With Wii-Cafe, is it time for Mario and classic Nintendo franchise to evolve?
- Thread starter beast786
- Start date
Faddy said:
I was with you until the very last sentence. I don't for a second believe that high quality ( and what I'm assuming you mean ) high sales are correlated, unless you mean randomly and/or inversely ( obvioulsy not 100% ).
Too much in this industry is based on marketing and marketing alone, take a shit game and "convince" the majority that it's the best thing since sliced bread and you can rest assured it'll sell those millions. Which also subsequently leads to the opinion of the majority not mattering at all when it comes to quality.
Tell me tomorrow that Pirates of the Carribean 15 broke a billion in the box office and I wouldn't doubt you nor would I for a second think it's a good movie.
Again, no one here has this mentality. The one person who brought sales into the discussion used it to argue against the Nintendo games. It may be difficult for you to understand, but it is possible to keep subjective opinions (personal preferences) and objective fact (sales data) apart and only discuss one thing or or the other.Corky said:
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
this particular discussion is especially humorous when publishers are publicly pissing themselves in fear when discussing trying to compete with nintendo's software.
Vinci said:
But did you enjoy one over the other because of its sales data? Or because , you know, your opinion is that game x>y. That's what I'm trying to get across, maybe my first point might be taken as sales are totally irrelevant ( obviously they aren't ) but they are totally irrelevant to the quality of the franchise. Random example, you think all the money made from MW1 went to make MW2 better? If anything it went to make the game sell more. Which again doesn't matter squat to explain if a game is good or not.
Jokeropia said:
Again with the selfdefence, I read that dudes post and I disagree with him to 100%, and again I never pointed that finger at you. I made a blanket statement saying there are many people with those views, those were not aimed at you nor anyone in particular here. But I guess it's difficult for you to understand.
Corky said:
Considering I bought and played it mostly before I even knew about its sales data, I'm going to have to say it had nothing to do with it. I enjoyed playing it with my best friend, my wife, and my kids. It was just goofy fun. But since I'm not a big racing fan, I tend to grow tired of even good racers within a month or so... and that's what happened there. And frankly, I never gave a damn how much Gran Turismo sold - I hated that game.
No kidding. For what it's worth, Modern Warfare games can sell till the end of time, it still doesn't make me like them. The fact that SpaceChem likely hasn't sold amazing numbers hasn't stopped me from thinking it kicks most games' asses these days.
I couldn't care less. Honestly. What Activision does with the money stemming from its cash cow isn't my concern since I don't care about the series. Obviously it doesn't seem to bother many of its players - it keeps selling iteration after iteration.
Vinci said:
Well said.
Yes I agree. Just as anykind of nintendo 1st party title might 200 million and believe or not ( yeah put down those graphs/sales data ) some people don't like them either. Just generally speaking.
Again, I agree.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
I feel like I need a report on how the data was gathered before I make any conclusions.beast786 said:
I'd like to suggest something: Sales Agers, or people like me who casually follow data but don't get too wrapped up into it, enjoy tracking sales numbers and trends. It's a hobby. But I highly doubt any of them has based his or her own personal tastes on what sells and that's it. Yes, people are glad when a game they enjoy does well - that's natural. I wish SpaceChem would sell more (FFS, people, at least demo it!). If it were to, I'd likely get another game like it.
I don't care about sales first and games second. I don't care if there's another Modern Warfare or COD game, nor do I lie awake at night and wonder if there'll be another Gran Turismo or Metal Gear Solid. Angry Birds doesn't strike my fancy either.
So yeah, I think this myth about 'sales first, games second' when it comes to Sales Agers is just that... a myth. Just as I think Wii users unfairly judged HD fans as graphics morons who didn't care about gameplay. That was massively unfair, as many HD games have great gameplay.
Of course. And you know? I don't have an issue with you if you hate Mario Galaxy. I'm surprised by it since it seems to be liked by so many people on here, but I don't think you're a moron for it, or that you hate fun. What people derive from gameplay experiences varies, and I'm sick of being told that I'm doing it wrong for liking Nintendo or Minecraft or any other random game or company that I appreciate for this or that.
I don't care about sales first and games second. I don't care if there's another Modern Warfare or COD game, nor do I lie awake at night and wonder if there'll be another Gran Turismo or Metal Gear Solid. Angry Birds doesn't strike my fancy either.
So yeah, I think this myth about 'sales first, games second' when it comes to Sales Agers is just that... a myth. Just as I think Wii users unfairly judged HD fans as graphics morons who didn't care about gameplay. That was massively unfair, as many HD games have great gameplay.
Corky said:
Of course. And you know? I don't have an issue with you if you hate Mario Galaxy. I'm surprised by it since it seems to be liked by so many people on here, but I don't think you're a moron for it, or that you hate fun. What people derive from gameplay experiences varies, and I'm sick of being told that I'm doing it wrong for liking Nintendo or Minecraft or any other random game or company that I appreciate for this or that.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Pretty sure that's made up, or maybe they were talking about 3rd party support. Sorry, chief.AzureJericho said:
Vinci said:
Stop being so reasonable!
Edit: Awww... Well, it's not like I don't expect new things from Nintendo, but an acknowledgement and thoughts being exchanged on the matter would have been a pretty awesome step forward. We already had a pseudo confirmation that Nintendo is over-relying on their stable of franchises in that one Iwata interview where he revealed the list of things he thought weren't going optimally at Nintendo a while back, so it's only a matter of time until they get daring again.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Doesn't this entire idea greatly conflict with the DS, where Nintendo was still king of the hill but there were plenty of other options?Ebenezer said:
ShockingAlberto said:
The thing about tat post that goes way against the grain is the idea that people will just up and lose interest in a Nintendo game because there are more options. That is so wrong it can't even be challenged. People want what they want, whose to say that they won't buy both this great pool of games and then some Nintendo developed/published titles on top of that? The quality doesn't go down because there's a greater quantity to pick from.
MisterHero
Super Member
People cite Sales-Age because it MIGHT* mean, in the case of Mario Kart, that A TON of people actually like the game.
I think it's kind of egregious to look at even a small fraction of MKWii's sales (which would still be quite a number) and reason them as being misguided purchases. Can even a couple million people really regret buying the game?
Maybe the contradiction comes from Nintendo being known for making critically highly-rated games. But the contradiction is debunked when people realize that aside from being critically-sound games, Nintendo makes really fun games.
*what people think of MKWii is up to them of course, I just can't believe so many people would keep buying a game just to end up not enjoying it
I think it's kind of egregious to look at even a small fraction of MKWii's sales (which would still be quite a number) and reason them as being misguided purchases. Can even a couple million people really regret buying the game?
Maybe the contradiction comes from Nintendo being known for making critically highly-rated games. But the contradiction is debunked when people realize that aside from being critically-sound games, Nintendo makes really fun games.
*what people think of MKWii is up to them of course, I just can't believe so many people would keep buying a game just to end up not enjoying it
MisterHero said:
I think some people's issues, not the general public's mind you, is that Nintendo is very stale with some of their franchises. I don't know MKWii very well, but how much different is it from the other's in its franchise? What did it do to broaden the franchise? Was it simply just a case of changing the controls and including the wheel?
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Did you play the game? While the direction the series has taken was not really to my liking, it certainly wasn't stale. It still has a lot of series standby stuff but it added a ton of stuff, too. Track design was wackier and items were more powerful. They added bikes, tricks, and other stuff.TheBranca18 said:
Again, not my favorite game but it's absolutely awesome for when people are over.
TheBranca18 said:
Honestly? Yeah. That, and it's not intimidating. It doesn't use a bunch of buttons or have that competitive gamer vibe to it in commercials (though that's there in online matches sometimes, of course). The fact that it looks fun just helps.
EDIT: As for stale... I personally cannot imagine anything more stale than the core gamer market - at least as it's displayed in stores. Yes, you factor in DD and things open up nicely, but the mainstream consumer never sees that stuff. All they see is guns, race cars, and violence more often than not. It's just ridiculously homogenized in look and content to a large degree. That said, so is the Wii's store display, but that's due pretty heavily to what occurred this generation on both sides of the casual/core divide.
MisterHero
Super Member
Interface is a very big deal. Arcade games used to be proof of this.TheBranca18 said:
It sold more than the earlier DS release, which means even if was similar to the DS game, people who played the Wii version might not have played the DS game.
Both were different from Double Dash but some people complained it was too different.
Internet, even as questionable as Nintendo's, added usage to the games.
JimmyRustler
Member
Mario? No, it can remain as what it is. Zelda and Metroid? Hell yes, please evolve.
Chet Rippo
Member
Added Funky Kong.TheBranca18 said:
AbsoluteZero
Banned
Gravijah said:
I tend to view the Mario Kart series as each title improving upon the previous one.
SMK<MK64<MKSC<MKDD<MKDS<MKW
How some people consider the original game the best is baffling.
Jaded Alyx
Member
I can't even play SMK anymore.AbsoluteZero said:
I somehow suck at it now..
Chet Rippo
Member
The computers are cheaters. They can get items you can't.Gravijah said:It's pretty damn hard. I suck at it now too.
Vinci said:
I just couldn't remember. I just recall when Miyamotos Zelda demo didn't work perhaps he was less eager to show any more this year.
In response to the topic, I don't know about having to change completely, but using some new tech and game mechanics would be nice. No, it's doesn't have to have fucking guns or blood or sex.
or better yet, some new IPs would be nice.
Jaded Alyx
Member
Yeh well we get items they can't.Chet Rippo said:
No, I just can't seem to friggin' steer properly anymore. WTF.
AbsoluteZero
Banned
Jaded Alyx said:
Yeah, it seems that the back-end of the karts swing out way more than what I remember.
I have the same problem with Super Circuit, so maybe its a mode 7 thing.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
I couldn't even beat the fucking practice tutorial stage, Hardest game on the cube.Lard said:
Gravijah said:
OK, I guess I should be honest. MKWii is fun and has some great things going for it. I'm just bitter because I miss the long raceways and collision physics of MK64. It felt rewarding going through those long races and items actually had a potent hit behind them without feeling cheap or annoying like the winged blue shell & lightning.
There's also the idea that item payouts felt so much more even compared to "don't even think about getting a good defensive item if you're first or any good offense if you're 2nd or 3rd." Then there's the whole Bikes/Karts divisions which while not bad at a base level, when playing with experienced MKWii players, you're SOL if you aren't godlike with a bike. :lol
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
CoffeeJanitor said:
I think i never played GX to win something, because it would've been impossible, but only to stare in awe at the tracks and listen to the magnificent soundtrack
and what about story mode? lulz. I think I reached the level with the black bull dude and that was it