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[Haly]

That's not what YA is really about though. These are teenage audiences, they don't care for writing, and it's precisely for this reason that YA tends to be simplistic when it comes to prose. It is the vehicle, not the content. The content is young-ish hero/esheroines doing coming-of-age things.

No one markets YA based on prose. You'll find the same kind of writing in Romance novels and they have their own section in book stores for a reason.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

That's not what YA is really about though. These are teenage audiences, they don't care for writing, and it's precisely for this reason that YA tends to be simplistic when it comes to prose. It is the vehicle, not the content. The content is young-ish hero/esheroines doing coming-of-age things.

No one markets YA based on prose. You'll find the same kind of writing in Romance novels and they have their own section in book stores for a reason.

For sure, but I've picked up a good handful of the FOTM YA novels, and I've always come away disliking their writing. Or, that's always been the biggest problem. I didn't like The Hunger Games for a few other reasons, not jiving much with the main character or the world she was in being pretty high up there.

What I'm working on IS about a teenager in high school though, as I mentioned a few posts up. When he falls asleep, he finds himself in a library filled with spellbooks. He doesnt' know why, and when he's asleep, he can't wake himself up. Has to be an outside source (alarm clocks work). So he's in this spooky place learning magic, and the person--thing?--that owns the library isn't exactly pleased.

The library will soon open up into a castle.

My relationship with YA novels is kinda strange. I've read so many that I didn't like because they were the current big thing and I wanted to have an opinion on them. But they've also soured my mindset on the whole market. It feels strange writing something that would be sold in that section of books, even if what I'm working on his more horror than anything else.

 

[Haly]

Oh well, definitely YA in that case then.

On the bright side you get immediate access to a huge, voracious audience and a good shot at getting a movie deal so there's upsides, I guess?

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

Oh well, definitely YA in that case then.

On the bright side you get immediate access to a huge, voracious audience and a good shot at getting a movie deal so there's upsides, I guess?

There is that. Despite it being horror, it's still way more marketable than the other book I wrote that no one wants to touch

I feel like people write YA fiction for two reasons: the story calls for it or they know it's in vogue. The first is I guess what happened to me, and the second is what I've seen some writers I know want or try to do. It comes off as shameful because they're just trying to cash in on a big market right now and not tell a story they want.

But then, I can't blame someone for knowing how markets work. it's smart to play into what's popular. I can't hate it.

So I'm stuck in the middle, emotionally disliking a whole grouping of books with no rational reason to.

 

[toddhunter]

There is that. Despite it being horror, it's still way more marketable than the other book I wrote that no one wants to touch

I feel like people write YA fiction for two reasons: the story calls for it and they know it's in vogue. The first is I guess what happened to me, and the second is what I've seen some writers I know want or try to do. It comes off as shameful because they're just trying to cash in on a big market right now and not tell a story they want.

But then, I can't blame someone for knowing how markets work. it's smart to play into what's popular. I can't hate it.

So I'm stuck in the middle, emotionally disliking a whole grouping of books with no rational reason to.

Also people who just want to tell a YA story.

 

[eyeball_kid]

So I've been flaring bad in my hands and it's really hitting home how bad this disease really is when I can't even type and therefore write without a lot of pain. Is there free voice typing software that you guys know of?

:/ If you have a Mac, there's full dictation available, which you can turn on in the Dictation & Speech system preferences panel. I think Windows has something similar.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I do not unfortunately, but I am going to try and save up for something like Dragon. :/

On Topic, Hubba Hubba Challange:

A TON of people on Twitter are talking about my book and retweeting various ads (that I haven't paid for) for it. Some people even writing their own tweets pimping it.

This has resulted in zero sales and zero borrows.

I find wordsmith and breadwinner to be mutually exclusive to one another

 

[Ashes]

Sent out a short story. Rejected in a few hours. Boom.

 

[FlowersisBritish]

Sent out a short story. Rejected in a few hours. Boom.

The hell did you send it to where they rejected it in a few hours? I've submitted stuff two months ago and still not expecting a reply for another month.

 

[Mike M]

Sent out a short story. Rejected in a few hours. Boom.

I gotta find the time to get on the Submission Grinder, but it's such a grind...

Spoiler

I apologize for nothing

 

[Ashes]

Seems a bit unfair to call them out personally. But the list on the grinder has it if you search for those who respond within three days typically.

 

[aidan]

The hell did you send it to where they rejected it in a few hours? I've submitted stuff two months ago and still not expecting a reply for another month.

I've received a rejection from Lightspeed Magazine a few hours after submitting. Clarkesworld often turns around rejections in a couple of days.

 

[Mike M]

I've received a rejection from Lightspeed Magazine a few hours after submitting.

Well "Lightspeed" is right in the name...

 

[aidan]

Tide of Shadows update time!

After a quiet week or two, suddenly three reviews for the book have popped up in the past 24 hours, and they're all quite positive!

Rob Boffard (who writes for The Guardian, Wired, io9, and a bunch of other places):

This book is a little bit like an indie game. It doesn’t last long, but you can’t stop thinking about the damn thing. It’s the sort of book which would never, ever be put out by a big publisher, and yet you’re extremely glad that it exists.

[...]

Each of the stories is like a little clock: beautifully crafted, intricate, distinctively handmade, with a dozen tiny complications in its inner workings. The range is unreal: space stations, angel wings, fairytale dragons, ancient shadow monsters…all unconnected, and yet it feels like it’s all part of a bigger whole. It’s exquisite.

Nerds on Earth:

Each story has its own charm and is almost completely different from the others as far as style is concerned. I found this particularly relieving! Moher tells five stories in such a way that each could easily be mistaken for having been penned by unique authors. That beats the alternative of reading five stylistically identical stories obvious crafted by a single author – hands down.

Sean Smith:

The first thing that impressed me about this book was the cover. Hauntingly beautiful, with an impression of scale and loneliness, an impression which is realised and amplified throughout each of the five stories which make up this wonderful little volume.

Each of the five stories is told from one or more unique perspectives, and the characters Moher draws are achingly real. Although each story is short and so the time we get to spend with the characters is all too brief, each leaves a real sense of completion, which can be a problem in some works so short.

[...]

A very powerful work, with very much to recommend it.

The last two reviews came about after I put out a call on twitter, saying I'd happily send a copy of my book to any reviewers who wanted it. My tweet was RT'd by John Scalzi, and suddenly I was exposed to a whole new set of readers that weren't already familiar with my book/blog. It was a huge boost.

Currently, the book is sporting a respectable 3.85 stars on Goodreads. Considering the project spurred from my desire to publish these stories that were rejected by the pro-paying short fiction market, the positive response has been incredibly gratifying.

Well "Lightspeed" is right in the name...

To be fair, most of the time it takes them 3-4 days to respond, which is still extremely fast. I generally choose my submission order based on response time, so Lightspeed and Clarkesworld are always at the top of my list.

 

[aidan]

I always submit to Clarkesworld first. Incredibly fast turnaround.

Helps that they're also the cream of the crop--second only to Tor.com in terms of presence and reach, I'd say. (Not to mention $/word.)

 

[Dresden]

Sent out a short story. Rejected in a few hours. Boom.

I need to start doing this again.

 

[Ashes]

Tide of Shadows update time!

After a quiet week or two, suddenly three reviews for the book have popped up in the past 24 hours, and they're all quite positive!

Currently, the book is sporting a respectable 3.85 stars on Goodreads. Considering the project spurred from my desire to publish these stories that were rejected by the pro-paying short fiction market, the positive response has been incredibly gratifying.

Woot!

 

[Ashes]

I need to start doing this again.

You need to get your butt back into the challenge threads. Either of them is fine.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

I always submit to Clarkesworld first. Incredibly fast turnaround.

Huh. Maybe I should send em something. Shame Amp is too long

I both laughed and frowned at the "no talking cats with swords" thing, since that's basically my novel. Dunno how you can not want talking cats with swords >:[

 

[FlowersisBritish]

You all are ridiculous to me. I tend not to hear back from places until months after I submit. Guess I should try submitting to other places?

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

IIRC you submit to a lot of literary journals? Those tend to have much longer turnarounds. In SFF, between a month and two months is a pretty common turnaround time, and some places are significantly faster.

Don't suppose ya'll have a list of SFF journals that pay? I no longer have my subscription to...uh shit, can't remember the name of the database.

 

[Crash Station]

Short 7 done at 4.2k words. Did 1k of that in the last hour.

Tomorrow, I'm going to see if I can complete a short in a single sitting, just to see if I can do it. Might just unplug my internet to cut down on distractions.

 

[aidan]

Short 7 done at 4.2k words. Did 1k of that in the last hour.

Tomorrow, I'm going to see if I can complete a short in a single sitting, just to see if I can do it. Might just unplug my internet to cut down on distractions.

The other night, a single sentence in the book I was reading spurred an idea in my head. It started with a line, which I sort of stored away for later, thinking I'd explore it once I was done my current short story revisions, but it kept nagging at me. So, I wrote it down, then wrote the next sentence, the next, and the next. Suddenly, I had an 85% complete short story (it topped out at 1.9k words). It was a revitalizing process.

 

[FlowersisBritish]

Oh btw congrats on the reviews Aiden. I'm kinda super jelly. I think everyone here would love it if someone felt enough from their work to take the time and write a review. Must mean you did a good job with the book

It's on my to read list behind a rival's book and Catch 22

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

Try this: http://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/

Plenty of search options to find a good fit for your work.

Thank you sir!

 

[Ashes]

My friend was telling me how I absolutely did send out short story queries. I was like, did I? When? No idea what they're talking about. And they were like: Do you concede that my memory is better than yours? And I was like...I suppose so. Wait a second. dammit. That's not how you win an argument.

 

[360pages]

After looking though the smaller publishers and what not. I'm legit asking myself if a publisher would actually help me? I mean, I'm thinking about submitting works once I actually finish a novel. But looking at a lot of this stuff and the sales of those items from different stores. I'm realizing that maybe publishing exclusively on Amazon/Kindle for my first novel just to test it out might be for the best.

 

[Woorloog]

After looking though the smaller publishers and what not. I'm legit asking myself if a publisher would actually help me? I mean, I'm thinking about submitting works once I actually finish a novel. But looking at a lot of this stuff and the sales of those items from different stores. I'm realizing that maybe publishing exclusively on Amazon/Kindle for my first novel just to test it out might be for the best.

If you self-publish in Amazon (or whatever, is that even self-publishing), does something prevent you from getting, uh, real publisher later?
That is, do publishers take books that are already published in ebook format or something?

 

[Dresden]

After looking though the smaller publishers and what not. I'm legit asking myself if a publisher would actually help me? I mean, I'm thinking about submitting works once I actually finish a novel. But looking at a lot of this stuff and the sales of those items from different stores. I'm realizing that maybe publishing exclusively on Amazon/Kindle for my first novel just to test it out might be for the best.

Unless you're in a hurry for whatever reason, querying a few agents isn't going to hurt at all. And yes, hit up agents, not publishers.

If you self-publish in Amazon (or whatever, is that even self-publishing), does something prevent you from getting, uh, real publisher later?
That is, do publishers take books that are already published in ebook format or something?

Only if it's successful enough to make up for the obvious loss in control/share of the profits/etc.

 

[aidan]

This is a really thorough look at how Zen Cho sold her short fiction collection. Lots of interesting little nuggets in there about the publishing industry, and particularly relevant to what I just went through. (Though, there's no way a publisher would have touched my collection, for a variety of reasons--length and prior publishing history being tops.)

Oh btw congrats on the reviews Aiden. I'm kinda super jelly. I think everyone here would love it if someone felt enough from their work to take the time and write a review. Must mean you did a good job with the book

It's on my to read list behind a rival's book and Catch 22

Thanks! It's pretty cool to see people reviewing it, especially when the review comes from someone that I haven't provided with a review copy. Makes me feel like a real author! Haha.

I hope you enjoy the book! I'm more than a little nervous to be following Heller, though.

 

[Mike M]

Hitting up the Submission Grinder for the first time in weeks.

I really need to be better about this...

EDIT: Now I realize why I drag my feet on this, I don't seem to write much sci-fi or fantasy...

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I'm 27 pages in now. I made myself promise to write a page a day at the very least. I can't believe I'm sticking with this, I'm so excited. Even if I don't think it's all that great.

I'm so sorry to gush about this again, I've just never been able to hold to a routine before or commit to writing anything creative. I know it must seem trivial (27 is a very small number) to those of you who have published works.

 

[AngmarsKing701]

I'm 27 pages in now. I made myself promise to write a page a day at the very least. I can't believe I'm sticking with this, I'm so excited. Even if I don't think it's all that great.

I'm so sorry to gush about this again, I've just never been able to hold to a routine before or commit to writing anything creative. I know it must seem trivial (27 is a very small number) to those of you who have published works.

Congrats and just keep going. If you look at the the OP in this thread, there's a pic from a blog Chuck Wendig wrote that might help you. One page a day is great. It's more than I'm averaging these days.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

I'm 27 pages in now. I made myself promise to write a page a day at the very least. I can't believe I'm sticking with this, I'm so excited. Even if I don't think it's all that great.

I'm so sorry to gush about this again, I've just never been able to hold to a routine before or commit to writing anything creative. I know it must seem trivial (27 is a very small number) to those of you who have published works.

This is the kind of pace that got me through my first novel and a followup novella. A little a day and you'll get to the end.

I'm trying to get my other writer friends to try this method, but they'd rather not. So instead "WAH I CANT FINISH ANYTHING"

So yes. This is awesome, and I hope you continue working on your story! Now it should be routine though, which means you'll feel shitty if you skip a day :3

 

[Hyams]

Today I learnt EL James went to the same school as my girlfriend and the same university as me. Now considering co-writing an erotic novel with my girlfriend so we can make our millions.

 

[AngmarsKing701]

So what's the going rate on these bundles for the Hubba Hubba Challenge? I have three shorts, each of them in the 4.5k+ range. Each of the three is $2.99.

I'm bundling all three of them into one book. Simple cut and paste. Charge $4.99? And how does one make it appear that the bundling is saving a reader money (i.e., if they bought each of the individual books it would cost $9 but it's basically 50% off at $4.99).

 

[Soulfire]

So with E3 going on right now I'm not sure if anyone has paid attention to the email Amazon KDP sent out. Starting in July they're going to change how KDP select is paid out, instead of being paid per borrow that's read past 10%, they're going to start paying per page read.
https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A156OS90J7RDN

Not sure yet how I feel about this, what do you think sirap?

 

[Mike M]

So with E3 going on right now I'm not sure if anyone has paid attention to the email Amazon KDP sent out. Starting in July they're going to change how KDP select is paid out, instead of being paid per borrow that's read past 10%, they're going to start paying per page read.
https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A156OS90J7RDN

Not sure yet how I feel about this, what do you think sirap?

Seems the inevitable outcome of people gaming the system.

Get-rich-quick schemes aside, it certainly seems more fair and equitable.

 

[Soulfire]

Seems the inevitable outcome of people gaming the system.

Get-rich-quick schemes aside, it certainly seems more fair and equitable.

Yeah I'm glad I moved into writing longer works, a lot of questions, though, and I wish they'd given us more notice. Change is scary when it impacts your finances. Oh well, we'll see what happens.

 

[360pages]

I'm going to try for 500 words a day from now on.

 

[Soulfire]

I'm going to try for 500 words a day from now on.

500 is a good number. If you're able to do that every day for a year that's over 180k, even if you take weekends off you'll have 130k. That's a lot of words

 

[Crash Station]

So with E3 going on right now I'm not sure if anyone has paid attention to the email Amazon KDP sent out. Starting in July they're going to change how KDP select is paid out, instead of being paid per borrow that's read past 10%, they're going to start paying per page read.
https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A156OS90J7RDN

Not sure yet how I feel about this, what do you think sirap?

Hmm, with that example used, that would be $0.10 for every page read. Under that scenario, it would be both good and bad, as even some shorts would net more profit from a complete readthrough than an actual buy, but I'm sure more don't finish than do.

Of course that's really good for longer stuff. According to Amazon, my second novel is 553 pages. A single borrow read of that would get me over $50, more than ten times what a buy would get. That's insane even if it doesn't happen often (if ever).

Obviously the rates will adjust depending on the funds of the month, but it's definitely something that could have potential.

 

[Soulfire]

Hmm, with that example used, that would be $0.10 for every page read. Under that scenario, it would be both good and bad, as even some shorts would net more profit from a complete readthrough than an actual buy, but I'm sure more don't finish than do.

Of course that's really good for longer stuff. According to Amazon, my second novel is 553 pages. A single borrow read of that would get me over $50, more than ten times what a buy would get. That's insane even if it doesn't happen often (if ever).

Obviously the rates will adjust depending on the funds of the month, but it's definitely something that could have potential.

Yeah I don't see them paying $.10 a page lol Hopefully it's not less than $.01 a page which is what a lot of people I've read are saying. That's one of the concerns, though, we just don't know how much they're going to pay per page and none of the data we have now tells us how many pages people are reading of our books.
I'm trying not to freak out and just focus on writing, but it's hard. I just started making money from my writing, mainly from KU, I don't want to stop. Oh well, we'll see what the next months bring.

 

[360pages]

Hmm, it is difficult to think about. This also means that free promotions mean a lot less now. It also means that shorts overall are going to be harder sales.

As if I'm going to go though amazon or publish though a publisher...This is my very first novel, I'm going to try to make it as good as possible, but even I know it probably won't be past good-passable.

 

[Crash Station]

Yeah I don't see them paying $.10 a page lol Hopefully it's not less than $.01 a page which is what a lot of people I've read are saying. That's one of the concerns, though, we just don't know how much they're going to pay per page and none of the data we have now tells us how many pages people are reading of our books.
I'm trying not to freak out and just focus on writing, but it's hard. I just started making money from my writing, mainly from KU, I don't want to stop. Oh well, we'll see what the next months bring.

I know what you mean. Sucks to latch onto something like this just as the system changes. Just like when Youtube changed their algorithm and screwed over the livelihoods of a lot of people, this is something else that can do the same.

Are there forums/sites freaking out over this? Curious to see what accomplished short story writers are saying about it, particularly the ones that have/continue to make a ludicrous amount.

Edit: Also, where are you seeing it's definitely not .10 a page? I've seen a few people in some places say that might be right on the money.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

I'm going to try for 500 words a day from now on.

Awesome dude! When you're setting yourself a goal and a schedule, i'ts best to make it one you can hit. That insures you're getting something done.

 

[Soulfire]

I know what you mean. Sucks to latch onto something like this just as the system changes. Just like when Youtube changed their algorithm and screwed over the livelihoods of a lot of people, this is something else that can do the same.

Are there forums/sites freaking out over this? Curious to see what accomplished short story writers are saying about it, particularly the ones that have/continue to make a ludicrous amount.

Edit: Also, where are you seeing it's definitely not .10 a page? I've seen a few people in some places say that might be right on the money.

So far it's just speculation, no definite answer, we wont see that until Aug 15th probably. I'm just trying to keep my expectations down.
Kindleboards in their writers cafe is where I've been reading, they've got a thread going. They have a pretty diverse population of self-published writers.

 

[360pages]

Overall it makes my sells from the hubba bubba challenge sting less. But sucks because this really damages shorts selling and what not. In fact shorts overall will sell about the same but the author will earn less for them.

This also makes me question things like comics and graphic novels. Mostly because they are still classified under books in kindle most of the time.

 

[Plasticine]

Just noticed Amazon redesigned the layout for my book pages. The new look puts the series information upfront. Before, it was scatter shot. When you clicked the series title, it was simply a search engine result of items on Amazon. Now, everything is in one place. It shows the individual titles and the price for all three together. Really happy with the new look.

Edit: Looking around, it appears the change isn't uniform. Some authors have had their book pages updated to the new look, while others haven't.

 

[360pages]

Oh I know it only changes borrows, but shorter works usually got most of their income though borrows rather than full sales. At least from what I noticed.