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Writing-GAF: Writing, Publishing, Selling |OT|

Krowley

Member
Thanks for the great responses, everyone (especially the above two, wow).

I had everything internal until I realized I shift characters sometimes throughout the story. It's not like Chapter 1 is Character A and Chapter 2 is Character B, though - there is one main MAIN character and occasional breaks to see things happening in another place. Example:

SolVanderlyn was posting on the GAF writing thread, and he was immensely pleased, if not a little surprised, to see the enthusiasm with which people responded to his post. It was a good sort of surprise, of course - the type of surprise one feels when they receive a gift on their doorstep that they had not been expecting.

-----------------

VanderSol prepared to knock on the door. "It's now or never," he said aloud.

The --------- break is always used as a sort of meanwhile... in my story, but the secondary characters never have internal monologue. I went back and took out the main character's inner thoughts to keep it consistent. I suppose I could have added internal monologue to the secondary characters, as well, but I want them to feel secondary, so I have reservations about allowing the reader inside of their heads.

Sounds to me like this is really an issue of different kinds of viewpoints.

You've got normal 3rd person limited for your main character, and you're also doing Objective Omniscient for your secondary characters, and using scene breaks to slip from one viewpoint style to another.

That's not really typical, but I think I've seen something similar in a few Thriller books.

And there are writers who vary viewpoint style quite a bit throughout their books. Stephen King almost always writes in omniscient but he varies the style of Omniscient depending on the type of chapter. Sometimes he's basically doing 3rd person limited with very occasional head-hopping (always used in the correct way so that it doesn't become confusing.) Other times he takes a really distant viewpoint with no access to characters' internal thoughts. There's a chapter in Salem's Lot, for example, where he jumps over the whole town, talking about all the characters and giving an overview of events, and there's a very definite feeling of a disembodied, impersonal narrator.

So, in short, I think what you're talking about can work. The viewpoint character's scenes absolutely can feel a little different than the scenes with your secondary characters, particularly if they are short scenes and only intended as a plot device.

Here's a good site with information on different kinds of viewpoints: http://www.fiction-writers-mentor.com/point-of-view-in-fiction/

My advice would be to read a lot, see how other writers do things, and learn by example. A lot of really good writers break the "rules" very frequently, so you shouldn't necessarily tie yourself in knots trying to follow standard practices. Still, it's good to know what the standard practices are, and why writers tend to do things in certain ways. But what actually works in popular fiction is often very different than what writing manuals will tell you, so when in doubt, always look at what's selling, and what readers enjoy.
 

Jintor

Member
Writemonkey is a very cool distraction free editor with markup support that has quite a few advanced features under the hood if you do some investigating--almost comparable to Scrivener really, in some ways--and it has fully customizable background and text color. It's donationware that you can use free as long as you want. I'm writing the first draft of my current WIP on it, and the rabbithole of features has really impressed me, but even if you don't need a huge amount of depth, it's also really good for any sort of basic writing.

Q10 is also good, but a little more basic and the interface is strictly keyboard based.

Thanks much, exactly what I need right now
 
Hit 170 pages in my current book. Behind my hopeful quota of a 100 pages a month, but oh well. Close enough.

THis book has gone in some strange fucking directions though. I never thought i'd address why all these talking toys can talk, but it's heading that way. I also need to start offing some characters since I have too many of them and am sick of a few. Next chapter will see the deaths of some, but I really need to go on like a murder spree soon :p

Plus, there's no danger if no one ever dies. The hard part will be killing characters I DO like, like the crazy driver the G.I. army have. He's fun, but expendable. So's the demoman.
 

Tosyn_88

Member
Hit 170 pages in my current book. Behind my hopeful quota of a 100 pages a month, but oh well. Close enough.

THis book has gone in some strange fucking directions though. I never thought i'd address why all these talking toys can talk, but it's heading that way. I also need to start offing some characters since I have too many of them and am sick of a few. Next chapter will see the deaths of some, but I really need to go on like a murder spree soon :p

Plus, there's no danger if no one ever dies. The hard part will be killing characters I DO like, like the crazy driver the G.I. army have. He's fun, but expendable. So's the demoman.

Don't explain why the toys can talk, just give subtle hints that's not obvious
 
Don't explain why the toys can talk, just give subtle hints that's not obvious
Yeah I'm not sure if I'll outright say it, but i do want them to start questioning it once they figure out they are toys.

The novel is half comedy half fucking dark nonsense, so if I do answer it, it'll wind up being some kind of Night and the Museum thing found after the toystore is burned to the ground.
 

Tosyn_88

Member
Hi writer GAF, jus thought I'd seek some feedback regards to my project. It's supposed to be a sci-fi thriller of sorts and be very pleased to get some strong opinions regarding how it reads.

It's first pages (1-3) have been watered into the online page www.v22marz.com with subsequent chapters to follow.

I'd really like to know if the flow is ok, was it an easy read, does it justify it's pace, that kind of thing.

Hopefully it's not a total mess as I'm assuming
 

Tosyn_88

Member
Yeah I'm not sure if I'll outright say it, but i do want them to start questioning it once they figure out they are toys.

The novel is half comedy half fucking dark nonsense, so if I do answer it, it'll wind up being some kind of Night and the Museum thing found after the toystore is burned to the ground.

Sounds very interesting, it sounds like Toy Story for adults.
 
Hey guys. I'm currently sitting on a fiction story I started writing almost a year ago and never got around to doing anything with. Once I finished editing it down and trimming the fat off it, I was left with a story 8,800 words long... What exactly do I do with it?

I've been told it's too long to typically be counted as a short story and too short to be much else. I'd really rather not add on to it to artificially drag out the length and I've already cut a much as I'm comfortable with cutting, if not maybe a little more. Any suggestions as to what I can use something of this length for/where it could be submitted?
 
Sounds very interesting, it sounds like Toy Story for adults.
That is the aim, yeah. Or at least, that's how I'll sell it. All of the toys save like three are like Buzz Lightyear in the first movie: They think everything going on is real. It's mostly funny though hard to work around, but now that I'm far enough in, they're all beginning to wonder how real they are.

Becuase I guess this thing has to get existential :p

It's been a very, very strange writing ride. Just got done rereading all of Frank's chapters (or Water Gecko is his code name (which he hates)) to make sure I'm constant in voice. Mostly am. Anything that isn't can be fixed later.

Tomorrow I jump back to him as the badguys start executing some good guys. They also have a remote controlled helicopter to use, which I just realized wouldn't really work. to be big enough to fit a toy soldier it wouldn't fly. Too heavy. But since I'm kinda saying fuck it to realism more and more...eh, I'll go with it. Will be fun letting some people fly around. Maybe I'll crash and kill them later, I dunno.
 

Tosyn_88

Member
That is the aim, yeah. Or at least, that's how I'll sell it. All of the toys save like three are like Buzz Lightyear in the first movie: They think everything going on is real. It's mostly funny though hard to work around, but now that I'm far enough in, they're all beginning to wonder how real they are.

Becuase I guess this thing has to get existential :p

It's been a very, very strange writing ride. Just got done rereading all of Frank's chapters (or Water Gecko is his code name (which he hates)) to make sure I'm constant in voice. Mostly am. Anything that isn't can be fixed later.

Tomorrow I jump back to him as the badguys start executing some good guys. They also have a remote controlled helicopter to use, which I just realized wouldn't really work. to be big enough to fit a toy soldier it wouldn't fly. Too heavy. But since I'm kinda saying fuck it to realism more and more...eh, I'll go with it. Will be fun letting some people fly around. Maybe I'll crash and kill them later, I dunno.

Sounds really nice, taking a twist on familiar narratives are always cool. To be honest, at some point, you have to throw the science out of the window and go with what you really feel is best
 
Hey guys. I'm currently sitting on a fiction story I started writing almost a year ago and never got around to doing anything with. Once I finished editing it down and trimming the fat off it, I was left with a story 8,800 words long... What exactly do I do with it?

I've been told it's too long to typically be counted as a short story and too short to be much else. I'd really rather not add on to it to artificially drag out the length and I've already cut a much as I'm comfortable with cutting, if not maybe a little more. Any suggestions as to what I can use something of this length for/where it could be submitted?

If you're interested in publishing it, I'd honestly try to trim it down to the 7,000- 7,500 range that most presses seem to be interested in. That said, some genre places will accept up to 10,000 words so depending on what your story is, there may be hope for an unedited draft yet.

The final thing to do would be send it out anyway. Some literary journals take novellas. One guy in my program had his novella published in the Seattle Review, and it was the only bit of fiction that issue.
 
If you're interested in publishing it, I'd honestly try to trim it down to the 7,000- 7,500 range that most presses seem to be interested in. That said, some genre places will accept up to 10,000 words so depending on what your story is, there may be hope for an unedited draft yet.

The final thing to do would be send it out anyway. Some literary journals take novellas. One guy in my program had his novella published in the Seattle Review, and it was the only bit of fiction that issue.

Alright then, that's good to know. Thanks!
I'm going to take another stab at editing it down some more, but I will definitely start putting it out there to other places in the mean time. Guess I could always get lucky with it.
 

Ashes

Banned
Ok, now that I've polished up my manuscript for the third time, I have another question.

I went and removed the character's internal thoughts and replaced them with third person narration, but I'm not sure if that was a good idea. I know it's a matter of taste, but what do you tend to find more effective - third person with internal thoughts or descriptive thoughts?

Ex:

SolVanderlyn posted on NeoGAF. "I hope I get some good feedback," he thought to himself.

SolVanderlyn posted on NeoGAF. He silently hoped to himself that the other posters would give him some good feedback.

I'm a bit torn right now...

Actually it's not a matter of taste so much as a big glaring sign telling everyone - including editors (especially editors!) - you don't know what the heck you are actually doing.

There is no need to panic however. All you have to do is now go learn about povs. :)
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Actually it's not a matter of taste so much as a big glaring sign telling everyone - including editors (especially editors!) - you don't know what the heck you are actually doing.

There is no need to panic however. All you have to do is now go learn about povs. :)
I know what PoVs are, I was just incredibly indecisive while writing, haha. I went for a mix of the two as described here:

I move back and forth between the two pretty liberally from one moment to the next. I kind of mix it up.


Example:

-------------------------------------------------------

I hope I get some good feedback, he thought to himself.

Some of the posters in the writing thread were helpful and experienced--he'd seen them answer questions many times and had learned a lot of great stuff from their advice. But would those particular posters be online today? Would they even see his post?

Weekends were kind of tough to predict. Sometimes the thread would drop all the way off the front page for long stretches. The other writers might be busy doing fun, weekend sorts of things: partying on their yachts, guzzling buckets full of whiskey, smoking ganja...

Oh Christ! Stop being a negative Nancy. They'll come through. And even if you have to wait a few days, it's no big deal.

"Yeah," he muttered as he scrolled to the bottom of the page and navigated back to the gaming forum. "It'll work out fine. Need to quit worrying so much about everything."

-----------------------------------

Basically you can weave them together. It's not necessarily one or the other. They each have a different feel and it's a rhythm thing. Or at least that's the way I approach it, and a lot of writers I admire approach it the same way.

Endless stretches of italicized thoughts can get overwhelming. Frank Herbert uses the tactic very heavily in Dune, but most writers I've seen tend to lean on the italicized approach mostly as a way to get some character voice in there and make thoughts feel more immediate.When you italicize and use the character voice directly, the thoughts become actions, and they feel like they're happening in real time, which can make the internal parts of a story feel more lively. But if you want to get really deep and explore complicated concepts, normal narrative is more flexible.

Sometimes I will open a long section of internal monologue with some italicized thoughts as a way of centering the reader firmly inside the character's head, and then I'll slip into normal narrative.Other times I'll use italicized thoughts at the end of a long internal section to pull the reader back into a real-time feeling.

Also took out "thought to himself" from the italicized thoughts. I still don't have any for the other minor PoV chars, though, which might look weird to an editor. I'm much more conflicted about this than I should be.
 

zulux21

Member
time to do something I should do more often but haven't.

I printed off a chapter of my old draft in order to fix my new version. I wrote the new version without looking at the old version because it changed so much, but the new version is missing the suspense and surprise the old version had so now I need to figure out how to bring more of that back as I don't like the current version and this stupid part is still stalling me out. either way in the next 12 days I need to outline book 3 so I can pretend to do it for nano.
 
About...I dunno, four months ago I sent a partial manuscript to a publishing house. Got a reply back asking for the whole thing and off it went. Three months later I gave a little nudge asking how things were going and was told I'd have an answer before October started. Well, it's closer to November 1st than October 1st now and I haven't heard anything.

Wondering when I can nudge again. If they tell me no, which is most likely, it at least takes this manuscript out of limbo so I can send it to another publishing house or agent.
 

Ashes

Banned
About...I dunno, four months ago I sent a partial manuscript to a publishing house. Got a reply back asking for the whole thing and off it went. Three months later I gave a little nudge asking how things were going and was told I'd have an answer before October started. Well, it's closer to November 1st than October 1st now and I haven't heard anything.

Wondering when I can nudge again. If they tell me no, which is most likely, it at least takes this manuscript out of limbo so I can send it to another publishing house or agent.

Ask in December I guess....
 
About...I dunno, four months ago I sent a partial manuscript to a publishing house. Got a reply back asking for the whole thing and off it went. Three months later I gave a little nudge asking how things were going and was told I'd have an answer before October started. Well, it's closer to November 1st than October 1st now and I haven't heard anything.

Wondering when I can nudge again. If they tell me no, which is most likely, it at least takes this manuscript out of limbo so I can send it to another publishing house or agent.

You're allowed to send it to more than one agent / house at a time. As a matter of fact, it's expected that you do.
 

Ashes

Banned
You're allowed to send it to more than one agent / house at a time. As a matter of fact, it's expected that you do.

With the initial three chapters pitch, I'd agree. But in this case it's past the original screening. They've got the full manuscript.
Bad form to send out two of those.

I guess what you could do, to seem more professional is to send out a partial manuscript and if that other publisher then sends a request for the full story, you can say: apologies, but it's being read by another publishing house at the moment.
I mean thank them for considering you, and be sure to keep them in mind if you get rejected by the initial publishing house.
 
You're allowed to send it to more than one agent / house at a time. As a matter of fact, it's expected that you do.
Well, I've shopped this book around a lot. This house was sort of the "last effort" one, and then I found another that could take it. I wanted to strike this off the list first just to save myself some annoyance later, but I'm getting hit with that now.

Like, I was ready to self publish this one when this house wanted to see more. Only reason I found another is I'm sending out my second book to anyone/everyone and it came up as a good fit.

Ask in December I guess....
Hmm. That long huh? Well, I've waited this long. I swear this wait is going to give me an ulcer or something though. I'm also kinda figuring that the delay can't be good. Like, if they were excited they'd have finished and contacted me by now :[
 
With the initial three chapters pitch, I'd agree. But in this case it's past the original screening. They've got the full manuscript.
Bad form to send out two of those.

I guess what you could do, to seem more professional is to send out a partial manuscript and if that other publisher then sends a request for the full story, you can say: apologies, but it's being read by another publishing house at the moment.
I mean thank them for considering you, and be sure to keep them in mind if you get rejected by the initial publishing house.

Unless an agent / house asks for exclusivity, you should be sending your manuscript to as many people as request it. There is no guarantee that they will make an offer of representation / publication, and even if they do, you can decline. At best, you would mention that others are reading your full manuscript, as well. This doesn't make agents shy away, it shows that you are proactive and that your writing shows promise if others are reading your full, as well.

If they specifically ask for exclusivity on a read, there should be a time limit on how long, and a brief period, too. Their time is important, but so is yours. You don't want to be sitting around on a manuscript request for a month or more when you could be shopping it around to others. And from what I've heard, asking for exclusivity on a manuscript request is rare. They expect you to send out your work.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Are posting query letters frowned upon? I really want someone to rip this apart and tell me what to take out. Tell me it sucks if it sucks. Also, sorry for posting so much in here recently.

I am seeking representation for my YA novel, Gather Against Fate: Twin Suns, complete at 193,682 words. Twin Suns is a tale that tells of a brother who became the devil himself. An apocalyptic prophecy told of the end of the age, where the wicked King Garrick Kas, ruler of the north, would lead the world to ruin. Before the prophecy could come to pass, one Xanthas Perilon, an elite member of the Knights of the Kingdom of Aerys and a hero to his people, journeyed north to defeat him. King Garrick was slain, but Xanthas did not return – instead, he himself become possessed by a wicked power, and he destroyed the neighboring nation of Rhodea within a single night. The Desolation of Rhodea shook the very foundations of the world, and Xanthas declared himself The Sun King, the ruler of the north. For ten years after, he remained silent, biding his time at the frozen roof of the world. A decade later, his younger brother, Kalan, the Sun Blessed prince of Aerys, sets off on a seemingly routine knightly mission – only to find himself haunted by dark specters of the north in his dreams, along with visions of the brother he thought he had lost. As the Sun King bids him to come north, hinting that there is a reason for his actions, Kalan encounters a woman from a strange land – a white haired warrior that seems intrinsically linked to The Sun King and what machinations he may be planning.

The world that Kalan inhabits is equal parts familiar and alien, fantasy and sci-fi, real and surreal. The prince’s story is one full of knights and nobles who live in a world not unlike our own – young people attend universities, professional sports are popular, and technology rules the world, while wyverns prowl the swamps of the continent, mysterious, highly advanced ruins dot the land, and a select few retain the power to naturally channel a power known as magic. Kalan, heir to the throne of Aerys and a natural magic user, feels no particular love for his fate, and as he journeys across the continent, he slowly comes to learn that there is much more to his world than meets the eye. A history spanning thousands of years and a being that controls time lurk behind the shadows, and prophecies that came true with pinpoint accuracy for millennia suddenly cease to pass. At the center of it all is the prince’s brother, Xanthas, a man who seems to transcend the boundaries of fate itself. With his flaming sword in hand, the former hero reappears and sends the world spiraling down a path that very may well lead to the end of the world, and it is up to Kalan to unravel the mystery behind his drastic transformation.

Twin Suns is the first in a line of chapters that tell a larger story transcending the boundaries of time itself. The questions of free will, fate, finding one’s place in a world that rejects them, and the meaning of birth are examined through generations of characters who find that the same problems repeat throughout history, time and again. Even the long and bloody wars of righteous liberation and the pockets of hope that good men achieve eventually fade from the minds of the people, and history repeats itself once again. Those who have oppress those who do not, and the elite rule over the common man. As Kalan discovers the hidden truths of the past, he must find an answer – does he succumb to the relentless realization that humans will always be terribly flawed, or does he embrace the concept of love, accepting humanity for what it is despite their flaws? Does he forgive his brother and seek his redemption, or does he instead seek justice for the dark crimes that he has committed?

This story was written with older teenagers in mind, who are likewise trying to find their place in the world. The blend between the real and the fantastical is meant to allow the reader to relate more strongly to the characters, while still being drawn in by a fantastical setting – as well as to help make their own lives feel a bit more exciting by proxy.

Thank you for your time!

Sincerely,
The second two paragraphs I am very iffy on. How much do I go into "explanation" mode - as in, explaining my intentions as an author rather than describing the story itself? Should I leave out the fact that it's the first in a series (which I hear is a big turn off for some publishers)? I also wanted to get across the fact that this book puts a large emphasis on world building while still keeping the main story linear and grounded, but I don't want to sound overly ambitious.
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
Getting back into the writing groove over the past week or so. Turns out that a trip to the emergency room is awesome for motivation

Know that feeling. I remember breaking my arm awhile back and thinking "Man i never knew skin was so elastic, what a great detail to use one or two times later down the road" Hope everything goes all okay.
 
It's fine to post here and request feedback, yes. Just to warn you, this is a huge red flag:

Getting a novel of that length published is super difficult for a new writer (something like half that length would be much much easier). Getting a YA novel of that length published... never say never, but that's a super tough sell. In all honesty I suspect most agents won't even get to the part where you talk about your story. :(

Cyan is right. For a debut novelist in the YA Genre, you would probably be best topping out somewhere between 70-80k. Most agents would look at your word count and toss the query, assuming you haven't done much research into the proper word length in your genre of choice.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Welp, guess I'm not advertising it as YA fantasy then, haha.
 
Are posting query letters frowned upon? I really want someone to rip this apart and tell me what to take out. Tell me it sucks if it sucks. Also, sorry for posting so much in here recently.
I did the same a few months ago, so no. It's totally fine.

Red flag #1: Starting with what agents call "housekeeping." The "i'm seeking representation" is obvious because otherwise you wouldn't be emailing anyone anything, and the genre/word count can go at the bottom. Unless an agent asks for that stuff first--and some do--keep it for later. Entice readers RIGHT AWAY.

Red flag #2: it looks huge. With standard TNR 12pt font, it's over a page. Keep it under a page.

Red flag #3 193,682. I got told to fuck off for having a 130k first novel. "Way too big for a debut author." Seriously got told that, or pretty much told that. What was said was actually way ruder. Currently having problems with my own YA novel and that's 83k. Some agents do specify word count on YA, and it's usually around 70k or 75k.

Just skimming this now, it's awfully dense and wordy with lots of proper nouns of people I don't know or understand. The paragraphs are really thick too. Makes them kind of daunting.

Cut the history lessons and focus on your protagonist. What's he doing and why's he doing it. I chopped a bunch out and am left with this, or what I found to be the interesting bits:

A brother becomes the devil himself. An apocalyptic prophecy comes true.

A decade after the apocalypse, Kalan the Sun Blessed prince of Aerys sets off on a routine knightly mission only to find himself haunted by dark specters of the north and visions of the brother he thought he had lost. As the Sun King bids him to come north, Kalan encounters a woman from a strange land – a white haired warrior that seems intrinsically linked to The Sun King and what machinations he may be planning.

At the center of it all is the prince’s brother, Xanthas, a man who seems to transcend the boundaries of fate itself. With his flaming sword in hand, the former hero reappears and sends the world spiraling down a path that very may well lead to the end of the world, and it is up to Kalan to unravel the mystery behind his drastic transformation.

As Kalan discovers the hidden truths of the past, he must find an answer – does he succumb to the relentless realization that humans will always be terribly flawed, or does he embrace the concept of love, accepting humanity for what it is despite their flaws? Does he forgive his brother and seek his redemption, or does he instead seek justice for the dark crimes that he has committed?

[Insert novel] is a high-fantasy affair with a flair of modern technology in its world building. It measures 190k words or whatever the word count was.

Thank you for your time!

Sincerely,

I'd cut the questions at the end though.

if you haven't visited Query Shark before, hit this blog up. Tons of amazing advice on what to do and what not to do. Plus, a bunch of examples, though most are of what not to do :p

http://queryshark.blogspot.com/

It should be noted that my opinions come with a few heaping grains of salt since I've never landed an agent. I've gotten a few to bite though, but none have ever taken the bait fully. YMMV.
 
Well, I've shopped this book around a lot. This house was sort of the "last effort" one, and then I found another that could take it. I wanted to strike this off the list first just to save myself some annoyance later, but I'm getting hit with that now.

Like, I was ready to self publish this one when this house wanted to see more. Only reason I found another is I'm sending out my second book to anyone/everyone and it came up as a good fit.

As I stated above, you should send it out, unless the house that requested your full manuscript specifically asked for exclusivity.

I've participated in a few Q&A sessions with literary agents, and they've mentioned that a request for an exclusive is rare. They also say you can decline the request for an exclusive or tell them that others are already reading your manuscript. If they were really interested in your manuscript, they'll bite regardless.

If they are one of your top agencies / houses that you would die to work with and they request an exclusive, you might bend a bit as a show of good will. But even then, you should specify the exclusive time period. One to two weeks is preferable, and never more than a month.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I got my first rejection letter! How exciting!

Also, thanks, Conker, for the advice, and especially for that site. I changed up my letter quite a bit ("becomes the devil himself" was an especially cringeworthy line that I came up with after hearing you have to instantly grab their attention. I came to the conclusion that 90's-esque edginess is not the right way to do so).
 
I got my first rejection letter! How exciting!

Also, thanks, Conker, for the advice, and especially for that site. I changed up my letter quite a bit ("becomes the devil himself" was an especially cringeworthy line that I came up with after hearing you have to instantly grab their attention. I came to the conclusion that 90's-esque edginess is not the right way to do so).
Query Shark is a godsend for this kind of thing. Every time I have to write one I go there and read a bunch of examples.

Best of luck to you.
As I stated above, you should send it out, unless the house that requested your full manuscript specifically asked for exclusivity.

I've participated in a few Q&A sessions with literary agents, and they've mentioned that a request for an exclusive is rare. They also say you can decline the request for an exclusive or tell them that others are already reading your manuscript. If they were really interested in your manuscript, they'll bite regardless.

If they are one of your top agencies / houses that you would die to work with and they request an exclusive, you might bend a bit as a show of good will. But even then, you should specify the exclusive time period. One to two weeks is preferable, and never more than a month.
I'll send it out on Sunday with my next batch for my first book then. Worst that happens is more rejections.
 

Breakage

Member
Yo guys, I was going to make a new thread, but figured this would be the best place to seek advice.

I'd like to know how I can become a more descriptive writer. Whether it's a poem or a book of fiction, I'm frequently in awe of the way good writers can make something come to life with their vivid descriptions. It invariably leaves me wondering how do they do it. How do writers develop a mind that enables them to find the right adjectives, metaphors and similes to describe an object or situation that just seems perfectly apt?

For example, when I try to describe my room, I can only think of the most obvious and simplistic descriptions for the items and atmosphere. Yet the writers I have come across have an ability to really describe things in a way that makes them vivid and memorable.
I want to know how writers form this skill, so I was wondering if anyone has any tips. Is there special kind of thought process I should adopt so that when I look at an object it will be easier for me to form a description that goes beyond the obivous? Is there anything in particular I should be reading or techniques I should be exploring?

Any suggestions welcome, thanks.
 
So Predators and Editors is down until they find someone new to run it. They removed EVERYTHING.

Which sucks cuz I was just about to start the C portion of their database. Barely scratched the fucking surface.

I've used agenty query and writer's market. Anyone know of some others I can dive into?
 
Yo guys, I was going to make a new thread, but figured this would be the best place to seek advice.

I'd like to know how I can become a more descriptive writer. Whether it's a poem or a book of fiction, I'm frequently in awe of the way good writers can make something come to life with their vivid descriptions. It invariably leaves me wondering how do they do it. How do writers develop a mind that enables them to find the right adjectives, metaphors and similes to describe an object or situation that just seems perfectly apt?

For example, when I try to describe my room, I can only think of the most obvious and simplistic descriptions for the items and atmosphere. Yet the writers I have come across have an ability to really describe things in a way that makes them vivid and memorable.
I want to know how writers form this skill, so I was wondering if anyone has any tips. Is there special kind of thought process I should adopt so that when I look at an object it will be easier for me to form a description that goes beyond the obivous? Is there anything in particular I should be reading or techniques I should be exploring?

Any suggestions welcome, thanks.

I recommend taking note of the writers whose work you admire. What's different about what they describe? Are they utilizing more than one of the five senses? Approach your descriptions as if you were describing a character. Are the colors faded? Is the material soft or rough? What sounds do you hear?

Have fun with it. Have access to a thesaurus nearby so you can switch up the words you use to keep your descriptions fresh.
 

Breakage

Member
I recommend taking note of the writers whose work you admire. What's different about what they describe? Are they utilizing more than one of the five senses? Approach your descriptions as if you were describing a character. Are the colors faded? Is the material soft or rough? What sounds do you hear?

Have fun with it. Have access to a thesaurus nearby so you can switch up the words you use to keep your descriptions fresh.

Thanks for the suggestions.
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
Yo guys, I was going to make a new thread, but figured this would be the best place to seek advice.

I'd like to know how I can become a more descriptive writer. Whether it's a poem or a book of fiction, I'm frequently in awe of the way good writers can make something come to life with their vivid descriptions. It invariably leaves me wondering how do they do it. How do writers develop a mind that enables them to find the right adjectives, metaphors and similes to describe an object or situation that just seems perfectly apt?

For example, when I try to describe my room, I can only think of the most obvious and simplistic descriptions for the items and atmosphere. Yet the writers I have come across have an ability to really describe things in a way that makes them vivid and memorable.
I want to know how writers form this skill, so I was wondering if anyone has any tips. Is there special kind of thought process I should adopt so that when I look at an object it will be easier for me to form a description that goes beyond the obivous? Is there anything in particular I should be reading or techniques I should be exploring?

Any suggestions welcome, thanks.

So you're probably going to get this advice a lot with whatever question you have regarding writing, and that is to just write. Writing is a skill and if you want to get better at it then just gotta sit down and write for awhile. If you want to get better at describing something then write descriptions. Get a notebook, sit in a park, and just start describing cars, or people, or the feeling of the sun, or the cold, or the shadow the tree is making as it streaks across the blacktop of the road and its branches creep into the window of the white colonial across from your bench. Descriptions used to be my bane(still kind of are) but ultimately what I did to get better at them was to just practice them. At work, during my break, I would sit down and just start writing descriptions about the customers I've seen that day on the back of a receipt. Similarly your first descriptions are going to be kind of bland and boring, and that's all right. You want to write like fifty different descriptions and then sit down and find the three or four you really like and ask yourself why you like them so much, then try to build off that. Experiment with excruciating details and with start minimalistic stuff like his "shirt was apple red." Just practice, that's the important part to getting better at anything.
 

Breakage

Member
So you're probably going to get this advice a lot with whatever question you have regarding writing, and that is to just write. Writing is a skill and if you want to get better at it then just gotta sit down and write for awhile. If you want to get better at describing something then write descriptions. Get a notebook, sit in a park, and just start describing cars, or people, or the feeling of the sun, or the cold, or the shadow the tree is making as it streaks across the blacktop of the road and its branches creep into the window of the white colonial across from your bench. Descriptions used to be my bane(still kind of are) but ultimately what I did to get better at them was to just practice them. At work, during my break, I would sit down and just start writing descriptions about the customers I've seen that day on the back of a receipt. Similarly your first descriptions are going to be kind of bland and boring, and that's all right. You want to write like fifty different descriptions and then sit down and find the three or four you really like and ask yourself why you like them so much, then try to build off that. Experiment with excruciating details and with start minimalistic stuff like his "shirt was apple red." Just practice, that's the important part to getting better at anything.


Thanks for the advice. My problem is that I find it difficult to start writing. I was supposed to start a few months ago, but I've been locked in a mode where I keep searching the web to find the "right" writing techniques to begin a short story. Everytime I get to point where I am ready to write, I convince myself that I should do another sweep of the web to find some more writing advice which allows me to put off writing something.

It sounds crazy, but the feeling that whatever I write will be utter rubbish is so strong that it is enough to put me off writing and instead opt to search the web for tips and advice. That's the same process I always seem to go thru despite the fact I know no one's going to see what I write. I feel like I won't be able to write well until I've read about how to well. I guess I just have to ignore the feeling to keep delaying the writing process and go for it.

By the way, do you have any tips for picking up new adjectives? When I've tried to look at an object and describe it in my head I can only come up with the most obvious adjectives.
 
By the way, do you have any tips for picking up new adjectives? When I've tried to look at an object and describe it in my head I can only come up with the most obvious adjectives.
Read more. Read all kinds of books, from fiction to nonfiction. Hell, read books you might outright hate going in.

It's the best place to pick up things like this. Plus, there's alwasy something to learn if you approach a novel as "how did the author achieve his/her goals" and not just to have a fun time, though there's still stuff to learn if you do that too.
 
So Predators and Editors is down until they find someone new to run it. They removed EVERYTHING.

Which sucks cuz I was just about to start the C portion of their database. Barely scratched the fucking surface.

I've used agenty query and writer's market. Anyone know of some others I can dive into?

Well, that's no good.
If you're a fantasy/sci-fi/horror writer, Ralan has a pretty extensive list. It isn't as big as P&E, but it's kept pretty up to date.
Other than that, Writer Beware can obviously steer you away from unsavory houses. Those are the ones off the top of my head.

EDIT: OH, and if you don't mind perusing Absolute Write's publishers forum (and their publisher warnings likewise), that's another place to look.
 

Hop

That girl in the bunny hat
So, long time listener, first time caller.

I'm trying to get started with freelance writing (with the long-term goal of working towards larger ghostwriting projects in between my own works). I'm not even terribly concerned with what subjects right now—naturally, I'd rather veer towards something I already have some experience or expertise in, but I'm a beggar right now so I won't be much of a chooser. Just need some portfolio and income.

However, even with that acknowledgment, I can't find the way to get things started. I started a profile on Upwork only to be told there's "no demand" for my skillset. (Though, after hearing horror stories from other freelancers, that rejection might be for the better.) I don't know of any other marketplaces for this stuff, and even so, I can imagine it's not an approach I'd want to take long-term. Finding publications to submit to and material to send them is a bit of a crapshoot.

Long story short: I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know anywhere to get help to figure out what I'm doing.
 
So, long time listener, first time caller.

I'm trying to get started with freelance writing (with the long-term goal of working towards larger ghostwriting projects in between my own works). I'm not even terribly concerned with what subjects right now—naturally, I'd rather veer towards something I already have some experience or expertise in, but I'm a beggar right now so I won't be much of a chooser. Just need some portfolio and income.

However, even with that acknowledgment, I can't find the way to get things started. I started a profile on Upwork only to be told there's "no demand" for my skillset. (Though, after hearing horror stories from other freelancers, that rejection might be for the better.) I don't know of any other marketplaces for this stuff, and even so, I can imagine it's not an approach I'd want to take long-term. Finding publications to submit to and material to send them is a bit of a crapshoot.

Long story short: I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know anywhere to get help to figure out what I'm doing.

Since I'm still here, hi! That post above you is my own first post in the thread.

Anyway, I picked up Textbroker.com from this thread here on GAF. It's legit. The pay isn't amazing, and it'd take a lot of work to make big numbers, but you can make some money and have material for a portfolio, I suppose (some clients will have you waive copyright, but I am not certain that disallows a portfolio entry). I didn't have much luck with Upwork in the past, either.
That thread does have some other options, if you're interested. Hope that helps.
 
Well, that's no good.
If you're a fantasy/sci-fi/horror writer, Ralan has a pretty extensive list. It isn't as big as P&E, but it's kept pretty up to date.
Other than that, Writer Beware can obviously steer you away from unsavory houses. Those are the ones off the top of my head.

EDIT: OH, and if you don't mind perusing Absolute Write's publishers forum (and their publisher warnings likewise), that's another place to look.
Thanks man! Never heard of Relan, but I'm in fantasy and horror, so that'll be smashing.

Also wondering if I can nab P&E on the Wayback Machine and use it. Hadn't thought of that until just now :X
 

Hop

That girl in the bunny hat
Since I'm still here, hi! That post above you is my own first post in the thread.

Anyway, I picked up Textbroker.com from this thread here on GAF. It's legit. The pay isn't amazing, and it'd take a lot of work to make big numbers, but you can make some money and have material for a portfolio, I suppose (some clients will have you waive copyright, but I am not certain that disallows a portfolio entry). I didn't have much luck with Upwork in the past, either.
That thread does have some other options, if you're interested. Hope that helps.

Adding Textbroker to my list. (Honestly, I may poke around more stuff from that thread just to get ideas. I'll take small and reliable just to keep productive.)

I didn't have any luck with Upwork either. Namely, they took one look at my profile and were like "yeah, we don't want you." Which was kinda insulting, but it came on the heels of me finding this post so maybe it's all for the best.
 

Breakage

Member
Read more. Read all kinds of books, from fiction to nonfiction. Hell, read books you might outright hate going in.

It's the best place to pick up things like this. Plus, there's alwasy something to learn if you approach a novel as "how did the author achieve his/her goals" and not just to have a fun time, though there's still stuff to learn if you do that too.

Thanks for the tip man. I guess there's no quick and easy way to go about it.
 
Well, that's no good.
If you're a fantasy/sci-fi/horror writer, Ralan has a pretty extensive list. It isn't as big as P&E, but it's kept pretty up to date.
Other than that, Writer Beware can obviously steer you away from unsavory houses. Those are the ones off the top of my head.

EDIT: OH, and if you don't mind perusing Absolute Write's publishers forum (and their publisher warnings likewise), that's another place to look.
For Ralan, I'm not seeing a section for agents. Maybe I"m just being obtuse or the color scheme for this site is really that awful, but I'm drawin' a blank.
 
I'm starting over on a project about 25k words into it after realizing I've completely strayed away from the main character's motivations. I've known something was wrong for a month or so, but I've just been struggling through it until today when I sat down and it hit me why I've been dreading writing.

Remember, kids: character first, plot second. Character motivation is damn important.
 
For Ralan, I'm not seeing a section for agents. Maybe I"m just being obtuse or the color scheme for this site is really that awful, but I'm drawin' a blank.

I think there isn't one. The closest thing is their writing links page, where they lost a couple of places to find them (like AgentQuery and the like).

Also, you and Hop are welcome from earlier.
 
So, long time listener, first time caller.

I'm trying to get started with freelance writing (with the long-term goal of working towards larger ghostwriting projects in between my own works). I'm not even terribly concerned with what subjects right now—naturally, I'd rather veer towards something I already have some experience or expertise in, but I'm a beggar right now so I won't be much of a chooser. Just need some portfolio and income.

However, even with that acknowledgment, I can't find the way to get things started. I started a profile on Upwork only to be told there's "no demand" for my skillset. (Though, after hearing horror stories from other freelancers, that rejection might be for the better.) I don't know of any other marketplaces for this stuff, and even so, I can imagine it's not an approach I'd want to take long-term. Finding publications to submit to and material to send them is a bit of a crapshoot.

Long story short: I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know anywhere to get help to figure out what I'm doing.

I'm... confused. I haven't used UpWork, but I did Freelance writing via Elance before they merged in. The way it at least worked on Elance was you could make a profile and then answer job requests (get hired or not) and move on. Who is telling you that there's no demand/need for someone with your skillset? Do they have an approval process or something?

Anyway, assuming you can get to a point where you can actually answer adverts for freelance jobs you just have to be persistent, have some solid writing samples on your profile, and look for the good jobs amongst the smaller, less reputable and craptastic jobs that'll drain you of the will to go on.

If you'd like some more concrete advice, or for me to take a look at your UpWork Profile I'd be happy to help in PM.
 

Hop

That girl in the bunny hat
I'm... confused. I haven't used UpWork, but I did Freelance writing via Elance before they merged in. The way it at least worked on Elance was you could make a profile and then answer job requests (get hired or not) and move on. Who is telling you that there's no demand/need for someone with your skillset? Do they have an approval process or something?

Upwork is saying there's no demand. (Or, rather, there's too many people with the same skillset. So, supply problem, not demand.) And apparently, yes! There is an approval process now. And I failed it.
 
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