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Writing-GAF: Writing, Publishing, Selling |OT|

Definitely! This year is all about FINISHING. I have enough starts, but few finishes. I'm actually looking forward to it!

I'll hold you to that! Your name had better be on the front page list by Dec 31, 2015.


I've done the cover and tried doing some character art, but I'm a distinctly average illustrator at my absolute best and it didn't go well. This is my cover:

And my synopsis for good measure (it's a sequel, btw):

H.Protagonist, how much of your book is going to be in comic form? It looks really fantastic, maybe it's worth trying get the whole thing out as a graphic novel. Not sure what the market is like, but if it gets your work out to a new audience, surely all the better.

Wow. That's a great cover! How cool that it's a sequel as well. The synopsis also grabs me. I've very interested in the Irish unrest (family history and all that), and it seems like you have a bit of everything in there. Very nice. I may have to check out the first book. ^_^

You could hire an artist to do some character art for the book. Visual aids really help for marketing and it'd be cool as a reward to yourself if you finished your editing on schedule. A carrot for a goal met?

For my book, the comic is only a bonus; a 10-page mini-story with the book characters. It's from a new artist entirely, but the original artist they hired for the book itself still has all her work included in the novel section plus the bonus images (though I'm not sure if the sexy girl pin-up from their calendar is included). While I would love to have the whole thing illustrated, it is a hard subject to draw since a lot of the characters' abilities don't manifest physically, and ghosts are well, ghosts(though I think Irene nailed how it should go in one of her illustrations). I think it could be ultra creepy if done right. I'm certainly considering pursuing it.
 

Delio

Member
Comic update!

Everything's done~ :D Got the final shaded version of the comic in and it came out great. Can't wait to see this puppy released, and even more excited that they're adding it into the print version.

Viva la breakfast doom!

ZXOFw0m.jpg
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4jfyhzh.jpg
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5yn1LCr.jpg






Go for it. There are some great maps of that era.

Super late but love this! Congrats!
 

Timu

Member
Comic update!

Everything's done~ :D Got the final shaded version of the comic in and it came out great. Can't wait to see this puppy released, and even more excited that they're adding it into the print version.

Viva la breakfast doom!

ZXOFw0m.jpg
__
4jfyhzh.jpg
___
5yn1LCr.jpg
That looks nice, congrats!!!
 
When writing a two-page synopsis to send to literary agents who demand a two-page synopsis, should said synopsis be single or double spaced? Google is giving me conflicting answers.

It'll be a huge bitch to shove my 400-page novel into one single spaced page.
 
Super late but love this! Congrats!

Aww, thanks, Del! Only 4 more days till go~!


That looks nice, congrats!!!

Cheers, Timu! Hopefully it'll capture some new eyes for the book.


Oh it will be.

:p

I kid, but seriously this year will hopefully be another victory after last year's failure.

This year it's winner's circle for sure. :)

Sometimes it just takes a bit more time. I failed NaNoWriMo back in Nov 2012 and didn't even finish the book until May 2014(?), and even then, the full book didn't release until Oct 2014. Now the print 'might' release in May 2015. It's a long haul, so just keep at it. You'll get there.
 
So I've got a first draft of my two-page summary done. I went with single spaced pages because I just cannot fit this into one page. It's a big book, and as the writer, I feel like every stupid plot detail is important.

Um. Since ya'll don't know dick about the book and are also pretty rad with the advice, I'm wondering if one or two wouldn't mind checking it out? I'm kind of afraid it reads like a kindergartner's book report. "This happens, then this happens, then this happens," etc. I mean, I think that's part of the point, but it's hard to make that not come off as bad writing.

Plus, maybe I can get some feedback on what should be cut and what needs to be fleshed out a bit more to make sense.

I dunno. Post here or PM me if you're interested. I'd be grateful as fuck.
 
Bah, another big life setback is going to prevent me from starting my 4th book by the deadline I set. Don't know when I'll be able to start writing again, which really sucks because I know how hard it is to start back up again the longer you wait :(.

Hope I can at least do everything necessary to get the 3rd book out when the beta-readers finish it.
 

aidan

Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
I've done the cover and tried doing some character art, but I'm a distinctly average illustrator at my absolute best and it didn't go well. This is my cover:

Cover's looking great! Did you do all the work yourself?

I was referring to 'creativity is knowing how to hide your sources' :
http://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/06/01/creative/

Ahh, gotcha. As a young writer I struggled a lot with the idea that successful and "good" writers were creative and "original". Once I began to realize that there are only a handful of story archetypes and the "creative" writers are the ones that cleverly mash their inspirations together, I found writing to be a much freer and enjoyable experience. Originality's much less important than execution, I guess?

For my book, the comic is only a bonus; a 10-page mini-story with the book characters. It's from a new artist entirely, but the original artist they hired for the book itself still has all her work included in the novel section plus the bonus images (though I'm not sure if the sexy girl pin-up from their calendar is included). While I would love to have the whole thing illustrated, it is a hard subject to draw since a lot of the characters' abilities don't manifest physically, and ghosts are well, ghosts(though I think Irene nailed how it should go in one of her illustrations). I think it could be ultra creepy if done right. I'm certainly considering pursuing it.

This is looking really cool. Can't wait to see more of it.

So I've got a first draft of my two-page summary done. I went with single spaced pages because I just cannot fit this into one page. It's a big book, and as the writer, I feel like every stupid plot detail is important.

Um. Since ya'll don't know dick about the book and are also pretty rad with the advice, I'm wondering if one or two wouldn't mind checking it out? I'm kind of afraid it reads like a kindergartner's book report. "This happens, then this happens, then this happens," etc. I mean, I think that's part of the point, but it's hard to make that not come off as bad writing..

My understanding is that most book synopses at that stage (pitching to agent or publisher) look as you're describing. Not really engaging for a reader, but useful for publishing folk.

Bah, another big life setback is going to prevent me from starting my 4th book by the deadline I set. Don't know when I'll be able to start writing again, which really sucks because I know how hard it is to start back up again the longer you wait :(.

Hope I can at least do everything necessary to get the 3rd book out when the beta-readers finish it.

Best of luck getting through whatever's come up. Write whenever you can. The hundred words you just posted could be a hundred words of fiction! :)
 
So I've got a first draft of my two-page summary done. I went with single spaced pages because I just cannot fit this into one page. It's a big book, and as the writer, I feel like every stupid plot detail is important.

Um. Since ya'll don't know dick about the book and are also pretty rad with the advice, I'm wondering if one or two wouldn't mind checking it out? I'm kind of afraid it reads like a kindergartner's book report. "This happens, then this happens, then this happens," etc. I mean, I think that's part of the point, but it's hard to make that not come off as bad writing.

Plus, maybe I can get some feedback on what should be cut and what needs to be fleshed out a bit more to make sense.

I dunno. Post here or PM me if you're interested. I'd be grateful as fuck.

I could have a look for you and give you some impressions/suggestions if you like.


This is looking really cool. Can't wait to see more of it.

Thanks, A. Might post another snippet on release since it'll be online in a few days, but the real excitement will come when they print it. SOON. :D
 
I would appreciate the hell out of that. Thank you.

Chopping paragraphs into little informational parcels is a specialty of mine. *cracks knuckles*

Is it necessary to have this as two pages? I'm confident that one or one and a half at most is easily done. A cursory look at what literary agents want from synopses seems to suggest that more compact is preferable (1-1.5 pages sounds about right).
 
Chopping paragraphs into little informational parcels is a specialty of mine. *cracks knuckles*

Is it necessary to have this as two pages? I'm confident that one or one and a half at most is easily done. A cursory look at what literary agents want from synopses seems to suggest that more compact is preferable (1-1.5 pages sounds about right).
Two is the max amount, at least on most of the agent websites. "include a two-page synopsis"

As you've seen, some of what I have is either overly written or perhaps not necessary at all, but it's hard to determine that sometimes.

I'll see if I can get it shorter yet.
 
Two is the max amount, at least on most of the agent websites. "include a two-page synopsis"

As you've seen, some of what I have is either overly written or perhaps not necessary at all, but it's hard to determine that sometimes.

I'll see if I can get it shorter yet.

I think ~1.75 pgs would be the best to shoot for in your case. I thought one would be possible at first, but you do have a lot of stuff going on in this book. ^_^ They get to Snaetar and I was like, all right, goal in sight, then BOOM shit happens. Haha.
 

xandaca

Member
I'll hold you to that! Your name had better be on the front page list by Dec 31, 2015.




Wow. That's a great cover! How cool that it's a sequel as well. The synopsis also grabs me. I've very interested in the Irish unrest (family history and all that), and it seems like you have a bit of everything in there. Very nice. I may have to check out the first book. ^_^

You could hire an artist to do some character art for the book. Visual aids really help for marketing and it'd be cool as a reward to yourself if you finished your editing on schedule. A carrot for a goal met?

For my book, the comic is only a bonus; a 10-page mini-story with the book characters. It's from a new artist entirely, but the original artist they hired for the book itself still has all her work included in the novel section plus the bonus images (though I'm not sure if the sexy girl pin-up from their calendar is included). While I would love to have the whole thing illustrated, it is a hard subject to draw since a lot of the characters' abilities don't manifest physically, and ghosts are well, ghosts(though I think Irene nailed how it should go in one of her illustrations). I think it could be ultra creepy if done right. I'm certainly considering pursuing it.

Sounds amazing. Hope you put up links when it's finished! As for my first book, I'm happy to send it to you if you'd be willing to share it on your social media (if you enjoy it, of course) or write a review on Amazon or something. I'm doing it to get my name out there for now, and while I'm very much in that 'impoverished writer' phase in real life (sadly a long way from being able to afford hiring an artist - the cover was indeed my own work, messing around with any appropriate free images I could find!), self-publication was always about my own fulfillment rather than making money - which, having put little to no effort into promoting that first book, is lucky! Just send me your email via PM if you're interested. Perfectly happy to do the same for anyone else, again in exchange for a share on social media, an Amazon review, or any other help with promotion.

Both Dead Drop and its sequel are very pulpy thrillers, so don't expect much, if any, serious examination of the Irish unrest in there, I'm afraid... the abiding subtext is more about the manipulative power and human cost of patriotism and nationalism on both sides, the powerful manipulating people into fighting their battles for them, and how 'the system' (so to speak) is an impossible trap no matter who or what you're fighting for, repeating itself across history.

But it's REALLY REALLY about chases, explosions, punch-ups and as much lunacy as I can cram into a single story.

(Oh, and if anyone wants to share follows on Twitter, I'm @xandermarkham; same goes for anyone with a dedicated facebook page, mine is here.)

Two is the max amount, at least on most of the agent websites. "include a two-page synopsis"

As you've seen, some of what I have is either overly written or perhaps not necessary at all, but it's hard to determine that sometimes.

I'll see if I can get it shorter yet.

Obviously I've never been professionally published, so take this advice with as much salt as required, but the handful of writing courses I've been on, some with agents giving the talks, having generally encouraged synopses to be kept to a single page. There's obviously a knack to getting it right, but you certainly only want to include the broadest strokes of the plot. So, for instance - and bear in mind this is off the top of my head, so will be rough - a very, very quick synopsis of Lord Of The Rings could be something like:

Dodgy LotR synopsis said:
When hobbit Frodo Baggins discovers a magical ring belonging to his uncle could bring about the resurrection of the Dark Lord, Sauron, he sets out on an epic journey from his home in the peaceful Shire to destroy it in the fires of Mount Doom, accompanied by a fellowship of travelling companions.

When his dearest friend, Gandalf, is lost battling a fire demon in the abandoned dwarf stronghold of Moria, the fellowship is broken up, with its members scattered to the four corners of Middle Earth to do battle against the encroaching darkness. Frodo and his faithful companion, Sam, find themselves alone burdened with the responsibility of destroying the ring, relying on the help of a treacherous and deformed creature, Gollum, as their guide.

As the resurrected Gandalf and a reunited fellowship lead the defence against the increasingly powerful armies of the Dark Lord, Gollum betrays Frodo and Sam before they can destroy the ring, only for his own hubris to lead him to fall into the fires of Mount Doom along with it. With the ring destroyed and a new age dawning, Sam returns to his peaceful life in the Shire while a shell-shocked Frodo joins Gandalf in a final voyage across the seas.

Inspired by the great epics of Norse and Germanic mythology, The Lord Of The Rings takes the world of The Hobbit and expands it into a fantasy trilogy whose storytelling sets a new landmark for the genre in scope and grandeur.

As I said, that's very rough and generic in parts, but I don't think you need a great deal more detail than that for anything apart from the really key developments. My general formula is to summarise the protagonist's goal in the first paragraph, giving a rough idea of the obstacles they face in the second, then one or two lines detailing the conclusion, plus any themes or motifs you may be playing around with in the third, or fourth if you have room.

Hope that helps.
 
Obviously I've never been professionally published, so take this advice with as much salt as required, but the handful of writing courses I've been on, some with agents giving the talks, having generally encouraged synopses to be kept to a single page. There's obviously a knack to getting it right, but you certainly only want to include the broadest strokes of the plot. So, for instance - and bear in mind this is off the top of my head, so will be rough - a very, very quick synopsis of Lord Of The Rings could be something like:

As I said, that's very rough and generic in parts, but I don't think you need a great deal more detail than that for anything apart from the really key developments. My general formula is to summarise the protagonist's goal in the first paragraph, giving a rough idea of the obstacles they face in the second, then one or two lines detailing the conclusion, plus any themes or motifs you may be playing around with in the third, or fourth if you have room.
Hope that helps.
Hmm. I should probably draft something of that sort, yes. I know when it comes to websites and agents, some want more details than others. This whole thing has really been a giant pain in the ass, especially when it comes to querying agents. Half are vague as fuck and don't update their info. Too many still want stuff sent via USPS because stone age or something.

I'll give this a go though, one page and mostly focused on Kit's main character arc, and see what happens.
 

xandaca

Member
Hmm. I should probably draft something of that sort, yes. I know when it comes to websites and agents, some want more details than others. This whole thing has really been a giant pain in the ass, especially when it comes to querying agents. Half are vague as fuck and don't update their info. Too many still want stuff sent via USPS because stone age or something.

I'll give this a go though, one page and mostly focused on Kit's main character arc, and see what happens.

I think the thing to remember is that any professional reading a synopsis wants to be grabbed immediately and quickly, with the key information delivered in easily digestible form to facilitate whatever decision they need to make. If the agent(s) in question requested a detailed two page synopsis, then naturally that's what you should do (which is outside my experience, so can't offer you any help there!), but as far as I'm aware, generally one page is viewed as the idea length. Good luck!

EDIT: As for agents requesting hard copies via USPS, to me that's actually preferable to sending emails. Emails are very easy to overlook and on two occasions, agents admitted to me they simply forgot about an email I'd sent in response to a request for more material. A hard copy, a big physical lump that takes up room on a desk or in a pile, is logically a lot harder to ignore or forget about, so to my mind, even if it's expensive to produce, I prefer to send hard copies where possible for that reason.
 
Sounds amazing. Hope you put up links when it's finished! As for my first book, I'm happy to send it to you if you'd be willing to share it on your social media (if you enjoy it, of course) or write a review on Amazon or something. I'm doing it to get my name out there for now, and while I'm very much in that 'impoverished writer' phase in real life (sadly a long way from being able to afford hiring an artist - the cover was indeed my own work, messing around with any appropriate free images I could find!), self-publication was always about my own fulfillment rather than making money - which, having put little to no effort into promoting that first book, is lucky! Just send me your email via PM if you're interested. Perfectly happy to do the same for anyone else, again in exchange for a share on social media, an Amazon review, or any other help with promotion.

Both Dead Drop and its sequel are very pulpy thrillers, so don't expect much, if any, serious examination of the Irish unrest in there, I'm afraid... the abiding subtext is more about the manipulative power and human cost of patriotism and nationalism on both sides, the powerful manipulating people into fighting their battles for them, and how 'the system' (so to speak) is an impossible trap no matter who or what you're fighting for, repeating itself across history.

But it's REALLY REALLY about chases, explosions, punch-ups and as much lunacy as I can cram into a single story.

(Oh, and if anyone wants to share follows on Twitter, I'm @xandermarkham; same goes for anyone with a dedicated facebook page, mine is here.)

Cheers, and will do~ I believe it's going up with the April issue, but the poor ladies are swamped over there, so who knows.

Book exchange-wise, I'd be interested in that a bit later in the month maybe? We're in full QA swing at work right now, so I haven't had much time or inclination to read for pleasure lately. A pulpy thriller sounds just right for a break down the line, though. Sitting back and enjoying explosions is essential for detoxing from work. :) Mine is a bit of beach reading too, so it's also best read with that mindset. Will ping you about it when I'm ready.

For other ways to get it out there, have you tried requesting reviews from bloggers yet? There are tons of professional or semi-professional book reviewers out there, so if you haven't, I think it's worth vetting some promising blogs and seeing if they'd be interested. I literally just sent out a few entreaties to bloggers for mine about an hour ago... (always a bit nerve-racking)

And, I'll add you on twitter. Here's mine: @HProtagonista
Do you have a Goodreads account yet?
 
I think the thing to remember is that any professional reading a synopsis wants to be grabbed immediately and quickly, with the key information delivered in easily digestible form to facilitate whatever decision they need to make. If the agent(s) in question requested a detailed two page synopsis, then naturally that's what you should do (which is outside my experience, so can't offer you any help there!), but as far as I'm aware, generally one page is viewed as the idea length. Good luck!

EDIT: As for agents requesting hard copies via USPS, to me that's actually preferable to sending emails. Emails are very easy to overlook and on two occasions, agents admitted to me they simply forgot about an email I'd sent in response to a request for more material. A hard copy, a big physical lump that takes up room on a desk or in a pile, is logically a lot harder to ignore or forget about, so to my mind, even if it's expensive to produce, I prefer to send hard copies where possible for that reason.
I can see emails being overlooked. I had a somewhat "in" with one agent as I know someone who worked with him. She sent him an email to look out for my submission, and his response was, "Awesome. Cant' wait. I'm way behind right now though, so it could be a bit"

AND THEN FORGETFULNESS SETS IN

Or I assume.

Regardless, it all boils down to doing what an agent wants. If someone wants a one page summary with the barest of facts, then that's what I send. The good thing about my current two page summary is that I can easily cut it down to one.
 

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
So I've decided to commit to writing as a career. I'm interesting in writing a novel, completing a screenplay, starting a blog, writing opinion pieces and more. Starting off I want to improve my ability to describe faces and the environment. Would writing descriptions for faces and environmental settings be the best approach to improvement? Any other tips? The OP feels a little sparse on improving your craft.

EDIT: Writing Excuses doesn't show up on iTunes or Instacast. How can I listen to it on my phone?
 

Mike M

Nick N
So I've decided to commit to writing as a career. I'm interesting in writing a novel, completing a screenplay, starting a blog, writing opinion pieces and more. Starting off I want to improve my ability to describe faces and the environment. Would writing descriptions for faces and environmental settings be the best approach to improvement? Any other tips? The OP feels a little sparse on improving your craft.

EDIT: Writing Excuses doesn't show up on iTunes or Instacast. How can I listen to it on my phone?

First rule of committing to a career is to have a fall back plan. Not to step on your dreams, but it's one of those fields where bunches of people want in, but a minuscule number actually make it.

As for the Writing Excuses podcast, yeah, I have no idea why it doesn't show up on iTunes, one of my friends had the same problem last week. There's a direct link to their iTunes listing on the podcast home page that works, though.
 

aidan

Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
First rule of committing to a career is to have a fall back plan. Not to step on your dreams, but it's one of those fields where bunches of people want in, but a minuscule number actually make it.

And, unless you're an A-List writer, or a machine and pumping out an unusual amount of writing each year, you're probably going to keep some sort of a day job for the first several years (or the entirety) of your published career. Even popular authors, like Kameron Hurley, who won two Hugo Awards last year, work a day job.

Really, the best advice for improving is to write. Write a lot and broadly. Then, when you're sick of writing, write more. Speaking of Writing Excuses, I've always found that their writing prompts are great at spurring me to try something new and challenging. (In fact, one of the stories in my upcoming collection exists solely because of a prompt from one episode!)

EDIT: Writing Excuses doesn't show up on iTunes or Instacast. How can I listen to it on my phone?

As for the Writing Excuses podcast, yeah, I have no idea why it doesn't show up on iTunes, one of my friends had the same problem last week. There's a direct link to their iTunes listing on the podcast home page that works, though.

You can also subscribe directly via their RSS feed via iTunes: http://www.writingexcuses.com/feed/podcast/
 

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
First rule of committing to a career is to have a fall back plan. Not to step on your dreams, but it's one of those fields where bunches of people want in, but a minuscule number actually make it.

As for the Writing Excuses podcast, yeah, I have no idea why it doesn't show up on iTunes, one of my friends had the same problem last week. There's a direct link to their iTunes listing on the podcast home page that works, though.
Writing IS my back up plan. I've tried three other career paths. I think writing fits my need to be independent. I've wanted to do it as a career for many years. My only concern is time management.

I should have a small, steady income by early next year. In the mean time I'll just leech off my parents. As much as I dislike to they're understanding of my mental illnesses.
 
Writing IS my back up plan. I've tried three other career paths. I think writing fits my need to be independent. I've wanted to do it as a career for many years. My only concern is time management.

I should have a small, steady income by early next year. In the mean time I'll just leech off my parents. As much as I dislike too they're understanding of my mental illnesses.

There are writers that do this for decades and still don't have a steady income from it. It's INCREDIBLY difficult to make a living off it if you have nothing prior to your name. In the case of being self-published, you'll probably lose more than you make unless you do everything from cover art to editing yourself.

Good luck with your goal, but it is good to have another back up plan.
 

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
There are writers that do this for decades and still don't have a steady income from it. It's INCREDIBLY difficult to make a living off it if you have nothing prior to your name. In the case of being self-published, you'll probably lose more than you make unless you do everything from cover art to editing yourself.

Good luck with your goal, but it is good to have another back up plan.
When I said a steady income I didn't mean from writing.
 

sirap

Member
Here's my tip from a financial perspective:

Publish fast, and publish often. You can write average books and still make a boatload of cash if you publish your books 2 weeks apart (assuming each book is 20k) Amazon goes crazy when you pump out books consistently, and will always prioritize fresh books in their lists (the 30 day cliff is real)

A close friend just hit their first $1,000,000 milestone on amazon with this schedule, and it only took them half a year (granted, they've been publishing for a year but KU really took things up a notch)
 

aidan

Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
Here's my tip from a financial perspective:

Publish fast, and publish often. You can write average books and still make a boatload of cash if you publish your books 2 weeks apart (assuming each book is 20k) Amazon goes crazy when you pump out books consistently, and will always prioritize fresh books in their lists (the 30 day cliff is real)

A close friend just hit their first $1,000,000 milestone on amazon with this schedule, and it only took them half a year (granted, they've been publishing for a year but KU really took things up a notch)

Also, write erotica.
 
Here's my tip from a financial perspective:

Publish fast, and publish often. You can write average books and still make a boatload of cash if you publish your books 2 weeks apart (assuming each book is 20k) Amazon goes crazy when you pump out books consistently, and will always prioritize fresh books in their lists (the 30 day cliff is real)

A close friend just hit their first $1,000,000 milestone on amazon with this schedule, and it only took them half a year (granted, they've been publishing for a year but KU really took things up a notch)

sirap, seriously, is this viable for anything outside of erotica?
 

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
I've thought this through more than ya'll think. I knew about all your concerns when I considered taking it up as a career years ago. I'm in a place in my life where I can't function well in society despite my efforts, so a more independent career is appropriate. I just need to work on dividing up my time and keeping focus.

Like I said, I should have a steady source of income by next year. If I'm poor for the next 10-20 years so be it. I've learned to become much more frugal.
 

sirap

Member
Also, write erotica.

sirap, seriously, is this viable for anything outside of erotica?

They used to write eroms, but have since shifted to romance with slightly milder romance. That said, he writes under multiple pen names so I don't really know what other genre he's in.

BUT, I also know someone who earns 15k a month writing spec-fiction, and his books are about as unromantic as you can get.

EDIT: Ok, apparently the spec-fiction author has gotten $250k for 2014. Not bad.
 
They used to write eroms, but have since shifted to romance with slightly milder romance. That said, he writes under multiple pen names so I don't really know what other genre he's in.

BUT, I also know someone who earns 15k a month writing spec-fiction, and his books are about as unromantic as you can get.

EDIT: Ok, apparently the spec-fiction author has gotten $250k for 2014. Not bad.

Okay, cool.

By the way, you said before there's a method to finding out genres that would work with this, but never posted it. Did it end up not being that useful?

Also, I assume the short stories are priced in the .99 range?
 
So I've decided to commit to writing as a career. I'm interesting in writing a novel, completing a screenplay, starting a blog, writing opinion pieces and more. Starting off I want to improve my ability to describe faces and the environment. Would writing descriptions for faces and environmental settings be the best approach to improvement? Any other tips? The OP feels a little sparse on improving your craft.

EDIT: Writing Excuses doesn't show up on iTunes or Instacast. How can I listen to it on my phone?

My go-to:

Limyaael's Writing Rants

Can't stop shilling how great an advice bank this is :eek:

Also, good luck ;)
 
Also, write erotica.

There should be a mini-NaNoWriMo where everybody writes and publishes a 20k erotica at the same time for the same price, then races them like horses to see who makes bank. Sirap can judge, Cosmic will host, and we'll all be rich and swimming in awkward sex scenes.
 
There are writers that do this for decades and still don't have a steady income from it. It's INCREDIBLY difficult to make a living off it if you have nothing prior to your name. In the case of being self-published, you'll probably lose more than you make unless you do everything from cover art to editing yourself.

Good luck with your goal, but it is good to have another back up plan.

Here's my tip from a financial perspective:

Publish fast, and publish often. You can write average books and still make a boatload of cash if you publish your books 2 weeks apart (assuming each book is 20k) Amazon goes crazy when you pump out books consistently, and will always prioritize fresh books in their lists (the 30 day cliff is real)

A close friend just hit their first $1,000,000 milestone on amazon with this schedule, and it only took them half a year (granted, they've been publishing for a year but KU really took things up a notch)

These sound conflicting and I'm not so sure if I should even be listening about the back up plan thing. It doesn't matter what you do, people are going to tell you it's next to impossible to get in there unless it's some sort of science related career.
 

sirap

Member
Yes, the chances of you becoming a revered author is incredibly slim, unless you have some god-tier skills AND luck. Seriously, have you read Fifty Shades? It's average at best, but it was the first of it's kind and sometimes that's all it takes.

For me, it's a numbers game. I don't give a shit if I'll never be JKR. That's an unrealistic goal, and I'll only waste time trying to get that super hit book. I just write as many books as I can and try to give what readers want.

One of my pen-name is a New York Time's bestseller, and that's good enough for me :)

If you can stomach shifter menage romance, go read Viola Rivard's books. She's another author who's well on her way to making her first million.
 
So, I started editing on my next project today. Pretty happy with the first 14 pages, so hopefully what I assumed would be a piece of shit actually won't be one. Still got a lot left to go though.

It's a horror novella, currently sitting at about 90 pages total. Hope to have draft two done by Sunday; then I can look for some test readers.
 

Neeener

Neo Member
It's not just romance... lots of genre novella authors are doing amazing on KDP... also non-fiction (20k words, how-to books) do really well.

From a marketing standpoint specificity is key with fiction or non-fiction. So if you can deliver exactly what someone is looking for, and it's a niche with enough people... you can carve yourself an audience.

The reason there is so much specific genre fiction is because when someone finishes a time-travel-forced-to-marry-a-scottish-highland-laird erotica novel... they will finish and want more, then they go back and look for something similar.

I personally will not be writing sex scenes anytime soon, so I am working mostly on non-fiction for kindle.

One other perspective on keeping the day job (or alternate income stream) is that you can write what you want! A lot to be said about writing what you love and not writing something you wouldn't even read yourself just because there is money in the niche.
 

aidan

Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
Anyone from Canada have experience publishing via Nook Press? I'm trying to setup a Vendor Account, but it won't let me due to living in Canada. Am I just not able to sell on Nook?

Also, perspective on KDP? Is it worth skipping over other platforms for the benefits offered by Amazon?
 

Krowley

Member
I haven't talked about this much on GAF, but I'm a writer, and I recently stumbled on something very useful in my own work. Since I've been lurking in this thread for a while without really contributing anything, I thought I might share it here....

[BTW, this is going to get a little long, so if you just want the meat, skip to the end section...]

I've always been totally unable to use outlines in my writing process. The lengthy job of developing the outline saps my enthusiasm, and I hate knowing the scene by scene details of a story before I dive in. Also, my outlines don't work at all in a practical sense when the rubber hits the road and the characters come to life. Within a couple of chapters, I'm so far off the outline that I would've been better off not to waste my time making it.

But I also have problems with discovery writing. My imagination is really crazy, and I don't have much discipline, so every neato idea that pops up while I'm writing gets incorporated somehow. By the time I finish the first draft of anything longer than 10,000 words, my story is incredibly incoherent. Characters change professions mid-draft. Characters appear, disappear, then reappear. My magic system changes three or four times. My main villain is a male, a female, a non-human, then back to a male again. Then I decide I want all the villains, so I keep them and turn them into a whole team of bad guys. There are usually dozens of unresolved plot threads, and long sections where the story goes off in totally unworkable directions until I hit a wall and have to invent some unlikely coincidence to get things back on track.

I don't generally fix as I go during that stage because I thrive on momentum and easily get bogged down in editing, so I just put notes to myself about the things I'm changing, and keep on writing. Consequently, reading my first draft--I think of it as a zero draft for obvious reasons--is like immersing yourself in the fever dream of a highly deranged lunatic.

Writing this way is fun, and the process of creating such an unrestrained draft is useful in many ways, but the result is such a mess that it makes the second draft really hard, and very slow to write. For example, I have one WIP where I was able to write a 130,000 word first draft in a couple of months, but I've been laboring on the second draft for more than a year with no end in sight.

As someone mentioned above, indie authors selling on Amazon need to generate a lot of material in a hurry for the best results, and my current speed of production just hasn't been cutting it

Now I think I've finally found a solution. It's working for me very well so far.

******The Solution******

Several years ago when Nanowrimo was first becoming a thing, a very prolific speculative fiction writer named Lazette Gifford came up with a method she called the Phase Outline. She posted an article about it that you can read right here.

This approach is not really like writing an outline at all because you have to get so deep into the weeds. There's no abstraction, no distance. It's actually more of an abbreviated draft than an outline. Every little kernel of every scene is worked out in advance, and you write the outline in the same way that you draft a scene. You have to immerse yourself in the moment by moment sequence of events, let it play out mentally in great detail, and describe it from beginning to end as it happens. The only real difference from writing a full length draft is that you don't bother with punctuation or formatting, and you greatly compress your language.

This results in something that's very long for an outline, but very short for the draft of a novel. I'm getting about three words of actual narrative for every word in my phase outline (I'm actually calling it my pocket draft). In her article, Lazette Gifford says she gets about 7 words, so I may be using a little more detail than she does. If any of you decide to try this, your mileage may vary.

Making tweaks and adjustments to this pocket-sized draft--even when you have to make changes that alter the whole shape of your story--is very easy, almost as easy as tweaking an outline, but the process of writing it absolutely mimics the experience of "pantsing" a full novel. There is the exact same sense of moment by moment discovery, and you are able to work on all the elements of fiction: the texture, the atmosphere, the character quirks, the flow, even the language... All those things are represented, but highly compressed.

Later, when you get ready to turn it into a full length draft, the whole thing practically writes itself. It's totally effortless, almost exactly like doing a quick polish on a draft you've already written. And it's very fast. Lazette Gifford says she gets up to 10,000 words a day working from her phase draft. I'm not that fast, but I'm getting more than 1000 decent words an hour, and the resulting work is good enough to share with somebody and get real feedback on my story, which wasn't true for my first drafts in the past. I'm getting second draft quality (for me) in a fraction of the time.

And best of all, it hasn't stifled my imagination in the slightest. I'm still making the same kinds of crazy decisions I always made on my first drafts, but all that is happening in the pocket draft, where it's easy to try things out and make adjustments.

I heard about this approach to planning years ago, but I ignored it because the idea of doing such a detailed "outline" was instantly unappealing. I just didn't understand back then that this really isn't like writing an outline at all. It's a very good middle ground between outlining and pantsing, with some of the benefits of both.

I would recommend anybody in a similar situation to give it a try. Use it with a short story first and see what you think of the process.

Anyone from Canada have experience publishing via Nook Press? I'm trying to setup a Vendor Account, but it won't let me due to living in Canada. Am I just not able to sell on Nook?

Also, perspective on KDP? Is it worth skipping over other platforms for the benefits offered by Amazon?

I'm not Canadian, so I can't speak to your first question, but on your second: I think KDP is generally worth it for indie writers, mainly because of Kindle Unlimited, which has been really decent so far. I don't have enough published work to give a definitive opinion, but it's not hard at all to get people to read 10% of a book. Readers have a very low resistance to giving something a cursory examination--even from a writer they've never heard of--when they don't have to pay any upfront money beyond their subscription fee.

Long term, I'm not sure how it will work out. Some writers with big names seem to dislike KU because they want more money per copy, but I feel like the volume can make up for it, and I feel like subscription models will soon take over all forms of media distribution.

There should be a mini-NaNoWriMo where everybody writes and publishes a 20k erotica at the same time for the same price, then races them like horses to see who makes bank. Sirap can judge, Cosmic will host, and we'll all be rich and swimming in awkward sex scenes.

I actually tried the erotica thing recently. I took a couple of my short stories that had the potential for sex but didn't have any actual sex, and I tweaked them pretty drastically, then put them up under a new pen name. They sold and are still selling, but the decline was pretty steep over time, and I discovered I can't write that kind of stuff fast enough to keep up with the rate of decline. I think you would need to produce at least a couple of stories a week to get any kind of momentum going.

And there really seems to be a huge benefit to having a big catalog. People read one book, then they read the other. I gave one of my stories away for free for a couple of days, and the other started selling fast again for about a week. I imagine the same thing would happen every time you released a new book, and as your catalog grows the whole thing probably gets magnified.
 

Mike M

Nick N
I can't do erotica. Even with the prospect of gangbuster profits, I wouldn't enjoy it. It'd be just like work, only without health insurance.
 
the conflict is Fifty shades of GAME ROOM versus a million times squat, jack, and nada.

Or PewDiePie versus everybody else.

Mistaking relevance for worth will end badly if you think you're the second. Sirap is gaming the first by playing the numbers game. If you're not going to do that amount of work, you're not going to get the price.

Of course, but it still sounds like an interesting prospect.


Yes, the chances of you becoming a revered author is incredibly slim, unless you have some god-tier skills AND luck. Seriously, have you read Fifty Shades? It's average at best, but it was the first of it's kind and sometimes that's all it takes.

For me, it's a numbers game. I don't give a shit if I'll never be JKR. That's an unrealistic goal, and I'll only waste time trying to get that super hit book. I just write as many books as I can and try to give what readers want.

One of my pen-name is a New York Time's bestseller, and that's good enough for me :)

If you can stomach shifter menage romance, go read Viola Rivard's books. She's another author who's well on her way to making her first million.

Haven't read 50 Shades and will probably spare myself the experience, but the success of it is still encouraging for fledgling writers (as well as embarrassing for writing as a whole in a way). I get that it's a numbers game, but despite erotica being far from my general interests, it still seems like an interesting challenge with wild card potential. Never hurts to try writing a new style either, as I've found out. Any time you want to drop more details/your experience with this method, I'm all ears.

And being on the NYT bestseller list? Super cool. Congrats!


I actually tried the erotica thing recently. I took a couple of my short stories that had the potential for sex but didn't have any actual sex, and I tweaked them pretty drastically, then put them up under a new pen name. They sold and are still selling, but the decline was pretty steep over time, and I discovered I can't write that kind of stuff fast enough to keep up with the rate of decline. I think you would need to produce at least a couple of stories a week to get any kind of momentum going.

And there really seems to be a huge benefit to having a big catalog. People read one book, then they read the other. I gave one of my stories away for free for a couple of days, and the other started selling fast again for about a week. I imagine the same thing would happen every time you released a new book, and as your catalog grows the whole thing probably gets magnified.

Duly noted! Thanks for sharing. Seems maybe starting with 5 20k shorts would be the way to go: 3 in the same series, and then two new stories in a similar vein. I've been a bit bored with some of my other projects, so this might be a fun break. Can't imagine how silly/fun doing the cover would be.
 

360pages

Member
Gah...when I see all of you talk, it just makes me realize you guys are on another level. Especially when I'm thinking about sharing something. I always think.

(Wow, this is shit compared to these guys, I'll come back when I have something more respectable.)

That never happens sadly.

Also, how would you guys rate White Smoke as a grammar editor, thinking about buying it.
 

Krowley

Member
Duly noted! Thanks for sharing. Seems maybe starting with 5 20k shorts would be the way to go: 3 in the same series, and then two new stories in a similar vein. I've been a bit bored with some of my other projects, so this might be a fun break. Can't imagine how silly/fun doing the cover would be.

Actually, 20k is not necessary unless you're more in the romance category. Most people are selling 4 to 8k shorts, and some people are going even smaller. Readers don't complain, at least not that much. Most aren't paying full price anyway since more than 80% seem to use Kindle Unlimited or the borrow system.

There might very well be major advantages to doing longer stories and novellas, but I haven't investigated it. I've heard that romance authors do even better than erotica authors, but the readers are more demanding.

One resource I found useful was the erotica authors subreddit. You can comb through there and find lots of info on the practical side of things (keywords, length, pricing, cover design, niches, titling). Neither one of my stories would've sold at all if I hadn't spent a few days there learning all the weird tricks.

edit// One option would be to write a 20k erotica story, and structure it so it would be easy to break up into a trilogy. I think there are a lot of people who work that way.
 
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