Waiting just a few years longer would have been even worse. Windows is a platform that have to be designed for years into the future. Metro was needed now, not later. I agree they could have done better.
Windows 8's uptake falls behind Vista's pace
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You do realize that win phone 8 is based on the win8 kernel now so the opposite of your scenario is coming to fruition.
CharlieDigital
Banned
This is very, very wrong.
It's much easier to see in the shift in the enterprise because it's been a very dramatic shift to the cloud.
On the consumer side, the shift is less perceptible because cloud has already become pervasive, but on the enterprise side, companies are just starting the revolution to more cloud based software delivered through the browser instead of through dedicated desktop applications.
You see it in the infrastructure as well. All of the companies I work with now -- the biggest pharmas in the world -- all host their enterprise environments "in the cloud" on virtual machines. This is the trend, but it's not as obvious to the fish that the fish is surrounded by water (in other words, it's not as obvious in the consumer market because it's the way it's always been -- Hotmail, Gmail, Facebook, etc).
But you see it in Microsoft's push for Office Web Apps, Office 365, hosted SharePoint, Windows Azure Service Bus (hosted BizTalk-lite), Windows Azure AppFabric, etc. There is a shift in the Enterprise that is catching up to the consumer market and that shift de-emphasizes the client runtime environment by delivering software via the browser instead of installed applications.
The future of Microsoft will be in cloud based software and cloud based services and it's what Microsoft wants as well because it means subscription based Office -- and software in general -- being the norm and this is a huge win for Microsoft.
You can call Microsoft's hybrid design a "forward" decision, but it's a terrible forward decision for all of the compromises it forces their development teams and product managers to make not to mention their hardware partners who have to build tablet sized hardware for the more power hungry desktop/laptop OS architecture.
The desktop model will be going away, but it should not be the dead weight dragging their mobile and tablet platform. Their mobile and tablet platform should have been one -- and I speculate that it will be, moving forward -- with the desktop and servers continue to serve content creators.
All things that could be done with a winrt device so if iPads are entering the enterprise then eventually win8 tablets along with win8 will be.
Did you even read what you just quoted?
Dreams-Visions
Member
This man speaks truth.
Yes, your point was the enterprise would never accept a full screen metro interface and my point its accepting even more radical options like the iPad.
Ok so no, you didn't read it.
balladofwindfishes
Member
a tablet isn't going to be an acceptable device to program things on, to make serious movies on, to do intense, high tech statistics. You can't have thousands of tiles of spreadsheets open, or multiple windows with various pieces of information that all have to be considered. You can't type essays on tablets, even with a keyboard, the interface doesn't lend itself to proper editing.
It's not for portable powerpoint presentations. It's nice for showing websites to others. It's great for taking notes. These are things tablets are good at, and a place they can excel in business. But not all businesses will be able to work on a tablet, so they won't adopt them.
Not all businesses have the same requirements you are correct..... Whats your point?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Everyone is going to use the poor uptake of Win 8 to debate their views on the Metro interface...
... But in that alternate universe where Win 8 is just a traditional desktop OS.. Would people be rushing to upgrade there either? I really think not.
Regardless of the merit of Metro.... Win 7 is good enough for so many people (especially enterprise).
... But in that alternate universe where Win 8 is just a traditional desktop OS.. Would people be rushing to upgrade there either? I really think not.
Regardless of the merit of Metro.... Win 7 is good enough for so many people (especially enterprise).
balladofwindfishes
Member
that an all tablet future is not happening for a very long time. Eventually we'll get tablets that can dock to a mouse/keyboard/big monitor setting, and when we do, then maybe they'll be adopted in more industries, but for now, the extent of enterprise useage for tablets are salesmen and similar professions where small bits of information and advertisements need to be portal and easy to show off. For that, tablets excel. For everything else, laptops/desktops will be around for awhile.
Microsoft not taking different needs of different users into account and understanding what business really wants.
Metro is an annoyance for most business. Fluff they don't need, they won't have a use for, and to them is wasted time and money spent training to use.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Just for the sake of conversation: if they really wanted to, all they'd need is docks and large, high res screens to connect their Win8 tablets to. And so long as Intel's integrated graphics keep getting better, that can be a realistic scenario.
But as far as performance for certain tasks, you're right that a tablet will always be the worst choice. Premiere/Maya/CAD on Intel integrated is a non-starter. But maybe we'll start seeing docks with discrete GPU's built in to me this sort of need.
Heavy tasks - desktop
Other tasks - tablet
Today this have been a desktop/laptop world. Going desktop/tablet is actually cheaper as well.
balladofwindfishes
Member
But why?
Just 'cause?
We already have dedicated GPU machines with large monitors. They're desktops, and they've been around for awhile.
I do my heavy tasks on my laptop. I have multiple IDEs open at the same time, 3 browsers, and I get good performance. My work computer, which does heavy programming with Flash, is a docked laptop.
You can buy gaming laptops that work well for portable HD gaming.
These things will not transfer to a tablet device for decades. The battery tech isn't there. The cooling tech isn't there. The physical space of the tech isn't there.
Dreams-Visions
Member
For all the benefits that something that weighs 2lbs (or less) and can leave a room offers that a desktop does not, of course. I don't need to list those, do I?
If the tablet + discrete GPU dock can be made price competitive with a pure desktop option, what would be the reason to buy the desktop? Just HDD and memory expandability, IMO. Lots of businesses moved past desktops and onto laptops for their work. Tablets are just another form of laptop really. Address the primary concerns with a decent dock solution and the issues are averted, no?
balladofwindfishes
Member
but how long is that going to take? 10 years? 20? The tech might be there in 10, the price won't be until 20.
So Microsoft is shooting for tech that won't exist for almost another generation? There's forward thinking, and then there's getting ahead of yourself, and Microsoft made an awkward OS that tries to portray this utopia future of everyone using tablets for everything, when that market isn't going to exist until Windows 8 is long and forgotten.
14nm CPU's are just around the corner, the processing power available with low power consumption would have been unthinkable a mere few years ago.
All bets are off when it happens as the form factors OEMS can create will be limitless and will suit just about every need.
OEMS do not know which form factor will be eventually picked by the market, which is why there's so much weird and wonderful, flip, touch, transforming devices appearing at the minute whilst they desperately try to cover all potential bases.
The next 12-18 months will be really interesting.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I hear you. I don't know if a GPU dock is 7 years away. Different companies have been selling external discrete GPU options for laptops for years. It's far from "tech that won't exist for almost another generation".
Nothing I've mentioned is pie in the sky. It's stuff that already exists, though I don't believe any manufacturers have built such a dock setup for any of eir tablets yet. Maybe we'll see some at CES.
Alx
Member
Well, then replace "single software" by "a handful of software". The point is that a pro user won't launch new applications every 5 minutes, unlike a private one. When I work on my desktop, I always have my IDE, office and browser open and won't use the start program again once it's done.
My point is, there is nothing in the fullscreen start that is more troublesome for Professional use than for private use. Hence my surprise at the argument I quoted. What will prevent companies from upgrading is mostly the lack of reason compared to what they currently have. But that's true for any version of any OS, and design choices are certainly a very minor part of such decisions.
Your average business does none of that though.....
There will always be specialist businesses that have specialist needs, but the vast majority of businesses do not have specialist requirements.
If you think the vast majority of enterprise PCs could be replaced by a tablet you're completely out of your mind.
The vast majority of Enterprise PC's out there will have much less horsepower and storage than the Surface Pro, whilst sucking far more power.
Most large businesses out there do not update their PC's for years and years, its just not cost effective when you have a network that works....
balladofwindfishes
Member
well what is an "average business" ?
A retail store? Tablets seem like an expensive alternative to a standard cash register. I've seen stores that use smart phones are registers, and these people had phones anyway, they didn't buy them specifically to be registers.
A doctor's office? Medic records on a tablet? This seems like a bad idea. Why do these records need to be portable?
A restaurant? Maybe. With the right apps, this one might be able to use a tablet well for orders and checking out right at the table. But it has no need to then use that tablet on a desktop, or vice-versa, so Win 8's not really at any advantage there.
A bank? No way you're doing intense statistics and finance on a tablet. And why would you need too? Where's that information going?
Do I have to repeat myself? If you think the vast majority of enterprise PCs could be replaced by a tablet you're completely out of your mind. Believing that clearly demonstrates ignorance.
So, none of those businesses have the need for office staff, to do admin, marketing, buying, accounts, R&D, HR, etc, etc, etc, etc?
Someone needs to open their mind, we aren't all Doctors or Banks? Ipads are getting everywhere:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/techno...t-ipads-to-help-them-with-their-rounds-185782
There's plenty of people who would benefit from being able to just pick their work station up at the end of the day and take it home with them, but yeah, I agree an "average" Doctor ain't one of them.
As I have said the Surface Pro has specs which would be higher than most PC's out there in the workplace, which means there's no reason why they couldn't replace them..... There's certainly more power in them than your average office staff would need. Whether they would or not is a different story of course, the market is yet to make that decision when (if) the products ever become readily available. Surface Pro seems to be taking forever.
I own a business by the way, I daresay I am less ignorant than you when it comes to this subject.
The different story being that they certainly will not.
Why do they have to?
They fill a rapidly growing niche that up until less than 3 years ago we didn't know existed, and thanks to ULV chips they can finally be nearly as useful as a full PC, with the added bonus of being much more portable than your average laptop.
I do think in 2-3 years they will be much more prevalent than you appear to think they will be..... Especially if the price drops to somewhat more mainstream levels.
Whilst having a much higher res screen I guess...
If there was no difference between a laptop and a tablet, why does the latter exist? You can't tell me it's new and taking over and then say it does everything the same. It doesn't, and that's why they aren't going to takeover any time soon.
Not everything.
Unless "a few years" means 10, your time table is ridiculous.
You sound like the ignorant one. Do you know what crap machines are being used in most businesses. A dockable surface type device could easily replace that crap hardware.
So the only difference between a new Surface and older desktops is hardware? Lol.
Such as? It can certainly run eclipse, putty, vs, Visio, etc, etc, which would be all I need. Certainly there are higher demand software, but that isn't the majority of enterprise hardware needs.
What's your definition of a Laptop?
There's a large amount of crossover between laptops and tablets to the point they are rapidly becoming the same thing, hence all the flip screens, hybrids, detachable keyboards and things.... Its happening very quickly too, the market will explode with them over the next 12 months driven on further by the arrival of Haswell.
If you can't see that happening already you must be blind or something.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Easy, cost and tech. The advent of the arm chip and the work that Intel has been doing on their mobile chips are allowing computing tech to shrink in size. Intel last year has been pushing ultrabooks and the next logical step is tablets that convert running win8. Again, you're very shortsighted. No one is saying that we're going to wake up and all machines will become tablets, but to claim the mobilization and miniaturation of tech isn't currently happening then you're just delusional.
Can it run a version of Windows corporations will find acceptable?
If you guys wanna hang your hat on "a few years", be my guest. You'll be wrong. Tablets will remain consumer centric and corporations will not look to adapt them into their environments right away, ESPECIALLY if they get stuck with a version of Windows they cannot use.
It's funny people can mention how the past few years has seen the adoption of laptops and then turn around and suggest the adoption of tablets will be many, many times faster.
Your hyperbole is silly. There isn't anything about win8 that makes it unusable compared to win7. You might not like it but its far from unusable and runs virtually every app that win7 runs.
yes.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I don't see that happening this decade. YMMV.
Saying businesses cannot use 8 is pure hyperbole. 8 can be used on whatever device they decide to buy regardless of the input methods employed.
Wanna bet?
Dreams-Visions
Member
I've got 20 or so staff says yeah.
The stuff like shared calendars and whatever with desktop notifications is actually pretty useful.
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