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[Shengar]

Dragon Age's lore is absolutely incredible in my opinion. Arguably the strongest part of the series. But alas, to each their own.

Dragon's Age lore is one of my personal favorite fantasy lore out there. At least, until DA2 where they changed a lot on the art style and direction.

There are a few in there that are genuine, sure. The companion quests where you collect things or eliminate enemies for example are definitely quests and exist as a checklist of sorts. Similarly I think it was ridiculous to tie the specialization quest to a Requisition that needed gathered mats.

If the negatives outweigh the positives, of course it would called out again and again. One interesting side quest among plethora of bad ones doesn't automatically makes the simple checklist fetch-quest disappeared (and also vice versa). If you have to dug through a lot of bad quest to get a good one, then we have a problem here.

 

[Ralemont]

Yes you would, because those quests have busywork requisites attached. So for every one you hold up as an example, you also showcase a half hour to several hours of boring "content" by induction. I'm sure your theoretical argument would very likely not feature this aspect of the game.

You're right, it wouldn't, since I would be as intent on selective sampling as the before image was. Which is why I have not made such an image: because it's stupid and gets quoted out of context.

You only get a handful of "good" quests for free in this game. Not even the main quest line is free.

The main questline shouldn't be free. The story is about the Inquisition's rise to power, and the story missions assume some degree of progress in this area between quests. The story doesn't make sense at a basic level unless the later missions are locked behind Power. Power, in general, is done very well in this game. But there are some zones that need a Crestwood-level "main" side quest badly and are lacking, which is why I said earlier that I believe the side quest design needs a lot of work for DA4. But there's a big jump between that and saying that the game is almost all shard collecting. It's not.

If the negatives outweigh the positives, of course it would called out again and again. One interesting side quest among plethora of bad ones doesn't automatically makes the simple checklist fetch-quest disappeared (and also vice versa). If you have to dug through a lot of bad quest to get a good one, then we have a problem here.

I did not feel like I had to dig through a lot of bad quests to get a good one. It's quite obvious what is a quest with a story attached and what isn't. In terms of pure ratio, there are certainly more do X/X quests than ones that revolve around a story to tell.

 

[Renekton]

It's good that CDP set themselves to a very high bar.

Boasts engaging quests and melts PCs to boot.

 

[His Majesty]

Basically, when Star Wars: The Old Republic has put more thought and care put into its sidequests, you should know you're in trouble. (Yes, although the tasks are comparable, SWTOR actually has more roleplaying significance to each sidequest. And this is from only one class story playthrough, not all of them.)

You would at least expect Bioware to recreate the quality of SWTOR sidequests (which wasn't that great to begin with but still better than most MMO's). I still find it baffling that the quality of sidequests in DAI is so outrageously bad compared to another MMO, The Secret World.

 

[Axiom]

I enjoyed Dragon Age: Inquisition quite a bit and never really got into The Witcher series as the first kept bugging out on me.

However hearing a quest designer cite New Vegas makes me way the hell more interested in The Witcher 3.

Yes, I've beaten both New Vegas and V:TM Bloodlines and yet Witcher was the game that was just too buggy for me. Computers are so weird.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Good to hear TW3 will likely have strong quest design. If only I had any hopes about the combat, alas...

Ultimately, I don't think "optional" works that well as an excuse.

First of all, he cites New Vegas, which also had lots of optional quests that were still high-quality and meaningful.

Second, it's not easy for the player to know beforehand if an optional quest is worth doing or not. If the player can only avoid bad optional quests by avoiding ALL optional quests (including the good stuff), that's a problem. Game designers should curate their content; they shouldn't just throw in everything possible and leave it to player to sort out what's good and what's not.

Finally, bad optional quests can bring down the quality of good core quests. A bad quest can make otherwise potentially interesting activities (say, fighting a particular type of enemy) less interesting through repetition. Fighting a cool demon in a core quest might be fine on its own, but if you've already fought many similar, less cool demons throughout hours of optional quests? It won't be nearly as fresh.

I hate this excuse. Just because a part of the game is optional doesn't mean it should be lazy. Especially in an RPG where those "optional" quests are a big component of the game.

Great posts. So sick of hearing the "b-b-but it's optional!" excuse. It might be a valid excuse if said fetch quests didn't make up 90% of the game content and it were just the one or two side-quests, but even then, there's no reason why optional content shouldn't be good. My favourite level of all the Souls games is 100% optional after all (Painted World of Ariamis).

Maybe Dark Souls III should* have tons of empty side rooms everywhere with empty tunnels, and a small Great Warrior Soul as loot in the middle of each (sometimes it might even be a Legendary Warrior Soul!). When told that hey, these rooms are boring and pointless and their reward is rather feeble, we'd say, "it's optional! what's your problem, just skip them!".

* I don't actually think it should

Good words to hear. New Vegas has the best quest design of any rpg I've played.

I have to agree. I am really underwhelmed by side-quest design in open-world games in general, but F:NV pretty much blew me away. And that's all thanks to the quality of its writing.

Granted, if your idea of a fetch quest is simply "go somewhere and get an item" then FNV has plenty of them. The mission structure itself is not the issue, it's how the dialogue and context around the mission is handled that's important.

Absolutely.

Take and example from... say, Destiny (lawl). I played the beta and I remember having a side-quest where they told me to go to some crash site and scan the area. So I say, OK, let's see what we have. I follow the marker until I find the ship wreckage. Then Dinklebot (I think) tells me to scan and I get a button prompt. I held the Scan button for a few seconds, until it said "Scan 100% complete", and Dinklebot said "Scan is all done. Good job!". And then the mission was marked as completed and disappeared from my log.

...That was literally it. Go to the place on the map, hold a button, done. Why did I have to scan this wreckage? Who wanted this information? What will they do with the scan data? Is there something noteworthy about this ship, should I explore around? All these questions, no one in the game even asked. Needless to say, it did not encourage me to pick up any more missions (or the actual game when it came out). If the game had provided an actual context, or something of a challenge around this "scan this wreckage" mission, it would have made a huge difference.

At the end of the day, most quests can be reduced down to going to/exploring <place>, collecting <item(s)>, speaking to <NPC(s)>, etc. And perhaps with some back and forth between those things. But what makes them fun is how they're written, and the many ways they can be solved. F:NV did that amazingly well, though I wish it had actually fewer possibilities for each quests if it meant the game was less buggy overall. All those interconnected NPCs and quest resolutions often caused massive bugs, sadly.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

Part of the problem here, as evidenced by that inane RPG Codex image, is that some things are being called quests which aren't meant to be quests. Requisitions aren't meant to be quests. They are a way to gain additional Power and they never pretend to be otherwise. It's crafted Power, just like you can buy Power at the merchant. Similarly, camps aren't quests. They are simply a consequence of exploring the map. Ditto for landmarks, but those also give you some lore about the surrounding area (but fuck lore, because that's not interesting right?).

I feel like a big part of the problem with Inquisition is that the game does a poor job communicating that fact to the player- that requisitions are only cheap ways to gain power. They dress them up early on just enough to think that maybe there will be some story/cosmetic or gameplay effect from doing them. But there never is.

Inquisition does have some very very bad mindless questing, though. The shards are truly bottom of the barrel when it comes to creative quest design. There are also quests like building watchtowers in the Hinterlands that are not really compelling since they amount to "go here and press X."

I feel like those are particularly insidious because it sort of seems like those might be interesting or have some payoff, like with the shards. Great you can use them to unlock passages in a mysterious temple! But the temple is about as banal as you can get.

At the same time, the Hinterlands has interesting quests like converting the Cult of the Breach down in the south of the Hinterlands to the Inquisition's side. But stuff like that never gets brought up because it's not convenient to the narrative. Still, I agree with the general sentiment that the side quest design needs significant work for the next DA.

Any of those slightly more narrative driven side quests are just completely drowned out amidst the sheer volume of the collectable, copy/paste quests that are stifling all of the zones.

And then even when you do hit a somewhat story driven sidequest like the Cult or Crestwood, I feel like the lack of any traditional cutscene view for dialogue really hurts the impression those left on me. That sort of really basic over the shoulder MMO view you get stuck with in dialogue just killed those quests for me. I'm not saying they needed huge elaborate cutscenes but just some basic talking head style back and forth dialogue scenes like Origins where you can actually see who you're speaking to would have done wonders.

 

[Denton]

He really put himself out there on that one.

They actually did that on first day of the reveal, when talking with game informer:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...he-open-world-of-the-witcher-3-wild-hunt.aspx

And Konrad nails it of course.

 

[aliengmr]

The problem with DA:I (which I love btw) is that the only reason the quests are there is to level up. Save for a hand full of side-quests that are somewhat important to the story, you can go through each of the main quests and the outcome is the same.

I also wish there was a deeper "origin" story for each race/class like DA:O. Really helped me take on a different perspective.

As for Witcher 3, well, I'm keeping my hype in check. But this is good news.

 

[jadjei]

is this an appropriate image?

I hate fetch quests!

Lol it's perfect.

 

[synce]

That's basically every RPG today, or at least the ones I've had the displeasure of trying

 

[thuGG_pl]

I finished DA:I two days ago, and yes mostly it's a big fetch quest, collect these shard, collect that and bring me that all the time. Oh, and close these number of rifts. Not very interesting, I'm kind of asking myself why I finished it.

 

[Nabbis]

I feel like the fetch quests would not have been such an issue if itemization and the combat was actually good. As it stands now, it's just a disappointment in all of those areas. I hope they don't try to put that shit out there again. Though paradoxically, it's probably my GOTY last year due to how i enjoyed everything else.

 

[jimboton]

I don't see how Fallout: NV questing is significantly different to DA:I when all you do in practice is follow a waypoint marker. It's just better written and thus it's 'fetchiness' is more disguised. Which is probably the best we can expect for Witcher 3.

 

[Varna]

I don't see how Fallout: NV questing is significantly different to DA:I when all you do in practice is follow a waypoint marker. It's just better written and thus it's 'fetchiness' is more disguised. Which is probably the best we can expect for Witcher 3.

Someone post that quest flow chart please...

Not that there wasn't more simple quest as well.

 

[RangerX]

I must be one of the only people who preferred fallout 3 to NV. The capital wasteland was far superior to the mojave desert.

 

[Dick Justice]

Someone post that quest flow chart please...

Not that there wasn't more simple quest as well.

 

[TrebuchetGames]

I must be one of the only people who preferred fallout 3 to NV. The capital wasteland was far superior to the mojave desert.

Indeed, I loved FO3, couldn't get into NV and have tried multiple times, the location in FO3 was so much more interesting.

Yeah fetch quests are fine in the context of the story, but when its collect 20 cow hides because bob wont do business with you otherwise, (just made that up as an example) then it gets a bit boring.

Still be interested to see how the quests hold up in W3.

Still waiting for someone to match Elder Scrolls for it's people going to work/sleep routine system...seems missing from most RPG type games these days.

 

[misho8723]

Indeed, I loved FO3, couldn't get into NV and have tried multiple times, the location in FO3 was so much more interesting.

Yeah fetch quests are fine in the context of the story, but when its collect 20 cow hides because bob wont do business with you otherwise, (just made that up as an example) then it gets a bit boring.

Still be interested to see how the quests hold up in W3.

Still waiting for someone to match Elder Scrolls for it's people going to work/sleep routine system...seems missing from most RPG type games these days.

Ehmm.. even Gothic II has more believable and more living world than any TES game

 

[kvn]

He cited Gothic. Will buy day one.

 

[Isendurl]

Still waiting for someone to match Elder Scrolls for it's people going to work/sleep routine system...seems missing from most RPG type games these days.

Both Gothics and both previous Witchers already surpassed TES in living world simulation.

 

[-tetsuo-]

I did not feel like I had to dig through a lot of bad quests to get a good one. It's quite obvious what is a quest with a story attached and what isn't. In terms of pure ratio, there are certainly more do X/X quests than ones that revolve around a story to tell.

You have to be lucky then. I have played like 20ish hours and have not seen a single interesting side quest yet. Not even remotely close to a good one. Which quest are you talking about trying to convert the cultist? The one where they let you in and you close a rift and they join you? Please tell me you aren't talking about that.

The game is purely regressive from a side questing standpoint. You don't even have to go as far back as BG2 to see the insane regression. If the combat was better to go along with better character building it might be ok the have side content that was basically there to push you into fights. But it isn't, so it sucks.

 

[jimboton]

Someone post that quest flow chart please...

Not that there wasn't more simple quest as well.

Funny thing is that when that flowchart says things like 'Locate the investigator in his room' or 'Find a way to gain access to the members only section' you're not really locating anything or finding a way to do anything.. you're just following a quest marker. But look, when you speak to people you can select a different dialogue option to get a slightly different GPS marker next! Much choice, so consequence!

And some of those choices: 'Use [Barter 55] to get the receipe' vs 'Use [Speech 55] to get the receipe'. Please. You don't even need to know which skill you need to use, the game hands you even that.

 

[Camp Freddie]

He's absolutely right.

DA:I was good but most of the time you're either collecting the flags/shards/camps/astrolabs/companion-items or doing a really paper-thin quest.

It's not about 'fetch quests' but rather how involved you are in the quest and how involved the quest is in the overall story. Most DA:I side quests involve no choices, are not interconnected, are forgotten by everyone as soom as they are complete, and often involve no real interaction beyond a single line of dialogue. I just don't care about it, so most of the the quests get treated the same way as a random collectible (i.e. just grab them for XP/power/influence).

FO:NV was great at resisting the fetch this because it's an icon on your map mentality (one might even say it succeeded at absammelresistenten). Even the simple quests made sense and you never felt like you were just ticking a box to get your XP.
And you never knew which quests would just be done and which were stage 1 in a 10 part series, so you treated them all with respect.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Funny thing is that when that flowchart says things like 'Locate the investigator in his room' or 'Find a way to gain access to the members only section' you're not really locating anything or finding a way to do anything.. you're just following a quest marker. But look, when you speak to people you can select a different dialogue option to get a slightly different GPS marker next! Much choice, so consequence!

And some of those choices: 'Use [Barter 55] to get the receipe' vs 'Use [Speech 55] to get the receipe'. Please. You don't even need to know which skill you need to use, the game hands you even that.

Yes, you've nailed it exactly. DAI's sidequests manage to be even worse than the simplicity that is Fallout: New Vegas' sidequests. For something so easy, it's hard to believe Bioware missed the mark so completely.

DAI's current condition is almost pitiful, really.

 

[Kimaka]

He's absolutely right.

DA:I was good but most of the time you're either collecting the flags/shards/camps/astrolabs/companion-items or doing a really paper-thin quest.

It's not about 'fetch quests' but rather how involved you are in the quest and how involved the quest is in the overall story. Most DA:I side quests involve no choices, are not interconnected, are forgotten by everyone as soom as they are complete, and often involve no real interaction beyond a single line of dialogue. I just don't care about it, so most of the the quests get treated the same way as a random collectible (i.e. just grab them for XP/power/influence).

FO:NV was great at resisting the fetch this because it's an icon on your map mentality (one might even say it succeeded at absammelresistenten). Even the simple quests made sense and you never felt like you were just ticking a box to get your XP.
And you never knew which quests would just be done and which were stage 1 in a 10 part series, so you treated them all with respect.

Exactly. No amount of letters or diary entries can make DA:I's side quests interesting because the player has no interaction with the quest beyond doing with the NPC says. DA:I's side quests are the equivalent to getting a quest in an MMO, choosing accept, and following the arrow. I can read the quest log to find out that NPC #213 wants me to kill some bandits because they are terrorizing the villagers, but it doesn't matter to me because all I will be doing is killing X amount of guys anyway. I don't want to waste my time with every codex entry trying to figure out the context of the situation when I cannot offer my opinion on it or solve the quest my own way.

 

[Altairre]

You would at least expect Bioware to recreate the quality of SWTOR sidequests (which wasn't that great to begin with but still better than most MMO's). I still find it baffling that the quality of sidequests in DAI is so outrageously bad compared to another MMO, The Secret World.

You know, quite a few of the sidequests in SWTOR are actually pretty good but what absolutely destroys them is the structure, same with Secret World. Now Secret World at least has the investigation quests which are different if somewhat absurd a lot of the time. What SWTOR and Secret World do better is the setup and in SWTOR's case the choices.

Secret World has awesome cutscenes at the start and end of a quest but then you're just killing x of y or click on three blinking things because it's an MMO and fuck we were so exhausted after writing the quest dialogue that we couldn't be bothered to design tasks that are at least somewhat engaging.

SWTOR doesn't have investigation quests but you can choose how to react. I'm playing an Inquisitor at the moment and there is a cursed temple relatively early on that has multiple sidequests with a neat setup. A worker that thinks he's a sith lord and sends you to find his padawan who actually is a Sith lord, then you find a message from one of the Sith who's buried there and who was investigating the light side, there is a weird slave cult and all of those quests involve choices. To solve those quests though you have to kill x of y and click on three blinking things. And since it's an MMO the required kills and interactions with blinking things are way too many (same with Secret World).

Not even the best setup can prevent the feeling of grind after a while and that's a bummer because what a waste of potential. That's pretty much the problem I have with MMOs and open world games in general. Let me solve quests just through talking, or let me actually find things, solve puzzles and at the very least have a decent combat system.

In the end I enjoy the gameplay in Inquisition way more than in SWTOR and Secret World because those games have MMO combat of the worst kind. Inquisition at least let's you move around (played a ranger), set stuff up (even if it can be clunky) and the skills and some of the combinations are actually satisfying to use. I only played as much of Original Sin because the combat was great, since I wasn't into the writing.

Good writing, good quest design, good combat, if you're lucky you can choose two.

 

[Ralemont]

You have to be lucky then. I have played like 20ish hours and have not seen a single interesting side quest yet. Not even remotely close to a good one. Which quest are you talking about trying to convert the cultist? The one where they let you in and you close a rift and they join you? Please tell me you aren't talking about that.

That's the one I mentioned. It incorporates Rift-closing and Agent recruiting, while also giving you alternatives for the Cult if you don't want them to join the Inquisition. The quest and its result is also a microcosm for the way the Hinterlands evolves as you progress through it, with refugee camps popping up the more you do, more people discussing the Inquisition, more War Table operations opening up, etc. On its own, it can't hold up to the level of detail given to many side quests in New Vegas, but New Vegas sidesteps the entire rise to power process by gifting you the keys to the kingdom from the start. On the flipside, in Inquisition the Inquisition actually needs to be the power that incrementally takes over these zones and restores order, otherwise the political clout it displays in later story missions doesn't make sense. And since you have the anchor, you need to be the one out there doing it.

I think what would have been a better way of implementing this idea, though, is concentrating on having a few big side quests in each zone that represent a larger change for the area, such as closing the giant Rift in Crestwood or solving the Red Templar crisis in the Emprise, rather than focus on changing a bunch of little things in each zone that adds up to a substantial difference. It's entirely possible that this is not simply possible resource-wise, considering the vast amount of voice work and dialogue lines the game already contains. If that's the case, then I'd probably prefer fewer zones with more concentrated story quests in the future.

And then even when you do hit a somewhat story driven sidequest like the Cult or Crestwood, I feel like the lack of any traditional cutscene view for dialogue really hurts the impression those left on me. That sort of really basic over the shoulder MMO view you get stuck with in dialogue just killed those quests for me. I'm not saying they needed huge elaborate cutscenes but just some basic talking head style back and forth dialogue scenes like Origins where you can actually see who you're speaking to would have done wonders.

Yeah, I agree. Even putting a face on a lot of these NPCs you talk to by having the traditional zoom would have made a difference. I don't even care if you have special animations in the scenes or not, so long as it makes the conversation feel more important. I mean hell, Fairbanks is essentially a non-entity in terms of presence that somehow becomes the most important NPC in the Emerald Graves.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Funny thing is that when that flowchart says things like 'Locate the investigator in his room' or 'Find a way to gain access to the members only section' you're not really locating anything or finding a way to do anything.. you're just following a quest marker. But look, when you speak to people you can select a different dialogue option to get a slightly different GPS marker next! Much choice, so consequence!

And some of those choices: 'Use [Barter 55] to get the receipe' vs 'Use [Speech 55] to get the receipe'. Please. You don't even need to know which skill you need to use, the game hands you even that.

The difference being the choice is for the player to make in what action to take, and each one drives you along a different path. Speaking to people is one way, blowing people away is another. A lot of times stealth can be an option as well. There is choice, there are layers. Even your character building choices come into play with those dialogue choices you seem to think are throwaway. The fact that it lets you know if you will succeed or not is not very consequential. That does not even exist in Dragon Age. That layer is gone entirely from the game and immediately takes one of the options that are available in New Vegas away from both the designers and the players.

That's the one I mentioned. It incorporates Rift-closing and Agent recruiting, while also giving you alternatives for the Cult if you don't want them to join the Inquisition. The quest and its result is also a microcosm for the way the Hinterlands evolves as you progress through it, with refugee camps popping up the more you do, more people discussing the Inquisition, more War Table operations opening up, etc. On its own, it can't hold up to the level of detail given to many side quests in New Vegas, but New Vegas sidesteps the entire rise to power process by gifting you the keys to the kingdom from the start. On the flipside, in Inquisition the Inquisition actually needs to be the power that incrementally takes over these zones and restores order, otherwise the political clout it displays in later story missions doesn't make sense. And since you have the anchor, you need to be the one out there doing it.

I think what would have been a better way of implementing this idea, though, is concentrating on having a few big side quests in each zone that represent a larger change for the area, such as closing the giant Rift in Crestwood or solving the Red Templar crisis in the Emprise, rather than focus on changing a bunch of little things in each zone that adds up to a substantial difference. It's entirely possible that this is not simply possible resource-wise, considering the vast amount of voice work and dialogue lines the game already contains. If that's the case, then I'd probably prefer fewer zones with more concentrated story quests in the future.

Your 2nd paragraph hits on what I mean. The implications of consequence of that quest is almost throwaway. You get more operations on the war table but that amount to highlighting it and sending an agent to complete it a vast majority of the time. That just is not very interesting. The problem is that a quest, on its own, can be interesting to participate in and still have all of the stuff you talked about. The quest just are not, though. The very definition of quantity over quality and that really never is a good thing.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Haha, I forgot you could recruit agents for the Inquisition. That was such an odd inclusion.

I really hope TW3 avoids half-baked minigames, but at the same time I want a Witcher's 3 B's to be represented in the game. (brawling, betting, and brew-drinking)

 

[Altairre]

Haha, I forgot you could recruit agents for the Inquisition. That was such an odd inclusion.

I really hope TW3 avoids half-baked minigames, but at the same time I want a Witcher's 3 B's to be represented in the game. (brawling, betting, and brew-drinking)

You know what, fuck it. Go all out instead of avoiding it and incorporate those minigames into the sidequests. Give me a brawl at the end instead of having to kill somebody or let me use drinking/betting as a way to get information. I don't mind if they don't have the greatest mechanics as long as they break up the usual structure.

 

[SixMachine]

I would like to see a AAA try their hand at making missions like The Secret World's investigation missions aka google and wikipedia simulator. I would be impressed if someone completed them without some assistance (you need to look up a book's ISBN off amazon on one mission). I hope you are up to date on morse code, egyptian heiroglyphics, romanian language, bible passages and dead composers!

 

[Dick Justice]

Funny thing is that when that flowchart says things like 'Locate the investigator in his room' or 'Find a way to gain access to the members only section' you're not really locating anything or finding a way to do anything.. you're just following a quest marker. But look, when you speak to people you can select a different dialogue option to get a slightly different GPS marker next! Much choice, so consequence!

And some of those choices: 'Use [Barter 55] to get the receipe' vs 'Use [Speech 55] to get the receipe'. Please. You don't even need to know which skill you need to use, the game hands you even that.

And guess what? It makes for a more interesting experience than "take a letter off a dead body and deliver it to someone".

 

[SixMachine]

And guess what? It makes for a more interesting experience than "take a letter off a dead body and deliver it to someone".

Secret World also made this step decent for some quests. There are typical just deliver something to someone, but sometimes you just get a description. One mission required you to find a murderer and you eventually learn his description so you had to find him and /accuse him.

 

[Altairre]

I would like to see a AAA try their hand at making missions like The Secret World's investigation missions aka google and wikipedia simulator. I would be impressed if someone completed them without some assistance (you need to look up a book's ISBN off amazon on one mission). I hope you are up to date on morse code, egyptian heiroglyphics, romanian language, bible passages and dead composers!

I remember one where you had to do certain emotes while standing in front of different statues to open a secret door. Blew my mind. Those quests were nuts and impossible to solve without looking stuff up.

 

[RK9039]

Haha, I forgot you could recruit agents for the Inquisition. That was such an odd inclusion.

I really hope TW3 avoids half-baked minigames, but at the same time I want a Witcher's 3 B's to be represented in the game. (brawling, betting, and brew-drinking)

There's going to be a card game right? I heard it's supposed to be pretty good, you can collect cards throughout the game.

 

[HK-47]

There's going to be a card game right? I heard it's supposed to be pretty good, you can collect cards throughout the game.

I assume poker dice is back as well. Its a series staple.

 

[His Majesty]

I assume poker dice is back as well. Its a series staple.

They replaced the poker dice with the Gwent card game, should be more about skill and less about luck now. Brawling makes a return and apparently there's also horse racing. Don't know what to think about that last one. It sucked in Two Worlds 2 and in Inquisition, probably will suck here too.

A sidenote on the Secret World quests: a lot of them are kill x, fetch y, yes. But contrary to Inquisition, they have an interesting set-up.

 

[HK-47]

They replaced the poker dice with the Gwent card game, should be more about skill and less about luck now. Brawling makes a return and apparently there's also horse racing. Don't know what to think about that last one. It sucked in Two Worlds 2 and in Inquisition, probably will suck here too.

Thats to bad. I felt a low skill gambling game like that is really fitting for the setting.

 

[Dominic_Shade]

They replaced the poker dice with the Gwent card game, should be more about skill and less about luck now. Brawling makes a return and apparently there's also horse racing.

Aw, I loved dice poker. I used to get ridiculously hyped over it. I can't count the number of times I rolled my dice off the board out of sheer excitement.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Funny thing is that when that flowchart says things like 'Locate the investigator in his room' or 'Find a way to gain access to the members only section' you're not really locating anything or finding a way to do anything.. you're just following a quest marker. But look, when you speak to people you can select a different dialogue option to get a slightly different GPS marker next! Much choice, so consequence!

And some of those choices: 'Use [Barter 55] to get the receipe' vs 'Use [Speech 55] to get the receipe'. Please. You don't even need to know which skill you need to use, the game hands you even that.

Wait, you mean to tell me that a computer game has limited functionality when it comes to imitating the real world?

 

[Unai]

I love games with card games built in, like FFVIII and IX, and some digimon on PSX. I hope this one will be good as well. I can see myself playing it a lot.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Heh, that's awesome. Was one of my favourite quests too, the whole cannibal thing was so creepy yet hilarious.

Wait, you mean to tell me that a computer game has limited functionality when it comes to imitating the real world?

lol, yeah seriously I don't know what the hell he wants. It's far and beyond what just about every other RPG can offer in terms of choices, branching paths and different resolutions.

And guess what? It makes for a more interesting experience than "take a letter off a dead body and deliver it to someone".

Verily.

 

[LurkerPrime]

I love games with card games built in, like FFVIII and IX, and some digimon on PSX. I hope this one will be good as well. I can see myself playing it a lot.

FF8's card game is so great. Strategic and cool while also being fun. I bet they could've released a full-fledged game around the thing.

Actually, speaking of Final Fantasy, FF7 is one of the earliest games that I played where I really thought "these sidequests and minigames are awesome." Arena battles, chocobo ranching, a primitive MOBA, the Omega weapon hunt, and whole party members (probably more too) all contained outside of the main story. Sure, it wasn't all perfect, but as a whole it only added to the game. FF7 & co. should be the standard for side content, rather than repeat-a-quests following the dire MMO school of design.

 

[Dick Justice]

Secret World also made this step decent for some quests. There are typical just deliver something to someone, but sometimes you just get a description. One mission required you to find a murderer and you eventually learn his description so you had to find him and /accuse him.

I found the side quests to be incredibly interesting, but I still had to use guides because they were obtuse as hell, at least for me

 

[Dark_castle]

While it's true that DA:I did have a lot of fetch quests, I honestly don't appreciate a developer trash talk another to make their game look good.

 

[Exentryk]

FF8's card game is so great. Strategic and cool while also being fun. I bet they could've released a full-fledged game around the thing.

Yup, Triple Triad is my favourite ever mini game in a game. I spent more time playing this card game than the actual game itself lol.
Also, SE is releasing (already out for Japan) a mobile app which lets you play Triple Triad.

So, yeah, I enjoy my mini games in RPGs, and am looking forward to seeing how good Gwent is. It does sound more along the lines of the Magic series though.

While it's true that DA:I did have a lot of fetch quests, I honestly don't appreciate a developer trash talk another to make their game look good.

He's only answering the question honestly. I see no issue.

 

[PFD]

While it's true that DA:I did have a lot of fetch quests, I honestly don't appreciate a developer trash talk another to make their game look good.

"DA Inquisition is a good game" is now trash talk

Also, Pazaak was awesome

 

[Yasae]

While it's true that DA:I did have a lot of fetch quests, I honestly don't appreciate a developer trash talk another to make their game look good.

While it's true that DA:I did have a lot of fetch quests

DA:I did have a lot of fetch quests

It did.

 

[jimboton]

Wait, you mean to tell me that a computer game has limited functionality when it comes to imitating the real world?

I mean to tell you that some modern computer games have limited functionality when it comes to respecting the player's intelligence.

lol, yeah seriously I don't know what the hell he wants. It's far and beyond what just about every other RPG can offer in terms of choices, branching paths and different resolutions.

.

How about making you actually solve the quests instead of following waypoints and reading/choosing how your clever and powerful character goes about solving those quests? I'm such a dreamer I know.