I just find it bizarre that they acknowledge people quit due to the accessibility of content in Cataclysm but believe that the barrier to entry is a reason players no longer play? What barrier to entry? It's a joke to go from a newly leveled 85 character to something capable of doing normal 10-man Firelands raids.CarbonatedFalcon said:
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World of Warcraft |OT3|
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CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Mairu said:
I get what you're saying. The quote is kind of odd. Maybe now it's fine, but taking a holistic look they've had different problems at different times that turned users away. To get people back you have to do something really compelling. The people who faced a barrier to entry may have quit earlier on than those who didn't and not returned, even if the barrier is gone now, while those appreciated more difficult content quit at a different time due to the accessibility and losing the feeling of being an elite.
It's difficult because you have to balance for different tastes and frankly, Blizzard has been too slow to respond to anything that isn't relatively trivial. This is more of a major production/design philosophy issue. If I had to pin it down to two things, specifically about raids, the consolidation of 10 and 25 to one lockout combined with the methodology for implementing heroic modes after Ulduar (with a binary toggle) are the major causes of why raiding has felt off and not as enjoyable in Cataclysm. That, along with the things I mentioned in my other post, and a lack any other worthwhile endgame content (Rated BGs are still not what they should have been), especially if Arena doesn't do it for you, and you're left with few (if any) reasons to remain playing.
At least the game isn't fundamentally flawed and unfixable. Things could get a lot better with the right content updates. The content just needs to flow, and quicker.
wonderdung said:
It's not a long fight, it's you fighting him multiple times. That's why they said if you added all of the phases together, because it's not one constant push. I'm surprised they haven't done this sooner with a big name boss tbh, but it sounds awesome. All in all, 4.3 sounds really really good. I was pessimistic after 4.1 and 4.2 but I'm really liking what they're saying so far. Even the attempt to make gear not look same old and shitty is much welcomed.
Subliminal
Member
So will the deathwing raid just be multiple deathwing encounters? or will there be trash bosses?
ShadyMilkman
Banned
Hell, I know I quit because I started to wonder what the point of it all was anymore. Getting a raid drop felt exactly as satisfying as getting a random 346/353 drop. In no longer making anything feel exclusive or "elite", it took away my drive to raid. Additionally, when a decent amount of comparable items can be obtained without doing any raids, it only compounded the issue for me.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It sounds like they're confused. Making the game harder coincided with a lot of people quitting (Cataclysm), while making the game more accessible was when subs were on the rise (WLK).Mairu said:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It would be pretty funny if the raid was just Deathwing 6 times.ciaossu said:
ToyMachine228
Member
Mairu said:
My thought for why people have quit? Lack of engaging content this expansion. Sure, questing really is better than ever. They've come a long way since vanilla. But as far as end-game, they've fallen off this expansion. I think they've streamlined a lot of things very well. For example, making 10 and 25 mans both rewarding and viable, etc. But the lack of new, and well done end-game content whether it be 5-mans, or raids this expansion has been pathetic.
Also, as far as the accessibility part, I kind of get what they're saying. The gaming world is changing. A lot games are taking the free to play route and with that, they try to make their games easy to pick up and play and enjoy. WoW is not easy to pick up and play for a first time player. And by the time you're 85, you have so many abilities it's almost overwhelming. For someone who's never played an MMO before, playing WoW and getting good at doing it isn't something that can do quickly, and without a lot of time researching and learning. It's not easy to just pick up, play and enjoy.
Uh... you're in a race to 85 and become raid/pvp ready to "play the game" mindset...ToyMachine228 said:
A new person that downloads the game for free can have fun and play the game at level 1 with 2 spells and zones they've never seen.
The 85 brick wall is a lot of game play away depending upon how many classes they try.
I think a big question is how fun is 1-85 for a new player at whatever pace. 1-60 Vanilla was my favorite gameplay experience. 1-85 for the Xth time over 5 years is.... you know.
As far as the 85 brick wall, it looks like they want to take measures.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
DeathNote said:
Pretty sure that's it. The flying one off Rag is a percentage all the time with a guaranteed drop on heroic though. The Reskinned Anzu just seems to be a random drop, any difficulty/raid size off Alysrazor (though the wowhead stats have it at a 4% drop rate, which is pretty high - actual drop rate may be lower.)
Mortrialus
Banned
Having quit the game august 09, it is rewarding to see just how atrocious the game has gotten and not had to suffer through any of it.
Mortrialus said:
So in other words, you actually have no fucking clue, and you quit when the game was at its all time low (so when you played was actually far worse than what we play now). ok.
It's pretty pathetic to both sit here reading about a game you are happy to have quit, and to derive joy from your perceived suffering of others, regardless of how incorrect that perception may be.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Correct. Ragnaros drops the Millagazor fire hawk 1% on normal and 100% on heroic.DeathNote said:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It's just a special reward so that you still have a chance to get it on normal.Bisnic said:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Yeah, except that it has a 1% drop rate and it would take 2 years to even get 100 kills registered.TheYanger said:
The point that you're super awesome and great has been taken. Hundreds of times already.
Angry Grimace said:
every other mount like that was moved to a 1% drop later. There's no point in having it drop ALL the time if it looks the same as the shit random people have as well.
Why advocate that rewards for doing content be trivialized by putting the same rewards on other content? That's all that you're saying. Like heroic gear should drop in 5 mans and if you disagree then LOL ELITIST.
ShadyMilkman
Banned
Angry Grimace said:
"I deserve everything just because!"
lul.ShadyMilkman said:
A mount with meaning is a heroic only mount with a low drop chance. Only the top people killing it weekly will get it during current content.
100% mounts and achievement mounts can be sold.
Bitching about people being able to get the 100% mount at a low drop chance in normal mode is ridiculous.
Supporting those people is stupid, like you're doing now.
What you need to do is bitch to blizzard about it being 100% before bitching about it dropping in normal modes.
But you wont do that will you? Because you deserve the 100% drop mount? You don't need to be bothered with low drop rates on mounts because your elite?
ShadyMilkman
Banned
DeathNote said:
Why would I care that its 100% in Heroic? I don't care that it drops at a 1% rate in normal either; its the attitude that the 1% isn't enough. Be thankful there is a chance for it at all.
And yeah, those "elitists" do deserve it more because they are elite.
DeathNote said:
What. nobody cares that they occasionally get sold. it's pretty rare unless the mount is at 100% for well over a year, like mim's head/invincible. Typically it doesn't get to that point until members have it, by then it starts losing its status anyway, but early on? there shouldn't be MORE random people with it than people that actually earned it. Random chance on a hard boss is retarded, ALA al'ar.
I'm sorry, but I have this crazy notion that you should be rewarded for effort, and that the idea of that isn't elitist at all. I consider it more elitist to insist that you should be rewarded for absolutely nothing.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm not making an argument on the merits of elitist vs. non-elitist. It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with the fact it's tiring to hear all the sly hints about how awesome you and your guild are every other post. I'm simply letting you know we got your point already. You rule.TheYanger said:
It's too late to go back and claim you aren't elitist; I mean, you once argued that subs would rise if the game was harder. It's inherently an elitist point to care at all about a mount. I don't see how you can argue that point without crossing that territory - it's the functional equivalent of Donald Trump arguing the lottery should be illegal. It's just a mount. Let people have their fun. It doesn't ruin yours unless you're a psychopath.
Working months to down 7/7 is a lot of effort. They should be able to get rewarded with a 1% mount at least.TheYanger said:
No what you need is a reward for skill. You get that with gear and a 100% mount.
You should argue for a different texture in the heroic 100%, not that the people who spend months of their lives in normal mode shouldn't get shit like a prick.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You never see anyone from Paragon/Ensidia/etc. arguing this point because people who are legitimately at the top of their game don't actually need that kind of kudos because they don't care.DeathNote said:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm not saying that the mount shouldn't be given out to people who do heroic, I'm saying complaining about the crushing unlikelihood that someone else could theoretically have it is a completely ludicrous level of pointless whining.DeathNote said:
And every time you even bring up this criticism, all you get back is a really stupid point about heroic raid gear dropping in 5 mans, which of course I got back a single post later, even though 5-mans and a 1% drop in a once a week top of the line raid aren't even remotely comparable.
All I was saying is hypothetical variables you'd need for a mount that actually gives e-peen. And that I bet they wouldn't want those hypothetical variables (no normal version, no 100%) because they feel they are entitled to a 100% mount.Angry Grimace said:
Anyways, his argument parallels to the legendary staff. If normal moders shouldn't have a chance at the mount, they shouldn't be able to get the legendary either, which having during current content is supposed to mean more than anything in the game.
I think you to go back and read the argument. TheYanger was saying it's disappointing that it drops in normal. Angry Grimace was not saying that 1% isn't enough in that post. I'm sure there are people who do think it's not enough.ShadyMilkman said:
ciaossu said:We finally downed Rag tonight on 10! Crown of Flame dropped, but the resto shammy in the group got it since he's had much better attendance than I. No 25 this past weekend, canceled for holiday.
Kill shot
Hopefully we can get it in 25 this week.
Nice job! We're still working on getting Majordomo, well, we killed him once but it was with two non-guildies.
Finally getting drops on my Paladin in ZG/ZA, who I actually race changed to a Tauren. Couldn't stand my BE anymore, feels good being a rare race/class combo.
I bought two heirloom items for a new goblin shadow priest, helm and cloak, and am saving up my justice points for the heirloom shoulders and robe before I actually start playing the priest. I haven't played a ranged class in years.
I bought two heirloom items for a new goblin shadow priest, helm and cloak, and am saving up my justice points for the heirloom shoulders and robe before I actually start playing the priest. I haven't played a ranged class in years.
Congrats on the kill! We're still struggling with him, mainly because we had so much bad luck. Last week, one of our main healer had massive connection issues, and this week, one of our tanks was sick, he insisted he could play but litteraly fell asleep on his keyboard mid raid. Since we don't like filling ou raid spots with non guildies, we called it a night.ciaossu said:We finally downed Rag tonight on 10! Crown of Flame dropped, but the resto shammy in the group got it since he's had much better attendance than I. No 25 this past weekend, canceled for holiday.
Kill shot
Hopefully we can get it in 25 this week.
Next week should be the one thought!