an amd verison and not an intel one.
 
I'm just relaying my experiences, you don't like it don't read them. Maybe you need to create a Windows 8 circle jerk thread if you can't stand to see that software has issues. Get a better laptop or fix your drivers, at this point if you have standby/resume issues in Win7SP1 it is your hardware, the OS is pretty much bulletproof in this respect now. You can't avoid metro, there is no turn off metro, no control panel setting, no group policy, nothing. Saying you hardly ever see it is a stupid fucking point. You are going to need to think for this next part, if Microsoft released Windows 8 with no Win32 api support it would die quicker than Zune or Sideshow, hell it would die quicker than Kin. Microsoft has been pretty open about the strategy, transitioning their strengths (Win32 library) to the the new home computer, the tablet. Metro is the future, Desktop is legacy.

I'm not angry, I'm frustrated. It is foolish to expect a post here or anywhere other than connect to result in anything at all. I'm not alone in my frustration, a lot of software vendors feel Microsoft is being a bit reckless right now.

I think the point is that I can go and point out all the problems with IOS and OSX , but I don't . All software has problems , its not just MS but you seem to want to harp on it
 
Promote piracy, it's cool.

Yup because all the big companys will root or jail break their devices !


People can be so silly , It makes me laugh when they feel that apple has an answer for everything. If they had an answer for everything they wouldn't have needed Microsoft to bail them out of the hole they had dug.
 
I'm just relaying my experiences, you don't like it don't read them. Maybe you need to create a Windows 8 circle jerk thread if you can't stand to see that software has issues. Get a better laptop or fix your drivers, at this point if you have standby/resume issues in Win7SP1 it is your hardware, the OS is pretty much bulletproof in this respect now. You can't avoid metro, there is no turn off metro, no control panel setting, no group policy, nothing. Saying you hardly ever see it is a stupid fucking point. You are going to need to think for this next part, if Microsoft released Windows 8 with no Win32 api support it would die quicker than Zune or Sideshow, hell it would die quicker than Kin. Microsoft has been pretty open about the strategy, transitioning their strengths (Win32 library) to the the new home computer, the tablet. Metro is the future, Desktop is legacy.

I'm not angry, I'm frustrated. It is foolish to expect a post here or anywhere other than connect to result in anything at all. I'm not alone in my frustration, a lot of software vendors feel Microsoft is being a bit reckless right now.
Of course there are problems right now: this isn't final software. Nobody should expect that things would be perfect now, at least nobody sane. There are plenty of complaints in this thread, as there should be. Windows 8 isn't perfect, now will it be once released. But his point was that we shouldn't judge the RP as if it is final software.

And about Metro in general, I have taken a wait and see approach. At this point, I use Metro maybe one minute every hour. Maybe less, even. I am fine with that, as the improvements in the desktop are so nice and the OS so much faster and smoother that I would get it just for those improvements. But once the final release is out, and developers have released Metro apps into the marketplace, that can all change. I think people are forgetting that one reason Metro kinda sucks right now is that there is little to no software to prove its existence yet. I would give it a few months after release before judging the success or failure of Metro as an addition to the Windows PC experience.

But I know that rational thought and measured response isn't the cool thing to do on the internet. Everything has to be the best there ever is/was or suck beyond measure.
 
I think the point is that I can go and point out all the problems with IOS and OSX , but I don't . All software has problems , its not just MS but you seem to want to harp on it

What the fuck does this have to do with iOS or OS X? If I want to harp on Windows 8 this is the place to do it.


Of course there are problems right now: this isn't final software. Nobody should expect that things would be perfect now, at least nobody sane. There are plenty of complaints in this thread, as there should be. Windows 8 isn't perfect, now will it be once released. But his point was that we shouldn't judge the RP as if it is final software.

And at no point have I done this, I'm not new to this process.

And about Metro in general, I have taken a wait and see approach. At this point, I use Metro maybe one minute every hour. Maybe less, even. I am fine with that, as the improvements in the desktop are so nice and the OS so much faster and smoother that I would get it just for those improvements. But once the final release is out, and developers have released Metro apps into the marketplace, that can all change. I think people are forgetting that one reason Metro kinda sucks right now is that there is little to no software to prove its existence yet. I would give it a few months after release before judging the success or failure of Metro as an addition to the Windows PC experience.

This is wise, I don't have this as an option though, if Microsoft hampers the desktop market it effects me directly. Of course, I'm going to voice my displeasure.

But I know that rational thought and measured response isn't the cool thing to do on the internet. Everything has to be the best there ever is/was or suck beyond measure.

Hey, I said it wasn't a bad OS, I just feel they've taken steps back.
 
Michael Dell: "I think the Microsoft Windows 8 solution is going to be very attractive to customers for a number of reasons," Dell said. "You'll see us at launch, at Windows 8 launch, with a full complement of devices--tablets, hybrids, convertibles--you know every imaginable and maybe some unimaginable forms."

Dell also confirmed that the company plans to bring an ARM-based tablet to market. But his enthusiasm for mobile devices does not extend into the smartphone arena. He said in no uncertain terms that the company has no plans to bring a phone to market.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2574...about_windows_8_vows_no_dell_smartphones.html
 
Depends on what people want them for. I'm also not sure whats heavy. The ipad weights 1.5lbs , is 2lbs to heavy ?
For a tablet, even ipad is borderline heavy. ipad 2 was much better in this regard and they're still selling better than all other tablets combined.

What is a niche market , 1m , 10m , 50 million ? All those people that apple can't target because they don't push designs foward
People who bench over 200lbs.

This is where you don't make sense , a convertiable x86 device can be used for everything .You can use it as an tablet , work station , laptop , drawing pad , game machine and many other things
It's too heavy to be a tablet and too underpowered to be a laptop.

Says who ?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5968/acers-iconia-w700-tablet-windows-8
anand seemed to love the ivy bridge powered tablet here
Yes, $800-$1K 2lb 1-inch tablets with active cooling fans will kill the iPad...


Here is a nice review
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5872/intel-dual-core-ivy-bridge-launch-and-ultrabook-review/2
3.21 lbs with a 47WH battery , not far off from the ipads 42.5WH battery .
What do ultrabooks have anything to do with the subject on hand? Apple has been building "ultrabooks" for what 4 years now? If you're linking to this to show how good 22nm Intel CPU's are compared to 45nm ARM CPU's, may I remind you that Apple had no problems switching from PPC to Intel a few years ago, and they can easily do the same with iOS once Intel begins offering competitive performance and power consumption.

Apple has as much cash on hand as Intel's entire market cap, so they can simply buy them in the worst case.
 
And at no point have I done this, I'm not new to this process.
That was more in response to this:
Windows 8 does look to be another Vista. Vista was pushed through when it was clear to people testing it wasn't ready.Just in this thread alone we have multiple people with random lockups, not a good sign for a kind of 'RC'.
This reads as judging too early to me.
This is wise, I don't have this as an option though, if Microsoft hampers the desktop market it effects me directly. Of course, I'm going to voice my displeasure.
Hamper in what way? As far as actual usability? Cause in that respect I'd say there have been numerous improvements with very few drawbacks.
Hey, I said it wasn't a bad OS, I just feel they've taken steps back.
For the most part, I only used your post as a jumping off point to address a number of things I've seen being said in this and other threads. Only the first paragraph was directed to you.
 
Vista is a false comparison.

Vista was genuinely horrible to use on launch because of weak, underpowered hardware, horrible driver support, and tons of performance and stability issues.

People call Windows 8 "bad" because of a slightly confusing UI change that will take people 2 minutes to get used to.
 
Hamper in what way?

My work/company.

Vista was genuinely horrible to use on launch because of weak, underpowered hardware, horrible driver support, and tons of performance and stability issues.

Don't forget UAC, the only other thing Microsoft has botched as badly is IE under Win2k3.

I think Microsoft dropped the ball on Vista because they should have forced X64 as the platform, there was little benefit to splitting the market and it slowed driver development considerably. The drivers weren't ready because everyone fell back on x86 legacy driver support and nobody seemed to take driver development seriously. It didn't help that ATI and nVidia seemed to be in an arms race of the crappiest drivers.

I still can't believe they haven't dropped x86 on Win8, do the low end/tablet Intels not support X64?
 
x86/x64 is a meaningless thing to complain about from both a performance and complexity perspective.

x86 needs to exist for older Atom processors that are not 64-bit. Machines that came out even before Vista was released in 2006.

Those processors couldn't run Vista very well, but they can run Win7 perfectly fine.

Windows 8 is promised to not only run on every piece of hardware going back to the Vista days, but it'll run faster than Windows 7 does, which itself ran faster than Vista.


There's absolutely no reason to cut x86 support out of Windows 8.
 
I am shocked that people still complain about UAC. It's like ubuntus key chain and apples password for everything had been forgotten but not UAC. those Apple ads should get an award or something.
 
I am shocked that people still complain about UAC. It's like ubuntus key chain and apples password for everything had been forgotten but not UAC. those Apple ads should get an award or something.

Though it generally doesn't bother me, I've seen UAC prompt for just running an already installed program, rather than for initial installation or changes to the software like the OS X security
 
UAC in Vista was a completely different beast from UAC in Win7. Between the two OS releases, there were a ton of bugs fixed to reduce superfluous UAC prompts, repeated prompts, and they were reworded and redesigned to be at least a bit more helpful.

It was rightfully hated in Vista. It wasn't helpful at all, and gave people a false sense of security since they'd just train themselves to click through them regardless of what they said.
 
UAC in Vista was a completely different beast from UAC in Win7. Between the two OS releases, there were a ton of bugs fixed to reduce superfluous UAC prompts, repeated prompts, and they were reworded and redesigned to be at least a bit more helpful.

It was rightfully hated in Vista. It wasn't helpful at all, and gave people a false sense of security since they'd just train themselves to click through them regardless of what they said.
Yea I hated it in vista. But then again i only used vista for a year. And even then the first thing i did was turn it off.
 
Anyone having problems with devices disappearing after coming back from sleep mode? My Hauppauge HVR-1800 "disconnects" when I come back from sleep mode. Works fine as long as I don't put the computer to sleep.

I've tried switching PCIE slots, using MS and Hauppauge provided drivers and nothing seems to keep it there. This is a new system, but it worked fine with Windows 7.
 
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http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-8-desktop-metro-style-screenshots-leak

http://winunleaked.info/threads/219-Windows-8-Pre-RTM-and-his-Metro-UI?p=5701
 
Good grief that looks awful. They have tons more work to do.

The person who took those shots obviously has zero taste, was just showing the most garish options possible or didn't care. With a nice abstract desktop and some tasteful colour choices it will look pretty nice.

I love the minimalist design style, this is a further move away from the old Aero look.
 
It's really just the vista style icons they need to dump, and to make the borders around the windows smaller. They removed the ability to adjust it without registry hacks for some reason.
 
The person who took those shots obviously has zero taste, was just showing the most garish options possible or didn't care. With a nice abstract desktop and some tasteful colour choices it will look pretty nice.

I love the minimalist design style, this is a further move away from the old Aero look.

They should annihilate every single one of those icons if they want to start enforcing Metro aesthetics.
 
I am shocked that people still complain about UAC. It's like ubuntus key chain and apples password for everything had been forgotten but not UAC. those Apple ads should get an award or something.

And those suck too. I disable them all (if I had an Apple product, I would there too. If it lets you..if not I wouldn't use it).


What is MS going to do with system32 and SysWOW64. Both are confusing as it is. With ARM and whatnot, even more.
 
yeah that is the skydrive desktop app. you can download it here https://apps.live.com/skydrive
oh wow, i didn't know about this. its awesome.
And those suck too. I disable them all (if I had an Apple product, I would there too. If it lets you..if not I wouldn't use it).
its not so much about UAC or keychains or w/e. i just wish people would realize that this thread isn't a "circle jerk" yes i understand some people get frustrated and they let the frustration lead to misdirected anger, but don't act like someone is making you use windows. i ve tried OSX and Ubuntu and Kubuntu and Fedora.. etc. but i just didn't like the other OS's as much as i like windows. OSX came in second place and if it wasn't for the price i would buy a macbook in a heart beat (and install windows, best of both). its not like i like metro, in fact i am probably not even gonna buy windows 8 until i get a tablet/laptop hybrid, but i am not gonna act like an ass about it. i am more excited about the hardware that's gonna come with windows 8 rather than windows 8 it self.
 
I restarted my machine and got a new Metro tile for Chrome. Nothing fancy. Just the logo but properly sized this time around.

I don't really see what info could go into a live-tile, honestly.
 
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