WrassleGAF September Edition: Look At The Adjective; "Wrassle"

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Spirit of Jazz said:
Amazing straw-man argument, I for one didn't have an issue with Bryan losing to Del Rio. However Punk losing to Orton clean constantly for 3 months despite having Nexus behind him, or Christian getting beat down in ever match they had together with his only wins over the 7 year period being shady makes my soap opera pretty dull. If Orton was actually able to add something to a feud on the mic, or had the talent to carry/raise the game of any other wrestler maybe him being pushed like a God would be less tedious.
i cannot hardly recall any clean Punk wins before the now. NXT, SES, the Jeff Hardy, Edge, Jericho Smackdown era, MitB... does Punk have any clean wins at all?
 
Mr. Sam said:
This is a fake sport; a soap opera. The stats aren't what's important - the stories are.

The more the bad guy prevails, the greater the impact of the good guy's success when he overcomes his adversity. Of course the stats don't matter, but you can't say it doesn't take something out of it when you know that regardless of the participants in the feud, Orton and Cena are probably going to come out on top not just at the end of the feud, but throughout the course of it. It's perfectly acceptable for the bad guy to dominate the feud right up until the big blow-off PPV match, but just not when Cena & Orton are concerned it seems.
 
Heavy said:
There's an aura around Henry that's hard for me to explain. It reminds me of the AAA heels from the 80s. Zeke is generic bodybuilder guy #47 with no personality whatsoever. Henry is different... the combination of his overall look, his mic skills, his face, he's almost like a cartoon character villain come to life - that's the best way I can describe it. Very few dudes like him in the biz. I don't think there's a better heel right now.

That's what really separates him from the other heels for me. That, and as mentioned, he's finally getting a good lengthy run without injury.
 
Liquidsnake said:
I agree, its like he wants to be funny and a little more edgy like the Rock, but he can't pull it off. He just seems confused on where to go from here. I think the boos bother him, and I think his jorts bother him, but he has no clue on what to do.

I'd almost like him to shoot like Punk did, talk about how he hates the crowd booing him all the time and stuff. Maybe address the whole "Same old shit" thing.

It would be glorious.
 
Spirit of Jazz said:
Amazing straw-man argument, I for one didn't have an issue with Bryan losing to Del Rio.

You call my argument a straw man argument because, I assume, I equate Bryan/Del Rio to Orton's feuds, or what?

1) Punk had Nexus behind him? If I remember correctly, they were injured for WrestleMania and then banned from ringside at Extreme Rules.

2) Punk lost clean to Orton "constantly"? Well, in three matches, yes. This is if you ignore my entire argument about stories being more important than stats, which you seem happy to.

3) Orton had six great matches with Christian. I don't know how much more he could have raised his game.
 
evil ways said:
My God! This is exactly what this dipshit wants, attention, and they're giving it to him.

If people don't say his name he will be forced to do something unheard of in the Hardy Boyz household: He may go to rehab to get attention.
 
Jerry Lawler was recently told to stop making weight-related jokes towards Vickie Guerrero. Guerrero has lost over 60 pounds and does bikini photoshoots now, so the jokes don't make much sense anymore.
.
 
djsandman said:
Think about this statement: Mark Henry is the top heel in the WWE today.

Just let that sink in for a moment.

:(

he used to job to other guys on shotgun saturday night and now this...

:(
 
djsandman said:
Think about this statement: Mark Henry is the top heel in the WWE today.

Just let that sink in for a moment.
audioguy.gif
 
djsandman said:
Think about this statement: Mark Henry is the top heel in the WWE today.

Just let that sink in for a moment.


Given how long he has been with the company and all, it seems perfectly reasonable.
 
AnEternalEnigma said:
Henry's now been there for 15 years. Made his debut in 1996. Shit blows my mind.

There were points in those 15 years where I said "Why is Mark Henry on my tv?" and now I say: "Oh shit, Mark Henry is on, someone didn't keep their bills paid."
 
Mr. Sam said:
You call my argument a straw man argument because, I assume, I equate Bryan/Del Rio to Orton's feuds, or what?

Because you suggest people who have an issue that Bryan lost to Del Rio (if there were any?) are also the only ones who have an issue with Orton constantly winning all the time.

1) Punk had Nexus behind him? If I remember correctly, they were injured for WrestleMania and then banned from ringside at Extreme Rules.

And why were they injured? Because Orton single handedly took out the faction.

2) Punk lost clean to Orton "constantly"? Well, in three matches, yes. This is if you ignore my entire argument about stories being more important than stats, which you seem happy to.

He lost every PPV match in the series. The W/L record matters because it makes the entire feud boring/predictable if there's no back and fourth.

3) Orton had six great matches with Christian. I don't know how much more he could have raised his game.

They weren't great, I found the Summer Slam match terrible given it ended in a 10 minute squash Christian pulled Randy to some solid matches. I've never once denied that Randy can do okay when he's in the ring with somebody who can make him look good. However unless you can point me to the feud where Randy had great matches with a bad wrestler I don't see how you're responding to my point?
 
Mr. Sam said:
You call my argument a straw man argument because, I assume, I equate Bryan/Del Rio to Orton's feuds, or what?

1) Punk had Nexus behind him? If I remember correctly, they were injured for WrestleMania and then banned from ringside at Extreme Rules.

2) Punk lost clean to Orton "constantly"? Well, in three matches, yes. This is if you ignore my entire argument about stories being more important than stats, which you seem happy to.
This argument would fly if the story wasn't also shitty. They made Punk look weak going into each match and then also had him lose. This might have actually worked if they had treated Punk as the face but instead we had Orton beating Punk and New Nexus in handicap matches and attacks prior to even having singles contests.
If Punk wasn't even able to get the upper hand when the deck was stacked in his favour, why would any of the audience expect him to be a credible threat when it wasn't.

Instead the whole thing came off as if they were trying to stroke Orton's ego or punish Punk for no reason, and if Punk were a lesser worker then it would have killed his heat.
 
Spirit of Jazz said:
Because you suggest people who have an issue that Bryan lost to Del Rio (if there were any?) are also the only ones who have an issue with Orton constantly winning all the time.
Fair enough. And yes, there were a few people that had an issue with Bryan losing to Del Rio.

And why were they injured? Because Orton single handedly took out the faction.
Yeah, that's what happened. I mean, it's not like he ran into the entire group and took them out all at once. He isolated them, punted them, then ran - to borrow a phrase - like a scolded dog when the others showed up. Frankly, there was a lot of room to make him look more dominant.

He lost every PPV match in the series. The W/L record matters because it makes the entire feud boring/predictable if there's no back and fourth.
There were two pay-per-view matches; three matches overall. Barely a series.

They weren't great, I found the Summer Slam match terrible given it ended in a 10 minute squash Christian pulled Randy to some solid matches.
Ten minutes is hyperbole. It was probably around three minutes at best, and at the end of a twenty minute match during which Christian got plenty of offence in. To arbitrarily isolate the final few minutes and call it a squash just seems odd. In the context of the match, it was Orton pulling out all the stops to keep Christian down. The call-back to their first match together was very well down.

As for Christian pulling Orton to the matches? Come on, that didn't happen - not unless Christian was controlling Orton's body via psychic link.

I've never once denied that Randy can do okay when he's in the ring with somebody who can make him look good. However unless you can point me to the feud where Randy had great matches with a bad wrestler I don't see how you're responding to my point?
The only great match I can think of any wrestler having with a much worse one is Bret Hart versus The British Bulldog at SummerSlam 1992. Unquestionably the highlight of Bulldog's career, just another great match on Hart's extensive list. This is a really odd criteria to have.
 
Entropia said:
Faarooq vs. JBL!?

Was Faarooq wrestling when JBL had his title run?

No, he was "released" kayfabe, but in reality Ron Simmons announced his retirement when Bradshaw did his JBL gimmick.

Simmons signed a Legends contract or road agent or whatever eventually I think.
 
supposedly from what the stream said they wanted Henry to quit before doing that angle and well he trolled wwe and went with it.
 
Mr. Sam said:
The only great match I can think of any wrestler having with a much worse one is Bret Hart versus The British Bulldog at SummerSlam 1992. Unquestionably the highlight of Bulldog's career, just another great match on Hart's extensive list. This is a really odd criteria to have.
But the thing is Orton gets put up against better wrestlers constantly. When you have two great wrestlers they should elevate eachother (Punk/Cena, Angle/Joe, Michaels/Jericho), Orton however doesn't know how to make his opponents look good so you can never really get a classic match out of him and all of his 'good' matches need to be with a significantly better wrestler.

For example, I'll bet if you named the best 5 Randy Orton matchesyou could probably make a very passable list, however not one of them would make it onto a top five list of any of his respective opponents. This same thing wouldn't happen with any other main eventer (except for maybe JBL)
 
Entropia said:
I also realized, that right now there are only like 4 active wrestlers from the 90's? Christian, Big Show, Kane and Mark Henry.

(HHH and Undertaker barely/don't count)
I think Goldust and Regal still wrestle.
 
It's amusing to see people keep saying W/L doesn't matter as Cena and Orton keep on bringing home the W's and are always "protected", even in loses. You'd think we'd see other people come out on top in the matches if that was really the case.
 
Net_Wrecker said:
It's amusing to see people keep saying W/L doesn't matter as Cena and Orton keep on bringing home the W's and are always "protected", even in loses. You'd think we'd see other people come out on top in the matches if that was really the case.
It's also absurd to downplay their importance. Even in a fake sport the objective of your characters is to succeed in that sport. Motivations should always be centralized around winning matches.

If you always have the hero win and villain look like an incompetent buffoon the product tends to stray from reality. This is even worse when neither wrestler (but especially the heel) treats their wins or losses with any sort of gravity.
 
Jackson50 said:
I think Goldust and Regal still wrestle.
They can wrestle, just WWE rather use promos and announcers showcasing how long WWE has been on-air than let them get over a young talent.
 
I have long been indifferent to Henry, in fact I used to hate him for how slow and immobile he is, but now, I think he's actually deserving of a WHC run.

Like Kane, this would be a reward type run, he's been with the company since the mid nineties, he's always stuck with them and never complained despite the really bad stories he got stuck with and always being in the mid card, and always jobbed when needed. Most of all he seems like a good guy.

Now Kane is better on the mic (not that Henry is bad, he's solid) and overall a better worker (both are past their prime obviously), but I'd like to see Henry win and have a few months of fun with the title. Not feuding with Orton, either, meet a few different challengers at PPV's until maybe December or January, then drop it to Sheamus or someone like that.

This will be his only chance at a World Title run, he can't have more than a few years left in his career, and it's a good way to reward a loyal company man.

I like Orton just fine, but I don't want an out of nowhere RKO ending here.
 
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