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Windows 8 Tablets/Laptops/Laplets Cross Shopping Thread of Most Confusing Launch |OT|

popeutlal

Member
You can buy the Samsung from Staples. The others are not available.
Out of stock in my area and online, so the Samsung Ativ was shipped (it has 7 reviews on Amazon). The shipments were have to be a tiny amount as very few people have it and it's not available to buy anywhere.

Windows 8 hardware launch is horrible. Microsoft remakes Windows for touch....but there is no hardware on the market that you can buy for it, Microsoft must be feeling proud.
 

tino

Banned
Out of stock in my area and online, so the Samsung Ativ was shipped (it has 7 reviews on Amazon). The shipments were have to be a tiny amount as very few people have it and it's not available to buy anywhere.

Windows 8 hardware launch is horrible. Microsoft remakes Windows for touch....but there is no hardware on the market that you can buy for it, Microsoft must be feeling proud.

Microsoft don't have credibility in the mobile business, that's why they don't get good hardware. The ARM tablet was going to use Snapdragon S4, but they changed to Tegra3 later because Qualcomm don't give a shit to the like of Microsoft (and Sony). As for the Atom tablets, I have a feeling intel haven't made enough of them.

If you want to know about the Samsung Ativ 500t, go read this thread

http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/sam...iv-smart-pc-500t-staples-review-purposes.html

These guys are hardcore pen users.
 

bobbytkc

ADD New Gen Gamer
Hey guys, as mentioned before on this thread, I bought the Samsung Ativ, and have been using it for 2 days. There hasn't been much coverage of the device, so I thought I would make a quick look video for those of you who are interested. If you have any questions on the device in general, please feel free to ask, but please don't ask me to perform any benchmarks and such, I am just not very interested in those kinds of things.

Samsung Ativ Smart PC 500T1C Quick Look
 

ep85

Member
Hey guys, as mentioned before on this thread, I bought the Samsung Ativ, and have been using it for 2 days. There hasn't been much coverage of the device, so I thought I would make a quick look video for those of you who are interested. If you have any questions on the device in general, please feel free to ask, but please don't ask me to perform any benchmarks and such, I am just not very interested in those kinds of things.

Samsung Ativ Smart PC 500T1C Quick Look

thanks. fixed your link for you.
 

bobbytkc

ADD New Gen Gamer
Wait. The $600 tablet doesn't include the keyboard dck? WHA

I bought this In Singapore, and over here, only the more expensive i5 version of the ativ comes with the keyboard dock as default. I am not certain if this will be the same in other countries.
 

tino

Banned
Hey guys, as mentioned before on this thread, I bought the Samsung Ativ, and have been using it for 2 days. There hasn't been much coverage of the device, so I thought I would make a quick look video for those of you who are interested. If you have any questions on the device in general, please feel free to ask, but please don't ask me to perform any benchmarks and such, I am just not very interested in those kinds of things.

http://youtu.be/m0hXtmNtteo

You can't even run 2 browser tabs 50/50 on the screen? So basically impossible to play a youtube video and browse the forum at the same time.

This "snap" mode is broken. Fuck the snap mode. I am waiting for HP ElitePad 900.
 

bobbytkc

ADD New Gen Gamer
You can't even run 2 browser tabs 50/50 on the screen? So basically impossible to play a youtube video and browse the forum at the same time.

This "snap" mode is broken. Fuck the snap mode. I am waiting for HP ElitePad 900.

Not really, you can just open two browsers in desktop mode, and it will work the same as on Windows 7. The problem only occurs when you want to split a desktop app with a Metro app. This si a problem with windows 8, Samsung really didn't do anything to modify it. I am not sure why Microsoft designed the OS like that though.
 

tino

Banned
Not really, you can just open two browsers in desktop mode, and it will work the same as on Windows 7. The problem only occurs when you want to split a desktop app with a Metro app. This si a problem with windows 8, Samsung really didn't do anything to modify it. I am not sure why Microsoft designed the OS like that though.


HP pad has desktop mode just like everything else. It just doesn't have snap mode. As you can see snap mode is pretty useless.

BTW, watch youtube on top of browser is so much easier on Android than Windows 7. On android I just need to install stickit. On w7 I have to install browser popup hack and an always on top hack. And I just discovered new Chrome broke the youtube pop up hack.
 

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
Man the lack of ATIV PC Pro availability info is so frustrating, was really hoping to get one before December but chances seem slim right now. Seems like all the pre-order websites are just guessing.
 
In Windows 8 or the Tablet, how do I switch from the Metro UI to the regular desktop UI?

I saw couple at the stores around but haven't figured out a way to do it.
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
Hey guys, as mentioned before on this thread, I bought the Samsung Ativ, and have been using it for 2 days. There hasn't been much coverage of the device, so I thought I would make a quick look video for those of you who are interested. If you have any questions on the device in general, please feel free to ask, but please don't ask me to perform any benchmarks and such, I am just not very interested in those kinds of things.

Samsung Ativ Smart PC 500T1C Quick Look
good overview. how is the battery life on the device? I believe they have claimed around 8 hrs. Also i assumed all of the basic metro games work fine, it looked like whatever gsme you loaded up ran smooth. And you only showed a little bit of desktop performance but it looked like everything loaded fairly fast which is good.

fyi: there is a metro version of onenote in the store.
 

bobbytkc

ADD New Gen Gamer
good overview. how is the battery life on the device? I believe they have claimed around 8 hrs. Also i assumed all of the basic metro games work fine, it looked like whatever gsme you loaded up ran smooth. And you only showed a little bit of desktop performance but it looked like everything loaded fairly fast which is good.

fyi: there is a metro version of onenote in the store.

I believe the official figures from Samsung is 13.5hrs for the Atom version, and 8 hours for the i5 version. So people looking at the pro versions will have to consider this. So far, I am satisfied with the battery life, but I really have no idea how accurate the official figures are.

As an aside, I've tried out the pro version at the store, and it is nice, but do that note that the additional performance of the i5 chip comes at the cost of increased weight, lower battery life (the atom version has approx. 70% more battery life, from the official figures), and significantly more heat.
 
So atm, what is the hottest i5 hybrid thingy?

yoga looks pretty hot, but the split harddrive sounds kinda iffy, and gizmodo doesn't seem to like the trackpad :X
 

tino

Banned
I believe the official figures from Samsung is 13.5hrs for the Atom version, and 8 hours for the i5 version. So people looking at the pro versions will have to consider this. So far, I am satisfied with the battery life, but I really have no idea how accurate the official figures are.

As an aside, I've tried out the pro version at the store, and it is nice, but do that note that the additional performance of the i5 chip comes at the cost of increased weight, lower battery life (the atom version has approx. 70% more battery life, from the official figures), and significantly more heat.


Do you think you can do a battery test and find out the real life battery life?
 
You can't even run 2 browser tabs 50/50 on the screen? So basically impossible to play a youtube video and browse the forum at the same time.

This "snap" mode is broken. Fuck the snap mode. I am waiting for HP ElitePad 900.

Not really, you can just open two browsers in desktop mode, and it will work the same as on Windows 7. The problem only occurs when you want to split a desktop app with a Metro app. This si a problem with windows 8, Samsung really didn't do anything to modify it. I am not sure why Microsoft designed the OS like that though.

The design of snap is based on the principle of always allowing a developer make assumptions that allow them to create a consistent experience for the user. Your application is always guaranteed the bulk of the resources in 3/4 view and full screen and in the 1/4 snap view; your app is guaranteed a fixed pixel width. An application can never force the user's view into snap view but can opt to take full screen over 3/4 view. I heard them say that their data showed that people really used split view on the desktop (I use it from time to time myself). The whole resource argument is probably the most powerful one from a consumer perspective and from a development perspective, dealing with limited and well-defined defined interface footprint scenarios allows the designer to focus more on user experience.

Also, the reason I think you cannot switch to metro from desktop IE is because, I believe, desktop IE is less restrictive in that you are not sandboxed and have access to more resources in the system. Metro IE, like all other Metro apps, is sandboxed. Notice how you are always asked for permissions when you attempt to access certain resources in metro but rarely ever on desktop. The basic principle is you can move from more secure to less secure and still maintain functionality but not the other way around. The user experience would be much worse if you switched from desktop IE to metro IE and your web page stops working because you didn't have access to a resource in the sandbox that the desktop has.

Why is it sandbox you ask? It’s because the internet is full of ass-hats.
 

tino

Banned
So you are telling me on a 23" all in one system, you can still only do 3/4 + 1/4 split on the the snap mode? Seriously?
 
So you are telling me on a 23" all in one system, you can still only do 3/4 + 1/4 split on the the snap mode? Seriously?

Yes but you're missing the point however. If you are on a 23 inch system and you want to use your pixel space to cram in all the applications you could possibly divide your attention between then that's the sort of experience the desktop facilitates. If you want a focused experience delivered by a metro app where the developer knows exactly how much of the screen they have to cater to you then the devs need to be allowed certain assumptions to make that possible.
 

strata8

Member
tino how can you make a thread about Windows 8 devices without knowing the basics of Windows 8? This isn't the first time you've flipped out over some feature that you've had misconceptions about.
 

tino

Banned
tino how can you make a thread about Windows 8 devices without knowing the basics of Windows 8? This isn't the first time you've flipped out over some feature that you've had misconceptions about.

Well the 3/4 1/4 thing is news to me. If the tablet can do 1/2+1/2, I will consider it has better touch UI interface than a 10" android tablet. But without it I think its a very rough implementation.

I am a defender of Atom tablets. I don't mind shitting on the RT tablet form time to time but I try to limit it to only this thread. It's not fair to call my argument "flip out" its a valid argument.

edit: and you calling my argument "misconceptions "? That's going to the drama direction and I don't want to go there. Let's put it this way. I only care about what hack I need to install to fix this snap mode behavior.
 

PSGames

Junior Member
Yes but you're missing the point however. If you are on a 23 inch system and you want to use your pixel space to cram in all the applications you could possibly divide your attention between then that's the sort of experience the desktop facilitates. If you want a focused experience delivered by a metro app where the developer knows exactly how much of the screen they have to cater to you then the devs need to be allowed certain assumptions to make that possible.

Lets be honest here it would be trivial for devs to code a half screen ratio for their apps. Reorganizing an app for a third of the screen actually takes more work than resizing it for half the screen. MS should mandate all apps have 4 ratios. Full, 3/4, 1/2 and 1/4.
 

Totakeke

Member
Putting aside that Metro isn't meant to use the standard Windows paradigm, the only real reason you'd want half/half is when you're comparing two similar things. Other than that the use case for half half isn't as much.

If you like your Metro to be all funky anyway, you can always use Toolbox.

WGz7e.jpg

ifGrQ.jpg


http://apps.microsoft.com/webpdp/en...indows-8/70e5e6af-017c-47e4-923b-db71bd9110ba
 

PSGames

Junior Member
Putting aside that Metro isn't meant to use the standard Windows paradigm, the only real reason you'd want half/half is when you're comparing two similar things. Other than that the use case for half half isn't as much.

If you like your Metro to be all funky anyway, you can always use Toolbox.

http://i.imgur.com/WGz7e.jpg
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ifGrQ.jpg

[url]http://apps.microsoft.com/webpdp/en-us/app/toolbox-for-windows-8/70e5e6af-017c-47e4-923b-db71bd9110ba[/url][/QUOTE]

Toolbox is cool but it would be better if I could do it with every app. What if I want to research on the browser while writing a paper at the same time? One of these programs only getting 1/4 of the screen isn't ideal.
 

Kamek

Member
Posted this in the OT but didn't get a reply. Maybe someone here can help? Running the Upgrade Assistant on my brand new Lenovo Y580 and every time I get to the Payment info Screen it hangs there after I put in my information and it won't continue even when I press "next". Does anyone know why this is?
 
Well the 3/4 1/4 thing is news to me. If the tablet can do 1/2 1/2, it will consider it has better UI interface than a 10" android tablet. But without it I think its a very rough implementation.

I am a defender of Atom tablets. I don't mind shit on the RT tablet form time to time but I try to limit to only this thread. It's not fair to call my argument "flip out" its a valid argument.

edit: and you calling my argument "misconceptions "? That's going to the drama direction and I don't want to go there. Let's put it this way. I only care about what hack I need to install to fix this snap mode behavior.

Many people don't even know Windows 8 is out. Hell, many American citizens don't even know the running mates of the president and the incumbent. I guess what I'm saying is that it's not surprising to me that you didn't know about snap view even though it's talked about in every review and is in so many commercials because you may have not read the reviews or seen most of the commercials. You may have even forgotten. I'm actually not being patronizing because I don't own or watch Television and the general going-ons of the world tend to pass me by unless it comes across a data stream that has my attention. This is probably why ad campaigns inundate us with info and sometimes even with that great and often annoying effort, they still manage to fail.

The first generation of the split view Android tablets proved to be buggy according to many reviews, assuming this has been refined, I don't even know if this is part of core Android OS or is an add-in hack but it'll probably always remain something a majority of devs never designed for. I think the use-case for things that are designed for will always work better than the use case that are forced to work a certain way. I was going to say it was narrow minded to want a 50/50 view for your use case of watching video and browsing the web but I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to come up with other use cases that satisfy that but do they strike the balance when a majority of content consumption experiences is primarily a solo affair? Of course not but that's a generalized conclusion. You live a life where 50/50 seems to be the most important thing for you and in that context, snap view doesn't seem to work for you. Knowing about it now might have saved you the mistake of getting a Windows 8 tablet especially if Android offers the experience you want. I imagine the market will eventually start seeing some x86 Android tablets. You may want to look into what Ubuntu mobile OS is cooking up for more alternatives.
 

tino

Banned
I use half and half on my w7 Netbook all the time. Windows+left and Windows+right. In fact that's the only feature I wish Windows XP have.
 

Totakeke

Member
Toolbox is cool but it would be better if I could do it with every app. What if I want to research on the browser while writing a paper at the same time? One of these programs only getting 1/4 of the screen isn't ideal.

Ideal for you, but less ideal for from a development perspective. Metro is based very strongly on layouts and some things just look wrong if you just cut it to half without any adjustments.

Can they do it? Sure. But this is just pointless arguing anyway. They've decided to do 1/4, thus it is 1/4 whether you like it or not. Maybe it'll change in the future? Who knows.


You can still do 1/2 1/2 in Desktop. You won't be doing a lot of complicated multi-window stuff in Metro anyway.
 
Posted this in the OT but didn't get a reply. Maybe someone here can help? Running the Upgrade Assistant on my brand new Lenovo Y580 and every time I get to the Payment info Screen it hangs there after I put in my information and it won't continue even when I press "next". Does anyone know why this is?

Hey... I did respond to you :p

I experienced the same thing. It turns out that my address had a mistake so it didn't match the information associated with my credit card. Moral of the story is to make sure that your other screens has all the information and that your information matches what's on your credit card billing address.
 

Kamek

Member
Hey... I did respond to you :p

I experienced the same thing. It turns out that my address had a mistake so it didn't match the information associated with my credit card. Moral of the story is to make sure that your other screens has all the information and that your information matches what's on your credit card billing address.

My apologies, bro. The thing is, I've done that and everything seems to match up. I feel so sad :( that nothing is working. M$ said to try again in a few hours yesterday, so I did again today to no avail. I would at least think they'd sent me to a payment confirmation screen where I can apply the rebate code, but I don't even get that far. Just to the CC area.
 
My apologies, bro. The thing is, I've done that and everything seems to match up. I feel so sad :( that nothing is working. M$ said to try again in a few hours yesterday, so I did again today to no avail. I would at least think they'd sent me to a payment confirmation screen where I can apply the rebate code, but I don't even get that far. Just to the CC area.

Sorry to hear that. It's sucks that they didn't just take your money over the phone and comp you a free download code or something. Hope you work it out.
 

Tacitus_

Member
Bah, looks like the Samsung Smart PC is the only hybrid that's made it to the shops here based on their web stores (@ 879€). I could always order something else from somewhere else in the EU but I really want to feel the device in my own hands before making a decision.
 
Bah, looks like the Samsung Smart PC is the only hybrid that's made it to the shops here based on their web stores (@ 879€). I could always order something else from somewhere else in the EU but I really want to feel the device in my own hands before making a decision.

Yeah I just noticed that. However the price for it is the same I would have to pay for Slate 7 (in the US) so I will not buy it unless it is on sale next year. Hopefully that happens soon. Despite the super high price the keyboard is included at least. I remember someone was skeptical about that with the European release.
 

Anony

Member
@ bobbytkc

how is the screen? i'm worried about pen + screen scratches
any indication of that happening? you planning on buying a screen protector or case?
 
Went to my local Sony Centre to try out the Sony Duo. Not sure of the specs this unit had, as it said i7 and 256GB on the sales card, but the memory showed barely 100GB, so take in mind this could be a mixed spec machine I tested. Chances are they’re selling the high spec unit only, but the display unit may be a made up spec.

Disclaimer: I write for Sony, but in the PlayStation division (we don’t really talk to the Electronics guys across town). There’s no real bias here, as I have no stake in the machine’s success, nor am I important enough to influence anyone in such a way (outside or inside the company). And no, I can’t get a machine for free (I don’t even get PlayStations for free despite working with them every day), which is why I had to take a trip to Tottenham Court Road to try one out.

Right, impressions:

- First impressions weren’t great, as it was in keyboard formation but the screen seemed locked in horizontal formation. A glitch which corrected itself once I slid it back into tablet form, and after that the accelerometer worked fine. But after I read a review saying this happened with their pre-prod unit, it wasn’t the best of starts.

- It’s a tad too heavy for a tablet, as expected. You likely won’t be holding this with one hand for too long without wrist support. It’s still comfortable enough with two hands, but you’re not going to be holding it like a sketch/notepad out and about (although I’m not sure many people do that with their tablets?)

- In keyboard formation, it weighed about the same as my beloved Samsung NC10 (which I’m trying to replace with a hybrid device).

- The screen is glorious. Sharp as hell. I lowered the brightness a little from its max setting and it was still looking great. Full marks.

- The (backlit) keyboard was generally fine. For my spindly, ET-like fingers, it took a couple minutes to get used to (due to the small dimensions and pressure change for the keystrokes – I kept missing ‘t’ for some reason at first), but after that period of adjustment I was typing fine. Not sure if cramp will eventually set in, but I was half way into my typical writing day, so the change from regular keyboard to this may have just been a bit too jarring.

- The optical nub/mouse nipple was also fine. I love trackpads, so wasn’t expecting to like this nub-thing (I hate them usually), but it works surprisingly well. Responsive and well placed when using it with the mouse buttons. I found editing a Word doc painless enough.

- The touchscreen was great. As with everything else, it was responsive, smooth and accurate. I actually found myself editing a Word doc with it instead of the optical nub at a few points. Although I doubt that will last in ‘real life’ day to day usage.

- The internet wasn’t connected, so couldn’t try that.

- No pen was available to try out, either. However, I did try the handwriting recognition with my pointy fingers and was pleasantly surprised that it got 4 out of 5 of my scraggly handwriting efforts correct. Genuinely impressed, but will save any praise for longer tests – however, in this case, thumbs up and could offer a nice alternative to the keyboard for writing.

- I opened up several windows at once and monkeyed around with their sizes and formations on the screen. After struggling with the snap, I got a half Word/half Explorer set up going, with another Explorer page underneath. Pleasing, given the Windows 8 arguments over screen division. Of course, they may run like sludge when the wi-fi is on, who knows. But I’m sure even an i3 could handle that okay.

- Didn’t get to test the video capabilities, sadly.

- In its keyboard formation, the unit was steady and didn’t tip over or show signed of rocking once, despite me becoming increasingly zealous with my typing to test out my typing speed.

- Battery life is still a worry. This unit was plugged in, but I’ve heard it lasts around 2 and a half hours running HD video and anything up to 5 to 6 hours light usage. Obviously this isn’t something I can test in a shop, but bizarrely the (expensive) battery slice wasn’t yet available for the machine. I’ve been told it barely adds any weight to it, but I’d want to try it for myself.

- No cases are available (in the UK at least) yet, either. But the shop attendant showed me a Vaio case which fitted perfectly. Bit expensive at £50, though. And it’s certainly not thin enough to be a ‘sleeve’ you can put the Duo in your carry bag or anything.

- On a similar front, it’s much thinner than you’d expect, given the keyboard. Obviously thicker than a regular tablet, but still fairly svelte, considering.

- And physically, it’s a looker. The exposed cables/wires underneath the screen in keyboard formation is a little bit of a worry, but there’s less space in there to get foreign objects accidently trapped than you’d think.

Overall, I’m actually impressed by it. The keyboard was better than expected and the touchscreen’s accuracy (and sheer vibrancy) reduced any worries about using Windows 8 or prolonged use.

My main concerns, aside from battery life, are the weight and the possible finger cramp, but it’s hard to work out if these will be significant problems in day to day use. At this stage, I’d be willing to take a gamble, but at the high price it’s certainly down to personal preference. I’d recommend people try it out if possible, though, as it surprised me in a good way.

Last side note: I went over the road to the Samsung shop and they didn’t even know what the Ativ Tab/Smart PC was. Sigh.
 

bobbytkc

ADD New Gen Gamer
Hey guys, I received some messages requesting that I run photoshop and some games on the Ativ, so I made a second, short video so that you guys can judge the performance yourself. Needless to say, people who would like to game on the device are better off getting the pro version, but to reiterate, the pro version has its own set of caveats, such as heavier weight, heat and battery life.

Samsung Ativ Smart PC 500T1C Quick Look Part 2 - Games and Photoshop

@ bobbytkc

how is the screen? i'm worried about pen + screen scratches
any indication of that happening? you planning on buying a screen protector or case?

I haven't had any indication that the pen will scratch the glass. The tip of the pen is not actually that sharp and is rounded and made of plastic, so I think it will be fine. I will probably not get a screen protector, and just buy a laptop sleeve to put it in.
 
Hey guys, I received some messages requesting that I run photoshop and some games on the Ativ, so I made a second, short video so that you guys can judge the performance yourself. Needless to say, people who would like to game on the device are better off getting the pro version, but to reiterate, the pro version has its own set of caveats, such as heavier weight, heat and battery life.



Samsung Ativ Smart PC 500T1C Quick Look Part 2 - Games and Photoshop

The video is being processed :(

Hurry up youtube, i want to see it!

Oh, and thanks for the video!

Edit: Now i can see! Photoshop seems so smooth!

Could you please make a video showing how Visual Studio 2012 runs on this? Please?
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
Hey guys, I received some messages requesting that I run photoshop and some games on the Ativ, so I made a second, short video so that you guys can judge the performance yourself. Needless to say, people who would like to game on the device are better off getting the pro version, but to reiterate, the pro version has its own set of caveats, such as heavier weight, heat and battery life.

Samsung Ativ Smart PC 500T1C Quick Look Part 2 - Games and Photoshop



I haven't had any indication that the pen will scratch the glass. The tip of the pen is not actually that sharp and is rounded and made of plastic, so I think it will be fine. I will probably not get a screen protector, and just buy a laptop sleeve to put it in.
good stuff thanks.
 

tino

Banned
^^^ The Photoshop demo is kind of leggy, but usable. If you don't use the brush tool is entirely usable. Photoshop is not that demanding.

I problem is with the Samsung pen, I just don't think its accurate and responsive enough to draw human face. This is based on my experience with Galaxy Note phone.
 
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