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[SolVanderlyn]

How long do you expect it to be when you're done? 115k is already exceptionally long for a YA novel, which could make it a hard sell.aybe pitch it as a trilogy?

It already is the first book in a trilogy. x_x

It's not distinctly YA, and didn't start out as such... I could always pitch it as traditional fantasy/sci-fi.

 

[aidan]

It already is the first book in a trilogy. x_x

On the bright side, you're not about to finish a book. You're about to finish three books! This is basically what happened with Patrick Rothfuss' The Name of the Wind. He submitted it as a novel, but the agent/publisher said, "You know, this is good, but it's a trilogy, not a novel." With a few structural tweaks, you should be able to make appropriate adjustments.

Typical YA range is 50-75k—with 80k being the upper limit of what publisher will buy unless you're JK Rowling or Stephanie Meyer. Don't be discouraged by this—instead, think about how you might split the each book into its own trilogy. Your current trilogy would become a nine book series comprised of three distinct trilogies (Act 1, 2, and 3; think of the Star Wars movies). Wrap up the first book/trilogy with enough of an ending that reader will be satisfied, but also eager to jump into the second book/trilogy to start the next leg of the story.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

Just published my eighth SciFi romance.
By the time I finish all the rounds of edits and everything else I'm so ready to be done that I have a hard time caring any more. I pretty much enter fuck it mode and I have to fight with that and end up triple checking everything to make sure it's all right, which just makes me hate everything even more.
I can't even say I'm done yet because as soon as it's live I have to send out an email notifying my mailing list and update social media and my website. Then I have to start writing the next one.
Tired.

Eighth? You must be making money in this business. I want to be like you someday. You self-publish or you got a traditional deal?

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

Typical YA range is 50-75k—with 80k being the upper limit of what publisher will buy unless you're JK Rowling or Stephanie Meyer. Don't be discouraged by this—instead, think about how you might split the each book into its own trilogy. Your current trilogy would become a nine book series comprised of three distinct trilogies (Act 1, 2, and 3; think of the Star Wars movies). Wrap up the first book/trilogy with enough of an ending that reader will be satisfied, but also eager to jump into the second book/trilogy to start the next leg of the story.

Are you fucking serious? God damnit. My stupid YA novel is sitting at 84k or so words. I've already cut like 11k out of it. It'll probably lose another thousand before it's done done, but that's still longer than it needs to be then.

It's also kind of a horror book so already looking at a shit sell.

Fuck I suck at this.

 

[Soulfire]

The Breathe Between Stars

Phantoms of Many Hearts

All The Stars our Audience

The Curtains Rise

*Something to play off the opera/stage play thing*

The Stage is the Sky

I came really close to using The Breath Between Stars. I ended up with The Fringes of the Universe. We'll see if I end up regretting it, so far I like it.

Hey you managed to make more of a job out of it than most posting here (... sorry peeps). To be honest I'm really impressed with how well that worked out, going from the early 'hubba challenge' to actually making an income out of it. ( I was always kind of thinking 'it can't be that easy' when Sirap was talking about it, if you know what I mean. Obviously it's not easy to do, but the principles versus marketability seem 'too easy' from the outside. Like YA novels, really. It's too bad he got himself permed somehow :\ )
It's only been a year or so, so that is really impressive. Murderous rate at which to write those novels (or are they novella's? Novella is between 10k and 50k words in most definitions), but the growth rate is a lot better than you would get from a linear 'by the hour' type job. Assuming you didn't dip down for some reason that is, aside from the changes in how borrows are paid now.

They're 40k plus, so far I haven't had anyone complain about the length. In the SciFi Romance best seller list on Amazon book lengths are anywhere from 90-350 pages. 40k puts me from 130-150 pages (Amazon is inconsistent).
I was really close to breaking $1k then Amazon changed how their borrows are paid. Haven't gotten up that high again but I make a few hundred dollars a month so that's nice.
I've got a self-publishing/writing to do list that goes out into 2018, so far I've done good sticking with it, we'll see if I can hold on that long. I'll probably re-evaluate at the end of this year and see what changes I want to make.
I could do a better job writing to market and should probably read more SciFi romance since a common comment on my books is that they aren't like other SciFi Romance. Oh well, that's something I continue to think about and I'll have to eventually make a decision on.

Eighth? You must be making money in this business. I want to be like you someday. You self-publish or you got a traditional deal?

lol, I don't know if anyone has ever said that to me. I make about an average, right now, of approximately $500 a month. I've had months a few hundred higher than that, lately, since I haven't had a new release, I've been just barely above $300. Hopefully yesterday's release boosts me.
I self-publish, I never even tried the traditional route. I was never inspired to send in anything I wrote because I looked at the rejection percentages and didn't think I stood a chance.

 

[Mike M]

Oooh, got a letter saying no but to send more in another time. Not sure if that's a form response...

 

[Dresden]

Oooh, got a letter saying no but to send more in another time. Not sure if that's a form response...

Depends on the pub but it's usually a higher tier form.

 

[Beaniedude]

Hello Writing GAF. I sometimes pop in every now and again and just want to say that I have finally finished the first draft of my novel.
I think I started it during the 2014 NaNoWriMo, or maybe even the 2013 NaNoWriMo, and only during the last couple of months have I really plugged away at it.

I sent it to a few friends. Only a few have managed to read it so far but the response has been positive. However I'm not sure if they are just being tactful or not because I look at the ending and I know that it is a bit rushed and I can see how the resolution might feel cheap in a way but no one shares my views. Maybe I'll just give it some time to get feedback from other sources.

So early reception has been positive. And not just, "Oh, this is good." but "Oh, this is actually good. I half expected it to be terrible."


Finally finishing off that first draft is a good feeling. I suppose now I jump straight back into it and keep hacking away until it resembles something somewhat professional.

 

[Reedirect]

I'm currently solving an oh-so-familiar problem of having an incompetent (or not competent enough) protagonist in my second thriller.

She's a 21 y.o. journalism student who comes home after a year long trip to find her whole family missing. It's not too long before shit hits the fan, and once that happens, it's complicated to have her deal with dangerous, near-death experiences in other ways than just running away from them. And it feels cheap to give her slight background in gun manipulation or even martial arts, since it just doesn't fit her overall persona.

Anyone with similar issues here? If so, any tips?

 

[Wafflecakes]

I'm currently solving an oh-so-familiar problem of having an incompetent (or not competent enough) protagonist in my second thriller.

She's a 21 y.o. journalism student who comes home after a year long trip to find her whole family missing. It's not too long before shit hits the fan, and once that happens, it's complicated to have her deal with dangerous, near-death experiences in other ways than just running away from them. And it feels cheap to give her slight background in gun manipulation or even martial arts, since it just doesn't fit her overall persona.

Anyone with similar issues here? If so, any tips?

I agree. Weapons/combat experience is very expected and leaders to a boring book imo.

Maybe give her a sportsman background? Like... maybe as a rock-climber.

That way she can at least run away in interesting ways, and maybe use tools related to her chosen sport to actively thwart those after her?

 

[Hop]

It's also perfectly valid for her to be lucky with weaponry, once, especially if it would instill a false sense of confidence in her. So when she isn't lucky the second time, well, there's another way for things to go.

 

[AngmarsKing701]

Hello Writing GAF. I sometimes pop in every now and again and just want to say that I have finally finished the first draft of my novel.
I think I started it during the 2014 NaNoWriMo, or maybe even the 2013 NaNoWriMo, and only during the last couple of months have I really plugged away at it.

I sent it to a few friends. Only a few have managed to read it so far but the response has been positive. However I'm not sure if they are just being tactful or not because I look at the ending and I know that it is a bit rushed and I can see how the resolution might feel cheap in a way but no one shares my views. Maybe I'll just give it some time to get feedback from other sources.

So early reception has been positive. And not just, "Oh, this is good." but "Oh, this is actually good. I half expected it to be terrible."


Finally finishing off that first draft is a good feeling. I suppose now I jump straight back into it and keep hacking away until it resembles something somewhat professional.

Congrats! Such an awesome accomplishment!

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

I feel like there's a fine threshold between tipsy editing and drunk editing. The former I'm apt to give just slightly less of a shit and cut all the crappy sentences/rewrite them. The latter I'm filled with typos and maybe should just stop now before I ruin everything more than what is already ruined.

Also, hello Jim Bean, you silly scamp you!

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I feel like there's a fine threshold between tipsy editing and drunk editing. The former I'm apt to give just slightly less of a shit and cut all the crappy sentences/rewrite them. The latter I'm filled with typos and maybe should just stop now before I ruin everything more than what is already ruined.

Also, hello Jim Bean, you silly scamp you!

Drunk writing? Hell yes. Let the creativity flow.

Drunk editing? You must be insane.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

Drunk writing? Hell yes. Let the creativity flow.

Drunk editing? You must be insane.

I write books. I clearly can't be sane

But yeah. Overdid it this night, which means comic books and silly youtube videos. Got a lot of catching up to do tomorrow though :[

 

[Mediking]

Just discovered this thread..... I AM HOME. I LOVE TO WRITE.

 

[zulux21]

Just discovered this thread..... I AM HOME. I LOVE TO WRITE.

I also just discovered this thread...
subscribing if for no other reason than when ever this thread gets bumped it can remind me to stop being lazy and write, as I need to follow the advice in the image in the OP and just write some each day even if it sucks, as forcing out something can lead to either garbage, decent stuff, or something great. Doing nothing leads to nothing, and I have been working on my main story for way to many years for it to continue to be nothing (on and off for 12 years >.<) I need to just continue on with my rewrite of the first third of my series, and then move onto the stuff I had planned but didn't get to.

 

[Mediking]

I also just discovered this thread...
subscribing if for no other reason than when ever this thread gets bumped it can remind me to stop being lazy and write, as I need to follow the advice in the image in the OP and just write some each day even if it sucks, as forcing out something can lead to either garbage, decent stuff, or something great. Doing nothing leads to nothing, and I have been working on my main story for way to many years for it to continue to be nothing (on and off for 12 years >.<) I need to just continue on with my rewrite of the first third of my series, and then move onto the stuff I had planned but didn't get to.

Hahaha well it's nice to meet you! I'm in a very similar situation like the one you described.

 

[AngmarsKing701]

Just discovered this thread..... I AM HOME. I LOVE TO WRITE.

I also just discovered this thread...
subscribing if for no other reason than when ever this thread gets bumped it can remind me to stop being lazy and write, as I need to follow the advice in the image in the OP and just write some each day even if it sucks, as forcing out something can lead to either garbage, decent stuff, or something great. Doing nothing leads to nothing, and I have been working on my main story for way to many years for it to continue to be nothing (on and off for 12 years >.<) I need to just continue on with my rewrite of the first third of my series, and then move onto the stuff I had planned but didn't get to.

Welcome! I'm a long time writer and frankly going through some of this myself. Finding it very difficult to carve out time to write. Way too easily distracted by just about everything (Netflix, family, GAF, etc.).

 

[zulux21]

Hahaha well it's nice to meet you! I'm in a very similar situation like the one you described.

heh, glad I am not alone.
but yeah, I have realized I can't give up the story I am working on, I need to finish it to feel alright working on other projects. I always seem to leave things half finished so it would be nice to finish a project I want to do, even if that project has a legitimate chance of being over a million words when all is said and done >.<;

Welcome! I'm a long time writer and frankly going through some of this myself. Finding it very difficult to carve out time to write. Way too easily distracted by just about everything (Netflix, family, GAF, etc.).

I can find time (I only work part time in order to have time for projects as my wife is alright with that), but I get distracted by stuff. I will write for a bit (as in a week or two), and then I feel like I don't play enough games, or that I am being on stuff I watch to watch. Or heck creative project wise behind on creating music, working on video game design, doing opinion articles for the fun of it, or heck I even took some time to work on what would be a audio diary drama (my main writing style is far more akin to a fantasy adventure with plenty of comedy but a lot of my side stuff ends up being more psychological thriller even though I tend to find those boring >.<

but yeah, I slept on it and I think I am just gonna go for it, and seriously use this thread to keep reminding me to write lol. I wrote a little over 1k words last night in around an hour, I can likely devote 15 hours a week without much issue, so I think 50k words a month is a reasonable goal, and if I keep making it I will accidentally cover nano in nov including april there are 9 months left to this year which would be 450k words which should put me somewhere around the half way point of the story I want to tell which will be a good start to finishing my story.


hmmmmm.... I suppose I should maybe think about trying to find some people who want to read a fantasy adventure in a style similar to japanese light novels before I have 500k plus words to it as that could be a hard sell lol. (I am done worrying about eventually publishing it or anything like that, it can be edited down later, now is just the time to finish it >.<

for the record, I know I am crazy

 

[Noirulus]

Hey guys, I just started writing about a month ago. I'm glad I discovered it, because it's a nice outlet for stress and imagination. Obviously I'm still a novice, but if you could read a bit of my work and give me some constructive criticism, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Link


edit: Nothing eh

 

[Elfforkusu]

Well, this is depressing:
http://www.annchristy.com/ku-scammers-on-amazon-what-you-need-to-know/

Figure your shit out, Amazon.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

So my goal was to finish--FINISH--my book by the end of the month, but I'm thinking that won't happen. I just don't love parts of it yet, and 12 days might not be enough to change that.

So there will very likely be a draft five.

Of course the problem is I'm kinda at the point where I'm questioning every other little, stupid mundane thing that probably doesn't matter, so I"ll be half crazy by the time this IS done.

I'll also have no idea if it's good or not, which I guess is what I strive for.

 

[Reedirect]

You could give her different ways of running away. Like one time actually running, one time sneaking, one time successfully disguising herself, etc. You could have her leverage her actual skills somehow? Maybe she has a dead-drop file that'll go to her journalist buds if something happens to her, that she can use to threaten the enemy. Maybe her journalistic investigation has uncovered something she can use to bribe the baddies. Maybe she's a big talker and bluffs her way out of something.

There's tons of options besides physical fighting.

I'm starting to think you're right and the problem lies more in the situations rather than her actually being incompetent. Will think of something different to put her through. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Dresden]

Just discovered this thread..... I AM HOME. I LOVE TO WRITE.

I envy you, writing is the fucking worst. The worst!

 

[Soulfire]

Well, this is depressing:
http://www.annchristy.com/ku-scammers-on-amazon-what-you-need-to-know/

Figure your shit out, Amazon.

I've noticed so many KU scammers in my genre, SciFi romance. It's to the point now where even when I publish a new book I'm not getting the visibility I use to. I can't fault the readers at all for not wanting to try someone they don't know because there's so much of this going on. It's depressing. Just when I start to make some headway I get pushed back down.

 

[Mike M]

I envy you, writing is the fucking worst. The worst!

Only because the constant rejection from markets grinds your aspirations to a fine powder beneath its heel.

 

[BorkBork]

One of my personal essays just got published in Zoomorphic yesterday, a great little UK magazine focused on wildlife and conservation writing:

A Tapir's Tale

I have no aspirations about writing anything long, but I'm working on a few flash pieces and am taking an online course through Creative Non-Fiction on flash essays. It's been a fun experience.

 

[JaseMath]

Martial stife makes making writing with a clear head really hard, if not impossible.

That is all.

 

[Ashes]

One of my personal essays just got published in Zoomorphic yesterday, a great little UK magazine focused on wildlife and conservation writing:

A Tapir's Tale

I have no aspirations about writing anything long, but I'm working on a few flash pieces and am taking an online course through Creative Non-Fiction on flash essays. It's been a fun experience.

Woot! Congrats.

 

[AngmarsKing701]

One of my personal essays just got published in Zoomorphic yesterday, a great little UK magazine focused on wildlife and conservation writing:

A Tapir's Tale

I have no aspirations about writing anything long, but I'm working on a few flash pieces and am taking an online course through Creative Non-Fiction on flash essays. It's been a fun experience.

Congrats! That's awesome!

 

[Timu]

I envy you, writing is the fucking worst. The worst!

It's the best actually.

 

[zulux21]

the plus side.
since posting in this thread that I will just say screw it and write a little under 48 hours ago I have written about 7k words (sadly I work tomorrow morning and can't write much tonight, but after work ideally I can get out another 1-2k words).

the minus side.
I discovered a lot of new contradictions going back and rechecking what was going on after my last long break. The biggest of which is I have two different full names for one of my main characters that I always refer to by a shortened version of her name lol. I also discovered that past me never decided how I wanted to rework the abilities in my story as I didn't feel they were original enough from my first draft (luckily current me had mostly figured it out and apparently never wrote it down in the past )

the odd side.
I have action scenes in my story and I forgot how fun it was to act out the scenes to make sure that they make sense when writing them

 

[BorkBork]

Woot! Congrats.

Congrats! That's awesome!

Thanks, that was encouraging in the face of a slew of rejections. But that's pretty standard

I have another thing in the works with a great magazine, but it's been in progress for a looong time. I won't believe it until I have the issue in my hand.

 

[Pazu]

anyone in here using Storium? thinking about using it with my co-author, see if it injects some new energy into the writing grind.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

the odd side.
I have action scenes in my story and I forgot how fun it was to act out the scenes to make sure that they make sense when writing them

Oh good I'm not the only one who has done that

 

[FlowersisBritish]

Oh good I'm not the only one who has done that

Action scenes? How about any scene. I will pet an imaginary dog for hours to get the words right.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

Action scenes? How about any scene. I will pet an imaginary dog for hours to get the words right.

Naw. I've only done it with action stuff, like sword fights I'll grab a knife or something and make sure I wrote make physical sense.

Ah who am I kidding. I'm one of those dumbass nerds with fantasy swords hanging on his wall. I use one of those

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

I really do find action scenes to be the hardest thing for me to write.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I really do find action scenes to be the hardest thing for me to write.

Opposite for me. Action is easy, everydayness is difficult.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

What the hell is everydayness?

 

[SolVanderlyn]

What the hell is everydayness?

Are you serious?

Normal occurrences. People entering a room, describing the room. People talking about their environment. People eating a meal together. People going from one place to another. Normal-ish stuff.

 

[Timu]

I really do find action scenes to be the hardest thing for me to write.

They're the easiest for me actually since I tend to be descriptive with them!

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

I really do find action scenes to be the hardest thing for me to write.

I thought I was good at them and that they were easy to write until my beta readers killed that dream.

But with enough feedback and cutting, I do think what I have as far as action works pretty well. I was being WAY too descriptive my first attempts, making them boring and hard to follow.

 

[zulux21]

I really do find action scenes to be the hardest thing for me to write.

hardest thing for me is describing things such as how people look or how a room is laid out. I find that stuff unimportant and boring so I don't usually think to much about it (unless it is something I feel important such as someone having facial scaring to hint that they are afraid of fire ect) I am not really sure if I could draw how my main character would really turn out lol.

Easiest thing for me would likely be dialog between people. while I don't think about what a character looks like I tend to think a ton about their motivations and how they would react to things and often just imagine scenes playing out (sometimes even going back and forth out loud trying to get the pauses right) and then write what i see and hear from that scene.

I am alright with action, but I don't go into enough detail because I care far more about what characters are saying and feeling. When I go back to edit I plan to add a lot more detail to scenes though. that being said today's work was entirely devoted onto figuring out a few styles of combat to use.

 

[cloudwalking]

Martial stife makes making writing with a clear head really hard, if not impossible.

That is all.

I hear you. Any kind of stress always impacts my writing quality -- for me it's job stress right now. It just makes it that much harder to get the words down. Hang in there!

I really do find action scenes to be the hardest thing for me to write.

I hate writing action scenes. I tend to botch them one of two ways: either I underwrite them because I'm trying to keep the pace up, and then the prose is too sparse and boring, or I overwrite them while trying to avoid the sparse prose and then they end up sluggish and melodramatic. It's like I can't find that happy medium.

 

[Dresden]

Approaching a personal milestone. One more short story to write and then I'll be focusing on getting a book out. The book will feature bookish things like plot and characters and themes.

 

[zulux21]

I am realizing, I seem to have an obsession with facial reactions to stuff, especially smiling, smirking, laughing ect.


ill worry about that on the editing stage lol.

in other thoughts, does anyone else often listen to music while writing, perhaps changing music depending on the scene going on?

granted, tonight I am just listening to the best of Prince to honor him. but typically I will try to somewhat match my music to what I am writing.

 

[Noirulus]

edit: nvm

 

[AngmarsKing701]

Oh shit.

So I'm working on book 2 of my series. I will say that I'm stalled. I've reached a critical point in the middle of the book where the main character will shift, will become someone/something else, due to circumstances which he himself caused. He's basically sacrificing himself. But I've been six months in these two chapters where this shift occurs. Puddles of words, here and there, but nothing like a stream. Months go by without me even opening the file to do anything about it. It's not a block so much as it's a lethargy.

In some ways I enjoy the actual setting up of the story rather than the execution of the setup. And I'm at that point, where the execution must now occur.

And so my brain, my darling brain full of fucking ideas, has decided to think about something else. Maybe a couple days ago, something hit me, and I can't remember now what it was. Maybe it was the TWD finale with Maggie potentially losing the baby, maybe it was a song I heard that was sad, maybe it was all the post apocalyptic stuff I watch... whatever the case, my brain hit upon an idea.

A wonderful, awful idea.

And now my brain won't stop thinking about that idea, and creating the story around that idea, and making that idea be the idea that I should be working on instead of trying to push through the execution of book 2.

Dammit, brain.

(And yes, it's a fucking great idea.)