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Would it be possible to create a program that could run Windows and Linux...

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V

Vieo

Member
...at the same time on the same computer?

I'm not talking about dual-booting where you choose which OS you want while booting your PC. I'm talking about a super-program that integrates the two OSes and let's you change between them on the fly. For example, you could be working with a text document on WindowsXP, highlight all the text in the document, use copy, then switch over to Linux by right clicking on WindowsXP's desktop and choosing something like "Go to Linux", open up a text file in Linux and paste the text you copied while using WindowsXP instantly into the file. Or for another example, you could be listening to an MP3 in Windows, switch over to Linux, start downloading a file, switch back over to Windows and the MP3 picks up where you left off.

Basically a program that let's you run both OSes at the same time, allows you to switch back and forth between them without rebooting, and when one is not in use(or visible to you), it's still running in the background. And it supports some memory/file sharing between the two(like the text thing I described.)

Would that be possible? :D
 
C

cubicle47b

Member
Uh, no. The OS is the layer between applications and the hardware. Any program you'd write would be on top of one of the operating systems. You could try to emulate the functionality of one of the operating systems but truly using both operating systems at one time isn't going to happen.
 
8

8bit

Knows the Score
You can run various 8/16bit computer emulators at the same time, so there's no real reason why not theoretically.
Not at this point in time though, you'd need a further level of abstraction emulating the hardware calls, et al.
 
V

Vieo

Member
Bah. Well there goes that idea.

So the only way to do something like that would be running a Windows and Linux emulator (if they existed) on top of an OS?
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
Absolutely impossible.

That's why there are programs that do just that available, both open source and commercial.
 
N

Nerevar

they call me "Man Gravy".
:lol

That's why there are programs that do just that available, both open source and commercial.
Click to expand...

Well, that's stretching the meaning of the quote quite a bit. I mean, are you talking about bootloaders? Emulators? That doesn't really fit his description.
 
M

Marty Chinn

Member
Couldn't you just in theory write an OS to handle multiple OS's running at the same time? It's probably possible but not as easy as anyone would want to tackle =)
 
G

gblues

Banned
Vieo said:
...at the same time on the same computer?

I'm not talking about dual-booting where you choose which OS you want while booting your PC. I'm talking about a super-program that integrates the two OSes and let's you change between them on the fly. For example, you could be working with a text document on WindowsXP, highlight all the text in the document, use copy, then switch over to Linux by right clicking on WindowsXP's desktop and choosing something like "Go to Linux", open up a text file in Linux and paste the text you copied while using WindowsXP instantly into the file. Or for another example, you could be listening to an MP3 in Windows, switch over to Linux, start downloading a file, switch back over to Windows and the MP3 picks up where you left off.

Basically a program that let's you run both OSes at the same time, allows you to switch back and forth between them without rebooting, and when one is not in use(or visible to you), it's still running in the background. And it supports some memory/file sharing between the two(like the text thing I described.)

Would that be possible? :D
Click to expand...

One of the OSes would need to be run in a PC emulator, such as bochs.
 
H

HyperionX

Member
With Virtualization it is possible, but it needs hardware support. Intel will make it available later this year or next.

Intel® Virtualization Technology is part of a collection of premier Intel designed and manufactured silicon technologies that deliver new and improved computing benefits for home and business users, and IT managers. Others in the market today include Intel® Hyper-Threading Technology and Intel® Extended Memory 64 Technology, with plans for Intel® Active Management technology and LaGrande technology that focus on management and greater security underway.

Virtualization enhanced by Intel Virtualization Technology will allow a platform to run multiple operating systems and applications in independent partitions. With virtualization, one computer system can function as multiple “virtual” systems. With enhancements to Intel’s various platforms, Intel Virtualization Technology can improve the robustness and performance of today’s software-only solutions.

Within the digital office and enterprise, businesses for example will be able to isolate a portion of a managed PC to perform system upgrades and maintenance without interrupting the end-user. IT managers could also create one desktop PC build that can function independently as both a business and personal system, keeping software loads and virus attacks separate, or one that runs different operating systems and software for different or legacy tasks. Multiple servers can be combined into one system, running different applications and operating systems, providing advantages for IT tasks such as server consolidation, legacy migration and security.

Home users could create virtual “partitions” isolating multiple user environments such as dedicating resources to a PC game, productivity, and personal video recorder-type environments, as well as improve defenses against viruses or spy ware.

Intel Virtualization Technology is a set of hardware enhancements to Intel server and client platforms that can improve virtualization solutions.
Intel Virtualization Technology will provide a foundation for widely-deployed virtualization solutions
- Intel Virtualization Technology-based Virtualization under development by leading providers of virtualization infrastructure
- Intel Virtualization Technology forms the foundation of a roadmap of Intel technologies focused on improved Virtualization and safer computing
Provides headroom for more robust hardware assisted virtualization solutions:
- When combined with the right software Intel Virtualization Technology can improve the reliability and supportability of virtualization solutions, enabling improved consolidation and fail-over for servers
- For client platforms, Intel Virtualization Technology helps optimized software provide a foundation for highly available and more secure client virtualization partitions
Intel platforms supporting Intel Virtualization Technology will ship in 2005 for desktop and Intel® Itanium® Processor based servers
- 2006 for mobile platforms and Intel® Xeon™ processor based servers and workstations
Click to expand...

http://www.intel.com/technology/computing/vptech/
 
C

cubicle47b

Member
Well, that's stretching the meaning of the quote quite a bit. I mean, are you talking about bootloaders? Emulators? That doesn't really fit his description.
Click to expand...

I agree with the not really fitting his description part. Then again, he'd probably be just as happy with an emulator.
 
A

Anthropic

Member
Well this:
Basically a program that let's you run both OSes at the same time, allows you to switch back and forth between them without rebooting, and when one is not in use(or visible to you), it's still running in the background. And it supports some memory/file sharing between the two(like the text thing I described.)
Click to expand...

...Sounds totally like an emulator.

Also, sharing files could be accomplished via virtual networking.
 
T

tedtropy

$50/hour, but no kissing on the lips and colors must be pre-separated
demon said:
You'd need to download a special videocard for that.
Click to expand...

:lol

And make sure the gigahertz has enough ram. Common n00b mistake LOLPOOPONYOU.
 
C

cubicle47b

Member
I was imagining what Marty said, an OS that can switch between the two operating systems, from that description (it was the program that ran both OS's bit). Then again, my idea on how emulators worked was quite a bit off.
 
T

Tenacious-V

Thinks his PR is better than yours.
Both AMD and Intel will be releasing chips later this year that support vitrualization, which is basically what you're looking for.
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
6.8 said:
You can also do the opposite. But I'm a vehement hater of VMWare. My summer job last year was on linux workstations, but somehow everyone used VMWare to develop on windows? :lol

The performance was attrocious on those workstations. But it gets the job done, I guess! :D
Click to expand...

I had generally good results running a trial version of VMWare on Linux to use a limited number of Windows apps on a Linux desktop machine. There's also QEMU with the accelerator which gives 'near-native' performance of the virtualised OS - 50-100% of native speed.
 
CaptainABAB

CaptainABAB

Member
Yes, it is possible using Vmware or Microsoft's Virtual PC. I use these programs to run Windows 98 within my Windows 2003 OS (for testing purposes)

It is not an "emulator" per se, as both Windows and Linux use the same x86 instruction code and their instructions are executed directly on the CPU. With "virtualization", it uses a file on your local OS as the virtual disk in the hosted OS, etc.

I've had no performance issues, you just need extra RAM. Also, I can copy & paste between the OS environments just like he said.

Yes, hardware from Intel/AMD/Sun is coming out to make it possible to run multiple OS at the same time SEPARATELY (not one within another, as vmware does)

And no, you don't need any extra or special video cards.
 
CaptainABAB

CaptainABAB

Member
Note: using Intel's approach will be better in some ways, since they are independent. For example, in vmware/virtual PC, if my main OS crashes, it takes down all Virtual Machines running.

On the other hand, I can copy & paste and other things which the hardware solution won't provide. I can also make a copy of my virtual machine file - thus having multiple versions of the entire state of the OS. For example, a clean, fresh install of Linux saved as one file and one with programs installed on it. The Intel solution will just have separated portions of the hard drive dedicated to each.


To clarify:

Virtual PC for Mac is a pure x86 emulator.

Virtual PC for Windows is a standard virtualizer like vmware.

None of this has anything to do with virtual machines in the java sense.
 
6

6.8

Member
CaptainABAB said:
I've had no performance issues, you just need extra RAM. Also, I can copy & paste between the OS environments just like he said.
Click to expand...

That's what I figured. It's probably fine when you have enough RAM, but I think the workstations I was on had 256 megs, which isn't so hot.
 
CaptainABAB

CaptainABAB

Member
6.8 said:
That's what I figured. It's probably fine when you have enough RAM, but I think the workstations I was on had 256 megs, which isn't so hot.
Click to expand...

Yeah I have 1GB of ram, so I have some room to spare. The hosted OS feels as responsive as the native one.
 
D

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
Isn't there some Linux version that allows you to boot directly into Linux off the CD-ROM... no dual boot/partitioning mess needed?
 
G

Gattsu25

Banned
djtiesto said:
Isn't there some Linux version that allows you to boot directly into Linux off the CD-ROM... no dual boot/partitioning mess needed?
Click to expand...

Knoppix and Whoppix both do this

hell..you can boot linux off a floppy (not talking about a bootloader here)
 
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