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[Poindexter]

Eh, I was going to update my phone with the ansar rom from xda-developers but I'm seeing way too many problems. Has anyone else doe it and had any problems?

 

[brotkasten]

When you guys were talking about the chevron team getting bought out, I was going to point out that it was a terrible thing, because among other things, a lot of these Apple updates are about containing the jailbreak community. It'll be great if MS can sneak in some bugfixes with these OTA updates.

This is what I'm hoping for. They should be able to release some bug fixes, that don't require a new build of the OS, like copy/paste does and with small fixes like that, there would be no need to involve the carriers.

 

[Treo360]

Eh, I was going to update my phone with the ansar rom from xda-developers but I'm seeing way too many problems. Has anyone else doe it and had any problems?

Aside from the things I posted? Too many problems as in what exactly? One user claimed that the new update is killing battery life. I have to HD 7 devices and I can't seem to replicate this. In fact I have left one on with both wireless and the radio antenna on for over 14 hours and the battery bar appears 80-90% full still.

I will say that the voice recognition has an Aussie accent now, which I find funny.

 

[Poindexter]

Aside from the things I posted? Too many problems as in what exactly? One user claimed that the new update is killing battery life. I have to HD 7 devices and I can't seem to replicate this. In fact I have left one on with both wireless and the radio antenna on for over 14 hours and the battery bar appears 80-90% full still.

I will say that the voice recognition has an Aussie accent now, which I find funny.

From the link you posted, some people are having problems just installing it and I don't want to end up with a bricked phone. Also, some guy is saying that now it's reporting international calls on his bills. Someone else can't access the marketplace. Another person can't sync their gmail. I'll probably still end up doing it, but I'm going to take some time tonight and read more in that thread.

 

[Treo360]

From the link you posted, some people are having problems just installing it and I don't want to end up with a bricked phone. Also, some guy is saying that now it's reporting international calls on his bills. Someone else can't access the marketplace. Another person can't sync their gmail. I'll probably still end up doing it, but I'm going to take some time tonight and read more in that thread.

It was easy to do. The international calling thing is weird, but I suspect something is wrong on the users end. Gmail, I will check in a second here. I'm the person there who was complaining about the phone flashing to a Singstar rom, but again, the error was on my end as I had a different ROM that was for another phone.

 

[Poindexter]

well one thing that concerned me was, I downloaded b.1 and b.2 and the file names are different than what he listed them as in the OP. I'm OCD like that.

 

[Treo360]

well one thing that concerned me was, I downloaded b.1 and b.2 and the file names are different than what he listed them as in the OP. I'm OCD like that.

Ha! No worries, I'm not going to say that you can't brick your phone, but in the beginning he had the wrong b2. rom up and well it rendered the phone useless until he upped the right file. It wasn't a big issue, because the phone boots to the bootldr which is fine because you can always go back to the original TMOUS rom.

Oh, and Gmail works just fine for me.

 

[Poindexter]

screw it! i'm doing it tonight. I've been telling myself if it wasn't out by today I'd do it and by God i'm going to do it.

 

[brotkasten]

Neowin released an editorial about the update debacle: Windows Phone 7: Why it's failing

So did WPCentral: In defense of Microsoft and the 'NoDo' update

Choose your side and fight!

 

[JaggedSac]

5/20/2010 – Froyo officially announced
6/29/2010 – Google Nexus One receives official Froyo build
8/3/2010 – Verizon Motorola Droid update
8/10/2010 – Sprint EVO 4G update
9/22/2010 – Verizon Samsung Fascinate updated
10/13/2010 – T-Mobile MyTouch 3G updated
10/22/2010 – Verizon Droid X updated
11/2/2010 – Verizon Droid Incredible updated
1/21/2011 – T-Mobile Samsung Vibrant updated
2/21/2011 – Sprint Epic 4G updated
2/23/2011 – AT&T Dell Streak updated
2/25/2011 – AT&T HTC Aria updated
2/25/2011 – AT&T Samsung Captivate updated
TBA – T-Mobile MyTouch Slide update
Never – Sony XPERIA X10 update

Is AT&T really this shit or did these phones not release until later than the others?

 

[VanMardigan]

Is AT&T really this shit or did these phones not release until later than the others?

At&t and Samsung is probably the worst update mix that you can have. And now I have two such devices in my house. fml

 

[snap0212]

So did WPCentral: In defense of Microsoft and the 'NoDo' update

Choose your side and fight!

"They never said that NoDo would be released to all devices in March."

Microsoft also did not say they are not going to cut off our hands. Guess it's time to say good bye to my hands.

 

[brotkasten]

Is AT&T really this shit or did these phones not release until later than the others?

No, AT&T is really this shitty when it comes to smartphone updates.

Release date of the phones:
HTC Aria: June 20, 2010
Samsung Captivate: July 18, 2010

 

[VanMardigan]

No, AT&T is really this shitty when it comes to smartphone updates.

Release date of the phones:
HTC Aria: June 20, 2010
Samsung Captivate: July 18, 2010

Lets put it in perspective though, the Captivate had two minor bug fix updates a few months after launch. wp7 is still the king of modern phone update delays after launch. This is unprecedented territory the wp7 team is forging in terms of letting their products live with bugs. Legendary incompetence at this point.

 

[Poindexter]

dear lord, they finally upgraded the mytouch 3g from 1.6 to 2.2??? They did it right around the time I got rid of it too.

 

[brotkasten]

Hey look, they're hiding now!

was hoping to get Windows Phone Radio out the door this week but not looking good. So working to get some new guests and come back on Apr 8

Joe Belfiore is in the new episode of the Channel 9 series 'Countdown to MIX11' and he has some news and explanations.

Some tidbits:

• Most people have the February update
• Slow, phased roll out for NoDo to make sure the update is working really well
• You're totally the carrier's bitch, when it comes to the updates
• More about Mango at MIX11, including new features
• People love the phones

http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Counting-Down-to-Mix/Countdown-to-MIX11-Joe-Belfiore-Talks-Phone

In what weird reality is he living? If you exclude the US, then yes, most people probably have the Feb 11 update. Congratulations for that. They want to make sure the update is working really well? Then what's the testing for? And why won't you do betas for developers? That will most definitely help. And it's sure great to talk about Mango at MIX11, where probably 80% of the attendees are still waiting for NoDo.

Ugh, I'm bitching too much lately.

Lets put it in perspective though, the Captivate had two minor bug fix updates a few months after launch. wp7 is still the king of modern phone update delays after launch. This is unprecedented territory the wp7 team is forging in terms of letting their products live with bugs. Legendary incompetence at this point.

Oh, I agree with you and I don't think the WPCentral editorial makes a good point. As Thurrot said, you have to compare it to the best in the business and that's Apple.

 

[antiquegamer]

More PR double talk and no our fault from Microsoft employee, that one post by exmsft is really make this even more glaring. Microsoft just love to talk about the future and promise what great and exciting things they have plaining. Executing it on the other hands ...

I have no expectation for Mango at all and few months ago this announcement would be exciting now it just another "future tech" they so love promising.

 

[show me your skeleton]

People love the phones

i hate this part the most because anyone listening to this will already have the a windows phone, thus already have an opinion, which of course is probably being tarnished by their seeming incompetence. clinging on to some survey doesn't really excuse or explain their lack of progress.

 

[Klocker]

Is AT&T really this shit or did these phones not release until later than the others?

AT&T really is this shitty

 

[VanMardigan]

Oh, I agree with you and I don't think the WPCentral editorial makes a good point. As Thurrot said, you have to compare it to the best in the business and that's Apple.

The comparison is even more problematic the closer you look at it. 2.1 to 2.2 is more comparable to the mango update than to this minor cut/paste update. 2.2 bought the dalvik vm, a better web browser with improved performance and of course the HUGE Flash plugin support. Plus all around improvements in UI and OS speed.

Finally, you have to always keep in mind that Google already is at a much more mature level than wp7, which of course means that wp7 SHOULD be moving faster to catch up.

It's a very stupid comparison by wpcentral, really pathetic and I hate that they've taken a stance like that. I'd much prefer that as many outlets as possible give MS a hard time. They really need it to be drilled into their skulls that, no matter how fast THEY think they're moving, they need to be moving much faster.

 

[brotkasten]

It's a very stupid comparison by wpcentral, really pathetic and I hate that they've taken a stance like that. I'd much prefer that as many outlets as possible give MS a hard time. They really need it to be drilled into their skulls that, no matter how fast THEY think they're moving, they need to be moving much faster.

Oh, don't you worry about that.

Microsoft is giving anxious customers a chart that tells them what's going on with the update on their phone.

Unfortunately, it's not very useful. It has no dates, only vague terms.

...
Microsoft's business customers are (sadly) accustomed to this kind of vague information about future releases. Product groups often don't want to make specific date commitments in case they miss them. So they respond with things like roadmaps that don't include any dates in the future, only vague time frames.

In this case, the problem is a little different: Microsoft can rush like crazy to get an update done, but it's up to carriers to push the update over the air to the phone.

Microsoft's Windows Phone Update "Schedule" Is Useless

So, what’s the point of talking up the Windows Phone 7 update process, all but lying that NoDo will be available in late March when that never was possible? Why frustrate and alienate early adopters who were open-minded and excited enough to buy Windows Phone 7 devices before their quality was proven?

Microsoft, there is a simple and elegant solution to this debacle you’ve found yourself in. Don’t make promises you can’t keep. Be open about your challenges; folks will understand. And, most importantly, tell the truth.

People would like to see Microsoft succeed with Windows Phone 7. The problem is, that doesn’t yet seem to be happening.

Microsoft’s Windows Phone 7 update process in one word: Fail

This long, drawn-out release process for updates is a mess, and leaves consumers in the dark as to when to expect their update. If Apple can coordinate an iOS release worldwide and across all models for a single day, the fact that Microsoft can’t do the same for consumers is a total and utter fail.

Where's your Windows Phone 7 update?

Good Thing We All Picked the "Premier" Windows Phone Partner, Eh?

Speaking of the first Windows Phone software update, a commenter in my Windows Phone Secrets blog raised an excellent point this week. When Microsoft announced Windows Phone 7 last year, it said that AT&T would be its "premier partner" without explaining what exactly that meant. Now that we have a chart, of sorts, showing when (sort of) the first Windows Phone update will ship to users, we can see what AT&T's role really is, given its non-alphabetical position at the bottom of the list: spoiler. It is still testing the update, and the pre-update, and will presumably be among the last to deliver these important changes to customers. I'm so excited I picked the premier Windows Phone (Samsung Focus) on the premier carrier (AT&T).

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/wininfo-daily-update/WinInfo-Short-Takes-3-25.aspx

I wish Engadget would publish an article or editorial.

 

[Stinkles]

Microsoft’s Windows Phone 7 update process in one word: Fail
.

Problems aside, the SeattlePI guy is a gaf-quality troll. You should read his blog on Kinect.

 

[dream]

Holy shit. I didn't know the update you've all been waiting on is the same one that bricked some Samsung handsets last month.

 

[brotkasten]

Holy shit. I didn't know the update you've all been waiting on is the same one that bricked some Samsung handsets last month.

It's not the same update.

 

[maximum360]

I'm ready to make the Windows 7 jump. My Touch Pro 2 is really showing it's age now but I refuse to take the marginal upgrade in the HTC Arrive from Sprint. Is there any word on any other WP7 devices that's in the pipeline for Sprint? It seems like there's another cool Android device being reported every other day....

 

[Iced_Eagle]

Since my phone is dev unlocked, I made my Focus unbranded and got the pre-NoDo update! Install went smooth and not a single issue. MS hasn't pushed NoDo for unbranded Samsung devices though, but hopefully they do that sooner than AT&T will.

 

[antiquegamer]

I should have run the other way when I read this awhile ago. I though Microsoft know better and realize how important this platform is for their future. I should have know better ...

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/11/windows-phone-7-updates-can-carriers-block-them.ars

Updates are cumulative. If one [carrier] doesn't get their testing done in time, the next push date comes and it goes out then. Carriers could in fact block updates to sell you a phone. That can happen. But we don't expect that to happen. We are not going to push updates onto carrier networks that they have not tested. Microsoft is being very trusting of the carriers here. This is very different from the situation with Windows Mobile where every phone was very different. With Windows Phone, there is no impact on OEM code, network code, and so on. Yes, there are upgrades that will require a full test pass. But most will not.

I don't think we will see mango ever. He actually said he doesn't think this will happen because carrier know better. Lol, what planet is he and Microsoft living on.

 

[Klocker]

I really don't know why everyone is so up in arms with MS over this?

cheeze n crackers, short of muscling the carriers and pulling an Apple (which was out of the question given their position in the market), they are friggin hogtied here.

With phone manufacturers and carriers BOTH throwing in their own fixes onto these updates it really is out of their hands evidently. I understand the "pile on MS" mentality cause their name is on the OS but geez it's ahelluva lot more complicated than that.


AT&T sucks big donkey dick for updates and always have. Other carriers are not much better so being pissed today about some fantasy contract that MS coulda, woulda, shoulda made to override carriers adding on their own updates or circumventing them altogether, is a strawman argument.

 

[Commodore]

I really don't know why everyone is so up in arms with MS over this?

cheeze n crackers, short of muscling the carriers and pulling an Apple (which was out of the question given their position in the market), they are friggin hogtied here.

With phone manufacturers and carriers BOTH throwing in their own fixes onto these updates it really is out of their hands evidently. I understand the "pile on MS" mentality cause their name is on the OS but geez it's ahelluva lot more complicated than that.


AT&T sucks big donkey dick for updates and always have. Other carriers are not much better so being pissed today about some fantasy contract that MS coulda, woulda, shoulda made to override carriers adding on their own updates or circumventing them altogether, is a strawman argument.

This.

Here, I'll be your scapegoat everyone. Contrary to previous perception, it's all my fault. I promise the update will come out for everyone when the carriers testing the update are done.

 

[VanMardigan]

AT&T sucks big donkey dick for updates and always have. Other carriers are not much better so being pissed today about some fantasy contract that MS coulda, woulda, shoulda made to override carriers adding on their own updates or circumventing them altogether, is a strawman argument.

Your point would've been fantastic had Microsoft not led EVERYONE to believe that they did, in fact, have a fantasy contract that would allow frequent updates, and that carriers couldn't block their updates, and that the first one would arrive "shortly after launch".

Or maybe you weren't following along since they unveiled the OS last year and all they said throughout, but we have. You can't re-write history now that they've utterly failed to live up to their own statements.

This.

Here, I'll be your scapegoat everyone. Contrary to previous perception, it's all my fault. I promise the update will come out for everyone when the carriers testing the update are done.

Fuck off. Didn't you JUST GET the damn phone? If you don't like the complaining, don't click on this thread. But don't pull up bullshit posts when you haven't had to put up with bugs for many months that should've been patched a long time ago.

 

[Klocker]

Your point would've been fantastic had Microsoft not led EVERYONE to believe that they did, in fact, have a fantasy contract that would allow frequent updates, and that carriers couldn't block their updates, and that the first one would arrive "shortly after launch".

Or maybe you weren't following along since they unveiled the OS last year and all they said throughout, but we have. You can't re-write history now that they've utterly failed to live up to their own statements.



.

I have only been following along since about December but as of that point I had read (always) that there was the possibility of direct updates but that carriers COULD block them (or cause delays) . So my expectation bubble has not been bursted like some others here.


So I'ma roll with it and be pissed at AT&T and Samsung per usual.

 

[jonnybryce]

Yeah that was the biggest talking point in the debate of Android vs WP7 fans and turns out it's actually kinda messy.

 

[brotkasten]

Your point would've been fantastic had Microsoft not led EVERYONE to believe that they did, in fact, have a fantasy contract that would allow frequent updates, and that carriers couldn't block their updates, and that the first one would arrive "shortly after launch".

Nah, they always said that carriers could do that, even to sell you a new phone. They just didn't expect them to do it.

For everyone who's complaining about our complains, here's is Thurrot's old report from the review workshop before the launch. I won't bold anything, just read the entire thing.

Microsoft has pledged to update any and all Windows Phones over time. And they will do so, though the schedule remains unclear. There is, however, one wrinkle to this scheme that only came to light in the past few weeks. While Microsoft had previously maintained that it would completely bypass any controls put in place by wireless carriers and update Windows Phones directly, just as they do with Windows-based PCs, that is not the case. Instead, Microsoft is working with the wireless carriers to ensure that the updates they release pass whatever testing bars the carriers have put in place. Only when these updates have passed the tests will they be given to users. So its theoretically possible that a carrier, like AT&T, could hold up a big update for a month or more before handing it off to users.

Suffice to say that this news created a bit of an uncomfortable moment for everyone involved in a recent reviewer's workshop. But let the record show that I went to bat for consumers, with representatives of AT&T in the room, repeatedly, and interrupted attempts to move the conversation along. There's a cute feel-good vibe going on right now between Microsoft and AT&T, but I want to be clear about this: I do not trust the wireless carriers to do the right thing. Neither should you. And neither should Microsoft.

Here's what we were told. "We build updates for all Windows Phone users, but must certify them with the carriers," Microsoft corporate VP Joe Belfiore said. "They'll happen on a regular cadence like they do on the PC. If a carrier wants to stop an update they can. But they will get it out on the next release."

"Updates are cumulative," he added. "If one [carrier] doesn't get their testing done in time, the next push date comes and it goes out then. Carriers could in fact block updates to sell you a phone. That can happen. But we don't expect that to happen. We are not going to push updates onto carrier networks that they have not tested. Microsoft is being very trusting of the carriers here. This is very different from the situation with Windows Mobile where every phone was very different. With Windows Phone, there is no impact on OEM code, network code, and so on. Yes, there are upgrades that will require a full test pass. But most will not."

I told Belfiore that Microsoft could technically could push updates through their Zune software and bypass the carriers entirely, obviating the silly need to test and retest these updates and make users wait for new functionality. "Who is in control here?" I asked, "the carrier, Microsoft or the user?" His response: "In theory, the user. Carriers get that the end users want this value."

I do not trust the carriers to do the right thing. After all, they never have. But I will wait to see what happens.

Regarding future updates, Microsoft is shipping "a very compelling update very, very soon," I was told. I suspect that means before or for the late October/early November launch.

And as for how these updates will occur, Microsoft (and not the carriers) will host the updates on its own servers. (And go figure, unlocked phones will get the updates directly from Microsoft, bypassing the carrier silliness entirely.) The mechanism for updating is very much like Apple's, Microsoft.

Get it now? Yes, they've been surprisingly clear about the fact that carriers can block updates, but they also promised updates "on a regular cadence like they do on the PC". That's didn't happen. Can you imagine using Windows for five months without one single bug or security fix? It's kinda like that.

 

[Commodore]

Fuck off. Didn't you JUST GET the damn phone? If you don't like the complaining, don't click on this thread. But don't pull up bullshit posts when you haven't had to put up with bugs for many months that should've been patched a long time ago.

I'll give ya that, I'm still a new owner, not nearly as grouchy. Still think his point stands, the holdup at the moment isn't MS, the update is in the carriers hands right now, and who knows for how long.

Any blame MS should receive is for telling everyone anything specific about when the update would hit. They said they'd get it out in the first half of the year and that should have been that.

The scapegoat comment was probably a dumb idea on my part. Right now I'm really digging the phone, easy to forget how most of ya have dealt with a few annoyances for a good chuck of time now. Annoyances + high expectations + carriers being turtles = frustration. Apologies.

 

[Chichikov]

I think directing the frustration toward MS is hinged on the fact that most people have zero expectation of the carriers to do anything but fuck them in the ass.

I hope you're not implying that there was nothing MS could've done to make the process better for the users.

 

[VanMardigan]

Nah, they always said that carriers could do that, even to sell you a new phone. They just didn't expect them to do it.

No, that's not true either. From the very piece you posted:

While Microsoft had previously maintained that it would completely bypass any controls put in place by wireless carriers and update Windows Phones directly, just as they do with Windows-based PCs, that is not the case.

I'll grant you that the carrier blocking was SOMEWHAT clarified before launch, it was still all extremely ambivalent in terms of how much delay carriers would put on the updates. And of course, the expectation of an update shortly after launch was ALWAYS something that MS was comfortable pushing.

edit: commodore-sorry about being too rough there. I still do love Windows Phone as well, but my patience is running thin, and I think yours may as well come May and you still haven't gotten an update. There are quite a few bugs that pop up as you use the phone, some of them are "annoyances", but some are actually detrimental to the user experience, like the marketplace crashes, the Zune crashes, the fact that you can't see images from friends with iPhones via email, bluetooth flakiness, etc.

 

[Commodore]

I think directing the frustration toward MS is hinged on the fact that most people have zero expectation of the carriers to do anything but fuck them in the ass.

I hope you're not implying that there was nothing MS could've done to make the process better for the users.

Sounds like they are still in the freshly minted business arrangement relationship with the carriers, no body wants to step on anybody's toes just yet. They could have bypassed carriers entirely and simply got the out to us likely back when, what was it rumored, December? Given the outcry with the time it's taken to get the update out, maybe they will, maybe they won't. But they should. I think they are learning a few lessons here. Still gonna give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[MCD]

I don't mind having 2 or 3 updates per year like how MS handles the Xbox 360 but carriers blocking is just lame.

 

[Klocker]

No, that's not true either. From the very piece you posted:



I'll grant you that the carrier blocking was SOMEWHAT clarified before launch, it was still all extremely ambivalent in terms of how much delay carriers would put on the updates. And of course, the expectation of an update shortly after launch was ALWAYS something that MS was comfortable pushing.

had previously maintained that it would completely bypass any controls put in place by wireless carriers and update Windows Phones directly, just as they do with Windows-based PCs,

I would like to see those quotes form an MS exec, not some recounting by someone who is now pissed and knows it's easy to poke a bee hive to get a reaction

 

[Chichikov]

Sounds like they are still in the freshly minted business arrangement relationship with the carriers, no body wants to step on anybody's toes just yet. They could have bypassed carriers entirely and simply got the out to us likely back when, what was it rumored, December? Given the outcry with the time it's taken to get the update out, maybe they will, maybe they won't. But they should. I think they are learning a few lessons here. Still gonna give them the benefit of the doubt.

But why me, as a costumer, should give a fuck about that?

And from a practical perspective, the more pissed and vocal people are at this issue, the better the chance MS (or future mobile developers) will get a deal with the carriers that actually benefit us, the end users.

 

[brotkasten]

No, that's not true either. From the very piece you posted:

Ya, ya, I know. Always = since launch. Better?

I'll grant you that the carrier blocking was SOMEWHAT clarified before launch, it was still all extremely ambivalent in terms of how much delay carriers would put on the updates. And of course, the expectation of an update shortly after launch was ALWAYS something that MS was comfortable pushing.

From the piece I posted:
"So its theoretically possible that a carrier, like AT&T, could hold up a big update for a month or more before handing it off to users."

And I think they stopped saying the "update is coming very soon" phrase shortly after launch. They announced C/P at the launch event in October for Q1 2011. And then nothing specific since MWC.


edit:
Short timeline about the official on-stage announcements.

October 11, launch event

CES 2011

""We're realeasing an update soon -- including an update that adds copy and paste, and improves speed. We'll also make the phones avilable on Verizon and Sprint in the first half of 2011.

And of course, MWC 2011

 

[Klocker]

And from a practical perspective, the more pissed and vocal people are at this issue, the better the chance MS (or future mobile developers) will get a deal with the carriers that actually benefit us, the end users.

I usually believe that bitching and moaning to corporations is a ridiculous waste of time but in this case, you might be right. MS is at a point in the market now as they were with the first Xbox...needing to do things differently and make people happy.

Maybe they will take this more seriously if it becomes an economic survival of the ecosystem is at peril.

BUT... I doubt they can do anything to piss off the carriers unless their position in the industry was MUCH stronger. Which, is not going to happen so long as people start jumping ship and claiming FAILURE!

 

[Chichikov]

I usually believe that bitching and moaning to corporations is a ridiculous waste of time but in this case, you might be right. MS is at a point in the market now as they were with the first Xbox...needing to do things differently and make people happy.

Maybe they will take this more seriously if it becomes an economic survival of the ecosystem is at peril.

BUT... I doubt they can do anything to piss off the carriers unless their position in the industry was MUCH stronger. Which, is not going to happen so long as people start jumping ship and claiming FAILURE!

It's not the end users' job help MS get a better deal.
If I wanted to be an unpaid employee of the company I bought my phone from, I would've chosen Apple (I KID! I KID!).

 

[Totakeke]

If WP7 phones had custom roms, there would be much less complaints on their slow updates. WM6.5 had leaked updates all the time and custom roms months before official releases were out. Of course, based on what's happening with Android, more and more manufacturers are trying to lock their bootloaders down and prevent custom roms.

I'm probably more in awe that every manufacturer and carrier seems to more and more bent on screwing the customers and they're all in this together.

 

[VanMardigan]

Ya, ya, I know. Always = since launch. Better?


From the piece I posted:
"So its theoretically possible that a carrier, like AT&T, could hold up a big update for a month or more before handing it off to users."

And I think they stopped saying the "update is coming very soon" phrase shortly after launch. They announced C/P at the launch event in October for Q1 2011. And then nothing else since MWC.

By then, it was too late for those who bought it at launch. And even those who, like me, didn't buy right at launch, the situation was murky enough that there was still the expectation that carriers wouldn't be delaying updates any.

For the folks who weren't following along all this time, here's another article from that same time frame (November) that shows just how obtuse MS was about this entire process, basically stringing users along on false hopes: Microsoft taking direct route on Windows Phone updates

 

[Chichikov]

I'm probably more in awe that every manufacturer and carrier seems to more and more bent on screwing the customers and they're all in this together.

Don't worry though, once they all buy each other they wouldn't even need to engage in collusion.

 

[Commodore]

But why me, as a costumer, should give a fuck about that?

And from a practical perspective, the more pissed and vocal people are at this issue, the better the chance MS (or future mobile developers) will get a deal with the carriers that actually benefit us, the end users.

Possibly. We could wish for a business arrangement where the carriers have to trust the OS engineers to make updates that won't hurt the network they are used on, but the carriers have their own set of worries, and want control over when things happen to possibly maximize sales in one way or another, or to safeguard a possible deliberating aspect of an update and might hurt the overall network. I don't know. But as consumers we want things we like NOW. Who's the blame in this? Everyone.

Sucks. I hope this first round of updates helps to streamline the process for the much bigger update later on in the year. I hope MS takes the side of the consumers next round over the carriers, changes their update schedules to accommodate small annoyances versus packing it all in to one big update. I hope the carriers will stop being bastards. I hope the platform gains traction and continues to improve on an already solid base.

 

[VanMardigan]

Possibly. We could wish for a business arrangement where the carriers have to trust the OS engineers to make updates that won't hurt the network they are used on, but the carriers have their own set of worries, and want control over when things happen to possibly maximize sales in one way or another, or to safeguard a possible deliberating aspect of an update and might hurt the overall network.

This argument has already been refuted. You can buy an unlocked GSM phone, put your AT&T sim, and be good to go. You can do this with a phone whether you are on contract or pay-as-you-go. You could buy a Nexus One from Google last year that got its updates directly from Google and allowed free tethering on AT&T's network. If they were seriously worried about their precious network being "hurt" by faulty phone OS', none of these scenarios would exist. The truth is, they sold you the phone and subsidized it, so in their mind it means they can do whatever they want, including drag their feet on updates that essentially blocks the user from getting them.

Apple saw this from a mile away and worked an agreement that didn't allow this. Microsoft saw this just the same, and did not. They then spent the unveiling, the launch, and every other moment up until this week obfuscating the issue and making users believe that things were in fact closer to Apple's model.

 

[brotkasten]

By then, it was too late for those who bought it at launch. And even those who, like me, didn't buy right at launch, the situation was murky enough that there was still the expectation that carriers wouldn't be delaying updates any.

Too late? That's from Thurrot's review, almost a month before anyone could buy a WP7 (October 15). But of course nobody expected that to happen. Everyone was drunk and high on hype and overly optimistic, because our common sense told us they couldn't fuck this one up.

For the folks who weren't following along all this time, here's another article from that same time frame (November) that shows just how obtuse MS was about this entire process, basically stringing users along on false hopes: Microsoft taking direct route on Windows Phone updates

Nothing has changed since that article. Microsoft is the one who pushes the updates to the end user, not the OEM or carrier and everyone will get the updates. Or did I miss something else?

I hope this first round of updates helps to streamline the process for the much bigger update later on in the year. I hope MS takes the side of the consumers next round over the carriers, changes their update schedules to accommodate small annoyances versus packing it all in to one big update. I hope the carriers will stop being bastards. I hope the platform gains traction and continues to improve on an already solid base.

I think (or hope) Microsoft got the message. Just take a look at the official Windows Phone blog. Every post since the official delay has been down-ranked into oblivion and the latest post about NoDo has over 270 comments and most of them are obviously negative.

 

[VanMardigan]

Nothing has changed since that article. Microsoft is the one who pushes the updates to the end user, not the OEM or carrier and everyone will get the updates. Or did I miss something else?

Yes, you missed the part where you read the article. With hindsight you can say "hey, none of that means the carriers can't delay updates indefinitely, the author got the wrong impression!!!" but the truth is, as I've been saying all along, that MS purposely muddled the update issue to give an impression that things would be different with WP7. The Thurrot article shows the spin, every other article shows that as well.

Here's yet ANOTHER article from Ars Technica. They reference Thurrot, but its clear that NO ONE had a clear understanding, and all MS did was perpetuate the idea that their updates would be speedy, that they would in fact be an advantage of WP7 vs. Android because of their centralized nature.