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[dLMN8R]

The machines offered to us Microsoft employees to choose from were the:

-Dell XPS 12
-ASUS Zenbook Prime Touch
-Lenovo X1 Carbon Touch


I chose the XPS 12, which is really nice. Has a good keyboard, excellent screen, decent trackpad (with issues), and I'm using the flip-to-tablet mode pretty often. The flipping behavior is very sturdy and "feels" great. It's of course a very heavy tablet, but that doesn't matter when it's on my lap or I'm on a plane. It's a lot thinner and lighter than I thought it would be from pictures.

I have plenty of coworkers who instead chose the ASUS or Lenovo, and both have their pros and cons. The Lenovo's keyboard is god-tier, but the screen is a matte TN panel that's lower resolution despite it being bigger (14" screen on a ~13.3" machine's bezel, btw). Its trackpad and touchpoint are also excellent.

The ASUS has a good keyboard much like the Dell's, but it's also around .4 lbs lighter than the two which may or may not matter to you. It also has the same great screen as the Dell, and a better trackpad than the dell. But of course it's a pure laptop, no tablet conversion.


I'd say all 3 of those are better choices than the Acer S7, but I'm not sure how prices differ.

 

[Izick]

The machines offered to us Microsoft employees to choose from were the:

-Dell XPS 12
-ASUS Zenbook Prime Touch
-Lenovo X1 Carbon Touch


I chose the XPS 12, which is really nice. Has a good keyboard, excellent screen, decent trackpad (with issues), and I'm using the flip-to-tablet mode pretty often. The flipping behavior is very sturdy and "feels" great. It's of course a very heavy tablet, but that doesn't matter when it's on my lap or I'm on a plane. It's a lot thinner and lighter than I thought it would be from pictures.

I have plenty of coworkers who instead chose the ASUS or Lenovo, and both have their pros and cons. The Lenovo's keyboard is god-tier, but the screen is a matte TN panel that's lower resolution despite it being bigger (14" screen on a ~13.3" machine's bezel, btw). Its trackpad and touchpoint are also excellent.

The ASUS has a good keyboard much like the Dell's, but it's also around .4 lbs lighter than the two which may or may not matter to you. It also has the same great screen as the Dell, and a better trackpad than the dell. But of course it's a pure laptop, no tablet conversion.


I'd say all 3 of those are better choices than the Acer S7, but I'm not sure how prices differ.

Would you pick that over any current laptop that doesn't have a touchscreen? I'm not against having a laptop with a touchscreen, but I don't need it, you know?

I just want something that's as fast as an Air, or faster; something that's in the same ballpark of weight.

 

[dLMN8R]

They make the laptop cost more, and in the case of the X1 Carbon, weigh more, so that's a decision you'd have to make.

I personally wouldn't ever want a laptop without touch anymore after using one for years (used to have the Lenovo x220 with Win7 before the Dell XPS 12), but can understand why others wouldn't care about it.

 

[Izick]

They make the laptop cost more, and in the case of the X1 Carbon, weigh more, so that's a decision you'd have to make.

I personally wouldn't ever want a laptop without touch anymore after using one for years (used to have the Lenovo x220 with Win7 before the Dell XPS 12), but can understand why others wouldn't care about it.

Any experience with the X1 Carbon? That looks pretty damn awesome.

 

[dLMN8R]

I was completely set on choosing it until I saw the TN screen that has some strange looks to it. It's just not a great screen unfortunately. But the keyboard and trackpoint/pad are perfect.

In retrospect, I might have picked it, not sure.

The X1 Carbon non-touch is .4-.5 lbs lighter and is just as nice - I'd absolutely recommend it if you don't care about touch.

 

[Chance Hale]

How do I fix the issue where xbox music will drop out to really low levels of volume in the desktop if it's not snapped? Seems to happen randomly and requires a restart.

 

[MCD]

How do I fix the issue where xbox music will drop out to really low levels of volume in the desktop if it's not snapped? Seems to happen randomly and requires a restart.

By dropping that POS and using Nokia Music.

 

[Izick]

I was completely set on choosing it until I saw the TN screen that has some strange looks to it. It's just not a great screen unfortunately. But the keyboard and trackpoint/pad are perfect.

In retrospect, I might have picked it, not sure.

The X1 Carbon non-touch is .4-.5 lbs lighter and is just as nice - I'd absolutely recommend it if you don't care about touch.

Do you really like touch that much? As someone who's not at the point where I'd consider a power user, is it still worth the extra dough if I just like browsing the web, watching videos, and maybe playing some very, very lite games? (like Shadowrun, Broken Age, Torment, etc.)

 

[campfireweekend]

Do you really like touch that much? As someone who's not at the point where I'd consider a power user, is it still worth the extra dough if I just like browsing the web, watching videos, and maybe playing some very, very lite games? (like Shadowrun, Broken Age, Torment, etc.)

Not too sure about those others things, but I find using touch for scrolling to be super intuitive, to the point that I mistakenly try to touch my monitor on my desktop. Like the other guy said, its actually a beneficial augmentation and makes windows 8 an absolute joy to use. For the windows 8 gestures alone the touch screen is worth it. IMO of course.

 

[Chance Hale]

By dropping that POS and using Nokia Music.

:O I actually like xbox music for the most part, has all of the albums I want and the streaming quality is excellent with the option to download.

There'a desktop version of the Nokia app?

 

[MCD]

Nope.

I'd like it too if it displayed my embedded album arts which Nokia Music never fails to do.

Xbox Music is so random.

 

[venne]

:O I actually like xbox music for the most part, has all of the albums I want and the streaming quality is excellent with the option to download.

There'a desktop version of the Nokia app?

http://conversations.nokia.com/2013/04/05/nokia-music-strikes-a-chord-on-windows-8/

If you are not a Nokia Music+ subscriber you are limited to 30 second clips of music, so it's pretty pointless without a sub.

 

[derFeef]

"You have to go through Metro if you want to access some system settings"
I wish such kind of bullshit would stop. It's just plain wrong but I read that very often in comments etc.

 

[zou]

How have I never heard of Microsoft's Wedge keyboard before? Easily the nicest and most practical stand/keyboard combo. Thinkpad Tablet 2 plus keyboard is epic. Was dead set on the Haswell surface refresh before, now I'm trending towards the next Thinkpad tablet. And I'm still impressed by how well the battery holds up and how well the ancient cpu performs: Easily faster than anything Apple had to offer and having access to a full pc imo is THE killer app.

Suffice to say, I'm pretty happy with my purchase

 

[LukasTaves]

On ios you have a "shortcut" for getting at the top of pages and lists (touching the top status bar)... Any similar touch gesture for metro ie?

 

[dLMN8R]

Do you really like touch that much? As someone who's not at the point where I'd consider a power user, is it still worth the extra dough if I just like browsing the web, watching videos, and maybe playing some very, very lite games? (like Shadowrun, Broken Age, Torment, etc.)

It's hard to say. If it was, say, $50 more expensive? No-brainer. But $200? Very difficult.

On a regular laptop it's not like you're going to use touch to play casual touch games, because that would require holding your arm out all the time. But for normal usage - web browser scrolling, tapping a button quickly, zooming/panning effortlessly, etc - it's a nice addition.

 

[Izick]

It's hard to say. If it was, say, $50 more expensive? No-brainer. But $200? Very difficult.

On a regular laptop it's not like you're going to use touch to play casual touch games, because that would require holding your arm out all the time. But for normal usage - web browser scrolling, tapping a button quickly, zooming/panning effortlessly, etc - it's a nice addition.

Cool, thank you. I'm going to take all this in consideration when I finally get the cash together to buy one of these.

---------------------------

On a side note, is anyone here really excited to see what Microsoft does with Windows integration on the next-Xbox? We've been hearing all these rumors that all sound very interesting; I'm curious to see how much it ties into the Modern UI, the store, etc.

 

[megarockexe]

Windows in general has been playing back my MP3s incorrectly. On desktop, Windows Media Player lets me skip to, say, the end of the file, but yet the song hasn't skipped and it plays past the bounds. This also happens with Nokia Music on Windows Phone. It can't be a coincidence, right?

 

[LukasTaves]

So apparently Blue will have both search types: Mixing everything when using the search charm and like it is today when using win+f.

Searching from the charm won't overlay the screen completely, the results will appear on the right bar itself, so I guess that's why they are mixing the results there.

 

[MCD]

In Blue: Quicker Apps Access

Joe Belfiore is amused.

In Blue: Multi-PC App Uninstall

 

[maeh2k]

So apparently Blue will have both search types: Mixing everything when using the search charm and like it is today when using win+f.

Searching from the charm won't overlay the screen completely, the results will appear on the right bar itself, so I guess that's why they are mixing the results there.

If they do that (right) that should fix all the problems people have with the current search.

They should put a search button in the task bar instead of a start button that just leads to the start screen. Going to start is already easy and people should just learn the (very easy) corner action. A start button is redundant and less consistent (as Metro apps won't have the start button). Search would make sense, though. Because hitting Win to search is still going to bring up the full-screen start-screen (which some people don't like). So you'd have to know the short-cut or use the charms to bring up the search menu on the desktop. A button in place of the start button to bring up the search would allow single-action access to the search.


Edit: actually, I'd like it if they made another corner action: bring up the search by clicking the top-right corner (the same way the bottom-left corner works for start-screen access). Invisible controls are awesome and the power users (i.e. the people constantly bitching now) would adapt to them.

Unless, of course, there's something better they could put in the top-right corner. Such as OS X's Expose working with both Metro and Desktop applications.

 

[LukasTaves]

W8/RT has allegedly 7.5% of the tablet market in the first quarter of the year.

http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsoft-owns-75-tablet-market-windows-8-and-windows-rt

That's pretty incredible for a first full quarter if true.

 

[JaggedSac]

On a side note, is anyone here really excited to see what Microsoft does with Windows integration on the next-Xbox? We've been hearing all these rumors that all sound very interesting; I'm curious to see how much it ties into the Modern UI, the store, etc.

I am very interested to see what they do with that.

 

[brotkasten]

W8/RT has allegedly 7.5% of the tablet market in the first quarter of the year.

http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsoft-owns-75-tablet-market-windows-8-and-windows-rt

That's pretty incredible for a first full quarter if true.

I'm actually a bit surprised by that, considering the bad word of mouth, limited availability of tablets at launch, lack of apps and the much higher price, compared to other tablets.

 

[kharma45]

W8/RT has allegedly 7.5% of the tablet market in the first quarter of the year.

http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsoft-owns-75-tablet-market-windows-8-and-windows-rt

That's pretty incredible for a first full quarter if true.

Damn, didn't expect them to do so well relatively.

 

[everthustodeadbeats]

W8/RT has allegedly 7.5% of the tablet market in the first quarter of the year.

http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsoft-owns-75-tablet-market-windows-8-and-windows-rt

That's pretty incredible for a first full quarter if true.

Not sure it will bear out for the next quarter. The people that wanted a Surface pretty much got their Surface. Would expect it to sink well below 5% in the next quarter.

 

[LukasTaves]

If they do that (right) that should fix all the problems people have with the current search.

They should put a search button in the task bar instead of a start button that just leads to the start screen. Going to start is already easy and people should just learn the (very easy) corner action. A start button is redundant and less consistent (as Metro apps won't have the start button). Search would make sense, though. Because hitting Win to search is still going to bring up the full-screen start-screen (which some people don't like). So you'd have to know the short-cut or use the charms to bring up the search menu on the desktop. A button in place of the start button to bring up the search would allow single-action access to the search.


Edit: actually, I'd like it if they made another corner action: bring up the search by clicking the top-right corner (the same way the bottom-left corner works for start-screen access). Invisible controls are awesome and the power users (i.e. the people constantly bitching now) would adapt to them.

Unless, of course, there's something better they could put in the top-right corner. Such as OS X's Expose working with both Metro and Desktop applications.

Yeah, they should really explore all the 4 corners. I guess top left for switching apps, lower left for start, top right for search and lower right for settings (or that expose like you suggested) would cover all the bases very well.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Not sure it will bear out for the next quarter. The people that wanted a Surface pretty much got their Surface. Would expect it to sink well below 5% in the next quarter.

Except that it had been sold in limited regions/outlets for quite some time. I myself am waiting for the next iteration.

 

[Jobiensis]

Invisible controls are awesome and the power users (i.e. the people constantly bitching now) would adapt to them.

Invisible controls are a pretty awful example of UI. The corners are a pain for power users that use RDP, VMs or multiple monitors.

 

[Lynn616]

W8/RT has allegedly 7.5% of the tablet market in the first quarter of the year.

http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsoft-owns-75-tablet-market-windows-8-and-windows-rt

That's pretty incredible for a first full quarter if true.

Will increase if MS can get some 8" devices out and add in pen support too.

 

[brotkasten]

Will increase if MS can get some 8" devices out and add in pen support too.

Pen has been part of Windows since Vista (and XP Tablet PC Edition before that). 8" devices are a sure bet as well. Now to combine both, that's up to the manufacturers.

 

[Izick]

Do any of you use Winodws Phone? Does using that in tow with Windows 8 provide a lot of benefits? I was thinking about finally pick up a smart-phone, and it's down to either a Lumia or a HTC One. Seeing as I planned to pick up a new laptop (with Windows 8) some time down the road, I figured maybe a phone with Windows integration would be best.

What would you all suggest?

 

[campfireweekend]

Do any of you use Winodws Phone? Does using that in tow with Windows 8 provide a lot of benefits? I was thinking about finally pick up a smart-phone, and it's down to either a Lumia or a HTC One. Seeing as I planned to pick up a new laptop (with Windows 8) some time down the road, I figured maybe a phone with Windows integration would be best.

What would you all suggest?

How invested are you in Microsoft's ecosystem? Are you an avid user of SkyDrive, Skype, outlook calendar and Xbox music? If you use those services, everything between your PC and your phone will sync seamlessly. If you have Xbox music pass, all your songs will automatically be on your phone, and if you're big on Xbox gaming, your gamerscore will sync and you'll be able to get achievements in games on windows phone. Like I said previously, its really only a good value proposition if you use a lot of microsoft's services. If you're more of google guy, using google drive, docs and the like, then the HTC wins hands down, as apps for those services are nowhere to be found on the windows phone platform (and likely won't be for a while with the way google treats windows phone as a whole.

 

[brotkasten]

Do any of you use Winodws Phone? Does using that in tow with Windows 8 provide a lot of benefits? I was thinking about finally pick up a smart-phone, and it's down to either a Lumia or a HTC One. Seeing as I planned to pick up a new laptop (with Windows 8) some time down the road, I figured maybe a phone with Windows integration would be best.

What would you all suggest?

Both are great phones and if you like the UI, I'd suggest to buy the Lumia, but there won't be any benefits. Some cross-compatibility is coming later this fall, with Windows 8.1 and the respective Windows Phone update.

 

[Steelyuhas]

In Blue: Quicker Apps Access

Joe Belfiore is amused.

In Blue: Multi-PC App Uninstall

lol yeah well Joe can return the favor by embracing taping on an app from your Start Screen resumes the app instead of restarting it from scratch by default.

W8/RT has allegedly 7.5% of the tablet market in the first quarter of the year.

http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsoft-owns-75-tablet-market-windows-8-and-windows-rt

That's pretty incredible for a first full quarter if true.

Yeah that's actually pretty impressive, especially given some of the things brot mentioned.

 

[Izick]

How invested are you in Microsoft's ecosystem? Are you an avid user of SkyDrive, Skype, outlook calendar and Xbox music? If you use those services, everything between your PC and your phone will sync seamlessly. If you have Xbox music pass, all your songs will automatically be on your phone, and if you're big on Xbox gaming, your gamerscore will sync and you'll be able to get achievements in games on windows phone. Like I said previously, its really only a good value proposition if you use a lot of microsoft's services. If you're more of google guy, using google drive, docs and the like, then the HTC wins hands down, as apps for those services are nowhere to be found on the windows phone platform (and likely won't be for a while with the way google treats windows phone as a whole.

I really don't use any of those types of features besides some Xbox stuff, and some light Google Docs stuff, but I could see myself doing so in the future. For me I can really be swayed either way since I'm not really invested into anything, I could check the benefits and flaws of each side of services.

Both are great phones and if you like the UI, I'd suggest to buy the Lumia, but there won't be any benefits. Some cross-compatibility is coming later this fall, with Windows 8.1 and the respective Windows Phone update.

So you're saying the Lumia is better just on its own merit?

 

[brotkasten]

So you're saying the Lumia is better just on its own merit?

No, I was saying that if you already like the Metro design language/user interface used in both operating systems, then it would make sense to pick the Lumia. You'd have a consistent look across your devices.

 

[campfireweekend]

I really don't use any of those types of features besides some Xbox stuff, and some light Google Docs stuff, but I could see myself doing so in the future. For me I can really be swayed either way since I'm not really invested into anything, I could check the benefits and flaws of each side of services.



So you're saying the Lumia is better just on its own merit?

Instead of google docs in windows phone, you get straight office integration. When coupling that with SkyDrive, all pictures you take on your phone will automatically be uploaded to your PC, and all your documents on your PC will be viewable and editable on your phone.

I think Brot is purely referring to how much better the UI on windows phone is than android. If you have a love for design, minimalism and simplicity, then Lumia is the obvious choice. The specs are lower on the Lumia however. No 1080p screen, less ram, less GHz. If you love bleeding edge tech, the only thing more advanced on the Lumia is the camera (if you go 920). The windows phone OS runs much smoother than android with less glaring "unfortunately (insert app here) has stopped working" error reports popping up. Being your first smartphone, you won't notice the relative lack of apps on the windows phone platform. In fact, windows phone's simplicity is designed with the first time smartphone user in mind. I've used both android, iOS and windows phone (currently own a 920)and despite the platform's shortcomings, I can't imagine switching to anything else currently.

 

[Izick]

No, I was saying that if you already like the Metro design language/user interface used in both operating systems, then it would make sense to pick the Lumia. You'd have a consistent look across your devices.

I really do like the Modern UI. I really liked the look of it when I was using the Windows 8 Beta, but it never felt all that functional because I was just using a standard trackpad laptop, no touch.

Instead of google docs in windows phone, you get straight office integration. When coupling that with SkyDrive, all pictures you take on your phone will automatically be uploaded to your PC, and all your documents on your PC will be viewable and editable on your phone.

I think Brot is purely referring to how much better the UI on windows phone is than android. If you have a love for design, minimalism and simplicity, then Lumia is the obvious choice. The specs are lower on the Lumia however. No 1080p screen, less ram, less GHz. If you love bleeding edge tech, the only thing more advanced on the Lumia is the camera (if you go 920). The windows phone OS runs much smoother than android with less glaring "unfortunately (insert app here) has stopped working" error reports popping up. Being your first smartphone, you won't notice the relative lack of apps on the windows phone platform. In fact, windows phone's simplicity is designed with the first time smartphone user in mind. I've used both android, iOS and windows phone (currently own a 920)and despite the platform's shortcomings, I can't imagine switching to anything else currently.

Interesting. Thank you for the advice. My only real concern would be them abandoning the WP platform. How is that doing, sales wise? I always see people saying there aren't enough people buying Window Phones, but I'm not sure if that's people being phone-fanboys are what. Is there any real possibility this could all cave in and Microsoft abandons the platform in the near future? (i.e. 3-5 years from now?)

 

[JaggedSac]

Invisible controls are a pretty awful example of UI. The corners are a pain for power users that use RDP, VMs or multiple monitors.

For touch and those with limited screen space, they are great.

 

[maeh2k]

Interesting. Thank you for the advice. My only real concern would be them abandoning the WP platform. How is that doing, sales wise? I always see people saying there aren't enough people buying Window Phones, but I'm not sure if that's people being phone-fanboys are what. Is there any real possibility this could all cave in and Microsoft abandons the platform in the near future? (i.e. 3-5 years from now?)

Five years is a long time. The iPhone's only been out six years. A lot could happen in that time.

However, Microsoft will not abandon Windows Phone anytime soon. They very much want to be present in the mobile space. As Windows Phone moves closer and closer towards Windows (already same kernel; working on cross-platform apps) there'll be less incentive for them to drop Windows Phone. Besides, you don't need a huge market share to turn a profit. Even if it's doing badly compared to Android, Microsoft still has a product that sells 20+ million units a year.

 

[stktt]

Search for "fanfinity" in the store.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Search for "fanfinity" in the store.

 

[kitch9]

Not sure it will bear out for the next quarter. The people that wanted a Surface pretty much got their Surface. Would expect it to sink well below 5% in the next quarter.

I want a Surface.

Just not one of the first ones.

 

[enzo_gt]

I want a Surface.

Just not one of the first ones.

Yup. Definitely like MS' idea of where to take the tablet platform more than their competitor's.

I just hope it survives long enough for when I actually can purchase one.

 

[Wiktor]

Not sure it will bear out for the next quarter. The people that wanted a Surface pretty much got their Surface. Would expect it to sink well below 5% in the next quarter.

There is a lot of people who are interested in other devices that are holding off because most of the current hardware is pretty bad. People who like RT will likely stick to Surface, but for W8 a lot should change once Haswell hits.

 

[Jzero]

Search for "fanfinity" in the store.

 

[Izick]

I want a Surface.

Just not one of the first ones.

Me too. I could see myself passing on these hybrid tablets and waiting for one.

Just hearing that they're bringing out a thinner, backlit type-cover is a nice sign of things to come.

 

[Izick]

From last page:

I want a Surface.

Just not one of the first ones.

Me too. I could see myself passing on these hybrid tablets and waiting for one.

Just hearing that they're bringing out a thinner, backlit type-cover is a nice sign of things to come.

-------------------------------

Also, what the hell is the "fanfity" thing? I don't have access to the W8 store right now, but I'm curious after seeing these strange responses.

 

[stktt]

From last page:



Me too. I could see myself passing on these hybrid tablets and waiting for one.

Just hearing that they're bringing out a thinner, backlit type-cover is a nice sign of things to come.

-------------------------------

Also, what the hell is the "fanfity" thing? I don't have access to the W8 store right now, but I'm curious after seeing these strange responses.

200 reskinned "get updates on *insert artist*!" apps from the same developer.