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[Alx]

What has the Microsoft campaign given us? What is the message? What is the key selling point of the Surface according to these ads? How is Microsoft capturing the market? A bunch of folks dancing around clicking a tablet into a keyboard dock. Is this ad selling me the dock? Is this an accessory? Why do I want to buy this hardware? Does it come with great software? A consumer can't tell based on that ad. Microsoft has literally given consumers the song and dance -- a gimmick, if you will.

Althugh I don't think the ad itself is exceptionally great, I do think that it's doing two things right. First by focusing on one of the two big selling points of the Surface : the keyboard (the second one being MSOffice... which may be hinted at with the businessmen using it). It is important to show what makes it different from other devices, instead of saying implicitly "it's like an iPad, only with this and that".

The second other thing it does right is having its own style. They chose something very flashy, which is at the opposite of the minimalist, soft and slightly condescendant tone of Apple ads.

As a company having to catch up their main competitor, it was a good thing to have something that has its own style and message. You can't make a good campaign based on "me too".

 

[CharlieDigital]

The next version of Windows is codenamed Blue, will release around halfway through next year, and will bring further integration of the desktop and Metro.

"SP1", basically.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Althugh I don't think the ad itself is exceptionally great, I do think that it's doing two things right. First by focusing on one of the two big selling points of the Surface : the keyboard (the second one being MSOffice... which may be hinted at with the businessmen using it). It is important to show what makes it different from other devices, instead of saying implicitly "it's like an iPad, only with this and that".

The second other thing it does right is having its own style. They chose something very flashy, which is at the opposite of the minimalist, soft and slightly condescendant tone of Apple ads.

As a company having to catch up their main competitor, it was a good thing to have something that has its own style and message. You can't make a good campaign based on "me too".

nobody is going to look at that ad and connect those businessmen using the device as it having Microsoft Office on it, especially since the ad hasn't even made it clear at that point it's a Microsoft product at all.

By having its own style, they forget some of the key reasons you build an ad (like to sell the product). Flashy videos are nice, but at the end of the day, the video has to sell the product and raise brand awareness.

 

[tci]

You're both being quite pedantic about this discussion because you know that the real question is "Why is this better than an iOS device or an Android device? How had Microsoft succeeded in differentiating their product to the market?"

I would write some more about it, but I'm on a mobile device now, so it is hard to write a lot of text atm.

But short:
- live integration
- apps
- startup/shutdown almost twice as fast
- improved power handling
- better multimonitor support
- improved multicore handling

Edit

Sorry i was thinking about win7 while writing this...

Compared to android/ios

Real multitasking, flash, compatibillity ++

 

[British Monsoon]

Just bought a Windows 8 laptop because comparable models (2.5ghz i5, 6gb ram) with Windows 7 were a good £60-£100 more expensive. What's up with that? Anyway, I know many dislike Windows 8 but haven't read any of the specifics of their complaints, so I guess I'll find out myself when it arrives in a few days. At the very least, it can't be as bad as ME, right?

 

[JaseC]

Actually, you're completely wrong. This is where Microsoft has metrics of MILLIONS of user's data to back up their design decisions.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/11/reflecting-on-your-comments-on-the-start-screen.aspx

"In the Start menu today, when you expand the All Programs flyout, by default you can see a total of 20 apps without scrolling, regardless of how big your monitor is. In one of our studies, we found users launched an average of 57 different apps over the course of several months. "

You do realise the excerpt you're responding to says "daily basis" and your data source says "several months", right?

 

[stktt]

"SP1", basically.

Right, which is doing the exact opposite of reverting back to the start menu. Since Windows is moving to a more rapid update schedule that is already making the new UI more useful and more tightly integrating it with the desktop, I doubt Microsoft will suddenly remove all of those new features and release Windows 7.1.

Just bought a Windows 8 laptop because comparable models (2.5ghz i5, 6gb ram) with Windows 7 were a good £60-£100 more expensive. What's up with that? Anyway, I know many dislike Windows 8 but haven't read any of the specifics of their complaints, so I guess I'll find out myself when it arrives in a few days. At the very least, it can't be as bad as ME, right?

Far from it. Just take some time to learn about the new features and how to use them before diving into the OS.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Althugh I don't think the ad itself is exceptionally great, I do think that it's doing two things right. First by focusing on one of the two big selling points of the Surface : the keyboard (the second one being MSOffice... which may be hinted at with the businessmen using it). It is important to show what makes it different from other devices, instead of saying implicitly "it's like an iPad, only with this and that".

The second other thing it does right is having its own style. They chose something very flashy, which is at the opposite of the minimalist, soft and slightly condescendant tone of Apple ads.

As a company having to catch up their main competitor, it was a good thing to have something that has its own style and message. You can't make a good campaign based on "me too".

Look at that ad again. Imagine you do not know what Surface is. Imagine that you don't know what Windows 8 RT is. Go ahead, take off your techie blinders for a second.

Look at that ad with this lens on -- one of a typical, non-technical consumer.

Now, can you deny that this seems like an ad for an iPad accessory?

----

Now let's step back from that perspective for a second. Is the keyboard really a unique feature? Can you get a keyboard for your Android or iPad? Answer to both are yes. So it cannot be defined as a unique selling point simply because an accessory is included.

What about Microsoft Office? How much of the time in the commercial was dedicated to Microsoft Office? How much of the time was dedicated to dock clicking? Is Microsoft Office unique to the Surface? Is it not available on iOS?

Both key selling points: DOA.

 

[ralexand]

so why should I buy it?

Do us all of us a favor and don't. Not every os is for everyone. Some people still prefer a command line interface. If you see no value in Microsoft's new app model (metro) that prevents rogue apps from bringing your system to a crawl, that's touch friendly and reduces the risk of malware then just use win7 or Linux or macs. Microsoft can't be held to not improving their os because people don't like learning new things.

Problem solved.

 

[KHarvey16]

Do us all of us a favor and don't. Not every os is for everyone. Some people still prefer a command line interface. If you see no value in Microsoft's new app model (metro) that prevents rogue apps from bringing your system to a crawl, that's touch friendly and reduces the risk of malware then just use win7 or Linux or macs. Microsoft can't be held to not improving their os because people don't like learning new things.

Problem solved.

Rogue apps. Lol.

 

[kitch9]

The whole thing is a failure.

The architectural decision to build a tablet OS from a desktop OS and not from a phone OS was a failure.

The decision to release a user experience that could still drop a tablet user into desktop mode in certain cases was a failure.

The terrible advertising that failed to differentiate their tablet from Apple or Android tablets was a failure as Microsoft has no brand cachet in this space in the first place.

The limited hardware launch was a failure, but frankly, I highly doubt the demand is even there.

Win8 is DOA. Enterprises will skip it and wait for Win9 or Win8 SP1 which basically un-Metrofies it. Book it.

Of course Enterprises will skip 8,most have just gone to 7 from XP after skipping Vista. They would have skipped 8 if it was a re skinned 7 too, which is what a lot appear to be after.

7 is useless on Tablets and Touchscreens, and MS need an OS that will work across the diverse range of consumption and productivity devices that are taking over the market whilst breeding familiarity of a new product

8 is the first step, it's not perfect, but sadly for the purists it is a step that needed taking.

I don't think for one second they expected it to be easy. They would have been nuts to think it would.

 

[kitch9]

Look at that ad again. Imagine you do not know what Surface is. Imagine that you don't know what Windows 8 RT is. Go ahead, take off your techie blinders for a second.

Look at that ad with this lens on -- one of a typical, non-technical consumer.

Now, can you deny that this seems like an ad for an iPad accessory?

----

Now let's step back from that perspective for a second. Is the keyboard really a unique feature? Can you get a keyboard for your Android or iPad? Answer to both are yes. So it cannot be defined as a unique selling point simply because an accessory is included.

What about Microsoft Office? How much of the time in the commercial was dedicated to Microsoft Office? How much of the time was dedicated to dock clicking? Is Microsoft Office unique to the Surface? Is it not available on iOS?

Both key selling points: DOA.

Again I'm not in marketing, but I would imagine trying to get the message across and explaining a new product without creating confusion will be difficult to do in 30 seconds.

Making someone interested enough to Google the tag word you've inserted into the ad would be much easier, which is what it appears that they are trying to do.

I'm no expert on the matter by a long shot. We know what a Surface is, so we don't need advertising to. They are after the people with no idea.

 

[Cheech]

Just bought a Windows 8 laptop because comparable models (2.5ghz i5, 6gb ram) with Windows 7 were a good £60-£100 more expensive. What's up with that?...........

At the very least, it can't be as bad as ME, right

Remember when Win 7 dropped, and you could basically steal laptops preloaded with Vista?

This is the opposite.

 

[CharlieDigital]

7 is useless on Tablets and Touchscreens, and MS need an OS that will work across the diverse range of consumption and productivity devices that are taking over the market whilst breeding familiarity of a new product

There is a difference from having a product on the market versus having a good product on the market.

Did you ever use Windows Mobile or Windows CE?

7 is useless on tablet or touch screen, but Windows Phone 8 is not.

As a software/enterprise solutions architect, my perspective is that this is the biggest technical and strategic mistake that Microsoft made because it forced them to make many concessions.

Point 1: battery life. In starting from a desktop OS optimized for desktop hardware and laptops with much larger batteries, they've lost on the battery life.

Point 2: ARM support. Because of their decision to start from an x86 architecture, it means that they have to spend more time and resources in building an ARM compatible RT version which serves to spread their resources thin, confuses the market, and creates a different user experience for RT and Pro users.

Point 3: compromised user experience. It should not be possible for a user on tablet to drop into desktop. Period. It is inexcusable and it is an example of a compromised user experience because it was built from a desktop OS and not the much more suitable Windows Phone OS.

Point 4: compromised user experience: part II. Furthermore, the Metro tenets were carried over to Windows Server 2012. I can tell you this: working in enterprise software, no one will use Server 2012 on a tablet and yet it forces the users into the same conventions and dialogs that have text like "Tap this Dialog". The problem with Server 2012 is further exacerbated by the fact that the hot corners are virtually unusable in windowed mode -- how most sys-admins interact with Server instances either as VMs or via Remote Desktop.

 

[johnsmith]

Just installed Start8. Rage subsiding. Best $5 i've ever spent.

 

[railGUN]

Again I'm not in marketing, but I would imagine trying to get the message across and explaining a new product without creating confusion will be difficult to do in 30 seconds.

Making someone interested enough to Google the tag word you've inserted into the ad would be much easier, which is what it appears that they are trying to do.

I'm no expert on the matter by a long shot. We know what a Surface is, so we don't need advertising to. They are after the people with no idea.

Break that into 3x :30 second spots. Done.

And by the way, I do work in television advertising, and have produced numerous commercials. I'm no expert, and I've not worked on multi-million dollar campaigns, but I do feel qualified to at least discuss the issue.

 

[ralexand]

Win8 is DOA. Enterprises will skip it and wait for Win9 or Win8 SP1 which basically un-Metrofies it. Book it.

If u hate win8 now you're really going to hate its successors because if rumors are true then not only are you not going to get your precious start menu back, the desktop will adopt the look of that horrible, dreadful metro!

I would jump ship now before its too late!

 

[KHarvey16]

If u hate win8 now you're really going to hate its successors because if rumors are true then not only are you not going to get your precious start menu back, the desktop will adopt the look of that horrible, dreadful metro!

I would jump ship now before its too late!

How much do you want to bet that doesn't happen?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

MS need an OS that will work across the diverse range of consumption and productivity devices that are taking over the market whilst breeding familiarity of a new product

Why?

Why not build a GUI that compliments the useage of the specific devices. A desktop is used differently than a laptop, which is used differently than a tablet, which is used differently than a smartphone.

You make GUIs designed with how your product will be used, not a "best size fits most" approach like you would to a novelty watch or something.


Apple might be incorporating better and useable parts of iOS into OSX, but they're not stupid enough to trash one or the other, or worse, try to combine them. It just always comes out awkward with nobody feeling like the GUI is built with them in mind.

 

[Alx]

Look at that ad again. Imagine you do not know what Surface is. Imagine that you don't know what Windows 8 RT is. Go ahead, take off your techie blinders for a second.

Look at that ad with this lens on -- one of a typical, non-technical consumer.

Now, can you deny that this seems like an ad for an iPad accessory?

I had watched the ad again before posting my previous message, to have a fresh idea. And no, it doesn't look like an ad for an iPad accessory at all. There is actually nothing that reminds of an Apple product, because the ad is designed that way. Neither the music, the colors, the rhythm or the glances at the metro interface suggest any link with an Apple product.
(furthermore, I don't remember having ever seen an ad for an iPad accessory... I only know the official Apple ones)

----

Now let's step back from that perspective for a second. Is the keyboard really a unique feature? Can you get a keyboard for your Android or iPad? Answer to both are yes. So it cannot be defined as a unique selling point simply because an accessory is included.

As far as I know (and I admit that I wasn't very aware of the tablet market until recently...), yes it is. Not the keyboard itself, but its integration as a cover, and it's easy connection and removal through the magnetic connection. Of course the "click" is mainly a gimmick, but gimmicks are important to give identity to a product, and make it more than one tablet among others.

What about Microsoft Office? How much of the time in the commercial was dedicated to Microsoft Office? How much of the time was dedicated to dock clicking? Is Microsoft Office unique to the Surface? Is it not available on iOS?

It's probably because Office won't be exclusive to Win8 tablets, and Surface among them, that they didn't focus on that point as a selling one. Maybe they should have, but like you're saying, it would have sent mixed messages when they're also selling it on other platforms.

 

[tci]

Why?

Why not build a GUI that compliments the useage of the specific devices. A desktop is used differently than a laptop, which is used differently than a tablet, which is used differently than a smartphone.

You make GUIs designed with how your product will be used, not a "best size fits most" approach like you would to a novelty watch or something.


Apple might be incorporating better and useable parts of iOS into OSX, but they're not stupid enough to trash one or the other, or worse, try to combine them. It just always comes out awkward with nobody feeling like the GUI is built with them in mind.

Unifying the experience across devices is a very smart decision. In the future there is no reason why experiences should be different across the devices you use.

Sure Win8 isn't the best solution, but it is a nessasary step in the right direction.

 

[ralexand]

How much do you want to bet that doesn't happen?

U didn't read the link about windows blue earlier in this thread?

 

[ralexand]

It's probably because Office won't be exclusive to Win8 tablets, and Surface among them, that they didn't focus on that point as a selling one. Maybe they should have, but like you're saying, it would have sent mixed messages when they're also selling it on other platforms.

The follow up ads have focused on office.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Unifying the experience across devices is a very smart decision. In the future there is no reason why experiences should be different across the devices you use.

This is completely and fundamentally wrong and the reason is so simple.

With a mouse, a laptop trackpad, or laptop pointer, movement and position are relative.

With a touch device, movement and position are absolute.

Aside from that, there is a physical form factor difference. One is meant to be held in the hand. The other is meant be used a a distance.

There are two distinct interaction patterns that call for two different approaches.

 

[KHarvey16]

U didn't read the link about windows blue earlier in this thread?

I don't care what "early reports" or rumors say. If Microsoft has any sense of self preservation the desktop will stay just the way it is.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Unifying the experience across devices is a very smart decision. In the future there is no reason why experiences should be different across the devices you use.

Sure Win8 isn't the best solution, but it is a nessasary step in the right direction.

There's also no reason the experiences will be united. I don't see a hardcore programmer popping a tablet into a doc and making a AAA 3D Video game. I don't see a hardcore gamer playing Angry Birds on the bus home, and then docking it and jumping into Dota 2 at max settings, high resolution, 8x AA.

At least not within this generation. There's thinking for the future, and then there's going way beyond the scope of reality. Microsoft isn't selling an OS for 2050, they're selling one for 2013.

 

[CharlieDigital]

If u hate win8 now you're really going to hate its successors because if rumors are true then not only are you not going to get your precious start menu back, the desktop will adopt the look of that horrible, dreadful metro!

I would jump ship now before its too late!

It will be back. You can book it.

Enterprise adoption -- or lack thereof -- will force it back.

It's not an either-or proposition. Stardock already proved that there is no reason why it has to be either-or and Microsoft knows this just as well. They will hear it from their enterprise customers and it will be back. Windows 8 and any iteration of Windows without the start button will fail user acceptance testing in most enterprises (this is coming from someone with a lot of experience with software failing user acceptance testing).

I also predict that they will come to their senses and we will eventually see Windows Phone OS being scaled up to tablet duties and this current experiment of running a mobile interface facade on top of a desktop OS will end.

 

[tci]

This is completely and fundamentally wrong and the reason is so simple.

With a mouse, a laptop trackpad, or laptop pointer, movement and position are relative.

With a touch device, movement and position are absolute.

Aside from that, there is a physical form factor difference. One is meant to be held in the hand. The other is meant be used a a distance.

There are two distinct interaction patterns that call for two different approaches.

Just wait and see. This is inevitable.

 

[kitch9]

Break that into 3x :30 second spots. Done.

And by the way, I do work in television advertising, and have produced numerous commercials. I'm no expert, and I've not worked on multi-million dollar campaigns, but I do feel qualified to at least discuss the issue.

Fire the same advert at someone who is curious until they relent and look for further information could be another tactic.

I'm not sure something as complex as a Surface could have justice done to it and explained fully whilst holding the viewers interest over 3 x 30 second ads, and that's if the person watching the ads is fortunate enough to actually see all 3 of them.

They was a guy earlier in this thread who said their Mom and Pop was interested enough in the ad to actually pass comment on what they thought it was and they said it was something to do with an Ipad. They guy then send that the ad was ineffective due to this confusion it created.

Thinking about it, the ad was hugely effective in that case as Mom and Pop were interested enough in the ad to pass comment on it only to be corrected when they were wrong.... They know now exactly what the product was thanks to that ad and the desire for further info after viewing it.

 

[tci]

There's also no reason the experiences will be united. I don't see a hardcore programmer popping a tablet into a doc and making a AAA 3D Video game. I don't see a hardcore gamer playing Angry Birds on the bus home, and then docking it and jumping into Dota 2 at max settings, high resolution, 8x AA.

At least not within this generation. There's thinking for the future, and then there's going way beyond the scope of reality. Microsoft isn't selling an OS for 2050, they're selling one for 2013.

This already happens today ... Hardware improves every month. In time laptops will be all gone. Maybe 5-7 years.

 

[kitch9]

It will be back. You can book it.

Enterprise adoption -- or lack thereof -- will force it back.

It's not an either-or proposition. Stardock already proved that there is no reason why it has to be either-or and Microsoft knows this just as well. They will hear it from their enterprise customers and it will be back.

I also predict that they will come to their senses and we will eventually see Windows Phone OS being scaled up to tablet duties and this current experiment of running a mobile interface facade on top of a desktop OS will end.

This OS was never going to sell heavily to Enterprise......

I think full screen start will stay now, but I think the Button to activate it may return. Possibly.

I could be wrong.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

They was a guy earlier in this thread who said their Mom and Pop was interested enough in the ad to actually pass comment on what they thought it was and they said it was something to do with an Ipad. They guy then send that the ad was ineffective due to this confusion it created.

The second half was them asking me if I wanted it for Christmas for my iPad, and me explaining what it really was, and then them forgetting that it exists (with an "oh... well that's a dumb commercial response").

This already happens today ... Hardware improves every month. In time laptops will be all gone. Maybe 5-7 years.

This is incredibly aggressive future thinking.

 

[KHarvey16]

This OS was never going to sell heavily to Enterprise......

Any OS that uses the full screen start will not sell well to enterprise.

 

[CharlieDigital]

This OS was never going to sell heavily to Enterprise......

And yet enterprise is by far their biggest revenue stream.

So now you see the conundrum that they are in.

Q1 2013 Income by Division

- Windows & Windows Live: $1.65 billion, down 50 percent from $3.27 billion a year earlier.
- Server & Tools: $1.75 billion, up 12 percent from $1.57 billion a year earlier.
- Business: $3.65 billion, down 2 percent from $3.7 billion a year earlier.
- Online Services Business: Loss of $364 million, up 29 percent from $514 million loss a year earlier.
- Entertainment & Devices: $19 million, down 94 percent from $340 million a year earlier.
​

What are your credentials for your assumptions?

I have been developing enterprise software on the Microsoft platform for over a decade now from Windows 2000 and classic ASP to BizTalk to ASP.NET to Windows Azure to SharePoint and Office application development. I have worked with Microsoft. I have worked with former Microsoft employees. I have worked with current Microsoft employees. I have had my code reviewed by Microsoft. I have worked with Enterprise users for over a decade now delivering software and UX. I have seen companies struggle with the change to the Ribbon paradigm. I have seen companies struggle to transition users away from old applications -- even a single, high powered dissenting user can keep an outdated app in production for years. I have seen companies fail our products in UAT on inane bullshit like hover context menus because users couldn't find them.

 

[kitch9]

The second half was them asking me if I wanted it for Christmas for my iPad, and me explaining what it really was, and then them forgetting that it exists (with an "oh... well that's a dumb commercial response").



This is incredibly aggressive future thinking.

Yeah yeah, they "forgot."

LOL.

 

[railGUN]

Fire the same advert at someone who is curious until they relent and look for further information could be another tactic.

I'm not sure something as complex as a Surface could have justice done to it and explained fully whilst holding the viewers interest over 3 x 30 second ads, and that's if the person watching the ads is fortunate enough to actually see all 3 of them.

They was a guy earlier in this thread who said their Mom and Pop was interested enough in the ad to actually pass comment on what they thought it was and they said it was something to do with an Ipad. They guy then send that the ad was ineffective due to this confusion it created.

Thinking about it, the ad was hugely effective in that case as Mom and Pop were interested enough in the ad to pass comment on it only to be corrected when they were wrong.... They know now exactly what the product was thanks to that ad and the desire for further info after viewing it.

You think annoying them into investigating is more effective then presenting the strengths of the product in a clear, concise manner? Relying on people with prior and accurate knowledge of the product to correct those confused by the advertisement is an interesting approach, but I'd doubt you'd get the Surface marketing team to admit that was their goal.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yeah yeah, they "forgot."

LOL.

yea, people tend not to commit things they have no use for to memory, unless you remember every trivial infomercial you've seen for things you'll never buy.

 

[tci]

This is incredibly aggressive future thinking.

Sure. But look at what is happening in the market now. Just 3 years ago the tablet was nothing, now it is every where.

 

[ralexand]

There's also no reason the experiences will be united. I don't see a hardcore programmer popping a tablet into a doc and making a AAA 3D Video game. I don't see a hardcore gamer playing Angry Birds on the bus home, and then docking it and jumping into Dota 2 at max settings, high resolution, 8x AA.

At least not within this generation. There's thinking for the future, and then there's going way beyond the scope of reality. Microsoft isn't selling an OS for 2050, they're selling one for 2013.

That sounds amazing and not that difficult to pull off with Haswell coming and widi etc. In fact the surface pro is the first step in that direction. There is no compelling reason that you should need to carry two devices vs. one that's adaptable to the use case involved. MS is the visionary here and like most visionaries they will have to suffer the arrows from those who are shortsighted like u who can only imagine things the way they are now and not what they will be in the near future.

Why not have a high performance, low power device that u can dock for increased power, that can run content along with content creation software with all your settings roaming and all your content stored in the cloud. I know...you can't do that until apple says you can.

 

[Alx]

Any OS that uses the full screen start will not sell well to enterprise.

Honest question : why would the fullscreen start menu be more a problem in enterprise than private use ?
Professional users are more likely to spend hours on a single software, and would use the start menu once or twice a day.

 

[Monumental]

Hybrid OS is EXACTLY the kind of forward thinking that people always complained that Microsoft lacked. Now, they can't deal with the change. Although admittedly, some more work needs to be done in seamlessly integrating two experiences meant for 2 different inputs and form factors.

I do wonder if there should be a universal task/app switching instead of one for metro and one for desktop. I do wonder if there should be a minimize/close/ button and windowed mode for metro apps when used on a Desktop only environment. I do wonder if mouse/touchpad gestures need to be better implemented for people using Windows 8 on older laptops or Desktops only. I do wonder if Metro Apps do need to be more fully realized so people are forced to switch to the desktop version of those apps, or just plain missing them when they're using Windows RT.

The point is, a lot of work needs to be done still. The completely infuriating thing is that the major complaints and outcry is from the close-minded and ignorant who wish Microsoft had never taken these steps to begin with.

They had to freaking start somewhere! And in that regard, Windows 8 is a pretty giant first step...if it wasn't, there wouldn't be so much bitching about the change.

I'm using Windows 8 on a old laptop with no touchscreen, multitouch, or gesture support on the touchpad. So I know first hand the kind of limitations Windows 8 has when not using the appropriate form factor. But still, there is so much improvement, and further still, so much potential, that I can't fault Microsoft for actually trying something new.

Hybrid Devices are the future. And anyone who fights against it, and claims that it isn't is so mindbogglingly out of touch, it's sad.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Sure. But look at what is happening in the market now. Just 3 years ago the tablet was nothing, now it is every where.

by and large, people view Tablets and Laptops as different devices. A Laptop being a portable Desktop, while a Tablet is a larger, more powerful smart phone.

Or at least that's how every non-tech person I've ever talked to about it has said. A friend of mine got some Android tablet for Christmas and described it to her mom as "like big version of your phone!"

Until such sentiments are broken, they'll always be seen as two different things.

Sales of laptops aren't declining near fast enough for them to disappear in even a decade's time. Some, like Apple's, are even growing in sales, despite strong iPad sales.

Why not have a high performance, low power device that u can dock for increased power, that can run content along with content creation software with all your settings roaming and all your content stored in the cloud. I know...you can't do that until apple says you can.

Why not invent a tablet battery that will last more than 20 minutes with that sort of power while you're at it.

 

[KHarvey16]

Honest question : why would the fullscreen start menu be more a problem in enterprise than private use ?
Professional users are more likely to spend hours on a single software, and would use the start menu once or twice a day.

First, your premise is false. Second, Windows 8 and any OS that operates like it is an IT nightmare given the two entirely different US design directives.

 

[ralexand]

Any OS that uses the full screen start will not sell well to enterprise.

IPads are being used in the enterprise. You guys are so shortsighted.

 

[kitch9]

Any OS that uses the full screen start will not sell well to enterprise.

You don't know that.

Before the 3rd of April 2010 we would have said what is essentially a massive phone would have become one of the biggest selling media consumption devices ever would have been a ridiculous idea. Don't get me started on the price, and the available power for your money which was none existent.

It happened. It had an Apple on the back, which for decades would have been a crazy idea too.

Times change, the push forward is relentless.

 

[tci]

by and large, people view Tablets and Laptops as different devices. A Laptop being a portable Desktop, while a Tablet is a larger, more powerful smart phone.

Or at least that's how every non-tech person I've ever talked to about it has said. A friend of mine got some Android tablet for Christmas and described it to her mom as "like big version of your phone!"

Until such sentiments are broken, they'll always be seen as two different things.

Sales of laptops aren't declining near fast enough for them to disappear in even a decade's time. Some, like Apple's, are even growing in sales, despite strong iPad sales.


Why not invent a battery that will last more than 20 minutes with that sort of power while you're at it.

and that is where Win8 comes in.... Are you guys not seeing this?

 

[CharlieDigital]

Honest question : why would the fullscreen start menu be more a problem in enterprise than private use ?
Professional users are more likely to spend hours on a single software, and would use the start menu once or twice a day.

So wrong on this.

Sooooo wrong.

Professional users have multiple spreadsheets, documents, and PowerPoints open at any given time along with their mail and browsers.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

and that is where Win8 comes in.... Are you guys not seeing this?

But it's not doing it effectively. In fact, it might be making it worse as people now have a negative view of combining them, because the first company to do so botched it so badly.

IPads are being used in the enterprise. You guys are so shortsighted.

I have an iPad, I know for a fact I can't have Flash, Flash Builder, Outlook, Firefox, Chrome, Internet Explorer and about 200 easy to get to images on my desktop on my iPad, at the same time, or even within two or three clicks. I have this all open right now at the computer I am currently seated at. For starters, no tablet, not even an iPad, has the strength to run all of these at the same time.

PS, this is on a docked laptop.

 

[kitch9]

yea, people tend not to commit things they have no use for to memory, unless you remember every trivial infomercial you've seen for things you'll never buy.

So you've never walked into a shop and been drawn to something and you don't know why?

Especially when its in an area that you aren't particularly knowledgable about.

That is what marketing is about surely. The simple fact the ad created a discussion of any sort can only be seen as a positive thing.

So wrong on this.

Sooooo wrong.

Professional users have multiple spreadsheets, documents, and PowerPoints open at any given time along with their mail and browsers.

Right, nothing in 8 is stopping them....

Fact is, people use Windows in different ways, and its up to the individual to see if it works for them.

 

[KHarvey16]

IPads are being used in the enterprise. You guys are so shortsighted.

iPads are not used to do work at the enterprise level. Salesmen and reps use them to take notes, show you slide presentations and send email. No one sits down at their desk and boots up an iPad to do their work.